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How do I make a copy of a non-dos floppy image?


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#1 rcgldr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 9:58 AM

I want to be able to format (if not part of the copy operation) and copy a floppy image. I actually only need the first 16 sectors. I've tried sparta dos, dos 2.5, and mydos 3.0, but I don't seem to be getting anywhere, as the disk copy programs seem to assume these are DOS floppies. I need to be able to copy the first 16 sectors from one floppy drive to the other.

 



#2 Nezgar OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 10:06 AM

Most dos disk copiers try to 'optimize' the copy by only copying parts of a disk allocated to files, and don't do well with non-dos disks. With spartados, use 'SCOPY.COM'

My preferred is MyCopyR. The sector copier on any happy 1050 utility disk 1 also works with non happy drives for non-copy protected disks.

Someone posted a disk image full of raw sector copiers at some point recently I'll see if I can find it, unless someone else finds it before me.

#3 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 10:58 AM

Well,

 

simply use an old sector copy, where you can type in start + end sectors, e.g.:

- Sector Copier by Craig Chamberlain

  http://www.atarionli...Copier (v2).xex

- Sectorcopy 2 by Craig Chamberlain 

   http://www.atarionli...ectorcopy 2.xex

  (start sector should be $001, end sector $010 then)

 

or a modified/enhanced DOS 2 version, e.g.:

- DOS 2.5f, DOS 2.6f, DOS 2.8f, etc. (enhanced DOS 2.0 versions with sectorcopy and other tools):

  http://www.atarionli...Dos II 2.5F.atr

  (option "P", copy sectors)

  http://www.atarionli...DOS II 2.6f.atr

  (option "P", copy sectors)

  http://www.atarionli...DOS II 2.8F.atr

- Smart DOS 6.1D (again, enhanced DOS 2.0 version with sectorcopy, DD-support, etc.)

  http://www.atarionli...S 6.1d (v1).atr

  (option "K" kopy sectors)

 

If these 16 sectors do contain a single stage boot program, you may also try to convert it into a DOS-loadable COM/XEX file with Supercopy (Supcopy.COM on Utils01.atr). Steps:

 

- load SupCOPY.COM from the DOS 2.5 disk (with Start or fire button)

- when done, simply choose 1) load, 2) bootdisk and insert your bootdisk, then press Return

- when done change disks (insert a DOS 2 formatted disk!) and choose 2) Save and 3) as .EXE file and type in the 8.3 filename you wish to use. The boot program should now be a COM/XEX file that can be loaded from DOS or a Gamedos.

 

Supercopy always uses a fixed Start-adress and Run adress ($1F00-xxxx, RUN 1F3F), the max. length of a program for conversion is 32kbytes and it must be single stage with one data segment and one run adress at the end (no init adress; no Run adress at the beginning/before the data segment). And errm, the program was written in Germany (by Peter Jakubek from Irata in Berlin, afaik) and uses german language here and there, but it is quite easy to use. Good luck!

 

P.S.: The ATR image with various Sectorcopy programs was uploaded by me a while ago, but afaik, it does not contain (m)any programs where one can choose start and ending sector, most programs always try to copy the whole diskette, no matter if it is DOS 2.x, MyDOS, SpartaDOS, DOS 3.0, DOS 4.0 or non-DOS format.   http://atariage.com/...s/#entry3662912

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Edited by CharlieChaplin, Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:07 AM.

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#4 rcgldr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:07 AM

Looks like I only need to copy sectors 1 to 3, but as double density. I can't find SCOPY.COM on my versions of spartados.

 

If I download a utility on my PC, how do I get it transferred to the 130XE?

 

I found a sector copy utility by Dave Small, but it appears to be a single density copy.


Edited by rcgldr, Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:08 AM.


#5 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:13 AM

Looks like I only need to copy sectors 1 to 3, but as double density. I can't find SCOPY.COM on my versions of spartados.

 

If I download a utility on my PC, how do I get it transferred to the 130XE?

