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Is this the C64 attempt at AtariBlast?


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#1 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 8:09 AM

https://clay.ch/mono/

 

(Can't embed the video)

 

I'm not saying it IS an attempt at Atariblast or even based on it but its the 1st thing I thought of when I saw it...

 

Its a fairly nice use of Hires mode but I struggle at the E34.90 price tag....

 

Compared to AtariBlast as FREE and even if you factor in a cart to use it the same cart becomes multipurpose whereas this isn't...

 

Not not not looking at a C64 vs Atari war

 

Purely pointing out the similarity in style..



#2 Greg2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 9:31 AM

It's interesting, but I know I've seen retail games more technologically advanced than that on C64.



#3 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 9:32 AM

Other than being a shoot 'em up with various attack waves, I don't see the immediate similarities to AtariBlast.

 

As for the price, some comparisons of homebrew cartridges:

 

Mono (C64): 35 Euros ~= 41 USD

Sam's Journey (C64): 55 Euros ~= 64 USD

RGCD games (C64): 22 - 40 GBP ~= 28 - 52 USD (*)

AtariAge games (Atari 8-bit): 30 USD

Peteym5 / Video 61 games (Atari 8-bit & 5200): 40 USD

 

And that is not even discussing homebrews for the Atari 2600, Intellivision, Colecovision etc.



#4 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:25 PM

I find it hard to not see the similarities but each to their own...Not wanting to get in to how a shoot em up does or does not differ being that all shooters are normally different screens and waves of attacks type monologue...It looks like it to me :)

 

As for the price comparison, I weigh what's on offer even with Sam's Journey high price as being technically better offering based upon the video which I would have expected to give a taste of any must see stuff.

 

The real point is the price here, AtariBlast is free and stunning, Mono is (as the video) a bit like its name, bland and boring with nothing very tech going on (TMR would be a fair mediator as per the use of hardware) so apart from the cart cost I don't see what is being paid for to be honest (again, not wanting to get in to the time and effort part, its too easy to get bogged down in the minor technicalities of that)

 

I wish them every success but its just a tad weird........And looks like AtariBlast.....(to me)


Edited by Mclaneinc, Wed Aug 8, 2018 4:28 PM.


#5 TMR OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 3:35 AM

The real point is the price here, AtariBlast is free and stunning, Mono is (as the video) a bit like its name, bland and boring with nothing very tech going on (TMR would be a fair mediator as per the use of hardware)


S'hard to say without actually watching it run, but going from the video it looks to be 50FPS with a double buffered colour scroll - not heavily employed but there's a few screens with five or more colours - on the background, some rollback parallax and I'd say a 16 sprite multiplexer. Better than it might initially look technically and, with the targeted bullets, more adept than some full pricers from "back in the day".

That said, the graphics themselves are underwhelming for 2018 and the status bar rolling around like that feels a little "cheap". =-)
 

so apart from the cart cost I don't see what is being paid for to be honest (again, not wanting to get in to the time and effort part, its too easy to get bogged down in the minor technicalities of that)


You're paying to support the developers and give them an incentive to keep going. No it isn't AtariBlast but if every game had to be better than it's predecessors technically we wouldn't have had more than a handful of new C64 games since the 1990s. And there's always the chance it plays really well of course...

The cartridge cost is still going to be taking the lion's share of the money anyway; they won't have any bulk deals for the parts, have to cover shipping and then there's the time spent burning EPROMs, assembing hardware and so forth even if we ignore the hours required to write the game in the first place. They're really not going to be rolling in it.

I wish them every success but its just a tad weird........And looks like AtariBlast.....(to me)


No more than any other vertical shooter with some character redefining parallax does... hell, i did that in the 1990s so, if we're going to generalise to that degree, AtariBlast looks like my game! =-)

#6 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 4:55 AM

Thanks for jumping in as semi requested me old mucker...

 

Ta for the breakdown of an approximate idea of what is going on, I use the word approximate not to dent your programming prowess but because its a from looking at a video but I date say you are spot on..You know your stuff..

