_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 yeah, missing screw and such, what can you do... I know! open it up and see what adventures await in there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 I think mine had been molested. I placed the new board in today, no supports at all. Also. The red wire coming off the cartridge doors is now attached to the shield instead of the board... With all due respect to _The Doctor_, I don't think supports or spacers or anything of the sort he has described were universal. There are something like 6 different 600XL/800XL keyboard variants and numerous PCB revisions. As I said earlier, none of my XLs (including 3 800XLs with two different keyboard variants and two different PCB revisions) has anything between the keyboard and RF shield. Further,the ground wire on the cartridge doors was connected to the RF shield on two of them, and was connected to the board on the 3rd. And despite talk like "molestation," very few of my machines had any evidence of ever having been opened before I got them. It's impossible to prove a negative of course, but I can say that your board and the ground wire fastened to the shield is not unique. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) Well don't forget the variants with a spring that contacts the shielding for the cartridge door as well, a piece of spring metal protrudes from the cartridge port doors, I am serious.... and yes there are keyboards that may not be supported in the way described, depends on the backing plate. Again, some had tabs, some had plastic... some foam rubber.. etc etc.. Looks like a solid metal backing plate in his photo. There were varying methods (I thought I conveyed that). I still say an adventure might lie within the clearly opened machines shielding. (fun to fix and discover the mysteries Edited December 1, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) I'm going to be testing my power supply today (still waiting for multimeter to arrive) and I just want to make sure I understand the pin assignments for the power. I found an image on AA, but I couldn't tell if the diagram was of the male or female connector, so I made my own for the male connector. is this accurate? EDIT: I found a posting which said the original image I had seen was of the port on the chassis, so I made a new image, color coded the original, and attaching them here. Can someone please verify that these are correct? ** here are new ones: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285375-can-someone-fix-800xl-computers/?p=4168306 Edited December 1, 2018 by xucaen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 ...and the test results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 um leads reversed on the pins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 um leads reversed on the pins? Why do you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) showing on meter as negative 5.16 instead of positive 5.16... if the leads are correct double check the power supply wiring or your diagram. Edited December 1, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 showing on meter as negative 5.16 instead of positive 5.16... if the leads are correct double check the power supply wiring or your diagram. That minus sign comes on as soon as I turn in the multimeter even if not connected to anything. I don't know why but probably because it's an $8 multimeter. About those diagrams, can you verify our clarify what the pin assig8 are supposed to be? I have no idea. The terminology people use can be confusing to someone without the same or similar points of reference. That's why I took a photo of the male connector so there's no confusion about which way it is oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 I test those with a simple 12v car tail light bulb and socket. I'll hook the leads on the pins and let it run on the power supply for about 10 min. If the bulb gets brighter, the power supply regulators are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) take a 9 or any battery for that matter and put red on plus and black on minus... if you still have a negative sign something is wrong.. after verifying proper polarity and voltage within reason when not loaded then test power supply under load for a decent time period Edited December 1, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylon Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 With all due respect to _The Doctor_, I don't think supports or spacers or anything of the sort he has described were universal. There are something like 6 different 600XL/800XL keyboard variants and numerous PCB revisions. As I said earlier, none of my XLs (including 3 800XLs with two different keyboard variants and two different PCB revisions) has anything between the keyboard and RF shield. Further,the ground wire on the cartridge doors was connected to the RF shield on two of them, and was connected to the board on the 3rd. And despite talk like "molestation," very few of my machines had any evidence of ever having been opened before I got them. It's impossible to prove a negative of course, but I can say that your board and the ground wire fastened to the shield is not unique. Same here. I had about 6 different 600xl decks in the past and none showed any evidence of ever having those supports in them. I'd think the marks where glue had been would be obvious. I've only had 1 800xl thus far and it didn't have them either. My 65xe and XEGS also don't have them and I'd bought the 65xe new from Best. That said, I think they might be a good idea and some simple door weatherstrip would get it done. I've also seen an early 2600 4sw that had supports for the control ports that prevented the port failures seen on most production systems, so ideas were there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) I referred to the 800XL... I never referred to 600xl or 1200xl or any other in fact I excluded them.. Although adding support to those that don't have a support system in them is a good idea. I also noted there were more than one support method used and that the shielding is structural in more than one way. Take a 130XE or some 800XL's and feel how much more solid they are with all screws and shielding locked tightly in place. It prevent flexing and twisting as well as reduces creaking noises. Who we gonna send in next.. the ghost busters... clearly more than one production run each slightly different. many of each type out there.. anecdotal stuff 30 or so years later.... 130XE has two plastic pylons/shafts and support/ground tabs on either side for their keyboards as well.. Bringing up the 130XE... no it doesn't have the rubber strips... but it does have the plastic supports (pylons) and tabs. Let's not make like I said every other machine has this stuff though, having already excluded all the others. A few folks seems to keep coming back with the exclusions... the shielding is still structural for the entire line however. The supports statements were about the 800XL and my current remarks about the 130XE that I now mention. Moving goal posts like in ball blazer. All Fords aren't pick up trucks, If I mention what they did on a Ford Focus, are you going to start telling me how you truck doesn't have what I said about the car? As far as the cars go.. while they mostly all have tires, they aren't the same tires... all have been changed and modified over the years. If they noticed the headliner fell down in the first model year then might add clips or supports to hold it up for the next model year. So I agree adding keyboard support is a good idea for those that do not have it. Edited December 1, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 If that was it's only purpose a cheap cardboard or plastic sheet would have been utilized as