tripletopper

There are lots a of musings ahead,+ but it's building up to 1 question? What was the system sales of game formats in various markets. The big one IO'm interested in is "Europe: NES vs 7800.". If you don't like, instead of typing TLDR just scroll, concentreating on the next user ID picture. A lot of people like my novellas on Quora and I'm usually compemented, or reacted to like they read enough. Do like I do when I see thick books, take one glance, see npothing for mew, mand carry on. I'm not a book critic who judges by tit;e, author and length. If you don't read a thing, don't criticize. If you read a tibdit by scanning, either comment on it, and if I amidit, I'll be quick and quote it. Most movies you don't memorize the entire script for. There's usually one "money item:" you remember. Like Wing Commander (the move) being famous for 2 things, being number 1 for having The Phantom Menace preview, and showing in the preview a video of everything stppped and the camera moving through the human statue garden using complex 3D-video-game-like camera moves. If you found a "money item" quote it (even if it's cheesy like "a great swordsman needs a great sword") There's more details, and more questions, but I know lenght scares. That's why I asked the main one up front. Tnagential ones would be nice, but that's like acknowledging Abe Simpswon's ramblings. Usually not expected. Hello, found this article when trying to find sales figures of NES vsSMS vs 7800. In America, NES had 90-95% of the market. For whatever was left, Atari outsold Sega somewhere betweww 2:1 and 3:1 I don't see records of the 7800 being sod in Japan>.0 Wikipedia has 2 markets listed PAK (Europe) and USA. Sega was to Brazil what Nintendo was to Japan and USA. I know, that in Europe, there were many what are called today in America "non-PC" computer formats made up most of the market. Even though Sega was big against Nintendo and Atari 7800 (but not the 2600 or 5200).when youfactor in the computers, it was probably nt the number 1 format, and as a Percentage of the whole market, it looked like the "winnewr" got 20% if thewy were lucky. Reminds me of the pre-crash market where there wete 8 CONSOLES (not including computers) still in active manuafuture and promotion. As a single year, when they all were gung ho, what percent diod they get just before the crash: (Atari 2600 was the winner if you define anything with a changeable ROM before the NES as one generation, and counted the combined generation grand totals from Farichild Channel F onward. Personally, I'd spllit hewm at the Intellivision, because if anything [other than the Neo Geo of its day, the Bally Astrocade under Bally's ownership] defines a next generation console, it is advertising itself as better than the old because it's newer. PLus Intellivision invented the Console Wars long before "Genesis does what Nintendon't". They learned by experiencing it from the wrong end. The first ever in history [at least in certain industries, like toys, and games, and maybe entertainment media. I never heard records, books, TV shows, or Movies compare itself to others by directly referencing the other's name in the ad. I've heard of "vs Brand X" and "vs. the leading brand" stuff like that before] was used against Mattel, the Coleco LED Football comparison commercial, actually using the name Mattel, and giving reasons why nit's better than Mattel's version.). Again in the last year, when there were 8 (9 if you count an unauthorized enhancer for an existing system that has its own games, and the enhancer was made by a different company, not counting 4 or 5 different computers) What percentage did these get? (local only to that year): 2600, 5200, INTV, CV, Vectrex, Astrocade, Odyssey 2, Arcadia 2001, Supercharger. Between these and the Computer Software, (Apple iie, Atari 800, Commodore Vic 20, Commodore 64, TRS-80, TI 99A, IBM, Timex Sinclair) unless you owned everything, there would about easily 75%+ of Electronics Boutique you'd skip. (Any I forget?) By reading here, you said "Still supported Retro formats" (2600, 5200, Colecovision are names I recognize that were thrift store fodder in the US until the Macklemore song combined with people actively seeking old format games, hoping to either complete a set, or Ebay-flip, made thrift stores either a game desert or made them price Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt/ World Class Track Meet combo like it was Red Sea Crossing) were still selling. Were those systems being made? If new copies of these systems stopped being made before 1985, were new games beig made for these retro systems? IF no, how did these systems still show up n sales figures to be significant? what was the relative rank and percentage of the European Market when counting: A. NES, SMS, and 7800? B. A + Computers C. A + Retro Consoles D. A + B +C IF you'd rather answer with just one word and ignore the rest, answer who won the battle in Europe between NES and 7800?

