tripletopper

I was just trying to remove bias from the poll. If I posted it on the INTV side, the poll would heavily favor INTV. If I put it on the 5200 side, it would favor the 5200. Both sites have a link to system neutral turf. ut still AtariAge.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285445-ambidextrous-controllers-index-finger-where/

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285445-ambidextrous-controllers-index-finger-where/

Me and Mr_Me had a little difference of opinon. I thought the Intellivision was awkward for having the thumb on the bottom button and the index finger on the top (assuming both front/top buttons and back/bottom buttons are mirrored, which is not the case for INTV.) He said he would like the right fire on top and left fire on bottom, I though a) he plays d-pad right, and b) prefers the 5200 setup over the conventional INTV setup. I think I might have been wrong on both accounts. He admits he prefers the Thumb below setup> Being Left-d-pad follows from that fact. Which got me thinking, who designed their controller right, Intellivision with the thumb on the lower/back button, or the 5200 with the thumb on the top/front button> This is with the index finger on the other side. Only consider this aspect of ambidextrous joystick design. Don't consider what the intended functions are currently and separately. Also assume games with a more obvious left and right action compared to main and aux action can be defined by pressing one button to hit a target on the right, thus defining the right fire button in Tutankham and setting left as the other. Also assume the 5200 case, where both front/tops are mirrored sideways, and both backs/bottoms are mirrored sideways. Personally, I'm a 5200 ergonomics guy, and this is coming from someone who grew up with a Colecovision and no other system until the NES.

If you can show me where there is NO case where you either need to press 2 different of 3 or all 3 at the same time, AND in no game would pressing T or BL instead off BR mess up your game if your fingers aren't synched up perfectly, then you made a case for THIS controller adapter. However, all one would have to do is find ONE example of either one of those 2 cases, then I contest that it's not electronically original. If there's only one game or a few games that uses it, you have to decide if that's a compromise you can live with. Like the one 8 player Sega Genesis Soccer Football game only available in Europe and Brazil that uses more than 4 6 button-controllers, then you can reasonably assume that 4 6-button is the most you'll EVER need, unless a) you have more than 3 friends, b) who want to play 5-8 player soccer football (Bomberman I am a living example of 10 player couch co-op. I'm Mr Party Man, but Soccer Football, not sure.) c) have either a Foreign Genesis or foreign adapter, (even though I heard a Genesis Game Genie can play foreign games, just type in no codes) and d) the 6 button controls let all 8 players do something lesser controllers can't (if x, y, z, and mode call plays, only each team captain needs that to control bots, if they're acitons in games, then all 8 player would need one for a full experience.) I have Double Dribble, which is 8 players, but it's only a 3-button game. Likewise for Repro JagPro controllers I bought, the only game that one could argue for more than 2 JagPros is NBA Jam Tourunament Edition, and that game can be played on MANY other systems. I highly doubt that my friends have a specific Jaguar NBA Jam itch to scratch. So as soon as I get it, I'll sell my excess. Likewise, unless there is a foreign game for the Sega Saturn which uses more than 2 3D controllers, 2 is the most I'll ever need. I'll sell my excess on Ebay also. If there is one, is it too dependent on language to be enjoyable by foreigners, like us (meaning me and my offline friends, not implying the whole AtariAge readership/authorship.) Americans are to Japan? If so, unless you can pick up hearing or reading native Japanese well, it might as well not exist. Although musical cues like the different mode themes in Chu Chu rocket would make it easier for foreigners, even if we bought a foreign version. So I'm not a total gaming jingoist, unlike the average Japanese game buyer, where Sega was perceived as an American company in Japan and always failed in Japan. Same with Xbox. Name one successful American system in Japan. The closest thing was when Sega of Japan exerted muscle on the Saturn, and then their legacy went down the toilet, even though they had 2 great generations in Europe and Brazil and overcame a big deficit in America despite playing against a cutthroat monopolistic Nintendo of America. The Saturn's US failure even cancelled out Sega of America's Dreamcast success. Sega started as an "east meets west" company if you know Sega history. American money hiring Japanese labor to build games for American servicemen stationed in Japan.

