Why did the N64 not do as well in Japan or Europe compared to the US?

[Bubsy3000]

We all know that the US market is the reason why the N64 didn't become a commercial failure for Nintendo but why were Europe and Asia so uninterested in the N64 compared to the US? It's a question that never really added up.

 

Keep in mind Nintendo was dominating with the SNES and NES in japan, and the hype for big 3D games was equal there as well as Europe. Yet, only the US cared about the N64. It sold about as well as the Saturn which in Segas case was a success but in Nintendos case was a huge beat down coming from the former two time champ.

 

I know the N64 has problems with game releases, which definitely puts a mark on its sales, but GE kind of helped with that in the US and it did really well in Europe as well, but even with GE and Rare Europe still had no interest in buying more consoles.

 

In the US, the Ultra 64, the original name for the N64, was hyped up just like it was everywhere else, it had the same gaps in game releases as everywhere else, yet the N64 did much better. N64 even had a much bigger launch in japan than the Saturn and the PS.

 

The only thing I can think of is that Sony didn't take all of the old market share of Sega and some of it went to the N64 given the Saturn was not relevant in US??????

 

Below are the top 10 best selling N64 games of Japan and the US for comparison:

 

 

Japanese Top 10:

N64 Mario Kart 64 1.711.661

N64 Super Mario 64 1.646.558

N64 Super Smash Bros. 1.632.046

N64 The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 1.143.570

N64 Pocket Monsters' Stadium 1.094.765

N64 Mario Party 2 131.155 884.249

N64 Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards 882.228

N64 Yoshi's Story 852.864

N64 Donkey Kong 64 848.375

N64 Mario Party 3 221.240

 

US Top 10:

N64 SUPER MARIO 64 5,943,556

N64 GOLDENEYE 007 5,019,092

N64 MARIO KART 64 4,796,623

N64 ZELDA: OCARINA TIME 3,543,388

N64 SUPER SMASH BROTHERS 2,546,810

N64 POKEMON STADIUM 2,501,915

N64 DIDDY KONG RACING 2,500,609

N64 DONKEY KONG 64 2,336,132

N64 POKEMON SNAP 1,916,105

N64 STAR FOX 64 W/RMBL PK 1,903,652

Edited September 28, 2018 by Bubsy3000

[digdugnate]

do we really need another one of those navel-gazing system sales comparison posts?

[Bubsy3000]

do we really need another one of those navel-gazing system sales comparison posts?

This thread is only about the N64.

[derFunkenstein]

do we really need another one of those navel-gazing system sales comparison posts?

 

This thread is only about the N64.

do we do we really need another one of those navel-gazing system sales comparison posts only about the N64?

[8th lutz]

What happened to N64 in Asia actually adds up. You are ignoring Japan was a huge RPG market. N64 didn't have a lot of RPGs. Dragon Question and Final Fantasy always been huge hits in Japan and N64 not having a game from either franchise did hurt them a lot at the time. CD media at the time cost less than Cartridges did besides CDS storing more memory than a Cartridge can. RPGS in nature in nature costs a lot in cartridge form due to battery backup and a CD can make a game bigger than Cartridge can at the time.

 

N64 not being a disc based system really hurt Nintendo towards RPGS. N64 not being a disc based system was why Squaresoft went to Sony and Final Fantasy 7 became a huge hit.

 

N64 had Konami as a third party, but yet didn't have suikoden series unlike the Saturn and playstation one.

 

Capcom had Breath of Fire 3 for Playstation 1, but not on N64 due to N64 being a cartridge based system.

 

Atlus had games for the N64, but didn't bring the Megami Tensei franchise to the N64, unlike the Playstation and saturn. That was caused by N64 being a cartridge based system.

 

Enix released a couple games for N64, but no RPGS. That was by N64 being a cartridge system. Enix not doing any RPGS for the N64 was a huge problem.

 

Namco released N64 games, but didn't releases a Tales series game on the N64. That is a big deal cause the original Tales series game Tales of Phantasia was on the Super Nintendo.

