SMS Vs. 7800 in NA sales Discussion

[Bubsy3000]

Hello guys, recently I caught up on numerous threads and one in particular stood out to me. Drac made a thread about Atari XE game system sales, and some guy came in and the thread ended with a big fight, one guy said Atari was a failure and the SMS outsold the 7800 and blah blah blah.

 

Link to the thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/275433-atari-xe-game-system-sales/

 

However, despite the fight in that thread I've noticed ever since the 3.77 million 7800 number was proven to be not only for hardware, I've seen many Sega sites putting out the claim that the SMS possibly sold more than the 7800. Starting a fresh thread for this discussion, and with no fighting, I'd like to know the opinions of the Atari Age crew on this topic.

 

First, here's my view, feel free to disagree:

 

Now, I personally have a hard tome believing that the SMS outsold the 7800 in NA, in fact I believe the 2 million number for the SMS is likely bogus and that the 1.5 million also quoted as the possible LTD makes a lot more sense, especially since from 1990 onward, both machines sales cratered into dust. So i believe if the SMS has a chance of passing the 7800 it would have had to happen before 1990.

 

My main reason for thinking it's not possible is that the SMS sold 500,000 units in a LA times article in late 1987, and by the time I heard anything about SMS selling over 1 million units it was in 1990.

 

The 7800 sold 1 million by summer of 1988, not even a full year after the 87 LA times article. That leaves the holiday season of 1988 and the remainder of the 7800's lifespan for sales.

 

Now, Curts numbers do tell one thing that is true, that 1988 was the 7800s best year, of course compared to Nintendo that peak was insignificant, but when compared to the SMS, that's a pretty huge deal when determining who was the winner of "second place".

 

If Atari sold over 1 million with a holiday and several years left, I can't see how the SMS could have outsold the 7800 in NA at all. Sega removed the Sega Master System a couple years into the 90's because of poor sales, if it was indeed showing signs of catching up and passing the 7800 Sega likely would have kept it around a bit longer for some small profits, but in NA, they clearly were not getting those small profits and took it out of the market.

 

In my view, It's likely the 7800 likely reached over 2 million by 89 alone. A big holiday season in 1988, plus, decent sales in 89, could have already placed the 7800 over 2 million units, especially since less stores started carrying 2600's, and the 7800 in both the holiday season of 88 and 89 got a price cut. Considering 88 was the best year, that could have been 500k alone.

 

I'd like some other perspectives on this debate, perhaps someone has news articles to additional sales figures for either machine to help determine where the 7800 and SMS were at the end of their runs, or at least a give us a good guesstimate.

 

[bonus discussion: On the topic of the XE, which was also discussed in that thread, the XE had a better launch than the 7800 had, and it sold-out, I'd say probably at least 1 million where sold by the end, but likely not much more than that since Atari never truly positioned the XEGS as a video game competitor, which to be honest, maybe they should have, it was doing better than the 7800 for months and had a large(and growing) library of games.]

Edited September 23, 2018 by Bubsy3000

[jaybird3rd]

 

[Noah98]

Well, if this debate were about worldwide sales, there's no contest. Sega Master System was huge in Brazil and Europe. It sold about 8 million in Brazil alone, and over 6 million in Europe. I had a friend from England at the time, and the nes and 7800 were not as popular. The UK even had Master System themed magazines that he would bring back for me.

 

As far as not believing the NA numbers, I don't think your logic is sound. From what I remember at the time, the 7800 was initially a hit because parents liked that it was backwards compatible with the 2600. If they hadn't bought their kids an nes yet, it made sense to try to salvage the old game collection. The problem was, after the initial buzz (1st million in sales), excitement faded as the library of games was anemic (59 games total) and mostly rehashes of classic games. While the other systems were getting more modern looking games, the 7800 was not. There were a few gems, but not much to differentiate it.

 

On the flipside, the Sega Master System just kept getting better. Super Mario style side scrollers like Alex Kidd, Psycho Fox, Wonderboy, etc. Zelda style games like Golvellius, Golden Axe Warrior, and Lord of the Sword. Arcade games like Shinobi, Afterburner, and Ghouls and Ghosts. RPG's like Phantasy Star, Miracle Warriors, and Ultima IV. Sports Games like Joe Montanna Football, Reggie Jackson Baseball, and Rocky. Even light gun games like Gangster Town, Rambo III, and Wanted. I could go on and on, but the fact is that the Sega Master System got better and tried to compete with Nintendo. Even the 3D glasses generated some buzz. All that and the fact that there was even a budget version of the console (Master System II) with Alex Kidd built in. Even Sonic the Hedgehog made an appearance!

 

For newer releases, if you compared the screenshots of Double Dragon and Rampage between the Atari 7800 and the Master system versions, there was no contest. That's not even taking into account sound.

