Why XEGS when the 7800 already existed?

[Swami]

Seems like it would be difficult to market as a game console as it was.

1. Not backward compatible with the 2600, 7800 or 5200.

2. Not named the same way as consoles or XL computers, which may not trigger the concept with the target audiences.

3. Where would these customers go to get the XL system cartridges? Not the department stores where they wanted to sell them.

 

So likely, it mainly interested Atari computer enthusiasts, but who would probably prefer the 65XE or 130XE.

[+sixersfan105]

Yet I want one, so please sell one to me for $100 or less

[phoenixdownita]

Had one, tinkered with it for a little and sold it.

In the end to enjoy an XEGS you have to be treating it like an 800XL ... that is to say mostly like a computer.

I had a MyIDE2 with MyBIOS 4.8 and a keyboard was needed at times, then I added a U1MB with SIDE2 and the keyboard was needed (to enter the setup you needed the HELP key), then I also bought a SIO2SD .... in short the keyboard was almost always on for one reason or another.

Yes, there are cart only games that do not require a keyboard but .... the XEGS can't really bury its computer origins unless you really limit yourself wrt the available library which makes little sense imho.

 

 

[i feel the same way wrt my CD32 in the end I ended up "needing" a mouse and a keyboard lol, and to a lesser extent the FM Towns Marty (some games require a boot floppy, some others have a sort of windowed UI TOS like to use to click for the binary Jp/En), they can't really drop their computer world origins when it is all said and done]

[pacman000]

I wonder if one could use ebay listings to estimate how many XEGSes were sold...

 

There were about 30 million 2600's sold; there are 24885 listings on ebay for Atari 2600...

 

There are 150 listings for Atari XE Games System...

 

If I did the math right, that's about 150-200k XEGSes sold.

 

Of course that could be thrown of by game listings, false positives, etc. I'm assuming those are the same proportionally for the 2600 & the XEGS.

Edited July 19, 2018 by pacman000

[Jinks]

I wonder if one could use ebay listings to estimate how many XEGSes were sold...

 

There were about 30 million 2600's sold; there are 24885 listings on ebay for Atari 2600...

 

There are 150 listings for Atari XE Games System...

 

If I did the math right, that's about 150-200k XEGSes sold.

 

Of course that could be thrown of by game listings, false positives, etc. I'm assuming those are the same proportionally for the 2600 & the XEGS.

Depends if xegs owners are resellers or more 2600 owners...

I dont think that would work..

[+pboland]

 

I don't know. I remember when Curt shared the cartridge sales for the XEGS a while back, the sales of games were typically pretty abysmal. Couple that with the fact that Atari Corp got into the XEGS after the 7800 and 2600 jr and basically wound down software dev first (many games intended for like 1989 release were cancelled) says to me that the sales really weren't that good for it.

 

That may be true, but to be honest, by X-mas season of 1988, NES had a total lock on the market. So sales of all Atari products by that point would have been abysmal.

 

Keep in mind I'm not trying to say the XEGS was some great success in the market as a whole BITD. I'm saying, I think Atari was just trying to make a profit with it (and move some old inventory) and I think it served it's goal. That is how I'm judging success. Basically did Atari make money or loose money on the XEGS line.

 

We know that Jaguar sold about 200,000 units (which is considered a fail) in it's life time and Atari most likely lost money on the platform, but if the XEGS only sold 200,000 (or even 150,000) units total that might have been a success in the eyes of Atari at the time. Remember Atari didn't spend a lot of money developing the XEGS like they did with the Jag. So the threshold to profit would have been much lower for the XEGS.

 

Has anyone shown the total number of game consoles (2600 jr., 7800, XEGS) Atari sold in the time frame of 1986-1989?

[+sixersfan105]

 

That may be true, but to be honest, by X-mas season of 1988, NES had a total lock on the market. So sales of all Atari products by that point would have been abysmal.

 

Keep in mind I'm not trying to say the XEGS was some great success in the market as a whole BITD. I'm saying, I think Atari was just trying to make a profit with it (and move some old inventory) and I think it served it's goal. That is how I'm judging success. Basically did Atari make money or loose money on the XEGS line.

 

We know that Jaguar sold about 200,000 units (which is considered a fail) in it's life time and Atari most likely lost money on the platform, but if the XEGS only sold 200,000 (or even 150,000) units total that might have been a success in the eyes of Atari at the time. Remember Atari didn't spend a lot of money developing the XEGS like they did with the Jag. So the threshold to profit would have been much lower for the XEGS.

