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ON TOPIC: Ponderings


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#26 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:58 PM

1) The 9640 Menu System

     The author is currently active in the community, if he had the time and will at some future date.

 

 

Hmmm.  CLOCK support was added to the '9640 menu' using the standard DSR call routine and it was tested with Classic99.  The artifact on the menu (next to the B or C selection) comes from the early DSR support routines.  Maybe that version wasn't released given my situation back then? That wouldn't surprise me.  I am not interested in adding new clock device routines if an existing method will do the job for TIPI (or any other similar peripheral) nor do I have any intention of removing legacy support for the older cards.  I'll wait to see how things shake out.



#27 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:03 PM

Most game carts have EA5 versions, which are just VDP versions of carts instead of GROM.

I am not talking about running anything else.

 

Of course what Carst are you thinking of Forth? LIsp? PCODE? TE2? 

What carts are you talking about?

 

The list of Carts of GROM ONLY format is smaller then those that are EA5 or EA3 formats.

 

Cartridge images are raw dumps of ROM or GROM. An E/A#5 version of a cartridge is not a cartridge image.



#28 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:39 AM

 

Cartridge images are raw dumps of ROM or GROM. An E/A#5 version of a cartridge is not a cartridge image.

Hmm true, but does that make a difference when running EA5 Defender or Cart Defender?

90% of my carts are GROM, but almost every single one has a EA5 version so who cares if they are GROM or EA5?

I mean if both run then who is making a big deal about it, they both work right?

 

Is this just to avoid use of the SAMS?


Edited by RXB, Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:49 AM.


#29 mizapf ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:12 AM

Hmm true, but does that make a difference when running EA5 Defender or Cart Defender?

 

Memory location?


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#30 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:00 AM

Hmm true, but does that make a difference when running EA5 Defender or Cart Defender?

90% of my carts are GROM, but almost every single one has a EA5 version so who cares if they are GROM or EA5?

I mean if both run then who is making a big deal about it, they both work right?

 

Is this just to avoid use of the SAMS?

 

Omega asked specifically whether it would be possible to run cartridge image bin's from SAMS. I'm sure he's already aware that he can run E/A#5 files.



#31 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:56 AM

 

Is this just to avoid use of the SAMS?

 

Sigh... quite the contrary Rich, I'll spell out what my thinking is on this idea.

 

1) IIRC some BIN's are rather large, others in DSK version require loading from DSK1 (which might require re-setting TIPI's path all the time) and for some *might* require a cartridge swap, this could eliminate those requirements (depending on the cartridge the user may or may not have.

 

2) The TIPI has a MASSIVE storage capability and could easily host ALL these BIN images for easy access on a users system.

 

3) This would give the SAMS card an actual application for PEB-TIPI users and possibly others as well.

 

4) This would eliminate the requirement for keeping multiple copies of the same programs in ones personal library.

 

5) The BIN's are easily located and hosted here at AtariAge.  This would make it easier for future or returning TI'ers to locate (in the repository) many programs and to them... even if they did not have an UberGROM, FlashROM or FinalGROM.

 

 

Omega asked specifically whether it would be possible to run cartridge image bin's from SAMS. I'm sure he's already aware that he can run E/A#5 files.

 

Yes sir!  I've been doing that for years!  ;)


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#32 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:38 PM

 

Memory location?

Yea some CARTS have to be adjusted to be used in 32K

A few come to mind that were shifted from >6000 or >8000 to be used at >A000 to >FFFF

 

Editor Assembly comes to mind as my REA is a >6000 shifted to >E000 in GROM, but works fine from any Address.

I even have a EA GROM >4000 version that I created and put Disk Manager at >2000

 

So this is not really much of a problem...unless you are attempting to make it huge problem?


Edited by RXB, Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:40 PM.


#33 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:45 PM

 

Sigh... quite the contrary Rich, I'll spell out what my thinking is on this idea.

 

1) IIRC some BIN's are rather large, others in DSK version require loading from DSK1 (which might require re-setting TIPI's path all the time) and for some *might* require a cartridge swap, this could eliminate those requirements (depending on the cartridge the user may or may not have.

 

2) The TIPI has a MASSIVE storage capability and could easily host ALL these BIN images for easy access on a users system.

 

3) This would give the SAMS card an actual application for PEB-TIPI users and possibly others as well.

 

4) This would eliminate the requirement for keeping multiple copies of the same programs in ones personal library.

 

5) The BIN's are easily located and hosted here at AtariAge.  This would make it easier for future or returning TI'ers to locate (in the repository) many programs and to them... even if they did not have an UberGROM, FlashROM or FinalGROM.

 

 

Yes sir!  I've been doing that for years!  ;)

So are you just using the SAMS as a RAMDISK?

Not as a memory expansion?

 

I do not see anything here that indicates SAMS is used other than a DISK? 

