telengard Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I have an XF551 that is working, but not well. I've read what seems like every XF551 thread on the site and have tried a bunch of things mentioned in those threads, still getting the same behavior, which is: Disks load, but VERY slowly, and lots of "BOOT ERROR"s. DOS 2.5 takes like 15/20 minutes to load Attempting to format a disk fails w/ a 173 during what seems like the verification What I've done so far w/ my 130XE: Cleaned the head of the original Mitsumi mech Lubed the rails Tried both SIO ports on the XF Used a different SIO cable Switched to my 800XL Swapped out the mech with a Panasonic JU-475-4 I'm at a total loss as to what to try next, hoping for some ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam242 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 XF551s are notorious for bad solder joints at the SIO ports. Take a close look at those on the PC board and reflow those if necessary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Check RPM - XF551 should be 300RPM (RPM.COM is included in many spartaDOS distributions) http://seriouscomputerist.atariverse.com/pages/dos/dos.sparta.htm Use known good disks, maybe verified in another drive. ie. if formats complete successfully, with no audible track steps taking longer than others. Failing disks surface can literally scrape off and build up dirt on the heads making the problem worse, and worse if they are originals you may be actually damaging the disk beyond the point of data recovery. What power supply are you using? It should be a standard 31VA 9VAC supply same as used with the 810, 1050. Check the AC voltage loaded and unloaded with a multimeter. I've seen undervolting can cause these issues in a 1050 at least, when the drive motor is spinning.. (resulting in too slow an RPM) There should be a solid 5VDC and 12VDC out of the power lead going to the drive mech itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) The very first thing you should of done was reflowed all the solder joints on the ports on the PCB. Edited December 15, 2018 by tjlazer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 The XF551, 1) Reflow solder joints. 2) make sure rx and tx caps at a minimum are removed on the computer being used with it. 3) let drive warm up a minute or two in cold situations. 4) clean both heads using the correct cleaner! not rubbing oily alcohol. 5) Do not bend damage drive head if hand cleaning. If you do tension on head will be wrong preventing proper contact or will have one head mis aligned to the other. 6) make sure your disks are not from some other miss aligned drive! 7) make sure track zero is dust free with aero duster... is Power pack correct? That's the quick list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Since you have tried two different mechs (assuming with the same exact symptoms) I'm leaning towards the floppies being bad or if you have another drive that you created them on, that other drive being bad. However, since you did attempt to format the disk in the XF, I'm leaning towards bad disks... you are using DD disks and not HD right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 15, 2018 Author Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Wow, thanks for the all the ideas, very appreciated! I had checked out the solder joints, and while they don't look great, I didn't see any cracks or anything significant w/ my magnifier. I figured trying out both SIO ports and getting the exact same behavior meant it probably wasn't that. Long term I realize this should be done whether it is the issue or not, I just wanted to avoid it for now since I've read about how difficult this would be to do without ruining it by lifting pads, etc. And yes, I've used 2 different mechs and get the exact same behavior. Working, but super slow. I've tried a bunch of disks as well (commercial ones for the Atari), so no HD disks. For a power supply I have a the CO17945 that came with it. I feel like the power supply is where I should concentrate next as it is the only thing, except for the logic board that I haven't swapped out. Edited December 15, 2018 by telengard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I would re-flow the solder joints profolactively as we have all learned about the quirk, and make sure about the caps in the computer you could double check ribbon connector (pin to pin resistance and continuity and it's orientation as well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 (edited) Reflowed both of the SIO jacks and the behavior is exactly the same. Having swapped everything but the logic board, there doesn't seem much left that could the the issue other than that. And I've tried a slew of all different disks, they all behave the same. Super slow to load w/ BOOT ERRORs. Edited December 17, 2018 by telengard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 No luck running any kind of tool to check RPMs of the drive. I have tried the 1050 diag program (run from 8Mbit cart) just gets lots of errors. RPM.com in spartados gives me a 139 device nak. Any others I could try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 RPMTEST.XEX Try this one MyDos or SpartaDos .. Several options to pick from "E" to exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I would re-flow the solder joints profolactively as we have all learned about the quirk, and make sure about the caps in the computer you could double check ribbon connector (pin to pin resistance and continuity and it's orientation as well... Ok, let's do this, but do it prophylactically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Not having much luck running these, most likely since I am trying to run from my flash cart, the only one that kinda runs is the 810 diags, but it doesn't do much other than the read sector test which behaves as I described. How can I load these programs from disk if drive 1 is super flaky/slow? I