Edited September 29, 2018 by 8th lutz

[MrMaddog]

Because they hate obnoxious Ninny fanbois who never grew up and keep spamming forums with stupid posts, now go away...

[Video]

People always want to throw in that rpg thing, but rarely will you see mention of the fact there is simply more people (with disposable income) in the US than elsewhere.

 

Outside a few systems that were overall failures, or not released here, I'd imagine most systems sold better in the US than japan.

[Atariboy2600]

Not-----Enough-----Japanese-Role-Playing-Games.

[Andromeda Stardust]

People always want to throw in that rpg thing, but rarely will you see mention of the fact there is simply more people (with disposable income) in the US than elsewhere.

 

Outside a few systems that were overall failures, or not released here, I'd imagine most systems sold better in the US than japan.

For comparison, Sega Genesis was a dud in Japan. SMS was a dud in the US but did great in Europe. Turbografx/PC Engine was wildly popular in Japan, a commercial failure in the US, and unheard of in Europe. Europe was more PC centric in the 80s.

 

Basically each new generation 3 or more companies vie for the top spot in each of 3 critical regions (NTSC Americas, NTSC Japan, PAL territories, withother markets receiving late release or leftovers) and someone ultimately lands on top.

 

In modern times, Sony Dominated Japan, microsoft and Sony were head to head in the Americas, and Nintendo is the wildcard. aside from Microsoft performing abysmally in Japan (why do they even waste effort marketing there?), pretty much releases concurrently on a global scale, not rolling launches in differing territories as yesteryear. A big reason why 8-bit PCs were so much more pupular in Europe I think had to do with PCs getting simultaneous release worldwide while consoles released first in Japan, then America, and lastly Europe and PAL territories. PCs beating consoles to market in Europe had something to do with that. Nowadays with frame rate issues essentially a thing of the past, Europe enjoys simultaneous releases with the rest of the world.

[Bubsy3000]

What happened to N64 in Asia actually adds up. You are ignoring Japan was a huge RPG market. N64 didn't have a lot of RPGs. Dragon Question and Final Fantasy always been huge hits in Japan and N64 not having a game from either franchise did hurt them a lot at the time. CD media at the time cost less than Cartridges did besides CDS storing more memory than a Cartridge can. RPGS in nature in nature costs a lot in cartridge form due to battery backup and a CD can make a game bigger than Cartridge can at the time.

 

N64 not being a disc based system really hurt Nintendo towards RPGS. N64 not being a disc based system was why Squaresoft went to Sony and Final Fantasy 7 became a huge hit.

 

N64 had Konami as a third party, but yet didn't have suikoden series unlike the Saturn and playstation one.

 

Capcom had Breath of Fire 3 for Playstation 1, but not on N64 due to N64 being a cartridge based system.

 

Atlus had games for the N64, but didn't bring the Megami Tensei franchise to the N64, unlike the Playstation and saturn. That was caused by N64 being a cartridge based system.

 

Enix released a couple games for N64, but no RPGS. That was by N64 being a cartridge system. Enix not doing any RPGS for the N64 was a huge problem.

 

Namco released N64 games, but didn't releases a Tales series game on the N64. That is a big deal cause the original Tales series game Tales of Phantasia was on the Super Nintendo.

But if it was only about Jrpgs why would the N64 still do as well as the Saturn?

 

Saturn had high rpg sales in japan, some even comparable to the PSX. In fact so called "strategy rpgs" were generally more more successful on the Satrun than the PSX with the biggest game on that being FF tactics.

 

It also seems despite selling on par with each other the N64 has 18 games with over 500k sold and the Saturn only has 7 games with over 500k sold. So it seems that the N64 even without the Rpgs got a higher attache rate than the Saturn.

 

FF and DQ are no question, you are right that those games did well over 3 million per entry for mainline games, and a big deal on the PSX, but whether that's the MAIN reason why the N64 failed in japan I'm not too sure.

 

I know japan also experienced the droughts but not sure if it was a bad as what we saw over here.

[Bubsy3000]

For comparison, Sega Genesis was a dud in Japan. SMS was a dud in the US but did great in Europe. Turbografx/PC Engine was wildly popular in Japan, a commercial failure in the US, and unheard of in Europe. Europe was more PC centric in the 80s.

