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Posts posted by Sauron

  1. 6 hours ago, Gunstar said:

    You are missing something...but I haven't been involved for years now in the actual online community and it will stay that way except for these few posts here now. I spend my time in the 8-bit community where they are actually still pushing the hardware to "new limits" with software and hardware unlike the poor Jag and community. I do love the new game drive I waited about 3 decades to happen. But I have been involved with a group of Jaguar developers (a couple actual commercial developers for the Jag back in the day) for about a year now, behind the scenes in secret, but it will be some time yet before we come forward. Of course this is all hearsay until we do come forward so...luckily I care not what most people in this community have to say about me, hell many have been in ignore for years and many of you here now weren't around when I was and I have no opinion about you.


    Fear not! once this sentence is typed, I will disappear again as I prefer to have enjoyable experiences with forums and as per usual, it never happens in this one.

    The amount of entitlement in your posts is incredible. I'm sure all of the 8-bit developers pushing the 8-bits "to their limits" are glad to have you hanging around, likewise with the secretive Jaguar devs that you mentioned. What I'd like to hear you explain, though, is what exactly is a game that is "worthy" of being on the Jag, and why the number of homebrews we've gotten over the years apparently don't live up to your expectations? 


    As far as having enjoyable experiences in forums, the Jag forum has been pretty nice the last few years. If you're not having a good experience in it, then perhaps you should take a good look at to who is really at fault for that.


    • Like 4

  2. 12 hours ago, madman said:

    I bought a Dreamcast around launch (still have Hydro Thunder w/the bugged audio) and thought it was pretty amazing for the time. Then I kind of crapped on it, the same way I didn't really appreciate the Saturn initially. Although the Saturn was more or less a failure here in the US, it had a great life in Japan. Unfortunately the DC never got that chance. But it is pretty amazing the library we did get in such a short lifespan from shmups to fighting games to sports and more. The Dreamcast even managed to making fishing fun.

    I never understood the mindset of many gamers back then who didn't give the DC a fair shake. I bought one myself shortly after launch and never tired of it at all throughout its lifespan. The system had a crazy amount of fun games, with the releases never seeming to slow down, and I built up a huge library even before Sega decided to shelve it. Thinking back on when Sega announced its cancellation and their transition to being just a software publisher is depressing.


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  3. 12 hours ago, PFG 9000 said:

    This is the Jaguar subforum, at AtariAge.  Why don't you guys hate the N64 more?  It thought this was supposed to be a safe space for Jag fanboys like me.

    Why does liking the Jag mean hating the N64? I certainly don't hate it, and I'm about as big of a Jag fan as anyone else. 


    1 hour ago, JagChris said:

    I don't know what he was comparing it to but in my mind i was comparing it to it's more successful contemporaries. 


    Such as 3DO, 32X, Saturn and PSX.


    I think now the Jag only beats the 3DO scene. 

    Pretty much any other mainstream console will most likely beat the Jag when it comes to the homebrew scene, just due to sheer numbers. I don't see it as a "race", though. Jag fans and homebrewers will keep the system alive for as long as there are fans wanting more games and developers making them.


    • Like 5

  4. 41 minutes ago, madman said:

    Well for the games that do use the d-pad, you move your left had to the outer portion. Clearly you are confused, hope this helps. I've got all my OG N64 controllers, none have any wobbly analog sticks. But then again I also don't have fat bratwurst fingers so I suppose that's a factor in not breaking controllers. 

    I broke more than one N64 controller, but that was due to slamming it on the ground and throwing it at the wall after getting my ass handed to me by my younger brother in Mortal Kombat Trilogy. :lol:


    46 minutes ago, PFG 9000 said:

    I don't make videos, but I love to hate on the N64 controller.  It's not that it's confusing.  It's that it has three handholds, and the average user has only two hands. If you can ignore the D-pad for most games, why have it on the controller at all?  Is it so that you can still use the controller after the analog stick gets all wobbly (you know, after like 4 months)?


    ...sorry, but as a loyal Jag fan, I have an unusually prominent chip on my shoulder against the N64.  😆

    The N64 controller was an important stepping stone in the evolution of controllers. It also came before everyone was sure of what control scheme would work best for games like first person shooters, so I can understand why some people may look back at it now and wonder why it was designed the way it was. Back then, though, it worked fine for the types of games we got on the N64. And the D-pad was a necessity for fighting games that require precise movements for pulling off special moves and combos.


    • Like 4

  5. 1 minute ago, joeatari1 said:

    Maybe you were dreaming that you had a second one.  I had a super vivid dream about 5 years ago that I had a Turbo Express and that I was playing it in my basement.  I woke up a couple hours later and searched through all my gaming stuff and couldn't find it.  Damn.

    No, it definitely wasn't a dream. I've had two Jags for many years now, one of which had a rental sticker on it, and the other was the one I originally bought back in January of 1995. The latter is the one that I still can't find. On top of that, I have a Lynx that's buried somewhere as well.


