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What was the Jaguar truly capable of?


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#1 NeoGeo64 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:23 PM

If a highly talented and skilled team of programmers (such as the top coders at SEGA back in the mid 90s) who were intimately familiar with the Jaguar's hardware did some hardcore assembly programming with great resource utilization developed a game on the Jaguar using Tom and Jerry, instead of the M68K, what kind of 3D graphics would have been seen?



#2 Clint Thompson OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:25 PM

If a highly talented and skilled team of programmers (such as the top coders at SEGA back in the mid 90s) who were intimately familiar with the Jaguar's hardware did some hardcore assembly programming with great resource utilization developed a game on the Jaguar using Tom and Jerry, instead of the M68K, what kind of 3D graphics would have been seen?

 

Missile Command 3D



#3 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:27 PM

Obviously the original poster has never seen or heard Club Drive.  it drops framerates like it's HOT.  Makes me forget all about GPU in main!

 

UPDATE:  Seriously, we don't know.  The best we'll know is when indie devs come out with future games.  Some outside devs at the time showed Atari their graphic engines with higher def 2D graphics.  Some homebrewers played around with tech demos focusing on the GPU instead of 68k.  Trouble is the hardware has quirks that need to be dealt with as well as rediscovering what each part can fully accomplish.



#4 Flojomojo ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:46 PM

OMG must we do this?

OK, the Atari Jaguar was pure potential, more power than the Sega Saturn and bigger than the Sony Playstation. Its 64 bits of pure power would have dominated the market if only the Tramiels had spent a little bit more money on marketing. Then everyone would know how much better Fight For Life was than Virtua Fighter or Battle Arena Toshinden. Then PHEAR would have come out on the Jaguar and compelled everyone and their mom to buy the system, Minter would have made Defender 2000 run at 120hz, and the VR helmet for Missile Command 3D would have come out and revolutionized the way we play games. RAYMAN would have been a Jag exclusive, smashing all the competitors, and Super Nintendo players would have begged Atari to port Donkey Kong Country to the one true 64 bit powerhouse monster console to rule them all. We would have seen Laura Cruz Tomb Raider and maybe a crossover with Iron Soldier and Ultra Vortek. Sega would have put the cancelled Saturn Eternal Champions on the system and Trevor McFur would have gotten Com-Lynx support with the Atari Lynx, which would have kicked GameBoy's black and white ass. Then 3DO would have put all its great titles on the Jag CD and everyone would still be talking about Plumbers Don't Wear Ties and Vid Grid. Man I wish we had a 2018 update to Vid Grid, that game never got the love it deserved, along with Club Drive. That's the original and best driving game!

"Not a troll" <--- the lady doth protest too much, methinks

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#5 Stage_1_Boss OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:02 PM

I'm guessing whatever they could've created wouldn't have been any better than what we were seeing in 3D space on PC at the time. I forget when MechWarrior 2 came out, but that was freakin' awesome. It's not like the Jaguar had alien technology in it.

#6 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:16 PM

What was the Jaguar truly capable of?

 

Drama.



#7 Zerosquare OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:21 PM

We really, really need that "What if..." subforum.



#8 sd32 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:26 PM

If a highly talented and skilled team of programmers (such as the top coders at SEGA back in the mid 90s) who were intimately familiar with the Jaguar's hardware did some hardcore assembly programming with great resource utilization developed a game on the Jaguar using Tom and Jerry, instead of the M68K, what kind of 3D graphics would have been seen?

 

What kind of 3D graphics?, probably about the same what we saw, but more optimized for smoother framerates. More interesting is that if a team of the top Sega coders developed for the Jag, then stuff like Fight For Life and Checkered Flag would have had some decent gameplay on them, like Virtual Fighter and Virtua Racing on 32X. So probably a bit smoother framerates and some good gameplay would be the biggest gains, and in my oponion the most important ones.


Edited by sd32, Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:27 PM.


#9 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:48 PM

What was the Jaguar truly capable of?
 
Drama.


I was going to say "fumes", but drama works too.

#10 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:59 PM

I was going to say "fumes", but drama works too.

 

Or rapidly aging nuts who appear to be okay with waiting multiple lifetimes for that HOLY POWA GRAIL from multiple 'saviors' - none of whom have delivered anything approaching that - and yet they hilariously continue to dutifully seek out and endlessly praise the next 'savior'     :lol:

 

Better start investing in cryogenics you folks!  



#11 pacman000 ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:46 PM

The ST has a few simple 3D games. The Jaguar has a 68k like the ST, so it should be able to do similar games. The Jaguar also has some coprocessors, so a programmer might be able to raise the frame rate, add lighting, or add texture mapping. (Note the "or.")