 

My parents initially made me buy a 7800 with the money I saved up because they heard the nes was unreliable, the SMS wasn't even out yet, and I still had a ton of 2600 games. I didn't really want it, because the games looked low res (not sure why most games ran in the low res mode) and Pole Position II was super lame compared to most of the nes launch lineup. Luckily, the first two 7800's we bought from Toys R' Us died and we had to return them. After that my dad was done with the system and I waited. As soon as the Sega Master System was announced I bought that instead. It was funny because the first 7800 died when I put my Atari 2600 Spiderman cart in it. When we got the second 7800, I put Spiderman in it too because I was hoping it would stop working, which it did! My dad was pissed and was like "why do you keep putting that game in!" I was like, "I like Spiderman!"

 

Now of course, I love my 7800, nes, and SMS, so it's all good!

Edited September 23, 2018 by Noah98

[Keatah]

Just before I was going to rebuild my library I had purchased an SMS. I didn't even consider the 7800 - and didn't want to either - I wanted to get into the next generation of games and leave the past be in the past.. And SMS was pretty close (to me) to the arcade. I guess. FWIW.

[mbd30]

In b4 thread is locked.

[Flojomojo]

Biff? Do you need a cookie?

[Noah98]

Uh oh, did I get trolled into responding ?

[Bubsy3000]

Well, if this debate were about worldwide sales, there's no contest. Sega Master System was huge in Brazil and Europe. It sold about 8 million in Brazil alone, and over 6 million in Europe. I had a friend from England at the time, and the nes and 7800 were not as popular. The UK even had Master System themed magazines that he would bring back for me.

 

As far as not believing the NA numbers, I don't think your logic is sound. From what I remember at the time, the 7800 was initially a hit because parents liked that it was backwards compatible with the 2600. If they hadn't bought their kids an nes yet, it made sense to try to salvage the old game collection. The problem was, after the initial buzz (1st million in sales), excitement faded as the library of games was anemic (59 games total) and mostly rehashes of classic games. While the other systems were getting more modern looking games, the 7800 was not. There were a few gems, but not much to differentiate it.

 

On the flipside, the Sega Master System just kept getting better. Super Mario style side scrollers like Alex Kidd, Psycho Fox, Wonderboy, etc. Zelda style games like Golvellius, Golden Axe Warrior, and Lord of the Sword. Arcade games like Shinobi, Afterburner, and Ghouls and Ghosts. RPG's like Phantasy Star, Miracle Warriors, and Ultima IV. Sports Games like Joe Montanna Football, Reggie Jackson Baseball, and Rocky. Even light gun games like Gangster Town, Rambo III, and Wanted. I could go on and on, but the fact is that the Sega Master System got better and tried to compete with Nintendo. Even the 3D glasses generated some buzz. All that and the fact that there was even a budget version of the console (Master System II) with Alex Kidd built in. Even Sonic the Hedgehog made an appearance!

 

For newer releases, if you compared the screenshots of Double Dragon and Rampage between the Atari 7800 and the Master system versions, there was no contest. That's not even taking into account sound.

 

My parents initially made me buy a 7800 with the money I saved up because they heard the nes was unreliable, the SMS wasn't even out yet, and I still had a ton of 2600 games. I didn't really want it, because the games looked low res (not sure why most games ran in the low res mode) and Pole Position II was super lame compared to most of the nes launch lineup. Luckily, the first two 7800's we bought from Toys R' Us died and we had to return them. After that my dad was done with the system and I waited. As soon as the Sega Master System was announced I bought that instead. It was funny because the first 7800 died when I put my Atari 2600 Spiderman cart in it. When we got the second 7800, I put Spiderman in it too because I was hoping it would stop working, which it did! My dad was pissed and was like "why do you keep putting that game in!" I was like, "I like Spiderman!"

 

Now of course, I love my 7800, nes, and SMS, so it's all good!

I am confused by your post. I agree with you 100% the SMS had a better library, especially later on, but I don't think that's enough to determine whether its believable or not that the 7800 outsold the SMS or the other way around in NA. Remember, the 7800 sold 1 million by summer 88 and the SMS already had a game advantage at that time and once 1990 hit both consoles basically started selling to the dogs. In my opinion this isn't really about the game library but what the market wanted to buy, which of course was the NES primarily, however I think that 1 million in 1988 for the 7800 is something to consider.

 

 

With that said, I still have my Master System and enjoy it a bit more than my 7800. Though it sometimes has issues reading carts, it still works well today. Wonder Boy 3 in particular is one of my favorite games ever. In fact, I have a few of its ports including the one on the TG16.

