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XF551 Mixed-Original Parts Bare PCBs


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#26 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:43 AM

Board order went out this morning.  Delivery to me should be in about 10 days.  Mailout to those who purchased should happen within a day or two of that. 

 

Currently I should have two left of the 10 board order. 

 

I am allowing backordering of this product.  But remember I need to presell at least four boards per order to cover the board and shipping costs from china. 



#27 Marius OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:33 AM

I never said that any of my reimaged XF551 boards were 1:1 copies.  They are not and never were.  

 

Oh probably you didn't indeed. But you offered two types of boards back then. 1. A completely re-designed board, using a different type of power supply. and 2. A board that -for the naked eye- looked like a 1:1 copy of the original xf551 board. I can not remember what is said or written, but I still think it wasn't so weird that I expected the second board to be a 1:1 copy. Why would one create TWO boards with a re-design? For me as an end-user it maked pretty much sense: one re-design, one original board.

 

The reason I bring it up, is not to blame you or to have some kind of argument about this. The reason is to prevent myself from buying another pcb which is not what I expect it to be. And now I know that it is again not a 1:1 copy, I skip this one.


Edited by ProWizard, Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:35 AM.


#28 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:40 AM

Oh probably you didn't indeed. But you offered two types of boards back then. 1. A completely re-designed board, using a different type of power supply. and 2. A board that -for the naked eye- looked like a 1:1 copy of the original xf551 board. I can not remember what is said or written, but I still think it wasn't so weird that I expected the second board to be a 1:1 copy. Why would one create TWO boards with a re-design? For me as an end-user it maked pretty much sense: one re-design, one original board.

The reason I bring it up, is not to blame you or to have some kind of argument about this. The reason is to prevent myself from buying another pcb which is not what I expect it to be. And now I know that it is again not a 1:1 copy, I skip this one.



Unfortunately that is the power and problem of assumption.  :(
 
Why would you need the earlier boards or this one to be a  '1:1 copy'?  Atari didn't exactly publish any schematics or parts list for the XF551.  And no 3rd party did either.  Some parts on the original board had no determinable part #.  In fact there are at least 3 different versions of the original XF551 pcb, as corrections were made and some initial parts used were changed. Exactly which pcb was I supposed to do a 1:1 copy of?  

I'm not trying to argue with you either.   I just have no earthly idea why you have such an excessive need for 100% 1:1 copy.   A 1:1 copy gets you a crappy one sided oversized pcb with only the ability to use 30+ year old parts.  It doesn't indicate a functionally identical board will not work just as good or better.  I understand the desire to reuse if possible expensive parts such as the switch, SIO connectors, the oscillator the 8040 and WD1772 chips etc.  But old parts have a much higher chance of failure and trying to save a few dollars by not replacing a cheap part is not a wise move.  Especially if that part takes out more expensive parts when it fails. 
 
I feel you are implying that since it's not a 1:1 copy, that there's something inherently wrong with it.  Your comments read to me like a virtual drive by shooting.  Maybe that wasn't your intent, but you planted a seed of doubt in other people's mind and passed judgement on this board without any truth or proof.
 
You have a right to your opinion.  You have a right to express it within reason in this forum.   But don't pass judgement without actual experience with this board. 
 
I know I'm ranting. And I hate it. :(  

 

Have a good day regardless.
 
 
 
 



#29 mytek ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:52 AM

One rant a day keeps the naysayers away  :) .

 

Well maybe not  ;) .

 

So I just noticed the smaller sockets within the footprint of the larger ones. What's that all about? I know I'm being lazy and not reading the spec.



#30 bob1200xl OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:45 PM

You mount the logic chips under the LSI chips, which plug into sockets. The logic chips get soldered directly into the PCB.

 

Right?

 

Bob



#31 Marius OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:47 PM

Unfortunately that is the power and problem of assumption.  :(
 
Why would you need the earlier boards or this one to be a  '1:1 copy'?  Atari didn't exactly publish any schematics or parts list for the XF551.  And no 3rd party did either.  Some parts on the original board had no determinable part #.  In fact there are at least 3 different versions of the original XF551 pcb, as corrections were made and some initial parts used were changed. Exactly which pcb was I supposed to do a 1:1 copy of?  