That's not too far from what the Jaguar got when it was new. Based on what I've read here, Atari's tests, & on other systems' estimated polygon counts, I don't think it can render 3D scenes which are as complex as a PS1 or Saturn game.

#12 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:50 PM

Here's an idea of it's 3D potential.



#13 Gummy Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:03 PM

I don't think it can render 3D scenes which are as complex as a PS1 or Saturn game.

Blasphemy!

VladR says the Jag can run Doom 3.
I doubt the Poopstation or the Shaturn can do that! ;)

#14 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:24 PM

Here's an idea of it's 3D potential.


Mmm, juicy five frames per second action!

#15 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:45 PM

Mmm, juicy five frames per second action!

 

As measured from youtube! Must be 100% accurate :D



#16 phoenixdownita OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:46 PM

If a highly talented and skilled team of programmers (such as the top coders at SEGA back in the mid 90s) who were intimately familiar with the Jaguar's hardware did some hardcore assembly programming with great resource utilization developed a game on the Jaguar using Tom and Jerry, instead of the M68K, what kind of 3D graphics would have been seen?


A highly talented and skilled team of programmers who were intimately familiar with the Jaguar's hardware would probably tell the Jag to go French Connection UK itself as they have better things to do with their talents especially since they are already familiar with the Jag hardware.



#17 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:49 PM

Nonsense. It's obviously -3 frames per second. It actually owes frames

#18 Atlantis OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:44 PM

Its 3D was capable of

AVP
DOOM
Hoverstrike CD
Skyhammer
Battlesphere
IS2

All pushing the hardware. Fact. Low framrate while pushing. Fact.



#19 saucell OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:55 PM

atari was kinda crazy to push the 64 bit 3D thing so hard. imo the 32x seems more capable with 3D than the jag, at least with games released to retail, maybe not some of these custom aftermarket titles.

 

 

i just bought super burnout and man its gorgeous! the jag seems pretty damn good with 2D sprites! devs should have made some sprite heavy 2D games like a streets of rage knock off etc! i wonder what street fighter or mortal kombat would have looked like on the shag!


Edited by saucell, Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:56 PM.


#20 Gummy Bear OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:12 AM

atari was kinda crazy to push the 64 bit 3D thing so hard. imo the 32x seems more capable with 3D than the jag, at least with games released to retail, maybe not some of these custom aftermarket titles.
 
 
i just bought super burnout and man its gorgeous! the jag seems pretty damn good with 2D sprites! devs should have made some sprite heavy 2D games like a streets of rage knock off etc! i wonder what street fighter or mortal kombat would have looked like on the shag!

Oh man... I would love a scrolling beat em up on the Jag.

CJ, make a scrolling beat em up for the Jag. :)

#21 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:25 AM

The problem wasn't so much 3D itself as much as it was texture mapped 3D, both of which struggled with that (the Jaguar less so than the 32X in that regard). Unfortunately, non-texture mapped 3D was dated pretty quickly, on one hand thanks to the 3DO that was already on the market, but especially once the PS1 and Saturn dropped. The flat (32X) or Gouraud (Jaguar) shaded polygons weren't going to cut it then.

As far as what a Mortal Kombat would have looked like on the Jaguar, all you have to do is take a look at Kasumi Ninja. As poor of a game as it is, it at least features the same kind of large digitized sprites, smooth framerate, high color count and the same scrolling floor effect. Had MKII in particular been commissioned, it's possible it may have been one of the better conversions at the time.

#22 JagChris OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:42 AM

Its 3D was capable of

AVP
DOOM
Hoverstrike CD
Skyhammer
Battlesphere
IS2

All pushing the hardware. Fact. Low framrate while pushing. Fact.


Absolute horsecrap. Fact.

The only two that come close in that list is IS and Battle sphere.

And the latter authors claimed they could get more out of it.

#23 CyranoJ OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:49 AM

Absolute horsecrap. Fact.
 

 

Loopback processing enabled.



#24 Gemintronic ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:01 AM

Back in the day I thought that some of the tracks in Club Drive had permanently changed.  I noticed some discoloration on the cart pins and deduced that the Jag had somehow physically affected the contacts to change the content.  Amazing!


  • jhd likes this

#25 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:13 AM

The only two that come close in that list is IS and Battle sphere.

And the latter authors claimed they could get more out of it.


I'm not really sure why people are impressed by Battlesphere. This isn't a slight against the developers, but when I finally got the chance to spend time with it a few years back, I was amazed at how empty the game was. At least with something like Iron Solder 2, I can actually see how the system is being pushed.




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