 

Not a fan of the new 2017 "re-imagining" of it though, it looks really weird. Doesn't look like Wonder Boy at all.

 

 

Also funny story you got there about Spider-man, i wonder if the game itself was the cause of the malfunctions? I know some 2600 games have issues on 7800 hardware.

 

Just before I was going to rebuild my library I had purchased an SMS. I didn't even consider the 7800 - and didn't want to either - I wanted to get into the next generation of games and leave the past be in the past.. And SMS was pretty close (to me) to the arcade. I guess. FWIW.

No I think you're right, I don't think there was another video game console out other than the SMS that was close to the arcades. Even for computers I'm not sure if any of them were significantly better than the Master System. Sega did right with the graphics on that one!

 

(Seems a lot of the old posts I made about my SMS collection are gone from back when I joined years ago. I guess Atariage doesn't keep posts around after a certain period of time. Or maybe it was because I only had like 4 posts anyway lol.)

Edited September 23, 2018 by Bubsy3000

[Keatah]

Might have.

[Noah98]

"I am confused by your post. I agree with you 100% the SMS had a better library, especially later on, but I don't think that's enough to determine whether its believable or not that the 7800 outsold the SMS or the other way around in NA. Remember, the 7800 sold 1 million by summer 88 and the SMS already had a game advantage at that time and once 1990 hit both consoles basically started selling to the dogs."

 

I guess what I mean is that it wouldn't surprise me if the 7800 sold well at first (first million), but tapered off, and the Sega Master System sold slower at first, and picked up speed. I know Christmas '88 I got quite a few Sega Master System games, and in 1989, Master System had some great games and could have easily sold enough to catch the 7800. I do remember things slowing down when the Sega Genesis commercials started airing. Even I decided to wait until Nintendo came out with their new system before I bought into Sega again!

 

Still, it would be interesting to know the real numbers. I would be surprised to hear that the 7800 outsold the SMS, even in NA. I don't remember hearing any buzz about the 7800 in 1989. I do remember arguing with my friends about how much more advanced the SMS was compared with the nes. I was an unapolgetic fanboy! I even thought Alex Kidd and Golvellius were superior to Mario and Zelda lol! I now know I had no clue ?

 

Anyone have reliable data on SMS NA sales? Again, I think worldwide it's no contest. But even when I think back to toy stores back then, I distinctly remember the awesome nes section, the decent SMS section (can't beat that box art--cool grid with a stupid picture in the corner. See Pro Wrestling and Black Belt), and the non existent 7800 section.

[Bubsy3000]

"I am confused by your post. I agree with you 100% the SMS had a better library, especially later on, but I don't think that's enough to determine whether its believable or not that the 7800 outsold the SMS or the other way around in NA. Remember, the 7800 sold 1 million by summer 88 and the SMS already had a game advantage at that time and once 1990 hit both consoles basically started selling to the dogs."

 

I guess what I mean is that it wouldn't surprise me if the 7800 sold well at first (first million), but tapered off, and the Sega Master System sold slower at first, and picked up speed. I know Christmas '88 I got quite a few Sega Master System games, and in 1989, Master System had some great games and could have easily sold enough to catch the 7800. I do remember things slowing down when the Sega Genesis commercials started airing. Even I decided to wait until Nintendo came out with their new system before I bought into Sega again!

 

Still, it would be interesting to know the real numbers. I would be surprised to hear that the 7800 outsold the SMS, even in NA. I don't remember hearing any buzz about the 7800 in 1989. I do remember arguing with my friends about how much more advanced the SMS was compared with the nes. I was an unapolgetic fanboy! I even thought Alex Kidd and Golvellius were superior to Mario and Zelda lol! I now know I had no clue ?

 

Anyone have reliable data on SMS NA sales? Again, I think worldwide it's no contest. But even when I think back to toy stores back then, I distinctly remember the awesome nes section, the decent SMS section (can't beat that box art--cool grid with a stupid picture in the corner. See Pro Wrestling and Black Belt), and the non existent 7800 section.

Well at the time the SMS started picking up the Genesis was out so who knows.

 

As for Alex Kiss and Golve, I don't think you were completely wrong, GRAPHICALLY those games were superior to SMB and Zelda. I also think Alex Kidd may have given SMB a run for its money because of that, IF Sega had more money to market it. I think Segas biggest mistake with Alex Kidd was not releasing it bundled with the SMS in NA.

 

Instead I believe Alex Kidd started as a stand-alone titles and released a year later in 87 instead of 86 where the 7800 and the NES both also released. First Alex Kidd actually wasn't that bad imo.

 

The second Alex Kidd game, the lost stars, was very, very, very bad though. Not sure what Sega was thinking with that one.

[Jess Ragan]

Somebody punch this dude in the butt.