Mendon Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Don't know if anyone saw my post about this game in the Marketplace. I've always liked Tower Toppler on the 7800 & ST. So when I recently placed an order with B&C (whom I've always had good service from) I told them to throw a copy of the game in with my order. My order arrived and I plugged the cart into my XE and was shocked to see the game was in Black & White, not color!! Not only did I find this very distracting but also made playing the game much harder as I was having a difficult time seeing the holes in the platform's as you climbed the tower. Overall, I rate this as one of the worst game purchases I've made in a long, long time. Anyone have any background on this cart, i.e. why no color, how the game came to be released on the 8bit, etc? I'm curious. Thanks in advance! Mendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Hey, I'll buy/trade that from you if you don't want it. :wink: "Tower Toppler" never was never fully completed (e.g. no colours) and was never given a commercial release by Atari. I've heard a number of conflciting stories about the "discovery" of this game by a retailer (B&C?) who found some proto carts in an old box of items from Atari UK, but I'm sure someone else can give you the complete run-down on this interesting item. It's also possible that "Tower Toppler" was coded for PAL machines and that the colour-problem is specific to NTSC 8-bits...but I've also heard European owners complaining about that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendon Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 No problem, David; see my post in the Marketplace forum. Mendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 should be no problem to patch... for color mode... just search for the display list... replace antic F with antic E and voila color mode enable... i have no clue why the hell they made this... could be a bug or for US only ("artifacting") hve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Black and white? OUCH! That's too bad. Tower Toppler is one of my favorites on the 7800 ... one of the few that showed the types of graphics and animation that the 7800 could pull off when given to a competent programmer. I was looking forward to playing the 8-bit one as well. Guess I'll pass ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 TT is nasty artifacted mode 8 :-( I get a green tower on my XEGS or a blue one on my 1200XL.... Intrestingly the 7800 version in PAL is also clearly artifacted (the tower is color, but alternate pixels on off), so both are just nasty looking... Unfortunatley whilst the 7800 version gets a so-so underwater scene (not as good as the C64 or ST versions sadly) the XEGS underwater section is AWFUL -- using default mode 0 blue for the sea!!!! Anyone care to hack a binary of this into Mode E for teh tower sections and spread the love?!?!?!?! sTeVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 "7800 version gets a so-so underwater scene" I assume you're still talking about the PAL version? Cause damn, I thought that NTSC underwater scene rocked the casbah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Unfortunatley I'm talking all Atari 8bit Versions compared to the original Nebulus/Tower Toppler on the C64 :-( The 7800 version does not look overall, sound or play as well as the Crummydore version I'm afraid to say... http://www.abandonkeep.com/games.php?GameID=445 Now on the ST -- that's a different matter sTeVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Huh? I had the C64 version and the NTSC 7800 version and I definitely remember it going the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 'fraid I can't agree -- especially from a playability POV the C64 version was the original by John Phillips (originally published in the UK by Hewson) and the best, the subequent ports were all a bit less tight and you could feel that when u played it... sTeVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendon Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 TT is nasty artifacted mode 8 While I did a lot of type in programs from Antic and Analog back in their day, I never got into programing other than that (hangs head in shame). So I'm not familiar at all with the term "artifacted". Could you or someone else please explain it a little to me? Thanks much! Mendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 TT is nasty artifacted mode 8 :-( I get a green tower on my XEGS or a blue one on my 1200XL.... Intrestingly the 7800 version in PAL is also clearly artifacted (the tower is color, but alternate pixels on off), so both are just nasty looking... Unfortunatley whilst the 7800 version gets a so-so underwater scene (not as good as the C64 or ST versions sadly) the XEGS underwater section is AWFUL -- using default mode 0 blue for the sea!!!! Anyone care to hack a binary of this into Mode E for teh tower sections and spread the love?!?!?!?! sTeVE I've just received TT from Al (Mendon), and have to say that the XEGS colouring (greenish and a garish pink) is most frightening; the display on my 800XL (green tower with blue, brown, and green water) is more pleasing (but not that pleasing). It's still not as bad as I thought it would be, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Got any pictures? Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mendon Posted July 8, 2003 Author Share Posted July 8, 2003 You got color on TT???? Hmmm... wonder what the heck I did wrong?? I played it on my 65XE and all I got was black and white. Wonder if its the way I've got the monitor set up..... using an Amiga 1080. Mendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Jefferson Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Artifacting won't work with a Chroma-luma (S-video) interface. Games like Ultima, Lode Runner and David's Midnight Magic will be black and white. Switch to your composite video connection, or RF instead, for color. Oh, and PAL doesn't do artifacting (?) either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 You got color on TT???? Hmmm... wonder what the heck I did wrong?? I played it on my 65XE and all I got was black and white. Wonder if its the way I've got the monitor set up..... using an Amiga 1080. Mendon I too use an Amiga 1080s, so it couldn't be the monitor. It's possible that my 800XL is a PAL machine, but unlikely (I bought it from a seller in Ohio). Artifacted display on this machine results in multi-coloured water which has a so-so result. My XEGS is from Newfoundland, and I would doubt very much that it's a PAL machine. Artifacting is less successful here, and I just get various shades of pink and green. I'll try to post pics of the screens this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Artifacting won't work with a Chroma-luma (S-video) interface. Holy crap I never noticed that before! What other games use artifacting? I'd hate to give up my crisp S-Video for the fuzzy composite, but if it means I cant play a bunch of games I'll have to. Any way around this? Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Artifacting won't work with a Chroma-luma (S-video) interface. Holy crap I never noticed that before! What other games use artifacting? I'd hate to give up my crisp S-Video for the fuzzy composite, but if it means I cant play a bunch of games I'll have to. Any way around this? Tempest No, unfortunately. Artifacting works if the pixel clock is based on the color carrier clock. The monitor can't tell alternating luminance pixels from a color signal. When you use separate chroma & luma outputs, the monitor knows what the true chroma signal is, so it doesn't happen. I know this works on NTSC, where the pixel clocks are all based on the 3.579 NTSC clock, but I don't know about PAL. If you see objects colored with high-rez vertical lines of pixels instead of solid color, you're seeing a place where a TV (or composite monitor) would show a solid color. Not all 8-bits show the same artifact colors, either, due to differences in their video circuits. -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Holy crap I never noticed that before! What other games use artifacting? Most Apple II ports. Choplifter, Drol, Twerps, Night Mission Pinball, Pinball Construction Set, Lode Runner, Ultima, Castle Wolfenstein, A.E., Aztec, yadda yadda yadda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Holy crap I never noticed that before! What other games use artifacting? Yeah, I was gonna say that all the Ultimas do. Ultima II & III look nice on an 800 which generates green trees & blue water. On the XL/XE's the colors tend to be purple, blue or red. Anyway, it's a trick (a side effect of the hardware), not an officially supported mode. -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Interesting... Which systems artifact best? Does it depend on the game? Which cartridge games used artifacting (other than Midnight Magic and Lode Runner)? Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Interesting... Which systems artifact best? Does it depend on the game? All Atari8's produce the effect, so it depends on what colors you like. Artifacting can only produce 2 additional colors (even/odd pixels). -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+davidcalgary29 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 "7800 version gets a so-so underwater scene" I assume you're still talking about the PAL version? Cause damn, I thought that NTSC underwater scene rocked the casbah! The underwater scenes on the XE are roughly equivalent (in graphics resolution and available colours) to that which is seen in the 7800 version of the game. The only real difference that I've seen is that (aside from using one or two more colours), the sea floor in the 7800 version is split into three (not two, as in the XE version) levels to create an illusion of speed through perspective. It's pretty neat, and is much like an underwater version of "Moon Patrol". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Couldnt the Apple series artifact into more than 2 colors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Couldnt the Apple series artifact into more than 2 colors? I'm not sure what the deal was with Apple's graphics, but the colors were generated by artifacting a B&W display, and not by a generated chroma signal. I believe there was a delay circuit to shift the pixels back and forth in time. The weird thing is that even when the Apple IIgs went into an old color mode, there was atrocious artifacting on black & white text even on an RGB monitor. My thought is that Apple needed to artifically generate the artifacts, because of the crappy way the Apple II handled color. -Bry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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