I'm not trying to argue with you either.   I just have no earthly idea why you have such an excessive need for 100% 1:1 copy.   A 1:1 copy gets you a crappy one sided oversized pcb with only the ability to use 30+ year old parts.  It doesn't indicate a functionally identical board will not work just as good or better.  I understand the desire to reuse if possible expensive parts such as the switch, SIO connectors, the oscillator the 8040 and WD1772 chips etc.  But old parts have a much higher chance of failure and trying to save a few dollars by not replacing a cheap part is not a wise move.  Especially if that part takes out more expensive parts when it fails. 
 
I feel you are implying that since it's not a 1:1 copy, that there's something inherently wrong with it.  Your comments read to me like a virtual drive by shooting.  Maybe that wasn't your intent, but you planted a seed of doubt in other people's mind and passed judgement on this board without any truth or proof.
 
You have a right to your opinion.  You have a right to express it within reason in this forum.   But don't pass judgement without actual experience with this board. 
 
I know I'm ranting. And I hate it. :(  
 
Have a good day regardless.


Well two things: I found email conversations from 2015 in where you are referring to the second board as the ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY BOARD which obviously did feed my 'assumption' that I was buying a 1:1 version of the pcb. Using words like ORIGINAL do create confusion like this one. You know exactly what you were selling so for you everything was as clear as possible but obviously it was not for me as I tried to explain in this thread in a few ways now.

And to be honest. Yes. I think you proved with your failing boards that redesigning something that originally worked (the real ORIGINAL Atari xf551 pcb DOES work) adds risks. Why redesign something that actually works the way it should? The reasons that there were eventually issues with the real ORIGINAL board were mainly because of bad pcb quality and not because of design flaws.

You seem to forget that customers and end users might have a different point of view compared to sellers and creators. I want 1:1 copy simply because I know that that works... but only needs to be rebuild because the ORIGINAL Atari board is bad quality.

I am not saying that your boards are wrong. I am implying that a redesigned board likely can or might have unexpected flaws.

Edited by ProWizard, Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:39 PM.


#32 Marius OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:55 PM

And one thing... planting a seed in some people's mind? Come on. Isn't a forum to exchange thoughts and ideas? Have I a speak-restriction or so? I speak from experience with your previous boards, which wasn't the best experience. You are offering something for sale, and I simply ask a question. A question based on the previous expressed not so good experience. If you can not handle that, perhaps you shouldn't expose your stuff on a public forum...



#33 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:34 PM

Atari didn't exactly publish any schematics or parts list for the XF551.  And no 3rd party did either.


I have a schematic here drawn by Mariusz Geisler in 1993, although I guess the provenance is not known. If you didn't work from a schematic, I'm wondering did you basically reverse engineer the existing board. If so, which revision did you decide to use?

#34 kheller2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:10 PM

Well two things: I found email conversations from 2015 in where you are referring to the second board as the ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY BOARD which obviously did feed my 'assumption' that I was buying a 1:1 version of the pcb. Using words like ORIGINAL do create confusion like this one. You know exactly what you were selling so for you everything was as clear as possible but obviously it was not for me as I tried to explain in this thread in a few ways now.

And to be honest. Yes. I think you proved with your failing boards that redesigning something that originally worked (the real ORIGINAL Atari xf551 pcb DOES work) adds risks. Why redesign something that actually works the way it should? The reasons that there were eventually issues with the real ORIGINAL board were mainly because of bad pcb quality and not because of design flaws.

You seem to forget that customers and end users might have a different point of view compared to sellers and creators. I want 1:1 copy simply because I know that that works... but only needs to be rebuild because the ORIGINAL Atari board is bad quality.

I am not saying that your boards are wrong. I am implying that a redesigned board likely can or might have unexpected flaws.

 

 

OK, I'm having a bad office day and running low on coffee so I'll nitpick..  :grin:

"ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY BOARD:" "Original" is an adjective describing "Power Supply".  There were two board types.. one that required a newer power supply and one the could be used with the original XF power supply.  Done..

It was also mentioned that some things changed because said parts were no longer made or hard to get.  What you are asking for is a high quality through hole re-designed board that is 100% logically equivalent and uses all original parts.  To which I would ask, which XF board do you consider original.. as there are multiple ones (let alone multiple mechs which acted very differently).

Thank goodness we aren't talking about the 1050.. because that opens up a whole new can of worms as to what original means. 

 

To me its simple: Do you want a newer floppy drive that can use the XF ROM, fit in the XF case, and function the same from the computer POV? yes? Buy this board.

