(Newbie) Starting with kryoflux -- need some infos (a8rawconv etc...)

[mcc]

Hi,

 

I want to backup my 5.25" disks, which all were written with a ATARI 810 disk station and were partly "flippy" with my kryoflux.

I am using Linux and only Linux.

With my kryoflux I am using a Panasonic JU-475-4 A49 drive, which is currently not modified.

 

From searching the forum I found the options to be used for non-flippy and flippy disks.

 

But what currently make my head ache is a program called "a8rawconv".

The newest version I could found a8rawconv-weaktest.

For that I have two questions:

 

Are there any newer versions I possibly missed?

I only found an *.sln file for Microsoft Visual Studio, which is Windows only.

Are there any build instructions/executable for Linux available?

 

A last question:

Are there any drives avaliable, which are already flippy-modded?

 

Thank you very much in advance for any help!

Cheers!

mcc

 

 

[Gunstar]

Use a hole puncher to make a notch for the backside of your disks and ALL drives are "flippy" drives. It's all you need...

[_The Doctor__]

well for kryo you could hole punch the index holes on the opposite sides of the hub jacket. or use an index faker/duplicator circuit.

[Gunstar]

Yeah, I'm just not sure that it matters if disks are flippies or not with any backup solution; you copy a side, you flip it, you copy that side. I was just pointing out the ease of a "flippy disk system" regardless of back-up hardware or software or even the drive. I guess I just don't see a flipable disk being any special case in anyway concerning preserving the disks. But then I've never used Kryo, but I can't see any hardware having any advantage over another regarding "flippies" unless you don't have to flip the disk, but that's a two-sided drive that's needed, not backup hardware...

Edited November 19, 2018 by Gunstar

[Fred_M]

@Gunstar

 

"Modern" PC floppy drives use the index hole of a disk to determine the speed. So flipping a disk like we did with an 810 or 1050 will not work with Kryoflux and the Panasonic drive. That's why The Doctor is suggesting to create a second index hole

 

The XF551 had a similar problem. It was possible to flip the disk to read the backside, but writing to the backside was only possible in dual side format (incompatible with 810 and 1050) or by flipping the disk and create a second index hole.

 

More info here: https://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3&p=1991#p1991

Edited November 19, 2018 by Fred_M

[Gunstar]

[ijor]

I want to backup my 5.25" disks, which all were written with a ATARI 810 disk station and were partly "flippy" with my kryoflux.

...

But what currently make my head ache is a program called "a8rawconv".

...

Are there any drives avaliable, which are already flippy-modded?

 

You don't need a8rawconv for reading home made disks. Kryoflux software should be able to make Atari disk images directly.

 

I doubt you will be able to find drives already modded for reading the flippy side. You have several options. Besides those that were mentioned already, you can get an Atari drive and a SIO2PC cable. And if they aren't so many disks, you might find somebody nearby that would dumps the disks for you.

 

The XF551 had a similar problem. It was possible to flip the disk to read the backside, but writing to the backside was only possible in dual side format (incompatible with 810 and 1050) or by flipping the disk and create a second index hole.

 

Not exactly. See this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/138304-cant-flip-disk-on-xf551/

 

More info here: https://forum.kryoflux.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3&p=1991#p1991

 

That FAQ is not accurate. There are many PC 5.25 drives that do can read flippy disks, including of course the Mitsumi drive that Atari used in most XF-551 units. But the Kryoflux doesn't support (or at least it didn't last time I checked) this method of dumping without receiving an Index pulse. The SCP does.

Edited November 19, 2018 by ijor

[Fred_M]

Not exactly. See this: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/138304-cant-flip-disk-on-xf551/

 

 

Please read the post by CharlieChaplin in that topic http://atariage.com/forums/topic/138304-cant-flip-disk-on-xf551/?do=findComment&comment=1670337

 

My XF551 has a Mitsumi drive It is able to read the backside of the floppy. A second index hole was needed to format the backside

 

The first years I used the "Indexloch Umgehung" by Merlin that simulates the index hole. A few years later I fitted the XF speedy in my drive

Edited November 19, 2018 by Fred_M

[_The Doctor__]

I've already taken a disk and separated the the edge of the sleeve, pulled the mylar media out and flipped it over... put it back in and did what I wanted that way.... so many choices... like I mentioned in my post index pulse faker (re director if you will) etc etc. punch index holes... etc all.... I wish kryo was updated to be able to tolerate no index like scp but who can say... one day rabbit...

