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Do you support CollectorVision licensing ColecoVision from Cardillo/Coleco


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Poll: Do you support CollectorVision licensing ColecoVision from Cardillo/Coleco Holdings (74 member(s) have cast votes)

Regardless if if you will/will not buy the new CollectorVision system, do you support CollectorVision entering into a licensing agreement with Cardillo/Riverwest/Dormitus/whatever they call themselves these days.

  1. Yes (26 votes [35.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.14%

  2. No (48 votes [64.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.86%

Vote

#76 JBerel ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:07 AM

I dunno how many people are likely to buy this thing. I just know any association to the d-bag claiming any ownership of the brand nixed it from my consideration. That and the infighting between folks trying to bring such niche products to market. In all the descriptions and promotions for this thing, I still fail to see the value-add being brought to this. I don't follow how the supposed FPGA makes it any more authentic than running in emulation, especially when they're doing somersaults to make it do things the original hardware didn't do in addition to supporting other firmware to run other systems, new audio formats, hdmi, etc. etc.  We're talking about 35 year old hardware that could practically run on a modern toaster. Honestly, it just sounds like some Rube Goldberg contraption.



#77 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:26 PM

Fpga is a microchip technology. It can be used to create various things including ram and microprocessors. For small projects fpga might make more sense than other types of microchips or integrated circuits. If done right it can be just as authentic as any coleco vision, whether it has a cartridge port or not. Software emulation like the flashbacks are very different.

Edited by mr_me, Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:27 PM.


#78 JBerel ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:55 PM

Yes, but they're both emulation, and when you are modifying the display, audio, processing output and other thing, most would argue you are not remotely authentic. It's just another box pretending to do something. Hence the Rube Goldberg reference. 



#79 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:04 PM

Yes, but they're both emulation, and when you are modifying the display, audio, processing output and other thing, most would argue you are not remotely authentic. It's just another box pretending to do something. Hence the Rube Goldberg reference. 

 

No one is forcing you to buy it.  There are those who are still using an original ColecoVision system with no mods at all hooked up via RF and I don't have any opinion one way or the other for or against them.  More power to them and I'm just happy they still have their system connected to their TV.

 

Some people have A/V Mods, some have modified the VDP, others have installed new internal power supplies, etc, etc.  Anytime you modify anything beyond the original vanilla 1982 system, it might as well be considered a "Rube Goldberg" device by your definition.  And there isn't anything wrong with that and there isn't anything wrong with this new FPGA system coming out either.

 

CollectorVision have been completely transparent about what the system is and they aren't trying to fool anyone.  There has been no "pretending" at all as you say. So it really just comes down to if you want to buy one or not, and it sounds like you're not going to be a customer and that's 'okay', too.



#80 JBerel ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:12 PM

I'm not bashing the thing. I think it's neat that their making it. I was even interested at one point, but all the changes and "features" made me question the intent, and confused the issue considerably. The whole thing just seems kinda muddy at this point, but to each his own.

#81 Gemintronic OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:22 PM

Yes, but they're both emulation, and when you are modifying the display, audio, processing output and other thing, most would argue you are not remotely authentic. It's just another box pretending to do something. Hence the Rube Goldberg reference. 

 

Physical hardware gates are being changed to physically become the needed circuitry.  It's not emulation.  The most shade you can reasonably cast is that it's a new implementation of the hardware.  Just like there are many original Nintendo versions and Nintendo clones.  Each one can have slightly better or worse compatibility.  

 

Hopefully developers will provide feedback to get the best compatibility out of the box.



#82 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:40 PM

The rube goldberg reference is not accurate. It may be with software emulation. With software emulation you have a very powerfull computer working very hard, pretending to be a much simpler computer. That's not the case with fpga. With fpga it becomes a coleco vision, no more no less. It's true having hdmi output changes things, but no different then if you connected your coleco vision to a digital tv. The collector vision system does support analog composite output, which, if done correctly, should perform the same as a coleco vision.

#83 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:46 PM

The whole thing just seems kinda muddy at this point, but to each his own.

 

I don't think it's muddy at all.  As I said above, CollectorVision have been very clear about what this system is and what it does.  I get the feeling that maybe you just don't quite understand what an FPGA system is but I think the last couple posts above this one should give you some better insight. 



#84 JBerel ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:01 PM

Well, I gotta respectfully disagree with both your points. In my view it's at best hardware emulation, and by accomodating all the added functionality different from the original Colecovision, it sure seems like a convoluted approach to arriving at essentially the same end result as software emulation. Like I said, to each his own. No point arguing the issue like it's LP vs CD or something. Folks are going to have very different opinions.