Thank you Mr_me, As I said, the problem is avoidable if you have a sub 1 ms monitor. And Yes, if I’m going to buy a low ping TV for Xbox One Switch gaming, it’s nice that the Phoenix can use that monitor and be FOR HUMAN PURPOSES low ping. (not for light gun purposes.) But then I got the issues of CRTs for light gun games. But that could be solved if the 2 experiment Neo-light gun enthusiasts decided to cooperate instead of compete. They each got a half of the whole solution. One solved getting old consoles to light gun interface with modern TVs, but using a Wii Mote. The other truly simulated light gun accuracy by taking a visible light picture and computing "the when" that retrogames use based on "the where", but only works on PC emulations. Please combine! And for 3D. I cannot find a combined Low ping + Shutter 3D monitor unless it involves a PC to do the 3D. My idea for an external 3D processor would restore balance to the 3D world. Instead of relying on a TV maker to include 3D, instead you do out and find the best 2D TV you want, and THEN add 3D. Not more complaining about size, ratio, refresh rate, display technology, ping time, any anything else AND limit yourself to 3D Built in. There’s a reason why Dolby and DTS sound solutions are separate from the TVs they attach to instead of coming pre attached. If you bought a TV on combined vision and sound, and they came bundled, you’re going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere, whether its quality, features, price, or makes you choose between great sound and great picture, or something would turn you off to it. That’s why built-in 3D failed, because it either added expense people didn’t want, or people perceived a good 3D TV as a bad 2D TV, or more recently they only put it on the #1 top model, but enough Top Model purchasers hate 3D becuase they don’t want the effect. What’s easier, polarizing a non-polarized TV, or adding an external shutter syncher? If you ever played Sega Scope 3D, which didn’t require a specific television or connection to get 3D, then you know the answer is Shutter. (unless someone can make a case that it’s better to add polarization to a screen that’s currently not polarized. I don’t see the answer, but if you got something better, try me.) Is there any reason why the #1 selling single model 3D Blu Ray displaying Display was the Playstation 3D Display? It started as the cheapest($500), it ended as the cheapest ($180), it had 1080p 240 Hz, unusually good for a 24 inch screen, and the ping time was good in 2010, at 33 ms, the quickest available at the time? Sure, there were bugs like native 4x3 pictures not displaying right in HDMI but that’s why we kept a 4x3 CRT TV anyways. Name me a better, lower ping, preferably shutter based 3D model.

Sorry, I’d like to simplify. If there was a way you can add 3D to any TV, that would go a long way in helping me. Then I don’t have to have a separate low-ping monitor and a 3D monitor. I could buy a 3D processor and route all my content through it and to a low ping monitor, then that would be great. My device would be a simple passthrough which would add about a millisecond or less of ping, which is nothing unless you’re talking a CRT Light Gun Game, which we’re not because we’re talking modern TVs. Also there are 2 retro light gun solutions that work with a modern TV that may 100% obsolete the CRT TV. One solution uses consoles, but uses the Wii Mote method which is highly inaccurate, though precise. Then there is visible light camera gun method, but that only works with PCs. If they can somehow combine those efforts, and finally deal with the Sega Master System 3D then I can throw out my CRT TV for good. (probably if a low ping monitor that can accurately deal with 480i and 240p in 1 ms.) And yes, you’re right, if the Phoenix outputs in 1080p, then just simply converting the 1080p to 480i would ruin the whole point of 480i. If it would be 480i, yet it would be extremely high ping on a CRT TV, then that would not be the desired effect. I don’t love 480i for 480i’s sake. I love it because it’s low ping. I agree: only use the Composite adapter if you can guarantee it being a low ping avenue for gaming. Otherwise, what’s the point? I could buy an HDMI->Composite adapter and get the same effect.