 

Has anyone shown the total number of game consoles (2600 jr., 7800, XEGS) Atari sold in the time frame of 1986-1989?

Very good points! And since they sold 100,000 systems in the initial launch window of Christmas 1987, there is a VERY good chance they doubled that (at least) over the rest of its lifespan on the market.

[empsolo]

Very good points! And since they sold 100,000 systems in the initial launch window of Christmas 1987, there is a VERY good chance they doubled that (at least) over the rest of its lifespan on the market.

Or they could have cratered after the initial launch in the same way the Sega Mark III did in Japan.

 

I suspect this is what happened seeing as Atari shifted more advertising money into the 7800 over the XEGS through 88-89.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 19, 2018 by empsolo

[DracIsBack]

 

That may be true, but to be honest, by X-mas season of 1988, NES had a total lock on the market. So sales of all Atari products by that point would have been abysmal.

 

 

If I remember right from Curt's figures, 1987 and 1988 were actually good years for the 7800. 1989 was when the slowdown happened, around the same time as the Genesis and Turbografx 16 arrived.

 

The NES dominated for sure, though the amount at which it dominated varies depending on what figure you look at. My experience is that many pubs report marketshare without necessarily knowing what it means. Ie. the share of systems sold that week is different from the share of total share of installed bases in homes at that time. Often the former gets accidentally reported as the latter.

[kimchipenguin]

The NES didn't dominate every market and was far from being a dominant force in Europe. The 2600 was also much cheaper, I picked up mine with the 32-in-1 cartridge.

 

Looking at how much stuff Atari still had when they liquidated their inventory, they could've easily bundled the XEGS with six games and 12 joysticks

[King Atari]

No idea what it ultimately sold, but if nothing else, it seems that Atari Corp. promoted the XEGS fairly heavily on television during the fall and (especially) winter of 1987. For them, it was positively aggressive! I've got a bunch of old VHS recordings of local, early evening M*A*S*H reruns, and during the ones from the Christmas '87 season, Atari was pretty much all over the place with commercials, especially regarding the XEGS and 7800 (the 2600 Jr. was also accounted for). Furthermore, I've got some Dinosaucers from, IIRC, the fall of '87, and the XEGS was nicely visible during those, too.

 

I mention what shows these spots aired during to give an example of the type of programs Atari was buying ad time for. I mean, we're not talking first run NBC Must See Thursday line-ups or anything like that (unless they aired there too; I dunno), but for at least that relatively short window, Atari was making sure that the parents who would be buying the Christmas presents and the kids who would be wanting them were aware of their, erm, wares. Whether that continued into 1988 or not, I do not know, but in the Atari Corp. era, I can't think of a more visible time, TV commercial-wise, than late-1987.

 

Personally, I'd rather they have thrown all their resources behind the 7800, but then, I really do love the XEGS. Even though the 800 XL is my preferred Atari 8-bit computer, the XEGS is just such an artifact of the 1980s. I mean, is there a more late-80s-lookin' console (yes, I'm calling a console) than the XEGS? I posit that there is not.

Edited July 20, 2018 by King Atari

[BassGuitari]

I mean, is there a more late-80s-lookin' console (yes, I'm calling a console) than the XEGS? I posit that there is not.

 

Why shouldn't you call it a console? That was the whole point of the thing: "It's not a computer, it's a console...........that plays computer games."

 

And no. No, there is not.

[DracIsBack]

No idea what it ultimately sold, but if nothing else, it seems that Atari Corp. promoted the XEGS fairly heavily on television during the fall and (especially) winter of 1987. For them, it was positively aggressive!

 

Yeah. It was front and centre in the posters too. You could tell they wanted it to be their premiere game system and to take off. Based upon the way they ultimately backed out of that and started cancelling games for it but didn't for the other two, it seemed like that totally backfired.

 

Here's a few commercials

 

 

This one would have required more effort to even get the testimonials together!

 

 

 

 

Here, they started to try and squeeze in other Atari systems in, while focusing on the XE still

[mbd30]

 

Why shouldn't you call it a console? That was the whole point of the thing: "It's not a computer, it's a console...........that plays computer games."

 

And no. No, there is not.

 

LJN Video Art might be the most late 80s looking console if it can be considered a console. (If it's a console then it is the worst ever.)

 

[Mister-VCS]

Here's a good article from Atari's Neil Harris from 1987, regarding the 8Bit line and the launch of the XEGS. I don't agree with all the logic, but it's a good read to get some perspective as to why they went that route.

 

--------------

 

We come again to that perpetual question: is Atari intent on killing the

8-bits?