 

Its a shame the XF plastics aren't readily available.. because using this board, with a Hyper XF rom and any really good mech would make a great drive.



#35 Marius OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:05 PM

"ORIGINAL POWER SUPPLY BOARD:" "Original" is an adjective describing "Power Supply".  There were two board types.. one that required a newer power supply and one the could be used with the original XF power supply.  Done..

 

Okay, let me explain it one more (and I hope LAST) time. I do try (but obviously fail) to explain where the confusion on my side came from. I am not telling that Dropcheck said it was a 100% 1:1 copy. I explain every time why I (Me, Prowizard) was confused. I'm not a native English speaker. I explain why I got confused:

1. because in 2014/2015 or so there existed two versions of the boards: one looked complete different, the other one looked (almost) equal to the original (to the naked eye there were no differences).

 

2. One had the word MODERN in it, the other the word ORIGINAL. So that is the explanation why I thought there was one RE-designed, and one original 100% 1:1 copy. Since I am not a native English speaker, it probably was not completely clear to me where that original referred to. Combine 1 and 2 and you understand how my thoughts went.

 

This is how her webshop looked in 2014:

Screenshot 2018-10-24 at 23.19.22.png

 

I guess everybody here understand why I thought that the RIGHT one, was a 1:1 copy of the original, and working XF551 board. 

 

I am not attacking her, I was simply asking whether this new batch of PCB's is a 1:1 copy or not. Is that wrong? I spent some serious money in the past on these boards, and it was not a big success.  

 

But between the lines Dropcheck feels an attack or judgement from me, and then I explain that -indeed- I had some serious issues with her redesigned boards, so that explains why I have doubts about a re-designed board. Is that really so strange? Try to move yourself in my position. 

 

There is no need to start nitpicking or whatever. I already regret that I asked it in the first place, obviously it is not the right place to be serious or to ask critical questions. Obviously someone who asks serious, but critical questions is suspicious. 


Edited by ProWizard, Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:21 PM.


#36 kheller2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:10 PM

 

Okay, let me explain it one more (and I hope LAST) time. I do try (but obviously fail) to explain where the confusion on my side came from. I am not telling that Dropcheck said it was a 100% 1:1 copy. I explain every time why I (Me, Prowizard) was confused. I'm not a native English speaker. I explain why I got confused:
 

...

I guess everybody here understand why I thought that the RIGHT one, was a 1:1 copy of the original, and working XF551 board. 

 

...

 

 

I don't think anyone is directly upset with you at all, and I completely understand the language barrier issue.  I think some people, including myself, might have taken issue with the way you had worded things:

 

"I once bought boards from you, which in the end turned out not being such a wonderful deal as I once hoped. [deleted stuff] (The re-make board did work finally, but the so called original board never worked at all). Is this board a 1:1 remake, or did you change things to the original board again?"

 

​This comes across very negative.  It would have been a bit more proper to have discussed the issues you had with those boards in the original threads for them when they were originally purchased.  

 

I for one am very excited to have a new bare board to work with.

 



#37 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:36 PM

You want negative? Take a walk with me around the 'hood....  you are gonna get some real input from folks whether you want it or not :)

 

Our community is super protective of anyone or anything that gets produced. A number of folks doing these projects are very sensitive people as well. So we end up seeing all kinds of skirmishes. I don't think there were any personal attacks and I certainly don't want to go looking back into the thread to find them. Hey I'm a sensitive guy too!

 

So I'd call out to whoever wants to produce a beefed up 1:1 board to do so. I'd love to see all those XF 551's come off the side lines. This would be the way to do it.


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:41 PM.


#38 kheller2 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:05 PM

 

 

So I'd call out to whoever wants to produce a beefed up 1:1 board to do so. I'd love to see all those XF 551's come off the side lines. This would be the way to do it.

 

 

I should know better than to respond.. but its in my nature to go down rabbit holes...

 

What practical purpose would a beefed up 1:1 board serve?  It can't really be 1:1 if you are gonna double side the board to begin with and then you might as well then re-layout the traces and component locations to make it smaller and cheaper to produce.  And that seems to be exactly what this is...  it uses a lot of the parts from the existing Atari board already. Its logically identical to the production XF board.

 

If we dare to dream, then I would want a newer 1050 board .. condensed down with modern components... and if we are going that route, just scrap the 1050 altogether and give me a XF board that fits in a 1050 shell with all ports lined up.  Sleeper 1050s are so sweet.



