Mental Kombat Label Contest! (continued)

[Alex]

There was a technical problem with the MK thread probably related to the issues last week, so I've closed the thread (page count was off, causing an empty page to load). Please continue your discussion in this thread.

[ATARIPITBULL]

Simon, most of us were upset that a movie poster won, instead of the one's we had made from scratch ourselves, so don't get mad at us for that. You would not have liked it if you had entered your game in a 2600 game making contest, and I won using a copy of Donkey Kong. Now I have a request, could those of us who did not win buy copies of your game with the labels that we made, you know, kind of like what they did for us with gunfight. Most of us would like to have our copies with our labels if you would not mind.

 

Thank you very much.

[Snider-man]

Simon,

 

I truly feel your pain. Check out this previous thread:

 

Venture II pulled from CGE

 

Regardless of your intentions and creative outputs, there will *always* be malcontents who wish nothing more than to point out why they're right and you're wrong. Regardless of the whole label controvesy, I think Mental Kombat is a great game concept and looks to be very well-done. I wish you the best with it and look forward to ordering my own copy.

 

To the rest of you who won't let this thread die until Simon drops to his knees and begs your forgiveness for ignoring your artistic integrity, let me be the first to say, "Please straighten up and get a life. It's a homebrew game for a 20-year old system. Oh, and Merry Christmas. I'm sure your constant bickering and finger-pointing really made Simon's holiday a bit brighter."

[Snider-man]

Arrrgh, try this link.....Venture II pulled...

[Albert]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snider-man:

Arrrgh, try this link.....Venture II pulled...

---

 

Just a note in case you weren't aware: You can edit your own posts if you ever need to correct something like this. Just click on the small edit icon above the message, which is the pencil over a piece of paper.

 

..Al

[krisjohn]

Simon, please don't get too upset. You have to understand what happened.

[*]You annouced the winner

[*]An error occured in the message boards and your post was removed

[*]Someone showed that the winner had basically ripped imagery from a movie poster

[*]People who had put a lot of time and original design into their labels felt betrayed

[*]You didn't turn up to sort things out, so people started second-guessing you. (No one knew if you knew that the label was basically the Enemy Mine poster)

• know and had chosen something that showed little effort and no originality. As the days rolled on we all got a little nervous and it showed.

 

For me, I knew it was going to get worse before it got better when someone tried to defend it by saying it was the first with the two heads across a board and the majority of other entried copied it -- once I knew how little work had gone into it, of course it was the first one, most of the rest of the entrants needed more time to created original designs.

 

Anyway, now you're back you should notice the text forum equivalent of a sigh of relief. A bunch of posts saying that we're all happy with the outcome. I know I am, you have now picked one of my top 3.

 

Merry Xmas

[Mindfield]

The thing I'm hoping is that the bickering and arguing haven't ruined any further chances of contests and such like being held again. I know numerous people were upset, but I think it got blown considerably out of proportion and as a result, we've probably alienated Jason and upset Simon. Despite a new winner being chosen (and hey, it contains images of Rodin's "The Thinker" doesn't it? :-) I have to wonder at whether there really were any winners here.

 

<shrug> I dunno. I'm loath to further the discussion in the interest of keeping the peace, but in the larger view I'm inclined to think the whole ordeal might just have done more harm than good. But done is done, and there's no point in belabouring it. I just hope that it doesn't give other homebrewers a dim view of the idea of farming label design out to a contest. I still think it's a great idea and brings out the best and the most talented among us for a common goal -- not just to win, but to further the cause of the homebrew scene and keep Atari in that warm and cozy light we shine on it.

[Lost Monkey]

Well...

 

I just got back from being away for a week...

 

I have 3 things I would like to add to this mess:

 

1. To Simon... I am very sorry for putting you in this situation. I would never have submitted the labels as they were if I had any idea that this would be the result...

 

2. I would like to suggest that Alex and/or Albert remove my labels from the site if they feel that they may cause them trouble from a copyright standpoint.