 

As re point two, that was exactly why I didn't want to go down that route of bringing the rights and wrongs of dev time use, I was purely pointing out from what was on show pure and simple, its an age old reviewers process as you know, it would take too much column space up to break down the game dev time and use thereof. Compared to what is out there I don't see what is being paid for and to quote a C64 site post "I think someone is jumping on the cartridge bandwagon" which read after my post last night. Its not a horrible game its just not got the hook you would expect these days.

 

Again I made sure that I noted the cart cost was the main part and of course NO ONE is rolling in it from dev work these days but this is now being more than it was meant to be, its starting to be a critique of C64 games and all games in general which is more than the wanted scope of this.

 

I rarely ever make a down comment on a game or a devs work, I support each and every dev but I think its fair that in extreme cases you have the decency to tell the a fair thought re the title. Its just a rare item that seems out of place with today's titles..

 

And there you go again you old sod, I said I wanted to avoid the classification of what makes one shooter different from the next because you might as well pick the first ever known recognised shooter and say every thing is a derivative of that one game only using variations on the levels and directions etc. I said it seemed to follow the style of Atariblast in types of backgrounds which to me made it seem like it was a Atariblast inspired version if you will...Its a personal viewpoint, nothing more, nothing less..Hence the "is this a C64 attempt at Atariblast" question, not saying it IS that but does it seem to be from looking at it..

 

As said, I wish them well, it matters not what I think alone, its what the purchasing people see and and they like, its just not my cup of tea...Early signs show a less positive response but its up to the people who like it to put their hand in their pocket and make their choice..



#7 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 5:32 AM

Thanks for jumping in as semi requested me old mucker...

 

Ta for the breakdown of an approximate idea of what is going on, I use the word approximate not to dent your programming prowess but because its a from looking at a video but I date say you are spot on..You know your stuff..

 

As re point two, that was exactly why I didn't want to go down that route of bringing the rights and wrongs of dev time use, I was purely pointing out from what was on show pure and simple, its an age old reviewers process as you know, it would take too much column space up to break down the game dev time and use thereof. Compared to what is out there I don't see what is being paid for and to quote a C64 site post "I think someone is jumping on the cartridge bandwagon" which read after my post last night. Its not a horrible game its just not got the hook you would expect these days.

 

Again I made sure that I noted the cart cost was the main part and of course NO ONE is rolling in it from dev work these days but this is now being more than it was meant to be, its starting to be a critique of C64 games and all games in general which is more than the wanted scope of this.

 

I rarely ever make a down comment on a game or a devs work, I support each and every dev but I think its fair that in extreme cases you have the decency to tell the a fair thought re the title. Its just a rare item that seems out of place with today's titles..

 

And there you go again you old sod, I said I wanted to avoid the classification of what makes one shooter different from the next because you might as well pick the first ever known recognised shooter and say every thing is a derivative of that one game only using variations on the levels and directions etc. I said it seemed to follow the style of Atariblast in types of backgrounds which to me made it seem like it was a Atariblast inspired version if you will...Its a personal viewpoint, nothing more, nothing less..Hence the "is this a C64 attempt at Atariblast" question, not saying it IS that but does it seem to be from looking at it..

 

As said, I wish them well, it matters not what I think alone, its what the purchasing people see and and they like, its just not my cup of tea...Early signs show a less positive response but its up to the people who like it to put their hand in their pocket and make their choice..

 

Probably the most British response I've seen in a long time. I have been cooped up here in Brisbane though :)



#8 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 5:42 AM

Not long before that accent takes hold :)

 

You old Pom :)



#9 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 7:06 AM

Besides the price comparison, I realized another difference to e.g. the RGCD games is that those often are available as free downloads, sometimes in more basic versions. I didn't check if Mono elsewhere is offered as a digital download, or if it will have to wait for a crack to appear on CSDb within weeks if it already hasn't turned up. I hear that among console users, paid ROM downloads kind of work but perhaps us home computer users by tradition are more of pirates in our attitude. I am no exception to that rule, I also want my retro games for free as long as possible, even if it sometimes involves a bit of illegal action to obtain them.

 

Also I would want to consider playability as much as technical achievements. Many games can look and sound great, but if they have poorly designed levels or difficulty ramp, you either need to be a completionist collector or eventually regret even spending $25 if not $40 on a game that will sit in the shelf.

