Preferred version of 5200 4-port vs 2-port, MB revisions?

[Chak]

I need some advice from the community here.

 

For reasons that are irrelevant I am in possession of a handful of 5200 consoles. I'm planning on keeping the best 3 or 4 for myself/family/friends and selling the rest. (Although the way work has been who knows how long cleaning/refurbishing will take....) My question is what would be the best version/versions to keep?

 

I'm guessing a power-modded and video modded 4-port would be the best option, but you guys would be the experts. Are there any motherboard revisions worth mentioning? Personally, I don't really care too much about scratched cases and the like, I'm more concerned with the electronics.

 

Thanks.

[zylon]

A modded 4-port is good, so is a 2-port with BIOS swap from a 4-port. Avoid any of the "last ditch effort" consoles. Most were 4-ports. These were made of whatever parts and pieces Atari Corp. had left. Good indicator of one of these is the little IC near power switch. It's soldered on those 4-port models. Any 4-port with a * in the serial number is a good catch as well. They were revised to be able to use the 2600 adaptor unit.

FWIW- I use a regular plain-jane 4-port system myself.

[BassGuitari]

The 2-port is probably the better system overall due to its standard RF and power arrangement and VCS Adapter compatibility. If you want to mod it for composite output, or some other form of A/V output, it should be easier on a 2-port since doing so to a 4-port will also require a power mod.

 

Plus, with two fewer controller jacks to fill out the space on the front of the console, the 2-port version of the 5200 even just looks sleeker and even more monolithic and imposing.

 

Fortunately, I have both, so I don't have to choose.

[SoundGammon]

2 four-port games come to mind: Tennis & M.U.L.E.

[Tempest]

Asteroids and Super breakout also supported 4 players

[Deteacher]

A modded 4-port is good, so is a 2-port with BIOS swap from a 4-port. Avoid any of the "last ditch effort" consoles. Most were 4-ports. These were made of whatever parts and pieces Atari Corp. had left. Good indicator of one of these is the little IC near power switch. It's soldered on those 4-port models. Any 4-port with a * in the serial number is a good catch as well. They were revised to be able to use the 2600 adaptor unit.

FWIW- I use a regular plain-jane 4-port system myself.

 

I need a little education here as I'm new to the 5200 "brotherhood." What's the difference between the 2-port and the 4-port BIOS chips? My working console is a 2 port and my non-working console is a 4-port. Should I swap out the bios chip or just leave well enough alone?

[+Ryan Witmer]

 

I need a little education here as I'm new to the 5200 "brotherhood." What's the difference between the 2-port and the 4-port BIOS chips? My working console is a 2 port and my non-working console is a 4-port. Should I swap out the bios chip or just leave well enough alone?

 

There are a few games, 2 or 3 I think, that don't work with the 2 port BIOS. The only one I know for certain is Pitfall, I think Mountain King might be one of the others.

 

I'm intensely curious to know exactly what it is in the 2 port BIOS that messes those games up. I know the 2 port BIOS added code in anticipation of PAL support and there's a location in the cartridge it checks to determine if it's a PAL cart, so it could be that the incompatible games just happen to be identified as PAL carts and won't boot.

 

I'm very paranoid that my own games will stumble into whatever hamstrung Pitfall and friends, and since I don't have a 2 port 5200 to test on, I'll never be sure.

[+DrVenkman]

I have two 4-port machines. I need to do power and composite video mods on at least one of them one weekend this summer. RF is for the birds. Fortunately, mods like this are pretty straight forward for anyone with a bit a soldering skill and the tools. I just haven't gotten around to doing it.

[Chak]

I started this and got way side tracked at work. I want to thank everybody for the advice. It will hopefully be brought to fruition over the next couple of months. I noticed that console5.com sells a 4-port BIOS chip. I'll be placing an order for the power mod stuff, should I just bite the bullet and order the BIOS chip for the 2 port console?

 

I still have to do a bunch of controller refurbs, as well. It will be the Summer of Atari for me, apparently....

[zylon]

 

I need a little education here as I'm new to the 5200 "brotherhood." What's the difference between the 2-port and the 4-port BIOS chips? My working console is a 2 port and my non-working console is a 4-port. Should I swap out the bios chip or just leave well enough alone?

 

Since you have a "dead" 4-port, I'd swap the BIOS and open up the whole library. The cart slot pathways were changed a bit in the 2-port redesign to allow for the 2600 adaptor. This change also saw the BIOS changed to run with the new configuration. Proof of the differences can be seen in the mod work a regular 4-port needs to be able to run the 2600 adaptor.

As for your "dead" system, I'd check on replacing the little IC near the power switch on board. The 5200 has two sides: logic and video. A black screen indicates that the video side is working, but the logic side is not. That little IC can cause this and only costs pennies.

 

4013BE

Edited July 2, 2018 by zylon

[Deteacher]

 

Since you have a "dead" 4-port, I'd swap the BIOS and open up the whole library. The cart slot pathways were changed a bit in the 2-port redesign to allow for the 2600 adaptor. This change also saw the BIOS changed to run with the new configuration. Proof of the differences can be seen in the mod work a regular 4-port needs to be able to run the 2600 adaptor.

As for your "dead" system, I'd check on replacing the little IC near the power switch on board. The 5200 has two sides: logic and video. A black screen indicates that the video side is working, but the logic side is not. That little IC can cause this and only costs pennies.

 

4013BE

Thank you for the information! Much appreciated! Of all the chips I swapped out on the dead system, that's one I did not. I'll grab one and try it out.