I though, analog outputs would be practical, because you can guarantee a low ping output without having to buy a specialized gaming monitor. Add that to the fact that I already have a CRT TV and a 3D TV, neither of which is easily replaceable, then the Composite option would be welcome on the Phoenix. I just plug into my CRT TV. If the Composite adapter adds ping because the phoenix natively displays in 1080p, then the resolution change kills the exact reason why would want a CRT TV adapter. It’s not because I like lugging heavy TVs. It’s not necessarily because I like the additive effect over the subtractive effect, It’s because they are so low ping, light gun games work. And most HDMI TVs have about 33 ms ping and some even more. If someone can find me a modern gaming monitor with 4 ms or less ping, understands everything from 240p and 480i up to 2160p with a frame rate that can understand 24 fps x 2 eye programs natively, and has shutter scope 3D, then I can replace my Playstation 3D TV with a low ping 3D monitor that can play all my old games. Otherwise I’d have to rotate between 3 monitors. Heck, if it accepts analog inputs, then I can literally use my CRT ONLY for Light Gun games if it’s low ping enough. And that is subject to a good retro light gun adapter which uses a visible light photography system as opposed to a Wiimote system. There is a retro console gun, it just uses the Wiimote method, which is WAY less accurate than light-and-timing based guns. There is a "visible light camera gun", the problem with that is it requires a computer for it to work. It doesn’t work off of retro consoles.

I noticed something. The second one with the dark screen, when I tok out the power plug, the safties were plugging the holes. So i"m surprised I got anything. There are probably only a few systems which don’t make sense if you’re thinking long term. FIrst of all after the SNES most companies were not thinking beyond 5-8 years for a generation. And this was before digital media, so the The Saturn, the PS2, the Xbox Prime, The GameCube, the Wi, The Wii U, (suprisingly) the 360, the PS3 and the Switch I’ve had no problems where I had to send it into either warrantee or independnent post-life repair. Now with digital downloads, they Build in their obsolecense. The Game Boy Advance SP had no replaceable battery, so once the batery died, ytou had a worthless machine> A t least the games weren’t dead because the Game Cube had the Game Boy Advance Player. Then All the DSes had no replaceable battery. Also the Wii U and Switch have no replaceable battery in the screens. Once those batteries die, you have a dead system. Even PS3 and PS4 batteries have no common replaceable standard. At least Xbox IS smart enough to use AA batteries. What are the odds they’ll go out of stock without some sort of acceptable substitute. Like for example I can use C battery plastic shell adapter and put in AA batteries and power my Colecovision Driving controller. I don’t have to rely on rechargeable C batteries. What will last longer as a standard? AA batteries, or the Switch Battery standard? When I owned them in their Prime, I had problems with the NES with the "Monica Problem", Genesis+Sega CD on 2 CD games not working with a Genesis 1 with Aux port and a CD1, the SNES with color issues outputting B/W in Y/C mode (but not until WAY LATER) , the Dreamcast with the security code not being read well, the Playstation 1 with a joystick port broken for using an unauthorized multi memory card, and the Xbox One, which I bought refurbished, which had errors that showed up, even after resetting and reloading the system, but I paid $150 less for my Xbox One , and I upgraded to a One S for $120 and got a Kinect adapter for free so no big loss Actually the Colecovision I owned as a kid worked well. By brother lent it to his friend without my permission who disappeared, so all the poo-pooing of the Colecovision is based on Thrift Store finds and "retro game store" purchases. As for retro purchases, all of them have worked out. I heard most of the horror stories can be avoided if you do just one thing that wasn’t know about back then. For the Astrocade, it was not putting the console on the Carpet. If you never did that, the Astrocade lasts forever. For the NES it was a design problem that is destined to fail that was partially fixed by Blinking Light Win. What is the the one/few things you should either always do or never do and be sure you have a great CV? As for cheap, cheap is not necessarily a bad thing. The Astrocade was its generation’s 3DO or Neo Geo, costing $2200 of today’s dollars, and that had problems if you put it on the carpet. So affordability and consturction quality do not necessarily correspond. The main difference is that Atari and Intellivision have a historical link. Atari had the name "Atari" to trade on, whereas Keith Robinson was a One Man Intellivision Company after a certain point. The closet thing to that for Coleco is Adam’s House, and they had some notoriously bad business practices the later they got in years. The Coleco company died and no one took over for quite a while. Best Electronics was an Atari Repair Shop, Keith did INTV stuff. I don’t think Colecovision had any independent intellectual property other than the System itself. I don’t think Coleco outright owned any game except Super Action Baseball, Soccer Football, and American Football. (there may be more, but I can’t think of them now.) Most were either arcade conversions or game tie-ins to outside IP. That’s why they had no historical link. No one wanted the rights to "just an old system" and that’s all.