Or just a huge memory buffer like RS232 BUFFER?



#34 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:50 PM

So are you just using the SAMS as a RAMDISK?
Not as a memory expansion?
 
I do not see anything here that indicates SAMS is used other than a DISK? 
Or just a huge memory buffer like RS232 BUFFER?

 
Am I truly unable to compose comprehensible sentences, or paragraphs?  

#35 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:09 AM

Yea some CARTS have to be adjusted to be used in 32K

A few come to mind that were shifted from >6000 or >8000 to be used at >A000 to >FFFF

 

Editor Assembly comes to mind as my REA is a >6000 shifted to >E000 in GROM, but works fine from any Address.

I even have a EA GROM >4000 version that I created and put Disk Manager at >2000

 

So this is not really much of a problem...unless you are attempting to make it huge problem?

 

OK, so you can easily make a version of RXB that can run from SAMS without any cartridge?  ;)



#36 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:10 PM

 

OK, so you can easily make a version of RXB that can run from SAMS without any cartridge?  ;)

When did I say that?

GAMES is what I said have been EA5 or EA3 or Carts, same exact game.

 

No where did I indicate RXB that is ROMs and GPL could be converted to 32K space,

especially since XB uses the 32K both Lower 8K and Upper 24K to run programs from.

 

Much unlike games that are NOT RUNNING OTHER PROGRAMS FROM 32K RAM.

 

Yes a XB has been written that runs from 32K, and sucks as it has so little Program space 

that it can only run XB programs half the size of normal Version 110 of XB.

Thus what is the point of that endeavor?


Edited by RXB, Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:11 PM.


#37 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:35 AM

Thus what is the point of that endeavor?

 

It was just an example of a cartridge image bin that cannot run from SAMS. It sounds like we agree, then, on what I first wrote: cartridge images cannot run from SAMS without substantial changes.



#38 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:09 PM

 

It was just an example of a cartridge image bin that cannot run from SAMS. It sounds like we agree, then, on what I first wrote: cartridge images cannot run from SAMS without substantial changes.

Please accuracy:

 

SOME cartridge images cannot run from SAMS without substantial changes.

 

A majority of them actually have been running from 32K for many years.

 

​I just want honesty not hyperbole.


Edited by RXB, Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:12 PM.


#39 Asmusr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:51 PM

Please accuracy:

 

SOME cartridge images cannot run from SAMS without substantial changes.

 

A majority of them actually have been running from 32K for many years.

 

​I just want honesty not hyperbole.

 

Can you name a single cartridge image (not E/A#5 file) that can run from SAMS or 32K? A cartridge image is a raw dump of ROM and/or GROM files. Omega asked about cartridge image bin files - not E/A#5 files.



#40 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:01 PM

 

Can you name a single cartridge image (not E/A#5 file) that can run from SAMS or 32K? A cartridge image is a raw dump of ROM and/or GROM files. Omega asked about cartridge image bin files - not E/A#5 files.

LOL why are you fixated on Bin Cartridge dumps?

Does nothing else exist but those?

 

This is like asking can you name a EA3 Program Image?

Really that was a silly question you posted. 

"Can you name a single cartridge image (not E/A#5 file) that can run from SAMS or 32K?"



#41 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:59 PM

Rich - The "silly question" was mine, Rasmus answered it.

 

 

Dunno if it's possible, or even if it's necessary, but in pondering a use for the SAMS card, I was wondering...

How about a loader that could load and RUN cartridge format BIN's directly from the TIPI?

 

The TIPI has a massive storage potential, the files are all easy to find and download and since the TIPI loads things rather quickly, the wait would only be a second or two.

 

 

Most cartridge images would require substantial changes to be able to run from SAMS. The code would have to be relocated in memory and the bank switching mechanism replaced.

 

 

LOL why are you fixated on Bin Cartridge dumps?

Does nothing else exist but those?

 

This is like asking can you name a EA3 Program Image?

Really that was a silly question you posted. 

"Can you name a single cartridge image (not E/A#5 file) that can run from SAMS or 32K?"

 

Again, my thinking on this was a potential application for the SAMS card that you like so much.  You see I seem to recall a "cartridge intrepreter on disk" and my thinking was WHAT IF an intrepreter like this could reside in the SAMS memory environment leaving the lower 32K for running BINS, not necessarily GROM based stuff, but larger RAM type images.  Rasmus answered my question to my satisfaction, I see no need to continue this an argumentitive fashion.

 

For the record, it's my belief that the only 'silly question' is the one never asked.



#42 RXB OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:52 PM

Ok but I think you do not understand that SAMS is the 32K with multiple pages of 4K in any 32K locations.

I have no idea what you are describing when talking about SAMS like it is separate from the 32K?

 

Thus why would it not work with BINS are these BINs larger then 962K?



#43 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:53 PM

I'm done with this thread Rich.






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