800XLF

[amigaman07]

A Bit of related Trivia...

 

http://www.atarimuseum.com/computers/8bits/xe/65xe/65xe.html

Edited December 21, 2014 by amigaman07

[flashjazzcat]

Just discovered a PAL 800XLF in the spare room. Missing 74LS08 but otherwise intact:

 

[Rybags]

I don't quite get it... the Freddie chip has CO14889-01 part # which is GTIA (as per the actual GTIA on the board), but Freddie should be CO61991 or CO61992

Edited October 10, 2016 by Rybags

[flashjazzcat]

Good spot. I probably chucked GTIA in the FREDDIE socket by mistake (presumably FREDDIE should be bottom left).

[Guest]

mine's a standard 6-pin monitor 64-k secam rose

 

 

[flashjazzcat]

I remember working on a SECAM machine (making a video cable for it). Was it that one?

[Guest]

yep... it's really nice.

i'd like to track down 128k, but they're rarer than hen's teeth

 

a question for the knowledgable - esp as i've never seen either of the other two flavours.

 

the other "two types" - ie scart/peritel and 128k...

do these connect thru the same 6-pin monitor connection, or does either model have a dedicated/integrated scart-out socket?

only asking as one of the previous posts i this thread could be interpreted that way

[Kyle22]

F.Y.I. Freddie is just a glue chip which contains the logic that was formerly done by 74LS chips and the C060472 delay. The delay is accomplished by running through multiple inverters. Attached is a diagram of the internal workings of Freddie.

 

 

 

Freddie is a good chip, first used in the 14x0XL models.

 

important: (somewhat related) Does anyone remember that Phi2 timing-fix module that replaces the 74LS08? I have been looking for that for a while. Is it still available?

 

 

[Rybags]

Freddie = large chip on the left but 2nd row from the bottom.

 

The other thing is deletion of the delay line since Freddie takes a ~ 14 MHz input and divides down appropriately.

Sort of strange though, they could have taken the opportunity and had the PAL version run at ~ 17.9 MHz then used that clock to derive both the CPU and colour clocking, though then of course it becomes another system dependant component.

[Kyle22]

Freddie = large chip on the left but 2nd row from the bottom.

 

The other thing is deletion of the delay line since Freddie takes a ~ 14 MHz input and divides down appropriately.

Sort of strange though, they could have taken the opportunity and had the PAL version run at ~ 17.9 MHz then used that clock to derive both the CPU and colour clocking, though then of course it becomes another system dependant component.

I don't see how they could have done that because the video framerate is dependent on the CPU clock frequency. It's just the way ANTIC works (unless I completely mis-understand this {which I don't think I do})

.

[Rybags]

C64 Pal machines derive both clocks from the one master, but of course it's dependant on there being a direct relationship between the colour clocking and pixel/CPU clocking.

 

Atari NTSC, it's a direct relationship, 4 hires pixels = 1 CPU clock, colour clocking 2:1.

Atari PAL, the colour clocking is faster to the ratio of 10:4. So all's needed is to have the master clock such that it can be divided down to provide both, ie ~ 17.73 / 10 for CPU clock and /4 for colour clock.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Rybags

[+kheller2]

mine's a standard 6-pin monitor 64-k secam rose

 

 

IMG_20161010_1606282.jpgIMG_20161010_1606051.jpg

 

 

Does that say REV R2 or REV R3 on the solder side?

[flashjazzcat]

Freddie = large chip on the left but 2nd row from the bottom.

That's what I thought, and why I stuck a GTIA in the socket on the front row. But FREDDIE is bottom left, and GTIA moved to the row behind.

[Guest]

 

 

Does that say REV R2 or REV R3 on the solder side?

Rev R3

 

all details

Under (solder) side - L-R

[c] 8-84 GX-211 VO C024968-001 REV R3

0585 800XL - SECAM

 

Top (IC) side (top right corner)

800XL - SECAM ROSE

CA024969 - 001

REV -

[+kheller2]

So, in my quest to obtain a Freddie 800XL (anyone want to sell me their PAL 800XLF?) I've come across some hints as to what XL's might be Freddie. In particular, the "rainbow" shadow under the 800XL on its box was supposed to indicate a higher likely hood for the Freddie chip, and a late 84 manufacturer date, as there are September and November Freddie board variants. Now I've stumbled across someone who has a 800XL, in a Rainbow box, made in late 84 but its NTSC -- and afaik, no NTSC Freddie was ever made. The person who has this refuses to open it up and take a motherboard picture, and the price is a bit excessive for it, so I'm left gambling if I were to buy it.

 

But its always easier to give money away to someone with a sure thing.

[+Eyvind Bernhardsen]

I have a PAL 800XL that's probably an XLF: it came with rev. C BASIC in ROM and whichever revision of the XL OS that doesn't have the 4 minute CIO timeout bug. I'm not sure I want to sell it, though: it has some display/sound/RAM problems that I've been meaning to turn into a repair project.

 

How can I tell if it actually has a Freddie chip?

[Rybags]

How to tell at a glance if it's got a Freddie?

 

A stock 800XL has 5 large ICs. 6502 "Sally" CPU, Antic, GTIA, Pokey, PIA.

A Freddie machine has 6 (note, disregard the OS Rom at top right which along with the Basic Rom is larger than the 7400 and 4500 type ICs).

The reason for existence of Freddie machines? I think we've gone over this but Atari was going well in some Euro markets to the point of the XL line being sold there longer. Brand identity was retained by naming their local 130XE variant "800XE".

