MarcoC

The Apple ][ version of Temple of Apshai had at least two versions, which probably explains the different release dates. I am not talking about the Trilogy version, but the original Temple of Apshai game itself. I don't remember the release dates, but growing up I know I played two different versions. One version had an intro with a crudely animated fight where Brian Hammerhand decapitates a giant ant, while the other did not. Another difference is that command 'V' in the original version was 'volte-face' (ie, turn around 180 degrees), while in the newer version 'V' was 'vault' (as in pole vault), where the character would jump forward a very long distance at the cost of a large amount of fatigue. I think I remember (but I am not 100% certain) that the updated version also showed the character moving forward step by step whenever you pressed a number, like what I believe the trilogy version does. The original Temple of Apshai version (and expansions) simply have your character appear at the new spot. Marco.

I struggled with it for a couple of hours, but I was finally able to hack the Apple version of Hellfire Warrior to get it to display room numbers on level 6 and 8. I realize this is an Atari forum, but I'll go ahead and post it here anyway. I was hoping it would be something easy, such as renaming the files DATA8 and SHAPE8 to DATA5 and SHAPE5. This way, when you enter level 5, the program actually loads level 8. This does in fact work, but the room numbers still don't display. So I realized that I would have to somehow LIST the BASIC code for the DM program and try to find the statements that obscured the room numbers. After level 8 has been loaded, you can do a soft reset to get to the BASIC prompt. The problem is that Hellfire Warrior uses a trick to prevent listing of their programs by messing with the RUN flag at a particular memory location. If you manage to interrupt the program, anything you type will cause it to simply RUN again. Setting the RUN flag back to normal is actually very easy in the AppleWin emulator because it has a handy debug mode that lets you examine and change the virtual computer's memory. You just have to know where the RUN flag is. Unfortunately, they also messed up something else which prevents you from being able to LIST the program, and I didn't know how to fix that. Here is where I got lucky and found that if I switched to and from the system monitor from the BASIC prompt (by typing CALL -151 then 3D0G repeatedly), for some reason this reset whatever it was that was interfering with the LIST command. I was subsequently able to go through enough of the listing to find a very interesting statement that read: IF PEEK (KA%) = 6 OR PEEK (KA%) = 8 THEN ........... .....and that was the dead giveaway. Levels 6 and 8 are the two levels in Hellfire Warrior that don't display room numbers. Therefore, the variable KA% is the memory location of the current level you're on. You just insert a statement that POKES the number 5 into this location, and all room numbers will now show up. Unfortunately, they also found a way to mess with the DOS commands, so I can't save the program again after hacking it. You have to do the following exercise each time you want to play Hellfire Warrior while displaying room numbers. It's a bit of a pain. BTW, I've only tried it with level 8, but I assume it also works for level 6, and likewise for the relevant levels in Keys of Acheron (and Danger in Drindisti, if an Apple II disk image ever crops up). 1) Enter the level. Hit CONTROL-RESET to get to a BASIC prompt. Do not type anything at the prompt or the program will just RUN again. 2) Hit F7. This puts you into the AppleWin debug mode. There should be a '>' prompt at the bottom of the screen with a cursor. 3) Type D6:00 D6 is the location of the RUN flag -- normally it is 00. If it is set to 80 or greater in hexadecimal (128 or more in decimal) then anything you do at the BASIC prompt will RUN the program in the memory. 4) Hit F7 again. This puts you back at the DOS prompt. The RUN flag is now normal, though LIST still doesn't work. However, it doesn't matter, because you can still modify or add lines to the program. 5) Type 8 POKE KA%,5 This adds a statement that fools the game into thinking you're on level 5. Now, if you hit RUN, you'll start in the entrance room with your character, but now with all the room numbers displayed. KA% is assigned a value at the very beginning of the program. My line is inserted close to the beginning of the program, but after KA% is assigned its value. I don't know if the variable KA% changes (ie, the level number might be stored in other memory addresses). It seems unlikely that they would waste memory on redundant information, though I didn't get through very much of the listing to be sure. Marco.