#39 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:21 PM

RELIABILITY AND COST AS WELL AS KEEPING AS ORIGINAL AS POSSIBLE?

No you don't get it,  some people just want the same board same layout with better quality traces that's all. no breaks or cracks, exactly the way it was laid out using all the old parts from the original with some meat on it. Transplant 1 for 1. Since I can move all the parts without destroying them, just about anyone can. I am not anything special when it comes to soldering or de-soldering...

Reliable restoration is kind of a thing for some...  re imagined or some what re created is not what some folks go for. (at least not without darn compelling and required reasoning)

What's wrong with a choice? I like choices!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:27 PM.


#40 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:57 PM

OK - no negative (ill) will was considered from either party.   We tend to forget, in this day of the internet, that not every post comes from a guy (holy shit, guy, or girl, or whatever 1 of 50 genders we must accept) two cubes over from you.  The entire planet, is literally a key-click away.  Now, I certainly cannot speak.type a single word that != English.  I can also seek that it is not at all fair, to expect the entire Atari community to be, native English speakers.

 

Let's maybe be, a bit more sensitive in these matters, moving forwards.  After all, no matter where we ended up on this planet by chance, we all agree, Atari 8-bit stuff is uber cool.

 


#41 mytek ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:00 PM

Just something to keep in mind... single layer PCB's are inherently weaker due to not having plated thru holes (pads are only present on one side). So to duplicate the original single layer XF551 would in my opinion be a mistake. It really needs to be dual layer to maximize strength, especially where connectors are concerned. And if you got 2 layers why the heck would you want to use jumpers instead of taking advantage of the extra traces that the 2nd layer allows? Reproduction accuracy? Hmm... interesting.

 

Anyway it is what it is, and dropcheck's boards are all you're going to get unless someone that doesn't like it produces something newer  ;) . BTW, with today's free PCB layout tools there's nothing stopping someone from doing just that, assuming they stop wasting time wishing and start doing instead  :) .

 

EDIT: just to add to that last part. If all you want to have is a new board that looks identical to whatever original rev you like best, then reproducing it in a free PCB layout editor doesn't require any knowledge what-so-ever of electronics or how any of it works. You just need to be good at copying  ;) . So no excuses allowed.



#42 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:23 PM

what part of making stronger/beefing up doesn't translate here... and who cares who makes it.. a simple observance of what a person asks for or what was thought about it as opposed to what 'is' of course has to turn into a sh*t sh*w...

 

What's the harm in folks asking for those who can do such things in their sleep whom already possess everything needed to do it, and have the least expensive connections and and suppliers all mapped out.

 

So get out there, your just as good at slam dunks as all the NBA guys on the dream team and win the Olympics! Build that bridge yourself! after all with computer coaches and cad cam anybody can do it. No excuses allowed. God forbid those two guys pointed out their experience. or described what they thought or wanted.

 

Shame on those of us who thought it was a good idea as well. Yep a 1:1 replacement board being brought up to strong beefy standards with thicker traces and plated through holes would surely suck for anyone who wanted to move all the components directly and easily from the old board to the new board and have a like new drive that will last and is true to the original.

 

Indeed.

 

I don't see anything wrong with anyone pointing out what went wrong or what they thought or what experience they had. In my humble opinion I wish more people would do so. I also saw nothing wrong with them expressing what they thought they were getting and explaining what they wanted. I in fact agreed with that approach and still do. It's fine. I also believe asking if anyone would be willing to make the better board isn't beyond the pale. Making a BS argument that they should in fact have done it themselves or should do it themselves kind of kills the idea that anybody should be in business doing this stuff.

      If they are happy to ask for an experienced person to do it for them and PAY for it. Why would you deny either party the chance to do so? . .

 

This diatribe brought to you by the 'There we go again' group and is not necessarily the view or opinion of the textual deliverer of said content. :)  Party on dudes! Be excellent to one another!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:47 PM.


#43 oracle_jedi OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:38 AM

 

I guess everybody here understand why I thought that the RIGHT one, was a 1:1 copy of the original, and working XF551 board. 

 

 

No not really.

 

I am not a hardware guy at all.  Yet even I could tell from a simple glance at the image that the "Reimaged XF551 Original Disk Drive Controller v2.0" was a dual layer PCB with traces on both sides, whereas the stock XF551 controller board was single sided.  

 

It simply made no sense that this new dual sided design would be an exact replica of the layout of the stock item.