 

Basically each new generation 3 or more companies vie for the top spot in each of 3 critical regions (NTSC Americas, NTSC Japan, PAL territories, withother markets receiving late release or leftovers) and someone ultimately lands on top.

 

In modern times, Sony Dominated Japan, microsoft and Sony were head to head in the Americas, and Nintendo is the wildcard. aside from Microsoft performing abysmally in Japan (why do they even waste effort marketing there?), pretty much releases concurrently on a global scale, not rolling launches in differing territories as yesteryear. A big reason why 8-bit PCs were so much more pupular in Europe I think had to do with PCs getting simultaneous release worldwide while consoles released first in Japan, then America, and lastly Europe and PAL territories. PCs beating consoles to market in Europe had something to do with that. Nowadays with frame rate issues essentially a thing of the past, Europe enjoys simultaneous releases with the rest of the world.

Actually Nintendo dominated japan in modern times.

 

It seems you do have a solid theory. I think a console manufacture needs to do well in two out of the 3 major gaming markets to win. The Xbox 360 proved you didn't need japan at all and that NA and parts of Europe alone can net you second place or even first place.

 

If the PS3 and 360 actually dropped their primary SKUS to $99 which they never did, they both might have passed the Wii outlier.

 

I think that as long as you get 2 out of 3 you'll likely be the champion for that round. Genesis had Europe and NA and was winning at first, but then fumbled and SNES took over NA giving SNES NA and Japan.

 

Of course this only applies if the competition is actually good, if it's something like the PS2 where the Dreamcast was killing itself and giving the PS2 an extra boost making the 1 year late start for the Gamecube and Xbox become major mistakes, then yeah PS2 was going to win regardless.

 

but if the competition is on point, at least one competitor minimum, then first to dominate two regions usually wins.

[derFunkenstein]

ACK-shooley the WiiU was a dud globally. The Switch had already outsold it in 18 months. Compared to the PS4, the WiiU sold poorly in Japan. 3.3M units lifetime for the Wii U (https://web.archive.org/web/20161026231748/https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1609.pdf) vs an estimated ~7M units for the PS4 SO FAR in the country. So ACK-shooley to say that Nintendo has "dominated Japan" in modern times is untrue.

[Bubsy3000]

ACK-shooley the WiiU was a dud globally. The Switch had already outsold it in 18 months. Compared to the PS4, the WiiU sold poorly in Japan. 3.3M units lifetime for the Wii U (https://web.archive.org/web/20161026231748/https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1609.pdf) vs an estimated ~7M units for the PS4 SO FAR in the country. So ACK-shooley to say that Nintendo has "dominated Japan" in modern times is untrue.

Now hold on a sec there, Wii U was ahead of the PS4 for quite some time before it passed it. It took the PS4 5 years to outsell the Wii U in Japan you know. Nintendo abandoning the Wii U in combinations with switching most focus into the 3DS until the "new console" launched, which ended up being switch, got PS4 to widen the gap against the Wii U substantially during 2017. So by saying "so far" you imply the PS4 recently launched relative to the Wii u and has been outselling it for awhile which isn't the case for japan.

 

So I'm not sure if it's the Wii U selling poorly rather than the PS4 having no competition and Nintendo abandoning the Wii U. But Nintendo pretty much had japan until they did. Switch had a release date right around when the PS4 passed the Wii U.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bubsy3000

[derFunkenstein]

If Nintendo was making money swelling it, they'd still be selling it. Sorry to ruin your narrative with reality.

[Bubsy3000]

If Nintendo was making money swelling it, they'd still be selling it. Sorry to ruin your narrative with reality.

You mean the reality that the PS4 took around 5 years to outsell the Wii U in japan and it was the last country to discontinue the system because it did well there?

 

Wii U was a flop pretty much everywhere, but Japan. But just because it wasn't a flop in Japan doesn't mean Japan made up for the losses everywhere else, they still had to replace the Wii U with the Switch for profits sake. It also wouldn't have made sense to have the Wii U and 3DS eat at Switch sales.