    • Like 1

  6. I'll second what everyone else said about taking time to practice how to fly the ship. Once you get it down, you'll find those parts that were extremely tricky at first to be a piece of cake.


    Having said that though...the parts where large objects provide their own gravity can go die in a fire.


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  7. 12 minutes ago, ataritiger said:

    When have I been refuted?


    I get banned from threads when I shut down 10 haters at once though ;) Its ok if they derail threads though :0

    There's something about this forum that seems to attract people who have little to no of a grasp on reality. I'll leave it to you to figure that out on your own.



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  8. 2 minutes ago, JaggingUK said:

    Doesn't mean it will sell at that price, I can list Chequered Flag and ask for £200, doesn't mean I'll get it... I've got one and was worried about listing it for £100 which was marginally more than it cost me a few years ago



    Don't underestimate the power of stupidity. Some dumbass with far more dollars than sense will come along and happily cough up the dough, which is exactly why these pirate cart scammers are listing them at such high prices.



    • Like 3

  9. On 8/16/2021 at 3:34 PM, Linndrum said:

    We need VladdR back up in here, he got ran off from the Jaguar community for doing cool 3D stuff, then he started experimenting with 3D on the Lynx and was making progress with that, but he hasn't been around for a while.... Who knows what he's up to now

    I don't think the 7800 community needs someone who promises something great, shows off crude unfinished demos with no sound, and then disappears for years on end with the excuse that he moved/changed jobs/got stuck in a snowstorm/etc. There are plenty of 7800 developers who actually finish stuff, be happy with them.



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  10. 12 minutes ago, Yak said:

    He must have tremendous skill at being able to talk himself up. He does appear to have been able to walk into some plum jobs along the line (assuming there is in fact a kernel of truth in that he worked at MGM, EA and Bullfrog, though not necessarily that he did all he claimed at those places). And yet he doesn't really seem to have produced much of anything in terms of tangible results, AvP apart. At least in gaming, can't speak to the side of things where he was Captain Littlegirlsocks who got his commercial pilot's license at age 20.


    Somehow he manages to wring these endorsements out of people and convince them he's some kind of genius. It's really peculiar. And harmful, too, if upcoming devs look to him for industry expertise and guidance that just isn't there.


    I think I find it all specifically weird because the scene he fixates on - Atari in the Jag era - is a place where I actually was, and I knew a lot of the people he talks about, and the story he tells about his central place in it all is so at odds with my actual lived experience that it makes my brain hurt.


    But yeah, I too wonder how so many journos (and, it seems, business people too) have just bought into it all without checking out the facts. I guess the gift of the gab backed up with a few kernels of truth goes a long way. 

    We just went through a similar thing with a different individual who managed to fool a lot of people into thinking he was a legitimate "expert" on gaming:



    Both Jane Whittaker and Kieren Hawken appear to come from the same mold. the main difference being that Jane actually did some legitimate work in the industry (and, of course, the strange sock fetish). Just like what happened with Mr. Hawken, Jane's lies are going to catch up with him.




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  11. 11 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

    Blah blah blah....pointless endless reposting of links that prove nothing...blah blah blah.

    At this point you're simply arguing with yourself. If the President and CEO of Atari saying that it was too expensive isn't enough to convince you, then nothing will. Frankly, my patience has been completely eroded here. Go ahead and pat yourself on the back for getting the last word in, I'm done.



    • Like 5

  12. 6 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

    All right there^ for anyone that actually has a valid disagreement with sources. Please ignore the frankly trolling clutter that may pop up. They clearly dont have any sources.

    I already provided the only source that matters - Sam Tramiel himself stating that the cost of including a CD drive in the Jaguar at launch would've made the console too expensive. Everything else is pure conjecture, and frankly, all of the sources that you've provided have only been you tilting at windmills. 


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  13. 2 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

    Still no links, still not addressing the (only) sources posted, or the false previous claim cd drives were expensive in 95, you have zero(hmmm) ground, nothing at all.


    Also the 3DO initial high price was to try and prevent bleeding money but you lie and deceive a lot. Also have no clue what you're talking about. Regardless still no sources or links, still not addressing what was posted. Poor guy, it must be hard.


    Let me when you have any sourcess I mean you won't but if a miracle happens....


    I mean at this point you might as well just say you have no clue what you're talking about. Why even try if you cant get this basic information right?

    You truly do live in a fantasy world. The information I already provided serves as proof enough that your claims are simply wrong, and nothing that you provided proves otherwise. 


    4 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

    The only thing they did in 93 was a market test.

    A "test release" of finalized hardware, and most of the resellers ignored any test market restrictions that Atari intended anyway. One of the members of my Atari user group in Austin, TX purchased the Jaguar the weekend of its "test release" at a local store. Furthermore, as best as I can tell, there was no official nationwide release later on, so for all intents and purposes, the Jaguar's official release was in November of 1993.