was the case for other applications like between the bottom shield and PCB. I said 'also'; not that this was the 'only purpose' of the rubber pads. I wonder what effect wholly metal spacers would have, for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) solid metal wasn't a good idea for different tolerances in assembly later on. Rubberized items, plastics, springs, tabs, and the like are pretty forgiving though. In all honesty I didn't like the strips for fear of decomposition or break down over time. They did however make things quieter, less creaking etc and they seem to have held up pretty well after all. Taking the idea these machines should be firmed up and made to last forever (or as close to it as possible) perhaps a super stiff set a of springs would work if insulated. Just for a giggle I should weld some on.. though I suspect the coils should have an insulated top added across them to spread the pressure out evenly then there's the matter of cleaning the welds and plating to prevent rust and all that later on down the line... maybe no weld but clipped into or pegs into the shield holes... oh my. Edited December 1, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) I just meant that metal would short out the back of an AWC or Alps keyboard. This is a non-issue with Stackpole (and - to a lesser extent - Mitsumi) keyboards, of course, which have a thick metal back-plate which doesn't bend anyway unless you happen to stand on it.Certainly the thick rubber spacers are not always present from the factory on AWC and Alps keyboards, and those that are have a habit of falling off and leaving a lot of nasty gunk behind. The rubber strips - when present - do not always run the full horizontal length of the keyboard, either. I have an AWC here with a short length of foam rubber running front to back on the reverse side of the PCB, about 1" in from the console keys. This offers little to no structural support or additional rigidity, but is presumably there to prevent the solder side of the PCB from shorting on the top of the shield. The amount of washers and spacers one finds under the mounting screws on 600/800XL (especially 800XL) keyboards suggests that some trouble was encountered getting everything to sit level and flush with the top of the case. Certainly any Atari with the full complement of shielding and (if applicable and available) rubber strips feels stiffer and heavier than one without, but once a machine has found a permanent home and providing it is handled with the care it deserves and keys are not regularly 'mashed', the absence of shields and keyboard supports should not present a problem. Mistreated 800XLs whose shielding was still in place have arrived here with warped AWC and Alps keyboard frames, most of which are easily straightened again. One (I think AWC) arrived with the PCB cracked in half, however: one wonders what went on there. I managed to repair it, though. Edited December 1, 2018 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) Computers move for one reason or another, they also get shipped to and from wherever for whatever upgrade, repair, mod, Et cetera, as well as plugging in this or that, cleaning normal life, excited game play. I know I've smacked a space bar ... key or two. I certainly don't think I will place a machine and never move it and treat it like it was made of egg shells. I suppose if I wanted repeat business or didn't want to deal with all that work (I mean it is a couple of extra screws, and a few pieces of metal) in a few years I could send them all out with just case screws inserted. It's not like shipping services would ever mistreat or mishandle anything. So long as it survives a number of years I am sure it's all good. less flex is always a good thing for fragile traces and joints. I know it's easier and quicker to toss them out. I guess I am just not that lazy. I suppose since I mostly do the odd fix for charity, to help someone out.. or to rescue a machine from the thrifty mart, I just take a little pride in giving someone a solid unit with all the designed strength, protection, and longevity as possible. In the spirit of solid UN-insulated metal to the PCB or exposed keyboard connections... well heck lets just jack them into mains without a step-down transformer. Edited December 1, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 take a 9 or any battery for that matter and put red on plus and black on minus... if you still have a negative sign something is wrong.. after verifying proper polarity and voltage within reason when not loaded then test power supply under load for a decent time period You were right. I tested with 9v battery and I get a reading of 9.66 without the minus sign, even though the minus sign is there before I touch the poles . So what does that mean? Either my diagrams are backwards, or the powersupply I bought is backwards. And if my diagrams are backwards, it means the information I used to make them is either wrong or poorly worded. I just wish someone would comment on my diagrams and tell me once and for all if they are right or wrong. It seems as soon as someone puts up a diagram, everyone goes silent. I will re-make my diagrams and re-post them, maybe with two sets of conflicting diagrams up, people will finally start to discuss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Good news, your meter is fine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 Here are another set of pin assignments for the power supply, both male and female. I have no idea which ones are correct. I am hoping for friendly discussion to enlighten the truth of these. \\//, here are the other ones: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285375-can-someone-fix-800xl-computers/?p=4168016 Edit: removing bad diagrams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) I want to know where your source is so I can read it. Also can we see your power supply and it's wire. Both sets posted are wrong... Computer power port when looking at it just as it is staring directly at the back of the computer holes facing you solder side away from you... (7)gnd 5v(6) (3)gnd 5v(1) (5)gnd 5v(4) (2) shld Power cord connector when looking at it with pins facing you, wire tail solder side facing away from you. (6)5v gnd(7) (1)5v gnd(3) (4)5v gnd(5) (2)shld 1 5v 2 shield 3 ground 4 5v 5 ground 6 5v 7 ground shield and ground are not the same thing on all wiring... shields do not always connect at both ends of a cable or wire.. grounds always connect at both end of a cable or wire... one always returns or completes a circuit(ground).. the other does not always complete or return a circuit(shield)... Edited December 2, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) Ok so it sounds like these ones are the correct ones then? http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285375-can-someone-fix-800xl-computers/?p=4168016 So then that is very strange that the power supply is somehow reversed.... Edited December 2, 2018 by xucaen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) show us the power supply (picture please) include the wires. Edited December 2, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 show us the power supply (picture please) include the wires. This is my new power supply. I'll take more pictures in the morning if these aren't any good. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/280756-super-stand-alone-system-test-shows-errors/?p=4071044 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+xucaen Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 OK I know what I did wrong now. Yes I reversed the leads when I connected then to the pins. Ugh.. this is why I do software for a living. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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