Difference between 2D, 2.5D, and 3D?

[RCmodeler]

I'm confused. I've heard people refer to:

2D = Castlevania: SOTN, Capcom vs. SNK

2.5D= Pac-Man World 1/Ms. Pacman Maze Madness, Luigi's Mansion

3D = Mario 64, Spyro

 

 

Why is Pac-Man World not 3D? What does 2.5D mean? How is Luigi's Mansion 2.5D when it's similar in style/gameplay to the 2D Spy vs. Spy?

[Adrian M]

A good example of 2D is Super Mario Bros...you can move left/right/up/down but the 3rd dimension isn't present (depth). If you see a tree or some other object in the background, you are restricted to seeing it from one side.

 

Mario64 is a good example of 3D. Here you can move up/down/left/right, but you are also permitted to move in 3D space (depth). So, if you see that same tree in the background, not only can you walk up to it (relatively unrestricted), but you can move around it and see it from all sides.

 

To best describe 2.5D, think of the game Pandemonium for NGage (or PS1 and Saturn). Here, the player is forced to move in a 2D manner while the screen backgrounds move somewhat unrestricted in 3D. In other words, the path you may take limits you to 2D movement, but the backgrounds are technically in 3D which may rotate and shift around for the player. In the case of Pac-Man world, you are only given so much freedom...your character can move into and out of the screen, but using the tree example again, you can technically move around a tree in the background, but you won't be able to see it from all angles as you would in true 3D.

[kisrael]

Luigi's Mansion is probably pretty close to 2.5D, actually.

There's some concept of 'up' (aiming to get ghosts), and there's that viewpoint that is 3D (like when you look 'through' the Game Boy Horror) but overall it's pretty much 2.5D.

 

Or wait...DOOM is 2.5D I think as well. But its FPS.

 

I guess it's ambiguous. Then again, I've noticed that we seem to live our lives pretty much in 2.5D, thanks to gravity...

[liveinabin]

Luigi's Mansion is probably pretty close to 2.5D, actually.

There's some concept of 'up' (aiming to get ghosts), and there's that viewpoint that is 3D (like when you look 'through' the Game Boy Horror) but overall it's pretty much 2.5D.

 

Or wait...DOOM is 2.5D I think as well.  But its FPS.

 

I guess it's ambiguous. Then again, I've noticed that we seem to live our lives pretty much in 2.5D, thanks to gravity...

 

No I think those are all 3D games. In a true 3D game you can move fully in both the X(and/or Y) AND Z axis. A good example of a '2.5D' game is something like Klonoa or Pandemonium on the PS1. You seem to move in a 3D world but you're still only able to move left and right. R-Type Delta and the Street Fighter Ex series are the same. Basically 2D games made to look 3D.

 

I don't think there are any 2.5D games on the 2600 (correct me if I'm wrong, I usually am) Pitfall is 2D, Frostbite is (very forced) 3D.

[Ze_ro]

2.5D is ill-defined... basically, anything that isn't explicitly 2D or 3D just gets called 2.5D because there's nothing else to call it.

 

I usually consider Doom a good example of a 2.5D game... although it appears 3D, it really only uses some tricks to get things to have height. There are some "bugs" due to the fact that it's not really 3D, such as how you can't have rooms over/under other rooms, you can't jump over enemies (even if you're on a very high ledge), and so on. Duke Nukem 3D is sort of a 2.5D game as well, although it manages to get around a lot of the "bugs" that Doom had.

 

--Zero

[kisrael]

Yeah, I think that's the problem; it is poorly defined.

 

It's either "looks 3D, but does it with cheats and trickery" ala DOOM...this is getting rarer, though some isometric games on GBA could fall into this category. (like the ports of Tony Hawk)

 

Or it's "has a 3D engine, but limits the action to 2D" ala Viewtiful Joe, or (sort of) Luigi's Mansion. This is getting to be more common, as it becomes almost easier to setup a camera in a 3D 'world' then to come up with a new, properly 2D engine. It's most often an artistic or deliberately retro idea.