 

One way to answer that would be to give you a tour of our warehouse. If you

could see the number of 8-bit computers and software in inventory, you'd

know we are highly motivated to keep the line going.

 

Regarding the new XE Game System, which on the first glance is a slap in

the face to those who know how powerful the 8-bitters are -- this system is

purely a strategic move on our part. In order to keep the 8-bit line going,

we must do two things:

 

1. Get the computers available in more stores, and

2. Get new software developed for them.

 

Software is not being developed by and large because of problem #1. So

which stores do we go to? The mass merchants, who sold the bulk of the

hundreds of thousands (not, unfortunately, millions) of Atari 8-bit

computers out there, are currently retreating from the computer business.

K-Mart carries NO computers. Ditto for Montgomery Wards. And for J.C.

Penney's.

 

On the other hand, these same stores are doing a fabulous business in game

systems like Nintendo, Sega, and, of course, Atari.

 

The solution, from a business point of view, was to develop a product that

would be appealing to the mass merchants (and also to the public which buys

there), one that also accomplishes the corporate objective of revitalizing

the 8-bit line.

 

So what we have with the XE Game System is essentially a 65XE in disguise.

Internally it contains 64K of RAM, the standard OS and BASIC in ROM, two

joystick ports, SIO port, etc. It is completely compatible with the current

8-bit line, including software.

 

Physically it is more appealing to those who don't want a computer but who

do want to play games. The main console simply has the 4 console keys from

the XE (Start, Select, Option, and Reset), plus the cartridge port and

connectors. The keyboard is a separate unit which plugs into the console.

 

When someone buys the XE Game System, they get the complete package --

console, keyboard, light gun, and 3 programs (including a new version of

Sublogic's Flight Simulator including scenery, all on a single cartridge).

 

We expect stores to do a great business in these. We'll make available the

current library of cartridge software, plus we're converting some disk

programs into cartridge format for this system. As time goes by, we expect

to see dramatic increases in sales for 8-bit software -- hopefully, this

will also include practical applications as well as games. This should in

turn encourage developers to create new titles for the 8-bits.

 

Once things get moving again in the mass merchants, the current supply of

8-bit computers should also get moving through the dealers -- after all,

they make a better value than the game systems, and take up less space.

 

So, those few of you out there who are looking at Atari management as the

evil group who are plotting to quash the 8-bit line, you have it all wrong.

We're trying hard to keep things moving forward. Without the distribution

and the software, no amount of advertising and new hardware development

could work. The XE Game System is our best hope to keep things moving.

--

--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation

UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil

GEnie: NHARRIS/ WELL: neil / BIX: neilharris / Delphi: NEILHARRIS

CIS: 70007,1135 / Atari BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion

 

 

Concur 100%. And the deepest library of any Atari console save for the 2600 to boot.

 

 

Not 100% - they forgot some buttons on the XE- without a keyboard - just try to PAUSE or CONTINUE Moon Patrol without a keyboard...

[Airshack]

After reading all that it seems like it was a good idea to me. A downright clever way to get 8-bit Atari computers into more stores.

 

The composite video output is nice too.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[King Atari]

 

Why shouldn't you call it a console? That was the whole point of the thing: "It's not a computer, it's a console...........that plays computer games."

 

And no. No, there is not.

Actually, when I really think about it, I'm not sure just what exactly to consider it definitively as! It was certainly marketed as a console, but save for the detachable keyboard (to me, the dividing line), it's an Atari 8-bit computer. It straddles that console/computer line in a way the 5200 never did, for obvious reasons.

 

Yeah. It was front and centre in the posters too. You could tell they wanted it to be their premiere game system and to take off. Based upon the way they ultimately backed out of that and started cancelling games for it but didn't for the other two, it seemed like that totally backfired.

 

Here's a few commercials

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr55K3c_7EM

 

This one would have required more effort to even get the testimonials together!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFshLT4JWpY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xxi4xgbmFU

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MsDx57WlVc

 

Here, they started to try and squeeze in other Atari systems in, while focusing on the XE still

That XEGS vs. NES ad is the one I was thinking of. There were two variants of it, though as I recall it, there were just some differences in the voiceover. The idea of taking the NES head-on is a good one, though I think they'd have been better served progressively moving the 7800 in that direction instead of starting the XEGS there, but I get it; the XEGS was the "new kid on the block" (sorta), gotta kick things off with a bang. And you know, for as old as the technology was, when pushed, the XEGS could still hold its own with the 7800 and NES. (The unreleased Commando prototype is a good example.)

