+MrFish Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them. Steve Jobs So is it any wonder that nearly all games mentioned would be ports? Why not just playing them on the platform they were designed for? Does it really make sense to bind capacities "just" for an A8 port, while mentioning a game means the user is already familiar with that title? Steve Jobs never did pee diddly squat in the gaming industry, that I know about. For starters, it seems odd for you to make this statement after porting 3 games with Fandal. I don't think anybody would complain about "a great new game they've never seen before, designed around the specific attributes of the Atari 8-bit computers". A lot of these games mentioned are really just pointing to genres that people have an interest in, or games that have some special quality (or qualities) that they really like. Part of the idea of porting is: why reinvent the wheel. someone has come up with a good, successful game formula in creating a game; So, why not bring that over to the machine I love? Another part of it is to see how well the Atari can render a particular game that has been done on some other systems. An Atari version is going to be unique simply because it was made to run on the Atari; And in a lot of ways, that's why people want it: because they like how games are done on the Atari, not some other system. Edited April 2, 2018 by MrFish 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Make Trax (Crush Roller)Kick (Kickman)Omega Race - My only reason to want a Vic-20.Space Invaders (2600)PhoenixGalagaTronDiscs of TronMarble MadnessPaperboyTurboMappyKlaxRally-XPac-Mania1943 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+slx Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) I am not (completely) obsessed with Lunar Lander; I just enjoyed playing it a lot in the arcade. For me, the fun in Lunar Lander arcade very much reflects the Nolan Bushnell maxim: "Easy to learn, hard to master." Always liked that game in the Arcades although it was very rare in Europe. It should be possible to adapt the Asteroids emulator written by Norbert Kehrer to run Lunar Lander as they have similar hardware AFAIK. Unfortunately Norbert has not published sources. Apart from Lunar Lander my personal wish list would include: Phoenix Crush, Crumble & Chomp using the Atari's graphics capabilities and a faster language Raid on Bungeling Bay A two-player splitscreen driving game that doesn't stop all the time like Rally Speedway. There is some truth in the sentiment that in 2018 everything can be played in emulation but ports could give games a more Atari look by utilizing the Atari's graphical strengths and are about "what can be done", even if a lot of that is "what could have been done". Edited April 2, 2018 by slx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Omega Race - My only reason to want a Vic-20. A neatly done version on the Vic. I think it could easily be bested on A8 in hi-res, 320 x 192 mode. Space Invaders (2600) Same here, hi-res, 320 x 192 would be great, not to mention having POKEY sound available. Failing that, I'd settle for a phaeron port of the 2600 version. 1943 I've thought about this and 1942 quite a bit. I've done a few mockups for 1942 using P/M graphics in double-width for some of the aircraft, and some tests for how the terrain might work out. I prefer 1943's way of allowing your ship to take some hits and the cool music. I think 1943 gets a little heavy on the graphics at times. So, things would have to be cut down a little in order to make it possible. Maybe some hybrid of 1942 and 1943 would work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Phoenix There is some truth in the sentiment that in 2018 everything can be played in emulation but ports could give games a more Atari look by utilizing the Atari's graphical strengths and are about "what can be done", even if a lot of that is "what could have been done". Isn't there already a Phoenix for the Atari ? I seem to remember playing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 A two-player splitscreen driving game that doesn't stop all the time like Rally Speedway. I like this idea. I like Rally Speedway 1 player mode, but not really 2 player mode. The main thing is that the view would have to be zoomed out, otherwise you'd not be able to see enough of the road and terrain when the screen gets cut in half. The current view has just the right balance of what can be seen and what can't. So, cutting things down to about half the current size would probably compensate for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 For starters, it seems odd for you to make this statement after porting 3 games with Fandal. Somehow I knew that this would come in return (4 ports BTW)... To explain my position: * A8 gaming is in my case in a concurrency situation to "modern" gaming. I mentioned it before, but this means for me that games based on "principle" are much more interesting than titles based on "presentation". * All users here likely have a PC to use the forum. So they can use f.e. "MAME" - I don't know where the benefit is in porting a classic arcade game to the A8, while the original is just "a mouse click" away. (Not that I'm not able to appreciate the efforts put into e.g. "Bosconian", "Pang" etc. These are nice additions to the platform, but they didn't keep my attention very long, as the full featured versions are just nearby.) * I know that people "like" ports from other systems. That is evident when inspecting the announcement posts, but do they really play these games? I also contributed to "Nightshade" but TBH haven't had that much fun in actually playing that title. Maybe this is a wild guess, but I don't think that all these iso-adventures have a very big user base playing and finishing these ported games. They look nice, but are also quite hard and after all these years with in-deep video let's-plays, walkthroughs and maps, there is nothing left to discover. * That said, I try to contribute when asked for assistance, but I always try make a port richer and/or better playable than the original: E-Type benefits a lot from the first person view. Stunt Car Racer is the smoothest 8-bit version - but seeing how calm the "High-Score-Café" is, I even doubt that SCR is played that much... ...maybe other, more current racers just make more