2600-like traits that seem to have blown away in the wind.

[liquid_sky]

Games have evolved a great deal in many aspects since the days of the 2600. I know not all of the things that have evolved have been kind to the innovations of the atari. Everyone knows how great the paddle was, but when have you seen an x-box paddle? High scores used to be what games were all about, but now we have games that may span over 3 cds and have innovations we have never seen, but how much fun is watching a movie 500 times over and over again? Thats how i feel about rpgs, eventually they lose replay value, whereas I can still load up space invaders and play like I judt found it.

 

What I am asking of you all isnt too hard, I am just curious about what great things that were prevelent in the ataris lifetime, do you beleive have gone to the nevada dump in the sky?

[Atari-Jess]

games like pressure cooker, who makes burger making games today? or even just food games? sure activision is still around, but that sure as hell doesn't mean we are gonna see a remake of pressure cooker!

[liveinabin]

Rpg's by-and-large are lacking sorely in replay value - but then I guess that's why they're so long.

I've only ever played one through twice (xenogears) and that was cause I didnt get the plot the first time

About the score thing. Yeah, it's a shame you don't get too many games like that any more - Crazy Taxi springs to mind as a noticeable (and superb) exception.

 

I totally miss paddles though, I don't understand at all why they vanished. It comes to something when a modern 'next gen' console couldn't even do Pong without having to make compromises.

[liquid_sky]

quote

games like pressure cooker, who makes burger making games today? or even just food games? sure activision is still around, but that sure as hell doesn't mean we are gonna see a remake of pressure cooker!  

 

Or Burgertime.. or fast food, you could try any idea in a game and get away with it and make a great game. Unique games seem to be critized by the presses, but why? Just because a game is different and origional dosent mean you should avoid it like the plague. There were so many bad remarks toward Seaman on the Dreamcast. I know that games based on talking to fish with human heads isnt a concept that people can embrace overnight, but that kind of innovation and uniqueness is what makes great games.. Before pitfall came out, im sure people thought David Crane was off his rocker planning to make a game where you are a man and you run around, rahter than another space shooter.

 

 

quote

About the score thing. Yeah, it's a shame you don't get too many games like that any more - Crazy Taxi springs to mind as a noticeable (and superb) exception.  

 

The replay value on crazy taxi is amazing.. and it is by far an odd and innovative game, thats why i think game producers need to break the bounderies more often, we get supurb games. If only my poor index finger agreed, it is currently angry at me for my all night crazy taxi / crazy taxi 2 binge.

 

One thing that i thought of that atari games had, is the jump in and play attitude.. I dont think games should have tons and tons of rules and manuals and stuff to learn, because games after all, are escapes from the tedious toil of reading and learning and living by the rules (or cutting it close enough to count).

[jahfish]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atari-Jess:

games like pressure cooker, who makes burger making games today? or even just food games? sure activision is still around, but that sure as hell doesn't mean we are gonna see a remake of pressure cooker!

---

 

well let's hope that pizza hut won't rerelease mangia

[Pete Perpetua]

I agree Pressure Cooker was great, but even if they would do a 2K version I don't think it would be enough of a value by todays market. They would have to re-make about 5 games on one disc. Imagine an disc with new versions of Keystone Kappers, Frostbite, Spider Fighter, Pressure Cooker, Crackpots, and Plaque Attack.

 

By the way if you like Crazy Taxi you should try The Simpsons Road Rage!!

[Cassidy Nolen]

I have often wondered about the paddle thing myself. I am currently working on a paddle control for my 5200. I have been on a Kaboom and Breakout kick recently (me, fixated?). It might not be pretty, but it will do the job.

 

I think the designers have designed games with the peripherals in mind, but not completely. R4 on PS1 came packaged with a JogCon, a full spinning feedback paddle wheel on the center of an oversized controller. You can use it on R5 I am told, but that is about it. Why not on other Namco games? You know you have an installed base of buyers, make it worth their while to buy the thing (Hell, I paid over 150 bucks for it when it came out). Can you imagine the control shaking and jumping around in Breakout while you were playing (side shots sent the paddle the other way, ooh yeah!)

 

As for modern replay; games that stand out to me all seem to be about the same age and oddly, from Sega. Crazy Taxi, HydroThunder, and 18 Wheeler and three DCast games that make the system in my opinion. Chef's love shack has mini games of Galaga, Warlords, Asteroids and Touch Me in it, but it is not the main game.