have other working drives and an SIO2SD device. From what I've read most of these tools will be testing drive 1, but I'll need to load the programs from a drive other than 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+kheller2 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Not having much luck running these, most likely since I am trying to run from my flash cart, the only one that kinda runs is the 810 diags, but it doesn't do much other than the read sector test which behaves as I described. How can I load these programs from disk if drive 1 is super flaky/slow? I have other working drives and an SIO2SD device. From what I've read most of these tools will be testing drive 1, but I'll need to load the programs from a drive other than 1. Most of those tools don't apply to the XF, but they may get you some insight. Keep the XF set to drive 1 powered off while you load the diags from the SIO2SD. Then change the device number on the SIO2SD (or unplug it) and power on the XF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Most of those tools don't apply to the XF, but they may get you some insight. Keep the XF set to drive 1 powered off while you load the diags from the SIO2SD. Then change the device number on the SIO2SD (or unplug it) and power on the XF. Thanks for the info. I was considering doing this, but was concerned about hot unplugging the SIO2SD, sounds like that is safe to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I was considering doing this, but was concerned about hot unplugging the SIO2SD, sounds like that is safe to do? SIO is safe to connect/disconnect while on. It's the round barrell connector for the 9VAC power supply that you should only connect/disconnect to the drive while the power supply is disconnected from AC as it can cause the fuse in the PSU to blow. (due to possibility of momentary short I presume) This is possible even with the drive powered off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Oh wow... I've been plugging the 9VAC adapter in the wrong way for the past thirty years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Never had one die on me myself this way, (and I as well have only started taking this precaution for a year or two now) but I've read warnings about it... I have about 3 dead drive PSU's I've since inherited that I presume are blown fuses because of this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) the momentary short happens when the barrel goes into the jack, sometimes due to the plastic ring separation being worn down over the years and sometimes due to the power jack having the bypass tab still touching during barrel insertion- sometimes entry angle or the combination of all causes it, you can also blow out the drive select chip. I never blew one out myself until the last 3 or so years... then I managed to clobber a few... so it happens :(I In any event if he follow all the previously outlined steps and try a different sio cord all he may have left is to heat or cool chips untill something changes. Still wondering about his access to disks from someone else.. Edited December 21, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) SIO is safe to connect/disconnect while on. It's the round barrell connector for the 9VAC power supply that you should only connect/disconnect to the drive while the power supply is disconnected from AC as it can cause the fuse in the PSU to blow. (due to possibility of momentary short I presume) This is possible even with the drive powered off. I agree with this as I had a bad incident on my 1050 a few months ago. I got a spark when I tried to plug in the drive! Apparently it shorted. Bad design for sure! Be careful. Edited December 21, 2018 by tjlazer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodcastler_two Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I had all of these symptoms once, the power supply was the culprit. voltage was below spec. Make sure your 9V AC supply is up to spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E474 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) ? I have been disconnecting the barrel connector from my 1050s before doing anything with the SIO cables, but I haven't once unplugged the PSUs from the wall - have I been exercising the wrong sort of caution? Edited December 21, 2018 by E474 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 I had all of these symptoms once, the power supply was the culprit. voltage was below spec. Make sure your 9V AC supply is up to spec. That's next on my list to test out, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodcastler_two Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 (edited) Just make sure there are clean and solid 12V and 5V coming out of each of the regulators on the board and you should be good to go from the power supply stage of your troubleshooting. You can actually measure these at the molex connector that plugs into the mech. I admit that when I had these issues I was feeding 12V into the 12V regulator, so the drop in voltage was preventing the head from reading correctly / writing or formatting the disks. Edited December 21, 2018 by rodcastler_two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telengard Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Just make sure there are clean and solid 12V and 5V coming out of each of the regulators on the board and you should be good to go from the power supply stage of your troubleshooting. You can actually measure these at the molex connector that plugs into the mech. I admit that when I had these issues I was feeding 12V into the 12V regulator, so the drop in voltage was preventing the head from reading correctly / writing or formatting the disks. I’ll check the regulators next, it seems to not be the power supply. Same symptoms with my working 1050 one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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