 

Furthermore, a review of the text of the entry on Dropcheck's website from time states:

 

"Two years ago I started playing around with the idea of redoing the controller board.  I wanted to correct some of the design failures and hopefully add additional features.  Fast forward to today and I now have a finished product.   It reduces the size of the original board, while using an industry standard double sided pcb.  It also incorporates an easy method to switch between two OS by using a SPDT toggle switch connected to the OS header.  Mod board connectors built in allow upgrading to a daughter board allowing numerous additional features.  An internal SIO header provides future internal upgrades.  Best of all it can simply function as a dropin replacement for the original controller board."

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Furthermore I will state that I own one of these "Reimaged XF551 Original Disk Drive Controller v2.0" boards and have it in my 3.5 modded XF551.  It has worked flawlessly from day 1, reading, writing and formatting without error.  I know Dropcheck advised us that some units were not working as expected and offered fast and simple remedies.  

 

So even if this new design turns out to have some flaw I have no doubt she will continue to support her work 100%, and the fact that this new design is not a xerox copy of the stock XF551 controller board is no reason to reject it as a suitable basis on which to repair an otherwise useless XF551 drives.

 

Original website as of Dec 2015 for reference:

 

https://web.archive....al-power-supply

 

Graham



#44 Marius OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:45 AM

 

No not really.

 

I am not a hardware guy at all.  Yet even I could tell from a simple glance at the image that the "Reimaged XF551 Original Disk Drive Controller v2.0" was a dual layer PCB with traces on both sides, whereas the stock XF551 controller board was single sided.  

 

It simply made no sense that this new dual sided design would be an exact replica of the layout of the stock item.

 

Furthermore, a review of the text of the entry on Dropcheck's website from time states:

 

"Two years ago I started playing around with the idea of redoing the controller board.  I wanted to correct some of the design failures and hopefully add additional features.  Fast forward to today and I now have a finished product.   It reduces the size of the original board, while using an industry standard double sided pcb.  It also incorporates an easy method to switch between two OS by using a SPDT toggle switch connected to the OS header.  Mod board connectors built in allow upgrading to a daughter board allowing numerous additional features.  An internal SIO header provides future internal upgrades.  Best of all it can simply function as a dropin replacement for the original controller board."

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Furthermore I will state that I own one of these "Reimaged XF551 Original Disk Drive Controller v2.0" boards and have it in my 3.5 modded XF551.  It has worked flawlessly from day 1, reading, writing and formatting without error.  I know Dropcheck advised us that some units were not working as expected and offered fast and simple remedies.  

 

So even if this new design turns out to have some flaw I have no doubt she will continue to support her work 100%, and the fact that this new design is not a xerox copy of the stock XF551 controller board is no reason to reject it as a suitable basis on which to repair an otherwise useless XF551 drives.

 

Original website as of Dec 2015 for reference:

 

https://web.archive....al-power-supply

 

Graham

 

The fact that it was very clear to you, doesn't by default prove that it was very clear to me. (That is exact the point I try to make all the time)

 

Why do you ignore the fact that in most of my posts here in this thread, I try to explain why it was unclear to me, why I got confused. The only thing you are doing with your post is repeating and proving (again) how stupid I (Prowizard) was that I was not able to see that this isn't a 100% copy.

 

Sorry, but I really did not see that in 2014/2015. I remember that I was absolutely convinced that I was ordering an original board. I really was thrilled to see it. My conclusion was: there is a re-designed board, and an original board. I wouldn't have bought it at the first place, if I was not convinced I bought an ORIGINAL remake. That is how I thought. You obviously wouldn't think that way, but I did. And I still can understand why, although you have made your point very clear how stupid that was from me. Thanks for that. Afterwards I see my mistake. I already wrote that in other posts. But you seem not to want to see why I got confused. It is really not THAT stupid that I made a mistake. 

 

A few thing by the way to take in mind:

 

1. You live in NTSC land, I in PAL land. So you want to prove to me that the boards are ok since your board worked fine from day 1, while you are using 60Hz AC power and I use 50Hz AC power? If you do not want to prove anything, what is then the need of telling me that YOUR board worked fine from day 1? 

 

2. You're trying to prove that the board was ok, while you are using it in a modded (3.5"!) xf551? So the fact that it works well in your NOT ORIGINAL 3.5" XF551 should prove that Dropcheck did the design right and that I have no ground to be critical? If you do not want to prove this, again ... what is the reason you are bringing this up? It is completely useless in this debate.