The main reason I want analog out is a purely practical reason. If I’m going to beat the speed-up level on Lady Bug, with the way it is currently, I have to buy a THIRD TV, in addition to a light gun TV and a 3D TV I already have. I’ll be playing musical monitors. The analog outputs do two things, allow for future Colectorvision CV light gun games, and use a cheap method of hooking up to a guaranteed low ping TV. I think my 33 mm is too much for Lady Bug, and that was good in 2012, but there’s no way to replace my 3D monitor with a Low-ping 3D monitor, even if I go on Ebay. So the Composite and/or S-Video input can help me put off both the purchase and the day I’ll play musical monitors. But I will purchase a gaming Shutter-based 3CD Monitor, if they make such thing. Or if they don’t an invention similar to Sega Scope 3D can add 3D to existing 2D TVs. The reason why that wasn’t pulled off yet was the problem withccompensating for ping ranging from 1 ms to 100 ms, and expecting a good 3D image on all tof them. Luckily since a light gun is turly a TIMING device in nature, and not a posiitonal device, it can be used to adjust the timing based on the TV to even more accurate than a microsecond, or 0.001 ms And I insist on Shutter 3D. With Polar 3D, if you tilt your head more than 2 degrees, it will make a partial exposure,(Normally, it should be a total block of one of the 2 images), which causes a double image, which confuses your eyes, which causes most of the 3D nausea. My mom is a test case of 3D Nausea being almost nullified by Shutter based 3D at home vs Polar based 3D at theaters. She never took off her 3D glasses at home due to nausea. She requested to move to a 2D showing in the theater. The true test is if she can sit through the 3D version of a movie she loves in 2D, like either Frozen 3D, Tron Legacy 3D, or Incredibles 2 3D and be wowed and not nauseous. Also the 2 biggest culprits of ping are the TV itself, and resolution change, no mater whether it’s uspscaling, downscaling, interlacing, or progressivizing, always cause delay. I have a theory that Press Your Luck for PS3 is natively 1080p, and trying to play in 480i analog adds ping as it has to both downscale and interlace. When why I can’t do m usually Press Your Luck strateguy of starring at the "always big bucks and a spin" square and pressing X the instant I see it. Ping time kills that strategy. I got the ultimate ping test. The only version I can use that strategy on was a Flash game version with a CRT monitor built into iMac. I got 150K and that is an epic feat worthy of game show history, plus Whammy was proud to say they randomized anything, so a Michael Larson pattern would no longer work, yet I was only in the top 100, so a few other people had the same strategy. By the way, #1 got a score of 10 million. I agree game output sources ARE Zero Ping by nature, assuming you play at the default resolution. Some game may not be sophisticated enough to generate content at more than one level natively, or runs differently at 2 specific resolution and be low ping in both. if the Coleocvision is natively either 240p or 480i and the Phoenix is natively generated 1080p, 1) does it really improve the game without working off the 240p/480i master and not have ping to ruin it? and 2) even if Low Ping can be achieved with 1080p working off 240p/480i media, even with a 1 ms TV, why sabotage it when going BACK to 480i/240p. I don’t want a Composite/S-Video for their sakes. I want it because it is low ping.