I'm assuming you're a "d-pad right" kind of guy. At least on INTV. Me too And for WAY more than just INTV. Almost everything I haven't developed good muscle memory for through years of the industry drumming in left-stick ever since the NES became popular i prefer a right handed stick. You're also holding it opposite of what INTV considers natural. Thumb high, Index low. INTV Assumes index high, thumb low. At least the 5200 got the ergonomics of that one right. What you have is basically a Colecovision setup. And unless something in the INTV joystick language prevents 2 button presses, then I'd want L+R=Genie Wish Bomb. But if there is, then the unused bottom button would be better than a keypad. Don't want to "take your hands off the wheel". A hypothetical 5200 version of Tutankham, as well your setup, Mr_Me, would have to have you define shoot right at the beginning by pressing the right button, which is the bottom button if you're right stick, or the top button if you're left stick on the 5200, and the opposite for INTV. Because both halves mirror each other horizontally, and usually the concept of "main" and "aux" is heavier on the 5200, you need this button setup on games with an obvious "left action" and "right action". If you had to manually press each shot, that would be killer. Thank you developers for rapid fire naturally in the game. And both buttons together are Genie Wish Bomb.

This adapter is $32 dollars $5 for each of 2 adapters, and $11 for each of 2 specific power cord adapters. The OTHER GENESIS TO INTV ADAPTER (also has a Jaguar to INTV version) is available at http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279920-controller-adapters-to-use-jaguar-or-genesis-controller-on-intellivision/ has $20 each completely built, but you need to add 2 Micro USB cables, one USB Power adapter, and (if you have Flashback controllers) you need 2 for $10 adapters from Nurmix. costs $57. For the extra $25/2 players ($15/2 players if you don't need INTV 2-> INTV FB adapters) you get simul-presses, 3 independent buttons, a pause button where the start = 1+9 simultaneously, and being able to use a real INTV controller without replugging everything, and using the original overlays.

About Tutankham and pinball, I assume the Bottom left and bottom right are 2 different buttons, and left is left flipper/shoot left, and right is right flipper/shoot right. and i guess either top button (because you have a third button available) or BL+BR (because that's how they do it on Colecovision) is genie wish bomb. The reason why I ask is because most modern games, when you flip to right handed, make the buttons flip horizontally, so that in Street Fighter, your light attacks are on your index finger, middles on middle finger, and heavies on ring finger, no matter which way you hold the stick. How does INTV deal with flipping? It doesn't, it assumes you use default controller, love it or hate it. :S Would you say most INTV games have a concept of a left and right button or primary/secondary/tertiary? The problem is if you use a fight stick, and you define the left stick as "normal" and have 3 buttons laid out (S T BL BR), then flipping it in the traditional would be : (BR BL T S), which makes left to fire right and right to fire left. So it's kind of depends on what would be both the primary left stick fighting arrangement, and what would be the right. IF (S T BL BR) is normal for left handed, then is the right stick considered (BR BL T S) OR (BL BR T S)? So more games uses a Left/Right model than a primary/secondary/tertiary model, i suppose. By the way on a P/S/T model, is the left button button considered secondary, or the right button, so is left clawing/ right d-padding considered the baseline normal, and the other an also ran? Atari 5200 is a truly 2 button ambidextrous setup, there's a bottom button and a top button, but you have an index finger and thumb. Your index finger is always on the bottom button, and thumb is always on the top button, hence the bottom button is always the "main" button, and the top button is the "aux" button. Colecovision Super Action has a similar ambidextrous setup for 4 buttons. But games with a definite left and right shouldn't be played with a Super Action Controller, like Tutankham, (Stick, Left Fire, Right Fire) vs (Right FIre, LEft FIre, Stick). But then again, Front Line works right in a right handed setup: (Grenade/Board/Abandon tank, Rotate ACW, Rotate CW, Rifle/Tank fire Stick) works right right handed, but doesn't work right on a traditional left-stick setup: (Stick, Rifle/Tank fire, Rotate CW, Rotate ACW, Grenade/Board/Abandon Tank) Since you're going up mainly, CW is right and ACW is left... unless you "cover your 6", then it makes sense.

