External video processor to correctly display old pc resolutions?

[xenphor]

I built a Windows 98 pc and would like to use my 1080p monitor as a display. It is able to correct the aspect ratio to 4:3 on the most common resolutions like 640x480, but the pixels do not seemed to be scaled properly, so fine 2d elements look kind of garbled. Even worse though is that the common dos resolution, 320x200, cannot be aspect corrected by my monitor so it is 16:9 stretched. Is there some sort of device that could handle these common pc resolutions so they could display properly on a 1080p display? I've asked about using a framemeister or ossc, but I don't think the ossc would help because it's not a scaler, and I'm not sure if the framemeister would be good for a pc. It would also be nice if it didn't cost as much as either of those.

 

I do have a 5:4 LCD which a lot of people seem to use in retro pc builds, though I'm not sure why because then the image is either stretched vertically or not aspect corrected that well either (at least mine can't even do aspect correction).

Edited August 11, 2018 by xenphor

[Grimakis]

I am making two assumptions.

 

1. You are using VGA out.

2. Your resolution is 640x480.

 

If so, you probably can get the Framemeister to work. You'd need a sync combiner as well, as it doesn't support RGBHV. Then if you want pixel perfect scaling, you have to run it in the x2 scaling mode, which is going to leave you with a 1280x960 image in the middle of the screen with 60 black pixels on the top and bottom, and fairly large letterboxing/

 

Honestly, it's not the greatest solution. Be prepared for a lot of black borders.

[boxpressed]

Hi. You need one of these. Ive seen them sold for $15-$50. You just missed an eBay seller blowing out a bunch for $15 each. Below is a good video explaining how to use it.

[mr_me]

Your monitor likely doesn't know about aspect ratio, it's just keeping the pixels square. A 640x480 redolution with square pixels is 4:3 but 320x200 is 16:10. It's the old 4:3 monitor that was stretching it to 4:3.

[xenphor]

I am making two assumptions.

 

1. You are using VGA out.

2. Your resolution is 640x480.

 

If so, you probably can get the Framemeister to work. You'd need a sync combiner as well, as it doesn't support RGBHV. Then if you want pixel perfect scaling, you have to run it in the x2 scaling mode, which is going to leave you with a 1280x960 image in the middle of the screen with 60 black pixels on the top and bottom, and fairly large letterboxing/

 

Honestly, it's not the greatest solution. Be prepared for a lot of black borders.

 

Well it's more for DOS resolutions like 320x200. With 640x480 my monitor can correct it, although it looks kind of bad with the uneven pixel scaling, I can live with it.

 

Hi. You need one of these. Ive seen them sold for $15-$50. You just missed an eBay seller blowing out a bunch for $15 each. Below is a good video explaining how to use it.

 

Hm that looks pretty good, too bad I missed out. However, he seems to only show it for capturing footage, whereas I would like to play from it. How is input lag and stuff like that? From what he briefly showed in gameplay, I also saw screen tearing and stuttering. Is it not able to properly handle 70hz refresh rates that DOS games use?

 

Your monitor likely doesn't know about aspect ratio, it's just keeping the pixels square. A 640x480 redolution with square pixels is 4:3 but 320x200 is 16:10. It's the old 4:3 monitor that was stretching it to 4:3.

 

Well it can't even correct 320x200 to 16:10; it just stretches all the way to 16:9. It would almost be okay if it could do 16:10 since I'm used to playing games like that in dosbox.

Edited August 17, 2018 by xenphor

[boxpressed]

I believe there is some lag using the Startech. I recall it not being a problem for me, but ymmv. It was almost imperceptible to me.

 

My advice is to buy a 15 inch 4:3 monitor from Goodwill for $8. 1024x768 or 800x600. If it doesnt work out, donate it back.

Edited August 17, 2018 by boxpressed

[xenphor]

I believe there is some lag using the Startech. I recall it not being a problem for me, but ymmv. It was almost imperceptible to me.

 

My advice is to buy a 15 inch 4:3 monitor from Goodwill for $8. 1024x768 or 800x600. If it doesnt work out, donate it back.

 

You mean a CRT monitor? I haven't seen any of those at a goodwill in a long time and I'd rather not use one honestly. I did have one a while back that came with a ton of issues and returning doesn't help because they only give you in-store credit which I would never use. I don't think I've ever seen a 4:3 lcd at all. Even some that are listed as 4:3 still have a 1280x1024 native resolution.