 

3. I would also like to apologize to anyone whose ire was raised by this incident...pro or con... I guess I must have completely misread the nature and tone of the "contest"...

 

Jason

[Rhindle The Red]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lost Monkey:

1. To Simon... I am very sorry for putting you in this situation. I would never have submitted the labels as they were if I had any idea that this would be the result...

---

You have little reason to be sorry. If this were an issue for Simon, it was his responsibility to mention it at the beginning of the contest. There was no way you could have known this was a problem for him.

• 1) He didn't say anything to that effect
• 2) He wanted the Atari logo, so he obviously had no problem with copyright/trademark infringement
• 3) The previous Gunfight contest had several labels (besides yours) that featured pre-existing (and presumably copyrighted) art, including this one, this one and this one. Noone made nary a peep about them being "unfair".

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lost Monkey:

2. I would like to suggest that Alex and/or Albert remove my labels from the site if they feel that they may cause them trouble from a copyright standpoint.

---

Don't worry about that. In all likelyhood (since they are not going to be used in a commercial product now) they are free and clear under "fair usage" laws. Besides, if AtariAge was worried about copyright issues they wouldn't have the archive of copyrighted images up.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lost Monkey:

3. I would also like to apologize to anyone whose ire was raised by this incident...pro or con... I guess I must have completely misread the nature and tone of the "contest"...

---

They should apologize to you. They slagged you mercilessly as being unworthy of winning this contest purely because they were jealous and angry they lost. It is obvious from their language that they only attacked you because you won, and that was not in your control. Despite a very positive comment about the "Scanners" label, there was no talk of how it should not win before the end of the contest. They didn't say word one until the contest was over and then spoke in only the rudest possible way, showing absolutley no respect to others.

 

Despite what some have posted, I did not get the sense that "most" people were upset at Simon's original decision. I think most people at AtariAge appreciated all the work every entrant made and appreciated their works for what they were.

 

As I said in an earlier post, there is no shame in using pre-existing art in and of itself. It is a long standing tradition in the art world and those who say otherwise are simply ignorant.

[moycon]

Well said Rhindle!

[liveinabin]

yeah, nice one rhindle.

Your labels (for both competitions) were really good, you should be proud of em.

Thanks for the nice things you said about my Gunfight label. I'm getting my game via Manuel (we're having PAL copies) and neither of us have copies yet. So you've got one up on us all there

(as far as I know, Manuel has not actually played his own game on a real 2600 yet)

[cpepin]

quote

3) The previous Gunfight contest had several labels (besides yours) that featured pre-existing (and presumably copyrighted) art, including this one, this one and this one. Noone made nary a peep about them being "unfair".

 

Just to set the record straight. My label for the gunfight contest (Chris Pepin) did not, to the best of my knowledge, use a copyrighted image. As far as I'm aware the image I used was in the public domain. Since it was a photo taken in the 19th century (possibly early 20th) if it had been copyrighted, the copyright would have run out by now. Anything prior to 1923 is in the public domain. Also, during this time period you actually had to register your copyright with the copyright office. Otherwise you were out of luck. Plus every few years you had to renew your copyright otherwise it would fall into the public domain. Things are slightly different now, in that you don't have to register your works to have them be copyrighted (copyright act of 1976) but if you want to sue for copyright infringement it is almost a must to have it be registered. :-)

[slapdash]

Boy, did I miss a lot of discussion...

 

I have to say that Simon made a fine and fair choice, regardless of copyrights. The label he selected was one of my favorites as well (though to be honest, I didn't recognize the face in the image for what it was; knowing it now doesn't change my opinion of the label).

 

For those of you who don't think so, please look up the concepts "found art" and "fair use".

 

Now, I know some of you are complaining that it took Jason less time, effort, talent, who knows what, to do that label compared to what it took to do yours, but if you weren't doing it for the fun of it, then why did you do it at all? Did you ASSUME you'd win? Please... Next time, do it for the fun of it, or don't do it at all.

 

Perhaps future contests will specify one way or the other regarding use of other images, and then you can choose what you want to do.