By the way, 7800fan, the builder of these devices and original posted, told me in a private message his reason why he hasn't been answering this forum recently. I'll let him tell it when he's ready. But assuming what he says i true, and I have no reason to believe it's not true, so I'll assume it's true, (a default position that would go a long way in building friendships), he has a perfectly cromulent reason why he's not answering. And it's not a slow boat from China. Meanwhile this other forum has them available now. It's a little cheaper, but doesn't have simul-presses. People have to decide if it's worth it now.

I guess you get what you pay for and pay for what you get. This Sega -> INTV adapter is good for quite a few games. Also you don't have to provide an INTV controller for the keypad. But any game that requires simultaneous button pressing will not work. (How many are there? I don't know) Also how many game will misfiring a BR as either a T or BL would cause problems? (Again, I don't know how many.) This one costs $5 (device + S/H) plus a $11 power cord (Plus device + S/H) which you must get separately x2 = 32. The other one is $10 each assemble it yourself, or $20 pre-assembled. ( I think you may have to provide one USB micro to power cord or USB micro-> USB + USB -> Power) so $20 x 2 + $5.00 for one dual USB to power adapter + 2 X$1 micro usb to usb cable=$47 Plus I'm going to need extra 2 INTV 2-> INTV FB cables. $32 vs $57, and the $57 lets me use original overlays and has 3 independent buttons. Is it worth it? I guess you decide. As for me, I'll pay the extra $25 and be sure I can play EVERY GAME, and not having to unplug it every time I need the 16 way controller. Can't be too sure I won't encounter games with simultaneous pushes, and I have found quite a few "white label" INTV games, including a couple rare ones, for $1 a piece many years ago at the second degree Goodwill outlet , the stuff that doesn't sell at the main Goodwill stores. So i'm more likely to have a multi-press game, as they are newer games.

1) Any update? 2) A different person has a Genesis to INTV adapter, but there's one problem with theirs: it is at most a 2-button joystick. T and BL are the 2 independent buttons and pressing them both gives you BR. That would be good as long as you don't need simultaneous multi-presses. 2a) Does your adapter have 3 independent buttons? 2b) Do you know enough about INTV games to know whether the 1=T 2=BL 1+2=BR arrangement will not work for some games. I guess it depends on if the INTV joystick language only understands one button at a time, or whether all 3 buttons are independent. I know enough about the INTV joystick language toknow that each joystick pin is a bit in a 6 or 7 bit arrangement, and pressing the wrong combination of things makes for weird game results.

But the problem is you throw away a key tenant of gaming at that time. Something I wish was still in place today with fight sticks. The Astrocade, INTV1,2 and 3, Colecovision Standard and Super Aciton, the Emerson 2001, and the Atari 5200 and 7800 are designed to be ambidextrous. Fortunately for Atari 2600 fans, even back in the day, there were left handed alternatives, from lefty pin-swap adapters, to mirrored single buttons, to (on the Atari 800 computers) software-based lefthanding. Don't destroy one of the good things done with that controller.

I don't want to sound like nitpicking, but isn't there supposed to be 3 independent buttons on an Intellivision, where you can press any 1, any 2 or all 3 at the same time? Doesn't the Genesis stick have a native 3 button arrangement, where the 3 buttons can be mapped to A, B, and C? ( I think I understand the Intellivision joystick language enough where I think it understands either one keypress, one specific pause two-key combination, or any combinaiton of 16 diretions and 3 independent action butttons, and pressing a key and one other control has weird side effects?) Can you press all 3 action buttons and the joystick at the same time, and have registered o the INTV control language? (or one keypad button, or the pause combo?) So in theory, there are 3 buttons, Top (TL+TR mirror each other) ,BL, and BR. Are there games where BR could be confused with BL+T? Also what about games that use T+BR, or BL+BR, or T+BL+BR? Also would there be games where if they are not pressed at EXACLTY the same time, it can cost virtual lives? I understand the desire to make it SMS compatible, but I believe every game that uses 2 buttons uses the top and mirrored bottoms. I don't know whether simultaneous independent BL+T is more common than 3 button games, but the only way THAT mode would work is if you KNOW only one button will be pressed at once. But making it compatible with the 2600 is clever and makes one button games work, and I believe on all of them, all 4 buttons are mirrored. I would be glad to buy one, once you get 3 actual independent buttons instead of defaulting to SMS mode, or you can convince me that the INTV joystick language only allows one button pressed at a time. I know i don't understand it fully. Maybe there is a limit of one button at a time that I'm not aware of.