 

I found a sector copy utility by Dave Small, but it appears to be a single density copy.

 

Errrm, sectors 1-3 are usually the boot-sectors and have to be single density, otherwise they would not work on the A8 and a standard A8 floppy drive (exception: a CP/M diskette, where the bootsectors are also double density; all other disks must have the boot sectors in single density)...

 

I could ask you to upload your utility here (so I can take a look what it is), but then you already have to know how to copy it and transfer it from/to ATR and thus would not have to ask the question here...   ;-)

 

Okay, if you already have the A8 utility diskette on the PC, you could use SIO2PC or a similar program like AspeQT / RespeQT to transfer it to the Atari floppy drive, but therefore you will require the SIO2PC (alternatively SIO2PC-USB) hardware. You could also use an old PC 5,25" (360k) drive and Ataridsk or WriteATR to transfer the disk image to the A8, but its quite unlikely you still have a floppy controller in your PC that supports 5,25" drives (or a 360k PC floppy). There are several other options I guess, but most of them do require a certain (selfmade) cable or other extra hardware to transfer an A8 disk image from the PC to the A8 floppy drive...


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:21 AM.


#6 rcgldr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:23 AM

The floppy is an Indus bootable floppy that makes it "double" compatible. I probably used an ATR8000 to create it. I've got the ramcharger for the Indus, and CP/M, so I'll see if there's a way to use that to copy the disk later on.



#7 Nezgar OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 11:36 AM

Even though a DD disk formats sectors 1-3 physically as 256 sectors, Atari drives will only ever read or write the 1st 128 bytes of those sectors. I recall a thorough web page out there that detailed how to re-create the 3 full 256 byte sectors to make working CP/M boot disks... Would be neat to get your US Doubler emulation utility out there for others to try!



#8 xrbrevin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 12:26 PM

one method is to load your sector copy program (e.g. mycopyr  :)  ) into your atari via an SIO2PC device and a drive emulator software such as aspeqt

you can then use your atari disk drive not only to copy disks, but also to create real bootable disks from ATR files and conversely to create ATRs from real disks



#9 rcgldr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 12:48 PM

CP/M is booting on my Indus, and I have ZSID debugger on the CP/M floppy, and backup of the source code on a PC. I may be able to figure out how to create a small program to read 3 sectors, pause to switch floppies, and then write 3 sectors. The other option is to get the ATR8000 from storage, which means the ATR8000, a 8 inch floppy drive, and a 5.25 inch floppy drive that I've slowed down to be Atari compatible. The rpm program shows speed as 288 rpm, I previously thought it was 300 rpm.



#10 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 2:55 PM

Hello rcgldr

 

Start MyDOS (version 4.55 beta 5 is the latest one).  Select "J" (duplicate disk), enter "X,Y(A-B)" where X is the source drive, Y the destination drive, A is the first sector to be copied and B is the last one to be copied.  "/N" should be added if you do not want the destination drive to be formatted.

 

Example:

 

1,2/N(50,400) copies sectors 50 through 400 from D1: to D2: without formatting D2:

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

PS not sure, but I seem to remember that 1,2(50-400)/N does the same.



#11 Nezgar OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 2:59 PM

All Atari based methods will not copy the 2nd half of sectors 1,2,3 on a DD disk, which OP noted those sectors contain 256 bytes each natively and is needed to boot the US Doubler emulator code into an indus GT...

Worst case, the disk could be flux-level imaged by someone who has a KryoFlux or SuperCopy pro. For example farb, active in the Atari software preservation thread.

Edited by Nezgar, Fri Jun 8, 2018 2:59 PM.


#12 JR> OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 3:15 PM

It is apparently possible to write those sectors in DD from the atari.  The Indus CP/M Tool can fix those sectors on the cpm disk.  Perhaps the author could help out with this too.

 

http://trub.atari8.i...ef=indus_cpm_en


Edited by JR>, Fri Jun 8, 2018 3:16 PM.