 

3. And why did you leave out the most important part in your citation of the website? Let me add it here, and please look at the part I emphasized.

 

"The original Atari XF551 Floppy Disk Drive came to market in 1988 to little fanfare.   It was backward compatible with previous Atari DOS versions,  but added the ability to read and write double density and double sided disks through the new DOS XE , sported the new XE color line and used an industry standard  360k floppy drive.   It also was cheaply made, using a controller board that was little more than single sided perf board and a poorly done power supply that barely provided enough power.   Most problems can be traced to the breaking of traces on the power switch and input jack or SIO connectors.  Sadly the drive came at the last years of Atari’s 8bit reign.  Sales never approached that of the 810, much less the 1050."

 

So the "I WANTED TO CORRECT SOME OF THE DESIGN FAILURES" was -for me as a reader- referring to that part I emphasized. I thought: ah you corrected those design failures, like bad traces and all. My fault is that I did not understand all of the text and indeed I should have asked more clarification. For me though it was crystal clear what the improvements had to be. I was wrong, my fault, my confusion.

 

But like I wrote already, the fact that the replacement board did not work, is exactly the reason why I asked the question in my first post in this thread. If you correct something, but it turns out that exactly that correction means that the board does *not* function properly, why did you " improve" it in the first place? How well did you test it? That is exactly why I asked whether can I expect these NEW boards to work properly. I would say, at least in my XF551's the original power-circuit worked perfect, so I'd say: keep that circuit 1:1 100% te same. So why can't I ask a question about that about the boards offered this time?

 

To me this is a legitimate question? 

 

Indeed Dropcheck offered repairment and replacement. She offered the right aftersales support. There was nothing wrong with that. I never wrote here that that part of her shop is bad. She is a good person, but still ... A good person can be asked questions too you know.

 

And that is exact the problem with threads like this one. I simply asked a question. Kheller2 explained that my initial response came across VERY NEGATIVE. I don't see that. I can understand that people might have questions about my early experience, and I can understand that perhaps this question did not fit entirely well in this thread. Okay admitted.  But I still think it is a language-thing. I honestly was interested in this new PCB offered/discussed in this thread, but I had a bad experience in the past, so I asked a question about it. That was ALL. Nothing more, nothing less. 

 

But I think that everything that needs to be said, is said about it. 

What more can I say? Yes I got confused, and for me it is clear why, to others it is obviously not so understandable that I got confused. Why do I have to defend my confusion? Is there something logical about getting confused; most of the time confusion is not logical duh. 

 

I explained that when people start using the word ORIGINAL in their webshop, it feeds (at least my) confusion that the buyer is buying an original board. I understand -NOW- that it was NOT an original board. That is all. I am not even blaming Dropcheck for this; thanks to all some responses here I start to entirely blame myself. Thanks!

 

Yes I had a bad experience with Dropcheck previous XF551 boards, other people here perhaps not. 

Still I am interested in replacement boards, but I have a certain (fixed) idea what I'm looking for (the 1:1 100% copy, but better quality) 

So this time I wanted to be 100% sure  that I would not order something that does not match my own (fixed) idea. I did not want to repeat myself getting confused again. I was careful not making my own mistake again. That is why I did ask a question. And then the thread exploded? 

 

And that's all folks. 

I think we should move on here. 

 

I wish dropcheck all the luck in the world with her new boards. And I really feel sorry that this thread derailed about this. 

Greetz,

ProWizard


Edited by ProWizard, Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:49 AM.


#45 mytek ONLINE  

mytek

    River Patroller

  • 3,409 posts
  • Location:Santa Rosa, CA

Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:29 AM

I think we should move on here. 

 

I wish dropcheck all the luck in the world with her new boards. And I really feel sorry that this thread derailed about this. 

Greetz,

ProWizard

 

Yep probably a good idea. If people want to discuss further the possibility of other potential board versions, it really deserves a separate topic be started. After all this topic started by Dropcheck was essentially suppose to be...

  • There is a single already developed XF551 alternative board for sale.
  • Pre-orders are being collected.
  • If there is enough interest for at least 10 more, a small run of the same can be manufactured.