The secret is buy low, take what you want for cheap, and sell the rest high on ebay. I told Imstarryeyed quite a few Saturn bargains I found over the year. And the day that fun seemed to end....

Thank you ImStarryeyed, I bring over 12 controllers and 2 multitaps for Bomberman. We have social gaming every so often since my bandwidth at best is 1.5 Mb/s in, 400 kb/s out. So these Bomberman days are really cool. How did I find most of these controllers? I bought them around 1997-2005 when a local "used media store" considered it it low rent garbage? Found a couple for $5 or less, I even found a few thrift store one for $1, I also found House of the Dead for $10, 3 role playing games worth $50+ each complete for $1 each, plus lots of smaller victories and that's just Saturn alone. Until.... ...."Thrift Shop" by Macklemore. Thank you Macklemore for popularizing thrift shops so much that video game deals are hard to come by. I think that song release is the lynchpin event that turned thrift stores from treasure hunts into garbage sifts. I don't think I ever had a "monster find" ever since that song came out. Even since then I had to find "small victories". So it's safe to sell a 3D controller, since the most you'll ever need is 2, and I got 13 controllers, (14 if you count the fight stick), 3 of them 3D. (the most I really need is 10 for Bomberman, but 12 is good in case anyone has the urge to play 6-on-6 NHL Hockey something.)

Do you build to order your PC 15-pin -> 5200 adapters, or do you only sell them if you have them already built up. It says $12 including S/H to anywhere in the US, Do I get a shipping discount if I buy 2 at once? I'd llke to buy 2, especially if there's savings in shipping in buying 2.

For my first trick: I can operate most Colecovision games with a 7800 joystick or joypad. The only caveat is both buttons can't be pressed at once. In most games that makes little difference, but Tutankham would be severely hampered by the lack of a "Genie Wish Bomb". For my second trick: I can operate a 3-button Genesis game with a Colecovision Super Action controller. But there are 2 caveats. One, you can't press pause. And two, one button is the top button on the Super Action Controller. The other 2 buttons are 2 opposite directions on the Trackwheel. Good luck starting and stopping when you want, and forget pressing both at the same time. ( I forgot what mapped to what.) You can do these stupid DB9-controller tricks if you have the proper equipment, too. Nothing special about mine. Maybe someone who is more tech-heady can scientifically explain the reason for this behavior.

"To be described later" turned out to be the second of 2 paragraphs i the last post. Not this post. I got the picture. if I'm going to be verbose, hide it in a hidden section or a spoiler tag.

I don't know if anyone can explain this behavior, but the 7800 Joystick and Pad of mine work on the Colecoviison, except in one specific instance, to be described later, but the Colecoviison controller doesn't work on a 7800, and I doubt either work on a master system or vice versa, due to a different voltage pin. The 7800 controller works perfectly fine for every 1 button CV game, and every 2 button CV game, (assuming you either don't need a keypad, or y-in an external one) EXCEPT if you need to push both buttons at the same time. The most obvious handicap would be on Tutankham, where pressing both buttons together detonates your "Genie Wish Bomb." No bombs on a 7800 controller.