 

I think neither definition has a lock on the phrase "2.5D". People can usually figure out what you mean though.

[Mr.FoodMonster]

2.5D, to me, is the games that use 'rails' Klonoa, Crash Bandicoot, ect

[Lost Monkey]

Yeah, I think that's the problem; it is poorly defined.

 

I think it is poorly defined because the idea of "2.5D" is purely conceptual.. it can't actually exist. It can only describe a "look", rather than the physics. IE. The interactive movement in a game is either 2D (Galaga, Super Smash Bros., Pandemonium) or 3D (Super Mario 64, Quake III).

[kisrael]

2.5D, to me, is the games that use 'rails' Klonoa, Crash Bandicoot, ect

Ok, but does it also mean rails PLUS gravity? In particular wondering about Crash Bandicoot...

 

For example, Star Fox and Star Fox 64....assuming you're including those Crash Bandicoot scenes where he's running "into" the screen...seem more "3Dish" than those Crash scenes. From a graphics engine point of view, there's not much difference... fixed camera, background scrolling to foreground...but because Crash is mostly on the flat plane, except when he jumps, but Star Fox's ship hangs out at all portions of the screen, the latter feels "more 3D" than the former.

[RCmodeler]

Soooo....

 

What is Luigi's Mansion? To me it's movement is like the 8-bit Spy vs. Spy which was a 2D game.

[liveinabin]

Soooo....

 

What is Luigi's Mansion?  To me it's movement is like the 8-bit Spy vs. Spy which was a 2D game.

 

Spy vs Spy allowed you to move into the screen as well as left and right. Therefore the gameplay had 3 dimensions. Therefore it is a 3D game. Just because it has flat sprites doesn't make it 2D.

Luigi's Mansion is totally 3D. The only difference between it's '2D' 3D and the (I hope) widely accepted complete 3D of, say, GTA VC is the amount of movement you have on the z axis. I GTA you can run right down the street, In LM, you can just go down the corridor. It's still 3D though.

[Clock]

What would you classify Knightlore or 3D Ant Attack? (both are Spectrum games)

 

Its a forced perspective issometric 3D and you can move in 4 directions and jump but its not 3D. I assume this is 2.5D (although I've never heard this term before).

[cryptik76]

This is the way I have heard 2.5D defined: games like Doom or Duke Nukem 3D, which use 2D sprites rather than 3D objects for enemies, weapons, items, etc. Like how in Doom if you look at a body and strafe around it, it will always be facing towards you.

 

So you move in three dimensions, but the objects within the game are actually 2-dimensional bitmaps.

 

But the other definitions presented sound good as well...

[Jasoco]

2.5D is a 2D game that has a 3D look. A sidescroller that looks 3D.

 

Yoshi's Story, Mischief Makers...

[Ze_ro]

Spy vs Spy allowed you to move into the screen as well as left and right.  Therefore the gameplay had 3 dimensions.

 

I hate to tell you, but you only listed two dimensions.

 

in Doom if you look at a body and strafe around it, it will always be facing towards you.

 

Have you been playing it on the 32X? Doom actually does show other perspectives of monsters... you can see the back of a demon if you manage to sneak up on one, but you're right that they're all done with sprites... they just drew each animation 5 times so you could watch it from different angles (Crappier ports of Doom like the 32X version dumped all but the head-on views, since it couldn't handle the extra frames of animation).

 

Lots of games still use sprites for objects... Pac-Man World 2 still does this for example... so did Descent (which, otherwise, is about as 3D as games get) and Duke Nukem 3D. Hell, even Mario Kart 64 used sprite based characters, although they did a pretty good job with it (watch the demo and it's easier to tell that they're really not 3D at all).

 

--Zero

[Raijin Z]

Umm, corpses, weapons, and other non-attacking-you items only get one sprite in Doom.

[Jasoco]

Umm, corpses, weapons, and other non-attacking-you items only get one sprite in Doom.

You mean angle. Since exploding barrels and flame barrels don't attack and have 2 or 3 frames.