#85 MrBeefy OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:40 PM

You mean like how the ColecoVision Flashback was on clearance almost immediately after it's initial launch and stores couldn't unload them for twenty bucks and a follow up version of the system was never created because it sold so poorly?
 
The reality is this: The "masses" don't want or need a new $200 ColecoVision compatible system.  Gaming hobbyists, primarily those who are already into and know about the ColecoVision want a new compatible system that you can easily plug right into your HDMI TV.
 
The "masses" want Nintendo, Sega, Atari 2600, aaaand.... that's about it for their retro systems.
 
Online communities like these are what keeps system like ColecoVision, Intellivision, Odyssey 2, Vectrex, Atari Jaguar, etc alive and thriving.  
 
If you think that there is some huge mass market outside of those communities I listed above where hundreds of thousands of casual gamers are sitting on loads of old ColecoVision carts from 1982 just waiting for a new system they can play them on, that's where you're mistaken.


If you notice I said potential.

I don't disagree with a lot of this. However, I would also say that a 100 response poll isn't representative either. Or it shows how few CV fans there are or are on here at AA.

Heck I voted in the poll and I won't get the system but that is because of the price, not because of dumb Cardillo and the license agreement.

Doesn't make it wrong just anecdotal. I don't have any evidence that it would help which is why I said potential. General public knows zilch about CollectorVision. General public has better chance to at least recognize the Coleco name. It might not mean much and they might not care, but it at least was a retro system.

What do we think is the total sold consoles on things like this or the Prometheus?

#86 Osgeld OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:21 PM

 

Physical hardware gates are being changed to physically become the needed circuitry.  It's not emulation.  The most shade you can reasonably cast is that it's a new implementation of the hardware.  Just like there are many original Nintendo versions and Nintendo clones.  Each one can have slightly better or worse compatibility.  

 

Hopefully developers will provide feedback to get the best compatibility out of the box.

 

yes but there's much more in an integrated circuit than the logical arrangement (and this is a huge fact no one points out), its emulation of a circuit period, fact done its just done at a lower level than software emulation 

 

is it better?

 

hell if I know in the end its an arrangement of switches being flipped, one is on a cute little (expensive) FPGA board, the other is on a 4ghz quad core, neither actually replicate the original hardware, but they do pretty good 


Edited by Osgeld, Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:26 PM.


#87 Swami ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:56 PM

I seem to remember a few threads on the FPGA vs emulation debate from before...just type FPGA vs emulation in google...there was a poll on AA, LOL.



#88 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:41 PM

just type FPGA vs emulation in google...there was a poll on AA, LOL.

 

What is interesting about that poll is that it only had 61 people vote.  So to all those people who were making some pointless drama out of how many voters were in this poll, maybe people on AA just simply don't give a shit about polls in general.

 

And for those of you who wanted more data, here's a couple of interesting factoids...

 

I asked the following question to our members of the ColecoVision Fan Facebook page:

Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 12.25.03 AM.png

 

I purposely didn't include any of the Coleco/Cardillo drama because I just wanted to see, in general, how many of our followers were interested in a "ColecoVision Compatible" machine.  Turns out, quite a few were but this is also a biased audience and that's not a bad thing.  Most certainly shows a fair number of people at least have "interest."

 

 

Now I asked the same question on my general retrogaming Facebook page:

Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 12.25.36 AM.png

 

Interesting to note that this poll has reached more people yet fewer have so far responded in it, and quite a few more are less interested. And I know there is quite a bit of crossover of ColecoVision fans between these two pages as I created the RetroGames Fan page after the ColecoVision Fan page and have cross posted between them several times.

 

So what is interesting to me is....

 

 - While only a few people respond to polls in general. (1,400 out of 13,000+ on one poll and 900 out of 22,000+ on the other) it does give you a pretty good idea of what your audience wants so I wouldn't discount this poll on AA even though it has less than 100 voters, each one of those votes IMO counts for a lot more people.

 

 - This shows that "general" retrogaming fans are much less interested in this system, so much less interested that a higher percentage couldn't be bothered to even vote.

 

 - That being said, there are enough people who ARE interested regardless of the branding.

 

 - I feel the majority of ColecoVision hobbyists who would buy this system are most certainly connected online with one of the many enthusiast groups out there. 