 

I would like to see the designers work on replay and fun more, with less emphasis on graphics. Super Monkey Ball is a new game that returns to play value, and just happens to have awesome graphics. Have to admit, I am pretty hooked on SSX Tricky right now, too.

 

Just my 25 cents,

 

Cassidy

[+Cafeman]

Yes, I agree that the paddle controllers are a missed peripheral. Sure, we have analog sticks and triggers and buttons now, but nothing replaces the paddle. Games have gotten so complicated that the controllers have had to keep up; a simple paddle game like Kaboom! or Pong is beyond the abiilities of any non-paddle controller though. Ain't that a shame!

 

The other 2600-like trait that I miss is this -- the options.

 

Back in the day, you got Asteroids with what? Fifty to 100 variations of game play? Why can't games today offer this feature? They have replaced variations of gameplay with longer games, but I bet there's room for both.

[Ze_ro]

Innovative gameplay seems to be a thing of the past these days... everything now seems to be a ripoff of the main game in the genre (eg, Quake, Final Fantasy, Tetris, etc) with barely anything new added... now, this happened with the Atari sometimes too, though I think it was mostly because the Atari was so limited that it was actually hard to make a game that didn't at least *look* like others. At least we had strange games like Mangia and Jawbreaker.

 

I always liked how many Atari games had a huge number of options... like the 100+ game modes in Space Invaders. Admittedly, a lot of Atari games had only one game mode, and there's actually a lot of games these days that have a lot of interesting options... But it would cool have actually have the difficulty control and game select switch right there instead of having to be programmed into the game. Sort of like an untimatum to programmers.

 

I too miss the paddle. I think a paddle on recent controllers would definitely help in more situations than people realize. For example, when navigating a menu, or careful aiming in a shooter.

 

--Zero

[pitfallaimee]

In the 2600 era, games often feature special "easy" variations for children. Odd, how now they need "easy" variations for some adults (like my parents) and don't have them. I had to rig a 2600 style joystick over the analog thumb stick on my Gamecube controller so my parents could play Super Monkey Ball! Games used to be easy to learn and difficult to master, but now it's difficult to learn, much less master.

[Malix]

That is my one huge gripe with modern day games, especially computer games.

 

The learing curve for some of these is ridiculous. If I wanted to learn how to fly for real I would take lessons not by a flight sim with a manuel the size of a dictionary.

[liveinabin]

I think odd controllers are half the battle toward new and innovative games.

Samba de Amigos maracas, Get Bass's rod, DDR's dance pads- all make a much more rewarding game experience. There was also a mention here of R4's Jogcon controller - which is, I hasten to add, the single BEST control pad in the history of gaming, even if it does only play Ridge Racer - to hell with dual shock - that had gaming immersion right there!

If we can't have originality on-screen any more, we gotta make the interface better.

By the way, who thinks Rogue Leader would benefit from the old Star Wars coin-op controller?

[ubersaurus]

Yeah, DDR with controllers just sounds weird. I still suck at the game though ;p

[eric_ruck]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

Games have evolved a great deal in many aspects since the days of the 2600....Everyone knows how great the paddle was, but when have you seen an x-box paddle?...I am just curious about what great things that were prevelent in the ataris lifetime, do you beleive have gone to the nevada dump in the sky?

---

 

I agree that game simplicity has seriously been sacrificed. I guess since I'm not a 14 year old who can spend hours on end playing video games, learning the intricacies of a 50 page manual.

 

What I do like is that hardware and software are backing off a little. The xbox controller may be a far cry from the 2600 joystick, but it is simpler than a PS2 Dual Shock. Better still, many of the games don't seem compelled to find a way to use all the buttons. The control scheme in Project Gotham racing is nothing if not simple. And the load times in PGR and Halo are, well, at least faster than PS2 games.

 

But that's why I started collecting. I can pop Joust in the old 7800, play a few games, and get on with my life in the space of 15 minutes, feeling a bit more refreshed than when I started.

 

Eric

[The Night Phantom]

I like the comments posted so far. One aspect typical of the 2600 that is lamentably lacking from today's games is a high degree of abstraction.

 

Today's games take enthusiastic advantage of amazing technological advances to present an increasingly realistic graphics and sound experience. Now by “realistic”, I don't mean just literally realistic scenarios as in sports games; I also include science fiction and fantasy games that nonetheless present a world that a player can easily imagine himself inhabiting. Even cartoony games like the Mario series have a strong grounding in realism with their 3-D graphics and sophisticated detail.