My memory of level 6 is that it was pretty straightforward. Just a bit on the monotonous side, because you couldn't read along with any room descriptions. I never played level 6 much -- I have never been fond of mazes in games, not since the grandfather of them all, the "maze of twisty little passages, all alike." I never had Upper Reaches until I bought the Trilogy version for the Apple IIgs much later. So when I was going through Merlis' Cottage, I immediately recognized what was going on because of my prior experience with Hellfire Warrior. I think your way of laying out the map makes it fairly clear. I am very interested in seeing what you do with level 8 when you get to it. I am actually toying with the idea of writing some appropriate room descriptions, if you include the hidden room numbers. "...to an extreme" is an understatement. The section of the level on the plain is ridiculous. Without the hack we were previously referring to, I think mapping the plain is almost impossible. It could probably be done by dropping unique treasures here and there to use as markers, but it would take a LONG time. Definitely, the level was never meant to be mapped. As far as how fair it is, this is difficult for me to answer. I had deciphered the clue in the manual long ago, and it isn't very hard once you know that clue. Before I had spent a number of sessions methodically going back and forth on the plains looking for the the Pyrohydra gate and never found it. From what I have seen you would have to be fairly lucky to stumble across it by accident, but probably you would get to it eventually. (spoilers, if anyone is keen on finding out all this on your own) Even after you find the elusive gate, Hellfire Warrior is still hard to survive. I have gotten killed before completing it even when using a buffed up character (all 18s, magic equipment, 60 magic arrows, lots of salves and elixirs). This is because the developers cleverly take advantage of the game mechanics to increase the challenge. Treasure #10 (Brynhild) weighs something like 150 lbs. On top of that, the Shades and Lost Souls you find all over the place chill you, causing drops in your strength and other stats, which further weakens you. And on top of that the Bridge of Ice does the same thing, but even more so. By the time you reach Death, you can barely take a few steps before your fatigue drops in the negatives, and then you're helpless. Ordinarily, you would just run past him. I spent levels 5-7 in Hellfire Warrior wondering why they bothered including nectars in the game, and then on level 8 they suddenly become one of your most critical resources. The magic boots are also extremely helpful. Once you know this, and once you know where the javelins are hidden, a lot of the challenge is eliminated. I was able to do it without these treasures, but just barely. Marco.

I have skipped ahead to level 8 of Hellfire Warrior. This game has one of the most anticlimactic endings ever. It gives you absolutely no acknowledgement that you've rescued the maiden from the evil demon. Mapping the fiery plain on level 8 is going to be almost impossible without that hack you posted elsewhere for displaying room numbers on level 6 and 8. The plain is not a simple grid: back tracking doesn't always take you through the same areas. The clue in the manual tells you to look for the orichalcum ring (treasure #13) on the plain, then head due west until you reach the pyrohydra-guarded gate to the demon's sanctum. Finding the ring isn't always easy, however. In the Apple version, these directions consistently get me to the ring: From the entrance of the level, head east until you reach the wall. You will suddenly be able to see treasure #5. The entrance area appears to be one big room with the dungeon entrance on the west and a corridor north. However, the two halves of the area are separate "rooms". Since you can't see a treasure until you are standing in the same room with it, this was a clever little trick by the programmers to hide the treasure essentially in plain sight. Most people would just head straight to the north exit and miss the fact that eastern part of the area is a separate room. Treasure #5 is critical -- you get 3 javelins that kill any enemy with one hit. Save them for Death and the Bridge of Ice (listed as a trap, but in the game functions as a really nasty monster). The 3rd javelin can be used for either the Demon or the Pyrohydra (I would suggest the Pyrohydra, since I don't think the Demon is that tough). After getting the javelins, head north to the next large chamber. There is a passage east, which is always guarded by a Behemoth. Beyond this passage is the huge plain. After reaching the plain, follow these directions: North 1 screen. There is another passage west that heads back to the entrance complex of chambers. North 1 screen. This area has treasure #8 (3 nectars). Save all your nectars, as they will become critical later. East 1 screen. This area has treasure #3. Pick it up or leave it. East 1 screen. 8 Imps attack you back-to-back. No treasure. East 1 screen. Treasure #13 is here. It isn't worth anything, so you can just drop it after confirming that you're on the right track. Turn around and go west 1 screen. 2 Hellfire "monsters" attack you back-to-back. Treasure #2 is here, with a trap that spawns another Hellfire. West 1 screen. I always find a Lost Soul here. No treasures, but there is another Hellfire trap. West 1 screen. There is a wall to the west with an opening leading to the Pyrohydra's lair. In front of the opening is treasure #1. You will also meet 3 Shades back-to-back. Close to the treasure is yet another Hellfire trap. Before entering the Pyrohydra's lair, go south 1 screen. You will find treasure #9, the magic boots. This will make your life MUCH easier. Then go back north and you can tackle the Pyrohydra, the Demon, and the rest. Marco.

It already has. After running across these maps, I decided to do a little hunting, and I finally found a disk image for the Apple II version of Hellfire Warrior. I've been trying to find one of these for years. I am now playing the Apple version for the first time again in about 3 decades. Sure, the Atari version's graphics are probably better, but I was mainly an Apple man. As I'm sure you realize, it's all about the nostalgia. I'll let you know if that same bug on level 6 also shows up on the Apple version. Marco.

Absolutely fabulous work you've done. The DunjonQuest games were the first adventure games I ever played on the computer -- Morloc's Tower, then shortly afterwards Temple of Apshai. I can't wait to see you tackle Hellfire Warrior. I never played Danger in Drindisti or Keys of Acheron, but I have to say I found their manuals somewhat disappointing, with cursory, rushed room/monster descriptions and back story. Hellfire Warrior and Temple of Apshai's manuals almost seemed like a labor of love by the developers. Early on in this thread, I saw you say that you never encountered the Centipedes and Spiders mentioned in the Temple of Apshai manual. I don't know about the Trilogy version, but I definitely have seen Centipedes in one of the Apple II versions of ToA (there are at least 2 non-trilogy version of ToA for the Apple). If I remember correctly, the trap near the chest in level 1 room 54 triggers a fight with Centipedes. I don't recall ever encountering Spiders, but I never explored levels 3 and 4 to the same extent as 1 and 2. Marco.