I think I found a solution that is a lot easier, and can be achieved by anyone who know how to do fight stick pad hacking. Step 1: Buy a Bohoki PC 15-pin -> 5200 adapter. they are about $10-15 each. I got 2 analog PC sticks and I might buy 2. Step 2: Buy a 15-pin digital joypad on ebay. They are under $10 including shipping to the US. I'd use a 2-button or a 4 button with 2 regular buttons and 2 turbo buttons. The important thing is that it has a digital D-pad. Step 3: Hire someone to pad hack the PC 15-Pin control to a fight stick. Step 4: Get a gold modded 5200 from Best Electronics to get everything working right on the keypad front. Possible Step 5: Have my fight stick have a 4/8 way changeable gate. There may be errors on games where the radius is greater than 100%, which are the diagonals at full cardinal X and full cardinal Y. That maybe the only error of a 5200 fight stick, and it could be preventable by locking out diagonals. Popeye, Qix, Ms. Pac Man, Vanguard, and other 4-way games might benefit from it.

I saw Rayik has homemade a device which takes Sega controllers on this website and I thought, I don't need the PS2->5200 adapter. All I need is the Sega Master System-> 5200 adapter that Rayik made. (I assume it's SMS, which the Genesis 3and Genesis 6 are both backwardly compatible.) Rayik used the Competition Pro as a basis for his design, employing an external 5200 controller for the 15 keypad buttons and the centering of the stick. I would like to buy one. Maybe other people would like to buy one for their 5200s. Games that need quick centering and distinct 8 way and/or 4 way would work fine with a fight stick with a 4/8 Way selectable gate. I understand I lose substely in analgoness. That's the effect I'm trying to achieve. Also could I use direct wiring instead of dismantling a a SMS pad, a 7800/2600 Pad/Stick, and an Astrocade controller, if the joystick is wired to a DB37 where each pin represents a ground, and various directions and buttons, then someone can build a DB37-> uncoded system adapter, so the 7800/2600, SMS, and Astrocade work fine? I believe everything else needs a processor. And I assume the 2 7800 buttons would need an "Logical OR" connection for the common button in 2600 mode pi, and it would be easy to make button flippers for the 7800 and SMS. Just cross reroute? If if you don't want to make it, is there a place where these plans are posted?

Hello Nox, I got a 2 part question. Do you have a reproducible design where you can hook up to any existing "one-function-to-one-wire joystick" and hook it up like an external PCB? Can you make those if proerply mtviated with money? If so how much? I understand you can't whip it out. How much time will it take? Extra stuff mainly for Nox, hit Show Spoiler to see.

I never saw the idea peddler forum until it was menitoned in this forum. I don't initiate these things usually. I try to find existing projects and see if it can be modified to fit me. The Atari Jaguar Pro Controller Forum, The Phoenix Forum, The PS2-> 5200 forum. I joined these forums because i was interested in them. I patronized the Jag Pro Sale. The Phoenix one I saw and thought it was not right for me now, and questioned why use an HDMI to CRT converter, and demonstrate on a CRT TV, yet it loses its point by having delay on CRT TV. I got an approximate price for the PS2-> 5200, so I'l compare whether it's worth it for an adapter vs getting Matthew Gummo to do an analog digitization or a real 5200 controller. There is another one I want to patronize for $40, but I don't want to mention the other forum in fear of being kicked off that. And everything is right about it. I found another solution to get it working.

Shawn apparently follows me and tries to get me booted off forum everywhere I go then he follows. He's like a cyber stalker and mugger. He has 18K posts. Based on the few other comments he says he likes, he seems like a forum polluter. He likes forums where he gives the biggest zingers. This is the third forum (maybe fourth) he followed me in an (even thought I can't prove it because I can't reenter the forums I've been banned from) he's probably the one who initiated the banning of me. We're even talking about banning as the main subject of the forum, and there is Shawn, ready to strike. Someone should investigate Shawn. Everyone is calm, then he yells a proverbial "off with his head" and stirs up to mob against them. I sense he's trying to do it again.

I said I was willing to pay in advance for services. I'm not asking for free labor. I'm willing to pay whatever cost is necessary, if both of us believe it is reasonable.