First of all, I'm not suggesting that an even deal. I know I have to pay SOME money. I'm just looking for a Colecovision repairman who would appreciate a partially-working coloevison as partial payment for repairing + Composite and/or S-Video modding the other. First I know there's a Component Mod, prblem is one of my 2 CRTs AND my current video capture/record/stream card does not support 240pY/Cb/Cr The Hauppauge rocket, I believe converts to 480i and then captures/processes it. How DO I know, I tried to run a Genesis game Video into the component port and if it worked, it would have had a b/w picutre. But it saw no signal, so no. Same with 1 of my 2 TVs. I also know there's a Collectorvision Phoenix which is an HDMI compatible CV with built in Super Game Module built in. The problem is I have a 3D montior which had good ping in 2012, but is considered poor ping for display today. a PS3DTV with 33 ms. here are my 2 Colecovisions and their problems CV1 plays wiht the right brightness, but sometimes has some "rainbow noise + monochrome". The other problem is that some of the characters look funny like Hit boxes are drawn in Front line where a bullet and a greneage look like 2 white lines. and the characters have borderlines, and sometime there are mirage characters that on the screen appear at one place, but in the game exist at different XY coordinates, and sometimes there's flicker between the 2 spots. And it occasionally spontaneously resets or crashes. CV2 Appears to have the characters well drawn and defined, excpet the problem is that the screen look extremely dark, and the few non-black colors closer to dark grey than the saturated colors. And there's again some "rainbow noise + monochrome' Also both have really loud audio hiss static that it's almost as loud as the intended sound effects/music. Based on these things, which is the better candidate for payment, and which is better for the operating room? Based on what I noticed, the Colecoviiosn, even though it was very powerful in it's time, and gorgeous standing still (whereas the Atari 5200 was gorgeous in motion, so the CV is a swimsuit model, and a 5200 was a Cheerleader. One looks better in poses, the other looks better in motion.),was so cheaply constructed that it can very easily get a glitch and it's cost-prohibitive to keep getting major CV repairs after Major CV repairs. The secret to a good Astrocade life is "do not put it on a carpet". The secret to a good NES life is Blinking Light Win. I don't know what the secret to a good Original Coleocvision life is. i've heard so many things can go wrong that if you try to save it in one way, it's in danger another way. Atari 2600 was like $700 inflation adjusted dollars when it came out. Colecovision was like $250 of days dollars, and nothing would get cheaper except Dremacast and Game Cube. Astrocade was like $2000 inflation adjusted dollars. Neo Geo Game territory. If it weren't for possible Phoenix ping issues, in less than optimal LCDs, I would sell these to parts buyers and put it towards a Phoenix. I'm debating whether to buy a low-ping HDMI monitor that has everything except 3D. So an analysis? Based on my description, how much would it cost to trade in 2 Colecos and get one working Coleco, preferably with a Composite and/or S-Video Mod? Vs how much as a "mostly working unit sale"?I assume that's the easiest way to get rid of RF Noise. That's both the audio noisiest and the video noisiest system of the whole NTST-RF-only era systems. Plus the only way you can play with RF on a new TV (assuming it has composite in) is a VCR with an NTSC tuner. By the Way, DVD Recorders may look cool with it's component out, but the ping will kill you. VCRs have no ping. (okay, a Microsecond) Plus it's the only way I'll be guaranteed low ping without buying a 3rd TV in addition to my CRT and my 3D TV. And will the Colecovision need to be repaired over time anyway, or is this the final (assuming no one abuses it.) solution? The answer is probalby the first, so... what's the likelihood of Phoenix working with a CRT TV? Also what's the likelihood of someone making an external 3D processor which turns any regular 2D TV into a 3D TV, like the Sega Scope did back in the day? If eatiehr of those are likely, I'll gravitate towards the Phoenix Also I MIGHT be interested in Super Action Controller repair. I got a quote of as standard joystick repair fee at videogame911.com for coleco controller repairs, but nothing in their message acknowledging that that's the price for repairing Colecovison buttons. I don't know if they're going to gouge me because they usually deal in PS4 and Xbox One controls. It's a $20 analysis fee per item, with the cost being $30 an item, with the first $20 paid for already by analysis fee going towards it. I got possibly 2-4 Super Action Controllers (depending on if my friend wants 2 fresh ones or not). I think the only problems are that some fire buttons don't work sometimes, and one or 2 buttons among 4 controllers don't work at all. I believe the keypad, roller, and joystick work on all of them. Then again I'm getting a fight stick made for a lot of systems, if the keypad and roller work, I could just Y adapter it and use the new fight stick for the stick and buttons, and use the working (minus fire buttons) Super Action as a sidecar ride-along for the keypad and roller. Some of it is just talking to myself hoping someone hears me, second guessing what I need.