#13 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 3:25 PM

It is apparently possible to write those sectors in DD from the atari.  The Indus CP/M Tool can fix those sectors on the cpm disk.  Perhaps the author could help out with this too.

 

http://trub.atari8.i...ef=indus_cpm_en

Definitely possible, as this is how I created my CP/M disks.



#14 JR> OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 4:18 PM

Definitely possible, as this is how I created my CP/M disks.

I wish that program had been around when I made mine.  I had to do it the hard way.  I did try the cpm tool recently and it works great.



#15 sanny ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 4:23 PM

If the floppy is MFM encoded, and contains only 256-byte sectors, it could be copied with ImageDisk (http://www.classiccm...d/img/index.htm).

You need a (40-track) 5.25" floppy drive attached to the PC. If the floppy also contains 128-byte sectors (FM encoded), not many PC floppy controllers do support this.

 

regards,

chris



#16 russg OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 5:52 PM

Here's a utility to copy any to all sectors to sectors on a disk or to a file.

Has two programs.  RW13 is mine RWTEST is also here.

The programs are LOAD type from DOS.

On a SmartDOS 6.1 .ATR image.

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Edited by russg, Fri Jun 8, 2018 5:54 PM.


#17 ijor OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 5:57 PM

It's not too difficult to code a program for the Happy, or any similar enhancement (or for the Super Archiver for that matter), that would copy those sectors. I'm afraid I have no time now for implementing this.

 

But please, do somebody make a low level image with a SCP or Kryoflux so that we can have a digital copy.

 

 



#18 rcgldr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 8, 2018 10:55 PM

I'm able to make copies of the Indus doubler now, using the CP/M "zsid" debugger, and the "init" program. The "init" program reads the boot sectors, then prompts the user to insert a destination floppy, then optionally formats the destination floppy and writes the boot sectors. I use "zsid init.com" to load "init" into memory, then switch to the Indus doubler floppy, then start "init" running from the debugger, which then reads in the "doubler" boot sectors (instead of the cp/m boot sectors). I post another thread specific to the Indus doubler.



#19 lemiel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 9, 2018 1:54 AM

You could copy these three sectors to another destination so they are readable by standard drive and could be transferem easier to the community.
Maybe someone will analyze and fix need to use these 256b boot sectors.

#20 russg OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:18 AM

Looks like I only need to copy sectors 1 to 3, but as double density. I can't find SCOPY.COM on my versions of spartados.

 

If I download a utility on my PC, how do I get it transferred to the 130XE?

 

I found a sector copy utility by Dave Small, but it appears to be a single density copy.

get a SIO2PC interface from Steve Tucker site.

 

Then you may need a PC RS232 serial to USB cable to connect your PC USB port to the Atari SIO.

 

https://www.atarimax...tion/index.html  

 

Tucker has Atari SIO to PC serial port, and a SIO to PC USB port.

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Edited by russg, Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:31 AM.


#21 rcgldr OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:32 AM

I plan to buy the USB version of the SIO2PC interface. I assume I need the APE for Windows software as well. I downloaded a Z80 assembler tool set that should be the same as the one I used before on my ATR8000, which may not even run anymore and I can only find the 8 inch floppy drives that i used with the ATR8000. Fortunately, I already have ICDS on an Indus CP/M floppy, which can transfer files between CP/M and Atari floppies, and I also have the 6502 assembler on an Atari DOS floppy. So the only tool missing was the Z80 assembler stuff.


Edited by rcgldr, Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:33 AM.


#22 lemiel OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:29 AM

Or https://lotharek.pl/...tail.php?id=157or https://lotharek.pl/...tail.php?id=108 and use RespeQT.

#23 xrbrevin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:36 AM

 

+1 :thumbsup: for this arrangement :)



#24 JR> OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:48 AM

+2 you don't have to pay for high speed writes with RespeQT and the Atarimax USB version doesn't work with RespeQT.



#25 lemiel OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:53 AM

I have both, Atarimax and homemade FTDI based version... Both are good toys.






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