fun for the targeted audience? So what titles I do prefer? I'm quite proud of "dye" since this game shows what for me the "retro-experience" is. The game matches very well the spec of the A8, more colours won't help to improve that game and a higher resolution only little. The principle is fresh and the way I used it is unmatched on any other platform. "Ridiculous Reality" from matosimi is another title going in that direction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eegad Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Personally I still wish someone would make Phoenix for the XL/XE. I kinda remember that someone as working on it a few years back, but never saw anything come of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocelo Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I really quality scrolling shoot-em-up like Raiden.One of my first "shmup" experiences I really enjoyed as a kid was a two-pack of Shoot-em-ups for the Atari ST that contained "Xenon" and "Sidewinder". The digitized explosion sounds in Sidewinder in particular were a joy for me.I collect shmups and I like the ones available on the Atari 8-bit like Super Cobra and River Raid. It'd be nice to have something that pushed the limits of the system a bit more and had fantastic explosions/debris, powerups and bosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) Somehow I knew that this would come in return (4 ports BTW)... Yeah, I actually forgot the 4th one that I even mentioned myself in this thread already. So, that's: 1. Perplexity 2. E-Type 3. Spycat 4. Stun Car Racer All nicely done too. Somehow I knew that this would come in return (4 ports BTW)... To explain my position: * A8 gaming is in my case in a concurrency situation to "modern" gaming. I mentioned it before, but this means for me that games based on "principle" are much more interesting than titles based on "presentation". * All users here likely have a PC to use the forum. So they can use f.e. "MAME" - I don't know where the benefit is in porting a classic arcade game to the A8, while the original is just "a mouse click" away. (Not that I'm not able to appreciate the efforts put into e.g. "Bosconian", "Pang" etc. These are nice additions to the platform, but they didn't keep my attention very long, as the full featured versions are just nearby.) * I know that people "like" ports from other systems. That is evident when inspecting the announcement posts, but do they really play these games? I also contributed to "Nightshade" but TBH haven't had that much fun in actually playing that title. Maybe this is a wild guess, but I don't think that all these iso-adventures have a very big user base playing and finishing these ported games. They look nice, but are also quite hard and after all these years with in-deep video let's-plays, walkthroughs and maps, there is nothing left to discover. * That said, I try to contribute when asked for assistance, but I always try make a port richer and/or better playable than the original: E-Type benefits a lot from the first person view. Stunt Car Racer is the smoothest 8-bit version - but seeing how calm the "High-Score-Café" is, I even doubt that SCR is played that much... ...maybe other, more current racers just make more fun for the targeted audience? So what titles I do prefer? I'm quite proud of "dye" since this game shows what for me the "retro-experience" is. The game matches very well the spec of the A8, more colours won't help to improve that game and a higher resolution only little. The principle is fresh and the way I used it is unmatched on any other platform. "Ridiculous Reality" from matosimi is another title going in that direction. Maybe I should clarify something about this thread first. I know it may have sounded like I was asking about video games specifically, but all I said was "games". What I mean by that is any game; it doesn't have to currently exist as a video game on some system. It could be a board game, card game (although I'd venture that the majority of the most popular ones have been done already), sport game, mind game; they're all games. So, I don't really care. If someone is interested in seeing it done on the Atari and it's something they already know that they like playing, then I'm interested in hearing about it. I didn't start this thread to get some chatter going about games that don't exist on the system: I'm genuinely interested in finding out what people would like to play on their Ataris. So, having said all that, to assume that this thread was meant to be specifically about ports is wrong; that just happens to be what most people are suggesting. And maybe that in itself tells you what people are interested in. The fact that people may not be interested in some specific ports that have been done really means nothing. If you make a game that nobody specifically said they wanted or liked, there has to be some likelihood that they won't be too interested in it. This is why I specifically asked people not to talk about novelty games (games that would just be interesting to see) or "me too" ports, which are all about "we have that game on our system too". As you already know, I think Dye is a fantastic game, for fun, presentation, and originality (I also enjoyed ECKN, which is apparently based on some existing game). So, I'm all for original games and those that take advantage of the Atari's specific strengths. But how do you ask people to tell you what original games, that have never been created before, they'd like to see? I suppose the next closest thing you could do is talk game types in general. But, as I said, I think we already doing that in the process of talking about specific games. Edited April 2, 2018 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozar Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Steve Jobs never did pee diddly squat in the gaming industry, that I know about. He did work for Atari and had Woz finish Breakout for him and Atari. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Would be valid for you games that doesn't exist, but should? x) I would like to play things like: (and maybe program some of them) - a "Kick Off 2" type of game (sensible soccer.. what's that? ) - "Star Raiders Galaxies" (a modern sequel to the original, with good space combats) - "Montezuma's Revenge 2" (with a better title probably.. and some ideas from Spelunky) - a "Wonderboy" type of game (the arcade one, or the ones in the "Monsterland" series) - "Exed Exes XL" (an Atari version of the arcade one) - a good arcade racer, with a good frame rate and with hills (the engine/game that I have in mind doesn't have a good model) - a game in the "Galaga" family - "BallBlazer 2" with 4 player support, 2 per team (maybe connecting 2 Atari computers) - a "Super Mario" like game - a good pinball game also.. - a good first person game (only raycasting), with colorful graphics and over 30fps, with enemies, shooting but also puzzles.. maybe capturing some of the action that Encounter had.. + lots of others 2d games: Rally X, a good 2d golf like game, a PacMan like game (with new mazes, ghosts and abilities), a "Lunar's Lander" type of game (but with elements of "Gravity Crash" in the ps3).. Most of these are because I believe that a very good version can be done in the A8, with good graphics and very playable. I support Irgendwer in trying to do "new" things, but I understand that the probability of that happening is lower than straight ports, if we are doing this just for hobby.. Maybe a compromise and ask for "new levels" in the "not so straight" ports? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) 1) Galaga - Galaga Try this. It is surprisingly good and very playable. Edited April 3, 2018 by adam242 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 SNIP - a good first person game (only raycasting), with colorful graphics and over 30fps, with enemies, shooting but also puzzles.. maybe capturing some of the action that Encounter had.. Hmm - I think someone started that, it was Project M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) He did work for Atari and had Woz finish Breakout for him and Atari. :-) Exactly... pee diddly squat... [Edit] Was it Breakout or Super Breakout? I think it was the latter. Edited April 3, 2018 by MrFish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Exactly... pee diddly squat... [Edit] Was it Breakout or Super Breakout? I think it was the latter. Believe it was Breakout - he did a super simplified 74LS only version (hardware only - not a game running on a CPU). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Believe it was Breakout - he did a super simplified 74LS only version (hardware only - not a game running on a CPU). Yeah, it looks like it was. He just worked on it, though: it was Bushnell's and some other guy's idea/concept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark loves Stella Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Personally I still wish someone would make Phoenix for the XL/XE. I kinda remember that someone as working on it a few years back, but never saw anything come of it. It looks like there isn't much movement on this Phoenix port. But, these are some nice images if it ever comes to fruition. https://ataritools.fr.gd/1-_-PHOENIX-PROJECT.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Yeah, it looks like it was. He just worked on it, though: it was Bushnell's and some other guy's idea/concept. So - typical of Apple from the start. Take someone else's idea, either steal it or do some finish work, claim it as own Has worked the past 35+ years, so good on them I suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 So - typical of Apple from the start. Take someone else's idea, either steal it or do some finish work, claim it as own Has worked the past 35+ years, so good on them I suppose. Exactly: he found out early that he could use other's genius to make money. He just had to push what they created. He used Woz's ideas first and then Xerox's. So, I guess he was talking about himself when he said, "A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them", because he didn't know what he wanted to sell until someone showed it to him. I wouldn't call it exactly stealing though. The people at PARC wanted him to do something with their ideas, because Xerox hadn't the understanding of how to handle what PARC had created. Some of the people from PARC even joined Apple to help make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1. Secret of Monkey Island I (and II) 2. Outrun 3. Double Dragon 4. Prince of Persia 5. California Games 6. Ski or Die (I loved the Snowboard halfpipe) 7. Atari 2600 game Barnstorming (I know there is some kind of a port, but I would love to see a 1:1 port) 8. Atari 2600 game Private Eye (I might be the only person in the world that actually like this game, but I think it is great!) 9. Atari 2600 game Klax (there are several attempts to do some kind of port, but again I would love to see a 1:1 port) 10. Test Drive 11. The Adams Family (Loved this game on my Atari ST!) 12. Xenon I and II 13. Crack'ed (I actually loved this game on my Atari ST and 7800) 14. A new Chess game with an higher ELO rating and bigger opening-book. 15. Microprose Soccer (or another game like that) ... loved this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 3. Spycat That honour belongs to miker. "Lunar Jetman" is the missing one. I've got that this thread is not only about ports, but like experienced, ports are normally the feedback when asking for ideas. And the question is still open for me: Are the players here are really keen on ports? Or do they just take what's offered? (And yes, ports based on existing 6502 code are normally a bit easier to develop than going the full route development cycle.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Here's the games I really really wanted on my Atari BITD, I might feel differently about these games today: 1. Adventure Construction Set 2. Bard's Tale 3. Ultima V 4. Skyfox 5. Marble Madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Philsan Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Someone mentioned to improve Pitfall II graphics. Ghostbuster's players graphics really need to be improved, especially poor single color players (VCS players are better!). BTW, Summer Games graphics, especially flag selection, need to be improved too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 See also this thread which is only 10 months old: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/266422-the-missing-game-what-you-like-to-see/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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