Edited August 17, 2018 by xenphor

[Rybags]

Lots of modern TVs and monitors have an aspect ratio control so it's worth a look. Sometimes a remote key, sometimes by trawling through the menus.

[boxpressed]

 

You mean a CRT monitor? I haven't seen any of those at a goodwill in a long time and I'd rather not use one honestly. I did have one a while back that came with a ton of issues and returning doesn't help because they only give you in-store credit which I would never use. I don't think I've ever seen a 4:3 lcd at all. Even some that are listed as 4:3 still have a 1280x1024 native resolution.

 

No, I was talking about 4:3 LCD monitors. They are plentiful at my thrifts. I believe that 4:3 are more common than 5:4, which, as you say, is not a great resolution for retro games. For instance, I bought a Dell 1600x1200 monitor back in 2003 or so, and it is great for DOS gaming. I also had a nice 14" 4:3 Dell that I ended up donating because of space issues. Your local pawn shops are probably giving them away.

[xenphor]

 

No, I was talking about 4:3 LCD monitors. They are plentiful at my thrifts. I believe that 4:3 are more common than 5:4, which, as you say, is not a great resolution for retro games. For instance, I bought a Dell 1600x1200 monitor back in 2003 or so, and it is great for DOS gaming. I also had a nice 14" 4:3 Dell that I ended up donating because of space issues. Your local pawn shops are probably giving them away.

 

I have never seen a 4:3 LCD in my life unless it was in a specialized device and certainly not at a thrift shop. Where I live they are all 5:4 1280x1024, and any time I've checked online they are also all 1280x1024.

 

edit: I guess there are 1600x1200 displays on ebay, for some reason I never searched for that specific resolution.

Edited August 17, 2018 by xenphor

[boxpressed]

Good luck on your project!

[xenphor]

I ordered a Dell 2007 fpb monitor so hopefully it'll work out.

[boxpressed]

I have the Dell 2001FP. The 2007FP is supposed to have a superior IPS screen over the 2001FP. Both monitors are classics and top choices for LCD 4:3 gaming.

[xenphor]

Hm, I just watched a video by philscomputerlab about 1600x1200 that said IPS screens don't handle the DOS 70hz refresh that well so there might be stuttering. Although my 1080p IPS monitor seems to handle 70hz ok even though it can't correct the aspect ratio.

Edited August 17, 2018 by xenphor

[mr_me]

I have a regular tn-lcd 1920x1080 monitor and it has a wide/original setting. I found out that if the graphics has a wider aspect ratio, i.e. >16:9, the monitor ignores the original setting and stretches to fit. If it's less, e.g. 640x480 it keeps the original. Standard vga 80x25 text actually has a graphic resolution of 720x400. That's wider than the monitor and is stretched to fit. Vga 320x200 should be less wide and should display at 16:10 but my monitor thinks it's wider and stretches to fit. I have a crt monitor that shows the timings. Both vga text and vga 320x200 have similar timings of h31.5khz and v70hz. That indicates that vga320x200 actually has 400 lines. Still not sure why my monitor thinks it's wider than 16:9.

[mr_me]

I tested on another monitor that displays the resolution it's receiving. It shows vga320x200 as a 720x400@70hz resolution. That's an extra wide 1.8 square pixel aspect ratio. Most monitors, unless it has a setting to do otherwise, will stretch to fit.

Edited August 20, 2018 by mr_me

[xenphor]

Well I got the monitor and it seems to be behaving as I feared. The scaling and everything is great at common 4:3 resolutions like 800x600 and 1024x768, but it doesn't seem to be able to handle odd refresh rates.

 

DOS games, while they look a lot better in the correct aspect ratio, now exhibit stuttering as if they were being played in dosbox on my main computer with a 60hz monitor, despite the monitor reporting 70hz. Even windows games that use odd refresh rates like Need for Speed III (64hz) also exhibited stuttering as if they were being played on my main machine with a 60hz display. Both of these are handled correctly by my current 16:9 monitor but then the aspect ratio and scaling is off.

 

So I guess I need to find a 1600x1200 monitor with a TN panel but I'm not sure I want to dump more money into this.

 

I tried auto adjusting the image many times and doing factory resets but it didn't help. I suppose I may still be able to use the display on my main computer for retro games, although I don't have a dvi-d cable on hand to test it at the moment.

Edited August 25, 2018 by xenphor