[derFunkenstein]

Don't be dense. The PS4 more than doubled up on the WiiU and the WiiU had a year head start. In January, Famitsu reported 5.8 million, which was the same amount of time as the WiiU was available and that's nearly 70% more consulted. In the same timeframe. It's not difficult to figure out.

[Bubsy3000]

Don't be dense. The PS4 more than doubled up on the WiiU and the WiiU had a year head start. In January, Famitsu reported 5.8 million, which was the same amount of time as the WiiU was available and that's nearly 70% more consulted. In the same timeframe. It's not difficult to figure out.

You can't spin that it took the PS4 years to catch the Wii U and that was only after Nintendo put focus on the 3DS, the new console announcement, and the removal of the Wii U from retail.

 

PS4 having 2017 mostly to itself with a bit of a fight given by the new Switch launch in 2017, greatly increased the PS4's numbers.

 

During Holiday 2016 the PS4 was less than 400k ahead. By august 2017 it was nearing 2 million ahead, and that was before 4th quarter 2017. That's the biggest gap the PS4 ever had compared to the Wii U.

 

You keep making it seem like the PS4 quickly outsold the Wii U, and your statement that the PS4 had doubled the Wii U "So far" continues to Imply that this is just the beginning when it's not even been 2 full years since the PS4 passed the Wii U.

 

The PS4 been selling much more than the Wii U RECENTLY because the WIi U stopped competing and the PS4 is effectively the only real home console in Japan. While the Switch is taking up some sales it's still mostly the Nintendo Handheld in Japan. PS4's only "competition" for home console in Japan is the Xbox One, who may as well not even be competing.

 

You can't explain away that most of the PS4 sales increases came after there was no competition. If the PS4 was always doing better it would have outsold the Wii U earlier or at least showed that it was doubling Wii U sales, many times in weekly MC/FM releases the Wii U was beating the PS4. Nintendo toning down the Wii U, and eventually abandoning it directly correlates with the PS4 sales having much bigger gains.

 

Also PS4 beating the Wii U with no competition doesn't excuse the fact it's still not selling that well, it's slightly behind the PS3. In 2017 with two months of Wii U stock selling at bargain prices for clearance in japan, and no other competition (outside a minimal bump for Xbox one month), PS4 sold less than 2 million in japan in 2017 or just hit that depending on which tracker you use.

 

As of Jan 2018 till Sept 2018, the PS4 has sold less than 1.3 million. The console market in Japan is still basically dead, it's just the PS4 is doing well relatively because there's no competition. No early Xbox 360 sales and no Wii outlier.

 

It's doing well in relation to the contracted market, absolutely, but let's not go crazy now. There's a reason PS4 launched in Japan late, and that was because the market is different from what it used to be.

[derFunkenstein]

So the console market is dead in Japan or Nintendo dominated the console market in Japan? It can't be both. You can't dominated what's not alive

[spacecadet]

Not-----Enough-----Japanese-Role-Playing-Games.

 

Yeah Japan is pretty easy to explain, and that's the explanation. Nintendo's cartridge strategy just did not pay off there at all, because all the RPG developers went with the PlayStation. (One or two went with the Saturn.) Every Dragon Quest game either tripled or almost quadrupled sales of the biggest selling N64 games, and that's just one series.

 

Europe, I dunno. Europe's tastes have always been ironically more difficult to explain than Japan's. Japan's sales of almost anything are usually down to just one or two simple things. But Europe is kind of all over the place, probably partly because it's not just one culture. I've seen console sales breakdowns by country in Europe and they are not even close most of the time, often even when the two countries are right next to each other. So you basically have to go country by country and looking at their own unique reasons for buying something; "Europe" is not really one market like a lot of people want to think.

 

I'd say Japan is easy and pretty consistent because it's a homogeneous culture; Europe is difficult and inconsistent for the opposite reason, and the US is somewhere in the middle.

[Bubsy3000]

So the console market is dead in Japan or Nintendo dominated the console market in Japan? It can't be both. You can't dominated what's not alive

You do know you made your own points irrelevant with this statement right?