Edited November 19, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[ijor]

The XF551 had a similar problem. It was possible to flip the disk to read the backside, but writing to the backside was only possible in dual side format (incompatible with 810 and 1050) or by flipping the disk and create a second index hole.

My XF551 has a Mitsumi drive It is able to read the backside of the floppy. A second index hole was needed to format the backside

And that's precisely why I said "NOT EXACTLY" (I didn't say you were completely wrong). On your first post you said that you need a second index hole to write to the flippy side, but as you are saying now, the second index hole is needed only to format the disk as flippy, not to write to it.

 

Edit: Sorry if I sounded like I was nitpicking, that wasn't my intention. I just pointed to a more accurate and complete description of the problem.

Edited November 19, 2018 by ijor

[_The Doctor__]

Still brings us to the point.. for Kryo, it wants an index pulse so you either fake/redirect or make index holes or flip the media in it's jacket. etc etc. or use super card pro... grrrr make new kryo II lol

[ijor]

I wish kryo was updated to be able to tolerate no index like scp but who can say... one day rabbit...

 

It's just an issue of software (and firmware in the worst case), no need to make any modification of the hardware. But do note that this doesn't work on every PC drive. Some drives require the index pulse themselves, or they don't become ready and they don't transmit any data whatsoever. According to my experience, typically most older DD (40 tracks) drives do work with flippies, most newer HD (80 tracks) drives do not. In some cases it depends on the setting of the dip switches.

[_The Doctor__]

Yeah, I avoid the newer 80 track drives like the plague

[mcc]

Hi,

 

oh yeah! Thanks a lot for all the posts and infos!

 

My "problem" currently is:

Due to limited equipment and space and limited skill in mechanical things like pushing bushing down a

plastic tube and not breaking the complete head assembly combined with the VERY limited possibilities

of getting a suitable 5.25" floppy drive AT ALL....

...I would like to check whether my hope of reading and saving my 5.25" floppies at all ... or whether they

have lost their magnetical memory beyond readability.

 

Currently I have an unaltered, unmodified Panasonic JU-475-4 A49 drive, kryflux (linux-version ... this version

of the dtc/firmware was last updated December 2014) with the newest kryflux hardware.

 

I have already saved about 100 3.5" floppies without serious problems...

 

But I had no luck in reading at least one side of a 5.25" floppy. I cannot decide, whether this

is a problem of the floppy itsself or of the drive.

 

With the commandline tool "atr" I could """read""" the contents of the created atr image...but it gave

me read errors when I tried to extract one file off the atr image.

 

How can I convince and check for that the drive is running at 300 rpm instead of 360 rpm?

 

Are their any ready-to-build "index fakery circuitry"...which I hope to add to my drive without the risk

to damage it?

 

Thanks a lot for your help in advance!

Cheers!

mcc

[_The Doctor__]

sounds like your 5.25 is either bad or miss-configured if you haven't been able to get one disk done... you should be able to get almost all side a (first side of disk) done no problem, the failure rate of reading these disks via kryo or scp is very low. Have you visited the preservation site read the tips or been in the thread?

The index faker links and sites are all posted here somewhere.

[ijor]

Due to limited equipment and space and limited skill in mechanical things like pushing bushing down a

plastic tube and not breaking the complete head assembly combined with the VERY limited possibilities

of getting a suitable 5.25" floppy drive AT ALL....

Consider getting an Atari drive if you have no other alternative.

 

But I had no luck in reading at least one side of a 5.25" floppy. I cannot decide, whether this

is a problem of the floppy itsself or of the drive.

...

but it gave me read errors when I tried to extract one file off the atr image.

It might be difficult to find the problem if you don't have a known good drive, or known good disks. But if you have many disks, they were reasonable stored, and you can't read any of them at all, it is unlikely that they are all damaged. The drive heads might need a good cleanup.

 

Note that failure to extract files from an ATR image doesn't necessarily means the disk and the image is bad.