 

Anyway there is an easy solution here, just ignore a game you think is not worth the money. That applies even to eventual Atari 8-bit games for sale where the product doesn't quite seem to match the price tag.



#10 ivop OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 12:11 PM

And looks like AtariBlast.....(to me)

 

Perhaps it's because some of the enemy sprites look like they have been "borrowed" from old games. For instance the Choplifter helicopters.



#11 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 12:21 PM

Maybe, its more the ultra randomness like Atariblast between levels and things like the circuit board background as seen in AtariBlast (and a few other games) :)

 

Maybe also the quirky nature like Atariblast but no where near as fun looking :)


Edited by Mclaneinc, Thu Aug 9, 2018 12:22 PM.


#12 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Aug 9, 2018 6:37 PM

IF it would be possible to write such a game for the commode door, what kind of frame rate could be expected? I wouldn't think much.

#13 TMR OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:06 AM

Thanks for jumping in as semi requested me old mucker...


That was sheer luck matey, I've been writing demo code all week and was catching up on a few days of backlog... could've missed this thread entirely. =-)

Ta for the breakdown of an approximate idea of what is going on, I use the word approximate not to dent your programming prowess but because its a from looking at a video but I date say you are spot on..You know your stuff..


[Curtsey] Yeah, it's always going to be guesswork without having running code in front of me to test things like trashing colour RAM to see how it recovers - a quick and dirty way to work out how the colour scroller works - or rifling through the RAM to see how everything is laid out, but there's enough working examples that do something similar to base assumptions on and I've got prototypes for similar engines.


As re point two, that was exactly why I didn't want to go down that route of bringing the rights and wrongs of dev time use, I was purely pointing out from what was on show pure and simple, its an age old reviewers process as you know, it would take too much column space up to break down the game dev time and use thereof.


I reckon that always has to be considered though, because people are essentially having to ask themselves if they want to support the developer; like I said, it's technically quite adept so who knows what might come next from the same people.

IF it would be possible to write such a game for the commode door, what kind of frame rate could be expected? I wouldn't think much.


If...? A sprite multiplexer with fixed speed character-based scrolling and colour RAM updates is very much in the Breadbin's wheelhouse - even with the background objects to worry about - and there's plenty of "prior art" from the 1980s and 1990s already like Terra Cresta, Enforcer, Slayer, Lightforce or even good ol' SEUCK already. Hell, the C64 game we're talking about isn't actually that far off the basics of what AtariBlast would need on the C64 technically!

And I'm only thinking about it for a stock, 64K machine either running from disk or "loading" from cartridge, going the other route and throwing in a RAM expansion completely changes the playing field, the C64 can move data around several times faster in those circumstances.

#14 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:17 AM

I smiled.... Brits Talking ;)

#15 TMR OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:42 AM

I smiled.... Brits Talking ;)


Cor blimey, strike a light guv'nor.

#16 Stefan Both OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:03 PM

Perhaps it's because some of the enemy sprites look like they have been "borrowed" from old games. For instance the Choplifter helicopters.

That could be a tribute to the game choplifter ;-)
There is a running gag with 'choplifter' at least in forum64.de.
A summary of the story can be found here:
http://todde.bplaced.net/choplifter/
(sorry, german only g but you could use
a translator. It's worth it.)
https://translate.go...UC6mSwSkKq70jRQ


Stefan

#17 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:46 PM

Not long before that accent takes hold :)

 

You old Pom :)

 

Oddly enough, I haven't changed my accent at all (and nobody in the family says I have either).

 

The only thing differece is how I say the word 'cache'. Previously I would say it like "Cash" but now say "Kaysh" as if I don't, it confuses everyone that I talk to. Every time I say the word though, I feel a bit annoyed inside.


Edited by snicklin, Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:46 PM.


#18 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:06 AM

kashay?

cashay?

cache'?

 

omg like it's french or something....   I only ever here it as you say cash or cache' (cashay) so if caesh (kaesh) it propagatin' down undah you gotta end it while it's happy! Stop it from spreading!