 

Also yes for what was left, Nintendo did hold the crown, and then gave it up. I have no issue with Sony taking advantage of that and being given the win by default, the issue is you implying the PS4 doubled the Wii u sales because it did much better than it in japan. Which isn't the case.

 

But that was then. PS4 is currently the only relevant home console in Japan right now. I would say only entirely but the Xbox One does technically still exist there.

[derFunkenstein]

My point is that Nintendo Gant dominated in modern times and used the PS4 and the WiiU (and the WiiU's catastrophic sales without comparison) as an example of how Nintendo isn't dominating. My argument is valid.

[enoofu]

 

Yeah Japan is pretty easy to explain, and that's the explanation. Nintendo's cartridge strategy just did not pay off there at all, because all the RPG developers went with the PlayStation. (One or two went with the Saturn.) Every Dragon Quest game either tripled or almost quadrupled sales of the biggest selling N64 games, and that's just one series.

 

Europe, I dunno. Europe's tastes have always been ironically more difficult to explain than Japan's. Japan's sales of almost anything are usually down to just one or two simple things. But Europe is kind of all over the place, probably partly because it's not just one culture. I've seen console sales breakdowns by country in Europe and they are not even close most of the time, often even when the two countries are right next to each other. So you basically have to go country by country and looking at their own unique reasons for buying something; "Europe" is not really one market like a lot of people want to think.

 

I'd say Japan is easy and pretty consistent because it's a homogeneous culture; Europe is difficult and inconsistent for the opposite reason, and the US is somewhere in the middle.

N64 wasn't a system for either 2D style games or had Real Audio which other systems did well in like the PlayStation and the Saturn.

Also Japan has a big Arcade Game industry and at this time they were basically designed closer to the Saturn and PlayStation specs.

 

So this hurt other games genres outside of Jrpg's, including music games, shootem' up's, and fighting games.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Now hold on a sec there, Wii U was ahead of the PS4 for quite some time before it passed it. It took the PS4 5 years to outsell the Wii U in Japan you know. Nintendo abandoning the Wii U in combinations with switching most focus into the 3DS until the "new console" launched, which ended up being switch, got PS4 to widen the gap against the Wii U substantially during 2017. So by saying "so far" you imply the PS4 recently launched relative to the Wii u and has been outselling it for awhile which isn't the case for japan.

 

So I'm not sure if it's the Wii U selling poorly rather than the PS4 having no competition and Nintendo abandoning the Wii U. But Nintendo pretty much had japan until they did. Switch had a release date right around when the PS4 passed the Wii U.

The Switch year one sales outsold PS4 year one sales by quite a margin. That's all that's important moving forward. I was a day one supporter of Wii-U and a day one supporter of Switch. I regret neither. Possibly my one regret was buying a bunch of sealed Wii-U games after the announcement it would soon be discontinued, then rebuying them the following year for the Switch.

 

Wii-U was a good system if a bit misunderstood. Switch took eerything positive about the Wii-U, made it better, then took all the negatives and eliminated them. Off TV gameplay was an awesome concept. Off TV gameplay being limited to one room, not so much. Off TV gaming around the house, on the bus, at the park, awesome.

[Tanooki]

Wii-U was a good system if a bit misunderstood. Switch took eerything positive about the Wii-U, made it better, then took all the negatives and eliminated them. Off TV gameplay was an awesome concept. Off TV gameplay being limited to one room, not so much. Off TV gaming around the house, on the bus, at the park, awesome.

 

And far less clunky to hold. An OS that pops up instantly and does so between the menus too, not waiting 30-60+sec. Not backwards made internally in how games work and not with an absurdly Saturn-ish like hellish coding setup for it either unlike the Switch which uses the common console, mobile, and PC development engines and is a snap to port between it and others. The only thing it could really be dinged for in all fairness would be them sacrificing so much potential in handheld mode to preserve the battery, it could have been given a slider perhaps like 3DS does to extend the juice a bit (brightness, powersave modes.)

[high voltage]

PS