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  14. 10 minutes ago, Zerosquare said:

    Also, he seems to think that the Jaguar (from a cash-strapped company that no longer had anything else to sell) can be compared to the 3DO (backed by big companies like Panasonic, who could afford to invest a lot and sell at a loss).

    To be fair, 3DO's business model hindered the price point of the system. Had 3DO manufactured the system themselves, it could've been sold at a loss, but you simply couldn't expect a 3rd party like Panasonic to do so. Panasonic, to the best of my knowledge, wasn't getting royalties of all 3DO games sold. Hence, why it cost so much when it was first released. 

    • Like 4

  15. 1 hour ago, Bill Loguidice said:

    It may very well be the truth, but we do know that Atari in this era made some pretty incredible claims at the time to try and make things sound better than they really were like the Jaguar's power relative to the Saturn and PS1 and other infamous statements. This could very well be the same type of marketing spin to make their lack of vision and/or inability to get the CD out earlier seem like a good thing they were doing for consumers more than anything else. In other words, while that is indeed something they officially stated, it doesn't mean it's the truth with something like this.

    There's a big difference between making fanciful claims of the Jag's power relative to its competitors and talking about the probable retail price of a system with an included CD drive. Where Sam got his information regarding how powerful the Jag was, we'll never know, but him saying the Jaguar's retail price with a built-in CD drive was too expensive is another matter entirely. I don't buy it being a lack of vision as it was well known that a CD drive would be coming well before the Jag first launched. Just look at Atari's first official Jaguar announcement here.


    4 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:

    Just as I said, didn't address the links at all, ignored most of the post, and also ignored that the price was for consumers buying an individual unit, not corps buying in bulk. 


    No comment on the below $100 consumer price in 95 either, since 1995 JagCD "had" to be that price because "cds were still expensive" which was proven false but strangely omitted. Hmm.


    And considering it's not just pc drives but pretty much any device using cds, this tax that only applies to Atari (for some reason?) Doesn't add up. 


    Still no explanation how one CD drive in cheap times in 94 would make Jag launch at a post launch 93 3DO of $500 or a 94 3DO drop price at $400. 3DO was expensive for a reason and the CD drive was not the cause, so why would Atari lacking the issues the 3DO had that inflated it's price, match the 3DOs price in either case because of a single CD drive which consumers could get dirt cheap and companies should get even cheaper? Doesn't make sense. Where is this $300 or $200 premium coming from? 




    I like how Atari is the only one with this problem too. Every other CD devices drives dropped in price or didn't launch with $300 premiums.



    Again, you're flailing about in circles with your argument, and seem to be forgetting that Atari launched the Jaguar in 1993. None of the links you have provided have done jack in proving that the Jaguar could've launched with a low-cost CD-based console at the same time as the Jag's actual launch.



    • Like 3

  16. 14 minutes ago, Leeroy ST said:



    Consumer models, $200 in 92. Not a professional company with connections buying in bulk.


    Prices rapid decline does not stop in 92 continues in 93, Jaguar still not launched yet. Declines even further in 94 before and at the Jaguars launch.


    The part that makes no sense is thinking a built-in CD Jaguar would have a bump making it $400-500 at launch. No matter how you want to spin it.


    Sure Its likely some from a small group will definitely try to justify this with no actual counter to the cited article but the fact is you could get drives, as a CONSUMER, IN 1992 for $200, and prices continued to fall on both the consumer and professional end year to year 


    The historical and objective price decreases dont stop after 92 because some people want them to. They happened. 


    A $149 Jaguar CD in 1995 was nothing more than Ataris incompetence, at a time of $150-$250 better built and faster 4-6x drives that same year and 2X being bargain deals in a deal bucket at the front of the store.


    It's not an indicator of anything.

    Fine, you can disbelieve me all you want, but let's see what Sam Tramiel had to say about it back in his interview with Next Generation magazine in 1995:




    Keep in mind that this interview was well more than a year after the Jag's initial launch. He himself is saying that a Jag with a CD drive would be $300 - $400 in comparison with its then price of $159. As we know, the Jag CD that launched in September of 1995 cost $149, although it did come with a separate power supply plus some pack-in software. So, let's be generous here in regards to price, and assume that integrating the CD drive into the system would cost Atari no more than $100 more than a year before this interview. That would give the Jaguar a base price of $350, which at the time would've made it significantly more expensive than most other previous console launch prices, with the few exceptions being systems that didn't exactly set the world on fire. Atari had been clear from the outset that they had a price target for $200 to $250 for the Jag's launch price. 


    I think it's safe to say that the Jag with an integrated CD-ROM drive AT THE BARE MINIMUM would have cost $350, or more likely $400 at launch. Again, a far cry from the "minor bump" in price that you seem to be clinging to.


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