Edited July 22, 2018 by King Atari

[DracIsBack]

I was impressed with the XE Commando as well. The Xenophobe prototype is good also. Shame Atari pulled the plug before they were released to manufacturing. There are a few limits in terms of colours on screen and the 1 button controls but all-in-all, quite good efforts.

 

Mark

[empsolo]

Did the XEGS allow for multi-button joystick controls? If so, what games used them?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[+sixersfan105]

Did the XEGS allow for multi-button joystick controls? If so, what games used them?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't believe so, no. Reason being: the game library was the back catalog of all (almost all) Atari 8-bit computers (400/800/XL/XE) and those all supported just the single button joystick. That said, there are certainly keyboard-heavy games, but most of them are on disk (still compatible with a disk drive plugged in, of course).

[empsolo]

The only reason I ask is because it seems that getting third parties to either make games for the XEGS or at least sell computer rights to Atari for the 8 bit line should have been pursued by Atari for the XEGS instead of the 7800.

 

It would have been interesting to see an Atari 8bit version of say Contra or Megaman instead of the godawful IBM ports.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited July 23, 2018 by empsolo

[kiwilove]

OK - it was back in 1986 to 1989 that I was working on the mega project Hawkquest - which was intended to be for disk only - at 360k of data in total, 4 disk sides - I was doing the graphic designs for it - and also looking at the marketing of it. Had I the slightest hint that Atari was looking for new games to include in their lineup - I certainly would have approached them for marketing the game for when it was finished - 1989.

(It was only in 1989 that a demo of it was ready and we were certain it would be finished for sure.)

The only company that showed any real interest - was Red Rat in the UK - who did request a cassette version of it. We said that only 1/2 of the game could be played via cassette - the first game part. There was not the possibility of it running in NTSC.

 

However - this did change in 2016 - in which Paul Lay kindly modified it for me. While there were no 8mbit carts back in 1989 - this version does run on such carts today. I haven't tested it out thoroughly - but I believe it all works? It does run on any A8 computer with a minimum of 48K? You do need a keyboard to play this game.

 

Info and download is here

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/257909-hawkquest-ntsc-8mbit-flashcart-version/

 

Harvey

[spacecadet]

To be honest, some of those ads above made me cringe a bit. Imagine watching those in 1987 or 88. One of them actually uses Missile Command as a selling point (and calls it a "joystick-based game"). This is an arcade game from 7 or 8 years earlier.

 

Almost all of them mention Flight Simulator II, another game that had been out for years already (since 1984). And it's running at literally like 1fps, even in the commercials. I know that's realistic for how the game actually ran at times, but I just don't get how this was meant to sell game consoles. I mean, pick another game as the pack-in or at least show a different area that runs a bit faster.

 

This would be like if MS suddenly announced a new game console in 2018 that's nothing but a stripped down Windows PC and then in the commercials showed it playing games like Half Life 2 and Elite Dangerous, and the latter only runs at 20fps. Who the heck would buy that over literally any other game console?? And why would you buy one over just getting yourself a cheap PC, or using one you probably already have?

 

People weren't dumb. And this system didn't exist in a vacuum.

[King Atari]

To be honest, some of those ads above made me cringe a bit. Imagine watching those in 1987 or 88. One of them actually uses Missile Command as a selling point (and calls it a "joystick-based game"). This is an arcade game from 7 or 8 years earlier.

 

Almost all of them mention Flight Simulator II, another game that had been out for years already (since 1984). And it's running at literally like 1fps, even in the commercials. I know that's realistic for how the game actually ran at times, but I just don't get how this was meant to sell game consoles. I mean, pick another game as the pack-in or at least show a different area that runs a bit faster.

 

Agreed. While Missile Command being built in to the console is neat and worthy of some kind of mention, it just wasn't going to be a valid selling-point in '87. I'd almost rather they have left that bullet-point on the box and focused on more viable games in the commercials. And that Flight Simulator II footage, yikes! Those clips are so painfully slow, they look like they'd do more to dissuade a prospective buyer than anything!

Edited July 23, 2018 by King Atari

[Atarifever]

 

And that Flight Simulator II footage, yikes! Those clips are so painfully slow, they look like they'd do more to dissuade a prospective buyer than anything!

I don't know. Slow down always annoyed me, but I played a lot of games back in the 8 and 16 bit days with slowdown and was just like "oh, this game has slowdown." I don't really remember it being a make-or-break proposition until it came to the Genesis beating the SNES in sports games. I think the fps thing is a modern re-reading of how most kids would have seen things back then.