Did I get that right?  :)



#46 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

_The Doctor__

    Flux Capacitor Master Craftsman

  • 6,930 posts
  • Location:10-0-11-00:02

Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:52 AM

It would be cool to be able to break spin off thread out from the main thread... there used to be system that followed quoting to do so. Ended up a mess, so hand moving is still the only way to clean up and separate things into two threads.. It is indeed the preferred choice here. But requires a bit of work to do so...



#47 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

flashjazzcat

    Quadrunner

  • 14,587 posts
  • Location:United Kingdom

Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:51 AM

Ask admin. They cleaned up the funkheld mess.

#48 Brentarian OFFLINE  

Brentarian

    Moonsweeper

  • 479 posts
  • Location:Columbus, Georgia USA

Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:28 PM

Hi Dropcheck,
Looks like I missed out on this run. If you produce any more please put me down for at least 2 (maybe 3).
Thanks!

#49 kheller2 OFFLINE  

kheller2

    Stargunner

  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:PA, USA

Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:06 PM

Hi Dropcheck,
Looks like I missed out on this run. If you produce any more please put me down for at least 2 (maybe 3).
Thanks!

 

Place an order right here: https://www.bitsofth...loppy-drive-pcb



#50 Dropcheck OFFLINE  

Dropcheck

    Stargunner

  • Topic Starter
  • 1,459 posts
  • Location:Stigler, OK

Posted Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:47 PM

Okay.....

 

Let me say this and then I think it's time to move on......

 

I am sensitive about something I've put a lot of time, energy and money into.  I care about the quality of my work.  I try to be as specific as possible when describing that something. 

.

Unfortunately I also get tired, I misunderstand, I put 2 and 2 together and get 5.  In short I'm human. :(

 

The definition of 100% 1:1 copy means something different to everyone it seems.  :?

 

To me it means a copy that is for all microscopic purposes indistinguishable from the original, warts and all.  Anything else is a modified copy.

 

All the XF551 boards I've made are modified copies. 

 

The 'Original' word used described the type of power supply, in this case referred to the power supply that came on the original Atari XF551 unit.  It allowed you to use the original AC power adapter used for the 1050 and XF551 drives.  The other version of the board I offered had a modern IC based power supply requiring the user to purchase a DC power adapter.  That's where the 'Modern' word came from. 

 

Version 1 of the original power suppy XF551 is the only board with the power circuit flaw.  That flaw was corrected in the next run of boards I made.  I've not received any indication of problems from more than thirty additional sales.  This version I am currently offering incorporates the correction.

 

 I've only seen one version of the XF551 board and I currently have four complete drives, but Igor Gramblicka has blogged on his site of seeing at least two others, including at least one he owns and another that a friend sent him pictures of.  I purchased a prototype schematic sheet from Best Electronics some years ago.  The sheet was never officially released by Atari and is stamped as being a prototype schematic.  I have no idea which version it refers too.   Between the schematic, Gus Assmman's prototype and signal tracing my own XF551 board I was able to develop both original and modern power supply copy versions

 

Fast forward to this version of the XF551 Floppy Disk Drive pcb.  It is a modified copy that seeks to allow as many of the original parts to be used as possible.  Again I caution you not to reuse any of the transistors, resistors, diodes or the small caps.  Those items are so cheap that it just doesn't make sense to try to reuse them.  You can do it.  You can do it. But why risk it?  You will have to purchase the bridge rectifier and some additional IC sockets anyway. 

 

I design boards with a few overall things in mind.

 

1. How big does it need to be to hold the parts it needs to hold or fit the space it has to fit.  Smaller is less cost for manufacturing and shipping.

2. Try for through hole if possible to save what eye sight I still have and keep the stress level down when I am assembling these boards

3. Do I have to use original parts? If not use new parts to increase the life span of the unit.

4. Are there additional features I can add and does it make economic sense to do so.

5. When possible do not stack chips, though sometimes that makes some sense in routing and keeping the board uncluttered,

6. What is the sweet price point that the majority of Atari users will buy at and I can cover my costs and get at least a dollar per hour for my time.

 

There are other more technical and non-technical criteria as well.   

 

It's okay to make suggestions, and I have been known to incorporate some.  But everything is a trade-off and a compromise and ultimately I am the one that decides what is the best fit for the individual projects I do. Hopefully those choices are acceptable.  ;-)

 

You always have the option to hire someone to do the work for you or take the time and effort and money to do it yourself.  It is satisfying hobby work.  ;-)

 

Pro-Wizard, I bury the hatchet if you do. ;-)

 

Everyone have a good evening. ;-)






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