 

Although I am capable of enjoying games with these characteristics, I tend to gravitate toward video games of a more abstract nature. Abstractness was forced upon the 2600 by technical constraints (though laudable efforts toward more literal graphic representations were made throughout the console's life), and the 2600 shines in creating a vibrant unreality. Brand-new efforts along the lines of Breakout, Beany Bopper, Quadrun are rare. (Thankfully, updates of games like Tetris and Tempest do pop up now and then.)

[pitfallaimee]

Yeah, but those when those updates are only half-assed attempts to cash in on a well-known name, it only serves to make me angry and frustrated.

[liquid_sky]

quote

tend to gravitate toward video games of a more abstract nature

 

You need to try out Jet Grind Radio. Thats as abstract as ive seen, and still great game.. cell shaded animation, all about the game. Id rather play an old game than play a rehash of the same game over and over again just because it looks better.

[The Night Phantom]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

You need to try out Jet Grind Radio. Thats as abstract as ive seen

---

 

We must have really crossed wires; for, as I look at Sega's official Jet Grind Radio page—with descriptions like “The 10 cartoon-style characters are pumped up with polygons so they come alive in 3D” and “High-res animations transport you into cutting-edge hip and trendy culture”—I don't see how this game would fit among those I was pining for...whatever its other merits.

[liquid_sky]

have you ever played the game? **** what sega says they are tryi to hype it up.. its like playing a cartoon where tyou tag grafitti all over stuff

[The Night Phantom]

quote:

---

Originally posted by liquid_sky:

have you ever played the game? **** what sega says they are tryi to hype it up.. its like playing a cartoon where tyou tag grafitti all over stuff

---

 

No, I've never played it, but I looked at the screenshots, and your description doesn't make it sound abstract either. It looks like stylized representations of things that seem to belong in our physical reality.

[liquid_sky]

the shape and the color.. the inner depths and recesses of our minds.. acting and reacting to the feats in which we cannot rationally accomplish in our boundaries.. thats abstract. abstract is not a bookset definition, it is a view and a thinking, a transformation of the vague transpariences that we have always wanted to see but neer been able to derive from this grey soulless reality.

[Noble Kale]

quote:

---

Liquid_Sky Wrote:

One thing that i thought of that atari games had, is the jump in and play attitude.. I dont think games should have tons and tons of rules and manuals and stuff to learn, because games after all, are escapes from the tedious toil of reading and learning and living by the rules (or cutting it close enough to count).

---

 

This is most obvious these days with fighting games (eg: all the latest streetfighter games...). You don't stand a chance if you don't know the obscure combinations to make all of the moves..... It's funny how I loved street fighter 2 & mortal kombat back when I was younger, but now I just can't seem to get close to liking modern fighting games...

they're way too complex for a simple 'walk up and play' attitude. (the closest I come to a fighting game these days is omf:2097 ).

 

Noble Kale

[Osmeroid]

Has anyone ever tried playing something like C&C or AOE2 while drinking beers?

 

The 2600 lends itself to such degenerate (but fun) behaviour. 4-player Warlords is an excellent example of this.

[King Asmo]

I think the videogame market is doing itself a grave disservice by being so limited. The industry as a whole is going to be in a period of stagnant growth until enough companies start marketing games towards a broader base of the population.

 

It seems that all video games now are limited to 12-29 year old, somewhat anti-social males. I say anti-social in that these games tend to have such steep learning curves that you need to spend a couple of consecutive hours reading the manual and toying with the game before you get even somewhat good at it.. Who has time for that?

 

Imagine if the film industry put out nothing but Action movies. Sure, it would still be a large profitable industry but it would only be a small fraction of the size of what exists today, because it would be alienating about 80% of it's potential customers. That's where the console gaming industry is right now.

 

And that's why I play more Colecovision than I do any post-1995 system.

 

KA

[Joel D. Park]

I have issues getting used to all the 3D systems out there. I've been kind of avoiding new console systems because in most cases they force the programmer to write 3D because that's what the hardware is specifically designed for.

 

Don't get me wrong, I was a huge Quake fan and I still play 3D games, but I like the simplicity of 2D games. I really miss top down games like Gauntlet, or side view adventure games like Pitfall, or Bruce Lee on the Commodore 64.