 

The Basic Rev C thing might be a good indicator too. I would suspect that the Freddie equipped models all get Rev C. You can test what Basic is present without pulling apart the machine.

 

Test for Basic revision:

 

? PEEK(43234)

 

If you get 162 you have Rev (brown Cartridge).
If you get 96 you have Rev B (stock for XL Computers).
If you get 234 you have Rev C (XE, some late XL, standalone cart replacement from Atari).

Edited January 14, 2017 by Rybags

[+tf_hh]

So, in my quest to obtain a Freddie 800XL (anyone want to sell me their PAL 800XLF?) I've come across some hints as to what XL's might be Freddie. In particular, the "rainbow" shadow under the 800XL on its box was supposed to indicate a higher likely hood for the Freddie chip, and a late 84 manufacturer date, as there are September and November Freddie board variants. Now I've stumbled across someone who has a 800XL, in a Rainbow box, made in late 84 but its NTSC -- and afaik, no NTSC Freddie was ever made. The person who has this refuses to open it up and take a motherboard picture, and the price is a bit excessive for it, so I'm left gambling if I were to buy it.

 

But its always easier to give money away to someone with a sure thing.

 

I have 2-3 mainboards "XLF" (PAL) with Freddie in my basement. If you want, I can check one. Let me know

[+tf_hh]

How to tell at a glance if it's got a Freddie?

The Basic Rev C thing might be a good indicator too. I would suspect that the Freddie equipped models all get Rev C. You can test what Basic is present without pulling apart the machine.

 

This is one way, but also there are a lot of non-Freddie mainboards with BASIC "C" in the wild. The much easier way is to use a S-Video monitor cable. All Freddie-based 800 XL (called "XLF") mainboards have Chroma on pin 5 like every XE mainboard. So if you connect a S-Video monitor cable and get color - it´s a Freddie-based 800 XL.

[+kheller2]

The Atari 8-bit faq states:

"August [1984]: Atari engineers completed the prototype "800XLF" motherboard design,

to be used in new-production 800XL computers. The new 800XL machines would
include the new FREDDIE memory management chip (previously developed at
Atari, Inc.), the new Revision C of Atari BASIC, and a reinstated chrominance
video signal on the Monitor port (missing on the 1200XL/600XL/800XL produced
by Atari, Inc.). The new 800XL machines would be produced in PAL and (for
the first time, France-specific) SECAM versions, but not the NTSC version due
to ample existing supply of NTSC 800XL machines."

 

Does anybody know what the source is for this date? I ask because the 800XLF boards have the following dates:

Rev-R1 © 4/84 [Possible prototype board]

Rev-R2 - never seen one or heard of one.

Rev-R3 © 9/84

Rev-R4 fabrication schematic 10/18/84, Revisions 6/7/85 and 2/4/88

 

The 800XL-SECAM (that uses Freddie) has:

© 4/84 REV-X1A [Possible prototype board] week 18 of 84

© 8/84 REV-R3 I've seen boards made week 42 of 84 and 05 of 85

 

Obviously, August fits right in the middle there as a good timeline, but was wondering if there were any notes or official sources.

[Marsupilami]

In France, Atari sold "PAL" XLF first but they had problems to deliver enough quantity, that's why the XLF Pal is the rarest.

The SECAM (XLF) was produced a few month later and the quality was better.

 

If you want to know if it's an XLF Secam without opening it, just look at the rear, ie search the "TV switch (Color/B&W)" or the lack of coaxial output.

 

This is a NTSC :

http://atarinside.dyndns.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/AI/photo-gallery/NTSC.jpg

 

This is a PAL (not XLF - no Freddie)

http://atarinside.dyndns.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/AI/photo-gallery/PAL_001.jpg

 

This is a SECAM XLF

http://atarinside.dyndns.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/AI/photo-gallery/SECAM.jpg

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by Marsupilami

[redhawk668]

I've completed an s-video cable for use on my 800XL and connected it, to my surprise the machine had a color display instead of the black/white I expected, so I opened it up. It's an 800XLF Rev. R3 from late '84 so I guess one out of the last production run of the 800XL before the XE series came out. The machine I have is a PAL system and is in good condition. Case has yellowed a little bit, but the PCB looked absolutely mint. This 800XLF will not receive any mods, and I'll preserve it.

[Marsupilami]

I've completed an s-video cable for use on my 800XL and connected it, to my surprise the machine had a color display instead of the black/white I expected, so I opened it up. It's an 800XLF Rev. R3 from late '84 so I guess one out of the last production run of the 800XL before the XE series came out. The machine I have is a PAL system and is in good condition. Case has yellowed a little bit, but the PCB looked absolutely mint. This 800XLF will not receive any mods, and I'll preserve it.

Hi,

are you sure i's an XLF PAL ? I mean the output is a coaxial cable but with a Freddie inside ?

Could you upload a picture of the motherboard ?

Thanks.

[redhawk668]

Hi,

are you sure i's an XLF PAL ? I mean the output is a coaxial cable but with a Freddie inside ?

Could you upload a picture of the motherboard ?

Thanks.

 

Yes, I am sure of that. It says 800XLF Rev. R3 on the underside of the PCB, it has a modulator and it’s a European machine so that means PAL version. It has a Freddie chip, because the lay-out is completely different and it has a chip with the markings CO61618 on it and the GTIA has moved upwards, so yeah pretty sure of that . Uploading a picture means I have to disassemble it again..., so will take some time.

Edited July 13, 2018 by redhawk668

[hueyjones70]

I just opened up one of my eBay purchases and found one of these.  Is there any info available concerning memory or video upgrades.