 

 - Seeing that well over 1,000 people have "interest" in a system like CollectorVision's is a pretty good sign, however I'm curious to see what the poll would look like if I asked "How many people would be interested in a new CV system at $200?"

 

And most importantly....

 

It really just shows that all the drama over the past few pages is really pointless because people just want a new ColecoVision system to replace their old hardware.  And if CollectorVision can get that level of interest while at the same time NOT having to support a company who has shown such a lack of respect towards the community, let them brand it with their own company logo and gain the respect that "Coleco Holdings" has lost.



#89 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:58 AM

The fpga vs software emulation results are not surprising. There's advantages to each. Software emulation is cheaper, more options available, compatible with more controllers. Fpga emulation is more efficient, better with physical cartridge compatibility and more like the real thing. Both can be highly accurate.

The 61 votes relative to the activity in the emulation sub forum is actually much larger participation, four to five times larger than that in either this poll here or the cv facebook poll. Those polls actually have roughly the same participation taking into account the percentage of aa members that engage the cv subforum.

And yes a slghtly different question would most likely change the results. If this poll asked if the branding would deter a purchase you'd probably get significantly fewer negative votes, just as adding the price tag on the facebook poll would change things there.

#90 PhoenixMoonPatrol OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:35 AM

I have no control over what these guys do so my attitude is show me the systems and the games. Life is too short to get involved with drama. 



#91 MrBeefy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:33 AM

I have no control over what these guys do so my attitude is show me the systems and the games. Life is too short to get involved with drama. 


This whole thread is about drama. I think we should be happy that a new CV system is being made that isn't some POS like the Retron77.

#92 lawdawg710 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:10 PM

I plan on getting one and am excited that there will be some modern love for the ColecoVision in the form of an FPGA HD console that I can play all my game cartridges on, and preserve my original console!!

#93 insertclevernamehere OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:34 AM

Anyone notice this is now called the Collectorvision Phoenix Video Game System? Unless I was asleep, this just seems to have happened out of the blue without any announcement. Just check the Collectorvision website.

#94 Bmack36 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:19 AM

Just a quick Update that people will be interested in:

 

http://atariage.com/...27#entry4091843

 

https://collectorvis...sion-hd-system/

 

Expect some other big announcements soon ;)


Edited by Bmack36, Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:20 AM.


#95 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:30 AM

Good choice, well done. 



#96 JBerel ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:43 AM

Good for them. I think this establishes a better path where this thing can build on the strength of the FPGA base, offer expansion ports to support other cartridges/features, and be a product unto itself without being handicapped by leveraging off a dead brand and obsolete equipment. This could be the cartridge based general games system a lot of people have wanted rather than a Colecovision remake like some Retron thing that tends to disappoint. Of course there's a link to the old Colecovision system from the eighties (which nobody has any actual ownership of anymore), but its strength is in being an actual new console not some, PC or Pi project board pretending to be a game console. 



#97 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:53 AM

Just a quick Update that people will be interested in:

 

http://atariage.com/...27#entry4091843

 

https://collectorvis...sion-hd-system/

 

Expect some other big announcements soon ;)

 

That's great news!

 

I'd also like to suggest that, now that the decision has been made not to move forward with the Coleco Holdings license, that we shift over to using the official CollectorVision Game System thread for further responses so that way there aren't two threads for this system floating around.  So do you guys mind if we pretty much consider this thread "closed" and keep all further discussion in this thread: http://atariage.com/...on-game-system/



#98 remowilliams OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:05 AM

Just a quick Update that people will be interested in:

 

 

That's great news!

 

 

It certainly is!  I'd add twenty more likes to that if I could.



#99 nick3092 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:18 AM

 
That's great news!
 
I'd also like to suggest that, now that the decision has been made not to move forward with the Coleco Holdings license, that we shift over to using the official CollectorVision Game System thread for further responses so that way there aren't two threads for this system floating around.  So do you guys mind if we pretty much consider this thread "closed" and keep all further discussion in this thread: http://atariage.com/...on-game-system/


That is great to hear the licensing deal is off the table!

As the one who started the thread/poll, I would not be against a mod locking the thread with a note to pointing to the other thread for further discussion of the system.
  • TPR likes this

#100 TPR OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:28 AM

That is great to hear the licensing deal is off the table!

As the one who started the thread/poll, I would not be against a mod locking the thread with a note to pointing to the other thread for further discussion of the system.

 

With that said, let's continue all discussion in the proper thread about this console: http://atariage.com/...on-game-system/






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