[zylon]

Thank you for the information! Much appreciated! Of all the chips I swapped out on the dead system, that's one I did not. I'll grab one and try it out.

 

That's such a common fail that I keep a few in my parts kit. Another thing that happens is a cracked solder joint below the socket for same IC. Being that it's near one of the locating pins, being a tad overzealous when prying the board up and off of it can cause this. Reflow is the usual fix in that case.

[+Mitch]

The BIOS change has nothing to do with the 4port > 2port change. Early 2port systems had the original BIOS chip not the revised BIOS. You lose nothing by replacing a revised BIOS with an original BIOS.

All three games that don't work on with the revised BIOS have been patched and can be loaded on a multi-cart if you have one and don't want to open the 5200.

 

Mitch

[Deteacher]

The BIOS change has nothing to do with the 4port > 2port change. Early 2port systems had the original BIOS chip not the revised BIOS. You lose nothing by replacing a revised BIOS with an original BIOS.

All three games that don't work on with the revised BIOS have been patched and can be loaded on a multi-cart if you have one and don't want to open the 5200.

 

Mitch

 

The 2-port model I have has the 4-port top (so it looks like the two middle ports used to be there but were ripped out.) My guess is that they used up some of these 4-port tops in the early 2-port models, just to get rid of them. Would that be correct? Again, forgive my ignorance. I'm just learning about this system. I'm going to add my serial number to the pinned thread (I'll feel more "official" once I'm added to the list.)

[+Mitch]

I think all 5200s have the 4port top, the holes for the other two ports are covered by the 2 port front bezel. Probably cheaper that way.

Have fun with your 5200.

 

Mitch

[David Alexander]

I never had a 2 port but I am partial to the 4 port, I own 3 and 1 is AV Modded and that's the one I use regularly.

Their are a some games that are more than 2 player. Homebrew Ratcher is up to 3 player. Of course MULE is 4 players.

[bszarek001]

Sorry for the late reply, but I wanted to ask the question here, as its the most relevant topic. I have a two port and want to update the BIOS to the four port. Console5, based on convos I had with the owner, said that their chips were defective and are in the process of sourcing better chips.

 

That said, can I replace the 2 port BIOS chip with any standard, working 4 port BIOS chip? Just want to be sure before I take the time to pull out the current chip. Thanks

[leech]

I just found what I believe is a 4port system on ebay and the VCS adapter, so I would have to do some wiring to get that to work?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I just found what I believe is a 4port system on ebay and the VCS adapter, so I would have to do some wiring to get that to work?

Is there a picture of the serial number for the console posted on the auction? If so...look for an asterisk. If there is one then it was factory modified to be compatible with the VCS adapter. If not, then that still doesn't mean yo have to mod it as it could have been done already by the previous owner.

 

Point being you can't assume it hasn't been so you really will have to open up the console to see if the modifications for the VCS have already been done.

[leech]

Guess I'll find out when I get it and put the Sophia in.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I'm pretty sure the sophia will still break the VCS adapter's ability to work though. I'd love to be told differently, but I thought all the current AV mods for the 5200 again intercept the video signals from the GTIA directly in some way and prevent them from going back through to the RF which, in turn is part of what kills off the VCS adapter's ability to work?

[bszarek001]

I believe thats accurate. I would add that if were doing mods to these systems, the likelihood is that we also have the 2600 as well, and probably hooked up. Nice to have for prosperity, but would you really use it?

[Lynxpro]

 

There are a few games, 2 or 3 I think, that don't work with the 2 port BIOS. The only one I know for certain is Pitfall, I think Mountain King might be one of the others.

 

I'm intensely curious to know exactly what it is in the 2 port BIOS that messes those games up. I know the 2 port BIOS added code in anticipation of PAL support and there's a location in the cartridge it checks to determine if it's a PAL cart, so it could be that the incompatible games just happen to be identified as PAL carts and won't boot.

 

I'm very paranoid that my own games will stumble into whatever hamstrung Pitfall and friends, and since I don't have a 2 port 5200 to test on, I'll never be sure.

 

It would be interesting to find out if the added PAL support caused the incompatibility with Pitfall (?) and Mountain King (?). Perhaps it might be best if someone in the community could hack those games to work on unmodded 2-port systems. EDIT: Mitch stated the games have been modded since...guess the ROMs are out there...

 

It also surprises me that this highly creative community hasn't yet figured out a way to restore 4-joystick port access for the 2-port units. It would most likely require some sort of hardware mod, of course.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Lynxpro

[Lynxpro]

Asteroids and Super breakout also supported 4 players

 

If a Y Splitter Cable were used on each port, wouldn't Super Breakout support 8-players like the A8 original did?

[+-^CrossBow^-]

 

It would be interesting to find out if the added PAL support caused the incompatibility with Pitfall (?) and Mountain King (?). Perhaps it might be best if someone in the community could hack those games to work on unmodded 2-port systems. EDIT: Mitch stated the games have been modded since...guess the ROMs are out there...

 

It also surprises me that this highly creative community hasn't yet figured out a way to restore 4-joystick port access for the 2-port units. It would most likely require some sort of hardware mod, of course.

 

Yes in order to restore 4 port support back to the 2-port model you would have to wire in new multiplexer chips and the ports themselves of course. From what I can gather in looking at the 2 port vs 4 port boards, it would seem that Atari basically removed the original port 2 and 3 off the system board and then changed the bios to treat port 4 as port 2? Because I don't believe anything was changed in how port 4 is being addressed between the two physically?