#19 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:05 AM

I don't care how people speak as long as its civil, not much of an ask you would have thought but bloody hard to get these days :(

 

And @Steve, I'm sorry mate, you are now a n Aussie...No tea and scones for you dear boy! :)

 

@TMR, yes I guess its fair play not to put them off as the next game could be amazing but sadly on a certain C64 only forum you don't spend much time on has savaged that game and shredded it...Part of me says well,they really should have put more effort graphically in to a sale item compared to the free stuff that is Grade A a lot of the time but yes, they might be stars in the making...I still lean more towards the former comment though...

 

Also, yeah saw your blog the other day, gets mentioned in Indie news a lot...Constant fiver in the post?


Edited by Mclaneinc, Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:05 AM.


#20 TMR OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:32 AM

@TMR, yes I guess its fair play not to put them off as the next game could be amazing but sadly on a certain C64 only forum you don't spend much time on has savaged that game and shredded it...


One of the lesser reasons I stopped going there... do they still hypocritically slag off the CSDb for doing the same? =-)
 

Part of me says well,they really should have put more effort graphically in to a sale item compared to the free stuff that is Grade A a lot of the time but yes, they might be stars in the making...I still lean more towards the former comment though...


It's worth remembering that's a 16K cartridge as well; I got Edge Grinder into 16K but only just and that only has one level and no multiplexer. The map and attack wave data for six levels means they'd have to make sacrifices somewhere and variety in the graphics would be the first candidate for me in that situation.
 

Also, yeah saw your blog the other day, gets mentioned in Indie news a lot...Constant fiver in the post?


[Blink, blink] Gets mentioned where? News to me, I thought it was just half a dozen friends and the odd passer by who was Googling something else reading my blog! (Speaking of which, here's a shameless plug for a new post this morning about the demo Future Shock on the C64 - last week it was Five To Five on the Atari 8-bit. =-)

Edited by TMR, Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:33 AM.


#21 ivop OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:01 AM

That could be a tribute to the game choplifter ;-)
There is a running gag with 'choplifter' at least in forum64.de.
A summary of the story can be found here:
http://todde.bplaced.net/choplifter/

 

Had a good laugh :)  Running gags can be a lot of fun. On /r/jokes it's always the bus driver. And years ago there was this (Dutch) news site where people would react on the death of a famous person with "RIP for those left behind" (loose translation) and others would always react to point out it's not those left behind that rest in peace. On /. one would call that a *whoooosh*

 

BTW I guess you're right about this being the choplifter gag.


Edited by ivop, Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:01 AM.


#22 kiwilove OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:24 PM

My own personal viewpoint is as follows:

 

It does have some things maybe in common with AtariBlast! - if it had lots more animation than normal - than other games - then it would be AB! influenced for sure.

 

I do think the graphics could be better drawn here - and I can say that a lot of Atari games look that way too - in which a graphics guy (or gal) is missing...

 

Hopefully this team are only just starting - and will continue getting better and better?

 

To those working on their own projects - I'd say - do make use of animation as much as possible?  Animate, animate, animate!

It won't improve the gameplay - but at least it can look professional - and up to date - instead of looking somewhat tired - as if - what it was like back in the day?

 

Harvey



#23 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:50 AM

Could not agree more, their prob is they used Hires mode (and possibly only that mode, TMR etc will know for sure) and its a bland mode so you just have to make it exciting to look at..

 

@TMR, you get the odd mention on here but its about 8 pages back by now ,  http://www.indieretronews.com/

 

Edge Grinder barely fitting on a 16K cart...I blame the author, stop using SEUCK to make games ;)   

 

(Note to others, he doesn't, TMR has released a great batch of all sorts of games and demo's, a very very talented coder...)    (First class post for the fiver this time please)



#24 Jetboot Jack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:35 AM

I guess it's a matter of who cares - what is the issue with those guys being inspired by AtariBlast or not, since 99% of all games are inspired by the few actual original ideas?

 

sTeVE



#25 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:20 AM

What is original and what isn't, a tough one to sort out...You could have and we probably have had many threads regarding this.......Too deep for me these days, I'm up for a simpler life now..

 

As JBJ, as for JBJ resting, not any more, he's on these forums as you may well know, he might put a copyright claim for his nick ;)

 

Nice to see the real Jetboot Jack on here AKA Mr Jon Williams or Nojeee as he is on here...






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