 

Still.. Sidetrack, it's funny in 32X Doom when you meet a Demon and he's running back and forth, but to you it looks like he's sidestepping. This happens in level 15 when you open a door, he runs back and forth a few times before he comes through the door so it's like shooting a duck in a carnival game.

 

The way I see it.

 

2D:

Always looking head on. Can move left, right, up and down, but real forward and backward movement will never occur. i.e. Super Mario 1, 2, 3, etc. Flat games like that.

 

2.5D:

A 2D platformer or shooter where you move left or right or up or down, but the graphics are rendered in actual 3D. Parallax scrolling doesn't count.

 

3D:

If the graphics look 3D and you can move in all 6 directions, it is 3D. DOOM, Quake, Halo...

 

But that's just me.

[Raijin Z]

I'm not going to draw a fucking schematic this time... I'm not....

 

ANGLE IN THE CASE OF THE RARE ANIMATED 2D OBJECT.

[liveinabin]

I hate to tell you, but you only listed two dimensions.

 

The x and y plane are a given. It's interaction with the Z that makes it 3D.

 

Arguing that that was 2D is like saying that Freeway is 1D because you only move on the Y axis.

 

As for what 2.5D 'is'. Jasoco has nailed it perfectly there.

 

BTW @clock. I'd say that Knightlore and Ant Attack are actually (simple) 3D. They're isometric so you have your X and Z axis, as well as Y (jumping, being on upper levels etc.). As platformers, compare them to Super Mario Bros. SMB allows you left and right (x) to jump (y) but no interaction with Z at all. This '2.5D' is for stuff like Klonoa where the illusion of depth does not run to the level of interaction. Klonoa only lets you move in X and Y axis (apart from the cart sequences which are fully 3D). It just means 'obviously 2D games that have a look of depth to them'. I guess parallax scrolling could also be considered 2.5D

[CPUWIZ]

The x and y plane are a given.  It's interaction with the Z that makes it 3D.

 

Arguing that that was 2D is like saying that Freeway is 1D because you only move on the Y axis.

 

As for what 2.5D 'is'.   Jasoco has nailed it perfectly there.

 

BTW  @clock.  I'd say that Knightlore and Ant Attack are actually (simple) 3D.   They're isometric so you have your X and Z axis, as well as Y (jumping, being on upper levels etc.).  As platformers, compare them to Super Mario Bros.  SMB allows you left and right (x) to jump (y) but no interaction with Z at all.  This '2.5D' is for stuff like Klonoa where the illusion of depth does not run to the level of interaction.  Klonoa only lets you move in X and Y axis (apart from the cart sequences which are fully 3D).  It just means 'obviously 2D games that have a look of depth to them'.  I guess parallax scrolling could also be considered 2.5D

 

Ahhhhhh.

[Major Havoc 2049]

Games like Zaxxon and Blue Max are 2.5D, that is what I always thought anyways.

[Ze_ro]

I hate to tell you, but you only listed two dimensions.

 

The x and y plane are a given. It's interaction with the Z that makes it 3D.

 

But you don't move up and down at all (I haven't played Spy vs Spy in an awfully long time, but I don't remember being able to jump)... so it's basically an overhead view game, except from a 3/4 overhead view.

 

Anyways, all this 2.5D definition stuff is rather futile in my opinion... there's too many games that are in-between to really nail down a definition at all. It's just a short way of saying that a game is not fully 3D, yet not fully 2D either.

 

--Zero

[liveinabin]

Actually, yeah - I concede the point on that - you don't move up or down so - yeah, have to hand it to you, that is 2D (and I guess, because it's suggesting depth, you could argue that it is "2.5D")

[RCmodeler]

I don't consider any game to be 3D unless it used polygons in it. Not Spy vs. Spy. Not Last Ninja. They are flat 2D games that give the *illusion* of 3D.

 

IMHO.

[Jasoco]

Who coined the phrase "2.5D" anyway? The first time I saw it mentioned was in an issue of Nintendo Power in a preview of Yoshi's Story. I had always figured "N" created the term.