I currently got 2 TVs in my basement, and may have need of a third. Why? Because no TV is complete by itself. First you got a CRT TV, which is preferred for retro games because of their ping that’s so low, light gun games play perfectly. That’s the only way. Then you buy a modern 3D Monitor of 3D movies and modern video games from 360 and beyond. There’s only one problem, on some games, I question what is the best way to play. I understand most games are designed to tolerate a little ping, but some games you want every advantage you can get. My 3D monirtor was a great-at-thetime 33 ms ping. But now it doesn’t cut it, hence Low-ping monitors. So If I wanted an "all media monitor" I need to split it up into 3, a sub-microsecond ping TV for light gun games, a 3D TV for 3D movies, and a modern <4ms monitor for modern games. So how do consollidate montiors? Well there are inventions of light gun adapters. The problem is they use WiiMote technology, directly, and I’ve play Ghost Squad enough in "cursorless mode" to know that the line of the gun is never true. You’re just using your arms like an analog joystick. Muscle memory is more important than lining up sights. The only solution to that would be a "camera Gun" which can sense with visible light where you’re pointing towards. There is another ligt gun which deos that. The proble, is it’s PC only, none working with original consoles. If that technolgy were aplplied to consoles as was, then I’d like to try it. Maybe if the low ping TV is low enough for everythign except light gun games, and the light gun games work with true line-of-sight, then’ that consolidates 3 TVs down to 2. Another issue is 3D. If there was a way you can turn any TV into a 3D TV, then I can purchase a 1 ms ping monitor and turn it into a 3D 1ms monitor. Oh wait there already is.. Sega Master System Sega Scope 3D. Those games I still need a CRT TV unless my gaming monitor can to 240p30Hz2eye in native resolution, instead of converting 240p to 480i30Hz1eye (left and right fields combine, losing the second eye) then 480p30Hz1eye. Sorry about that tangent. The Sega Scope is now an unprotected technology. Why can’t there be a device which can convert a 3D Blu Rays, Games, an TV shows into alternate frames and have the external processor alternate frames? Well 3DNow.com tired it and they failed. First in 2012, it was $500 for the converter, when most TVs were "stepping up to 3D" for $100-200. Second I doubt they successfully made one because I see none on Ebay. 3DNow probably didn’t make a model because I can see a problem they may have encountered, various ping times on various TVs. When the 3D is built into the TV, the 3D processor only has to compensate for itself. When being able to be attached to ANY TV, it HAS to accommodate the ping for EVERY TV form a 1 ms monitor to a highly processed 480 Hz monitor (which causes massive ping times) when not in game mode. I got a solution, use a NES Zapper-style single-0pixel sub microsecond CRT Light Gun "camera" and flash on the screen when 3D content first appears to activate "Sync Mode" where for less than .25 seconds, the content is showing left eye as a 100% black frame and right frame as a 100% a white frame. When pointed at the screen, it can tell the processor in more accurate units than microseconds, when to alternate the shutter frames. What sounds easier, adding shutter 3D to any existing TV using similar-to-Sega Scope technology, or polarizing a non-polarized screen. And wouldn’t 3D be more enticing if you just buy a 3D processor and add it to the TV you already have, kind of like the Surround Sound System market for Movies and Games today, as opposed to being in a package deal? And I believe Shutter 3D is superior to Polar 3D. You get full resolution, and can even have 4K3D with no problem. Even though it darkens whites, it darkens blacks at a higher rate, causing a CRT-like image with inky blacks and higher contrast. And if you tilt your head more than a couple of degrees sideways with Polar 3D, the polarization will partially fail, thus exposing both eye to one eye (both eyes possibly), causing double images, which cause confusion of the image, which causes headaches. I have NEVER gotten a 3D Headache with a Shuttervision 3D. The Master System and My PS3DTV give me no contrary information unless the IR glasses are blocked off. Now they got radio syncglasses which removes the IR problem. So until they make a modern TV light gun for retro games that actually feels like a light gun game, instead of a joystick yank, or they make a 3D adapter which turns 2D TVs into 3D ones, I guess, I’ll eventually be stuck with 3 TVs and use them all on occasion. My basement is crowded already as it is,

I guess the ultimate way to test it is find someone who can beat Lady Bug’s Second Cucumber Level. (That’s when it starts going hyper fast enough where fractions of frames will be felt..) On lskill level one, on a CRT TV it's possible to beat because enemies are fast yet dumb. Then see if they do it on an HDMI connection and on an Analog input connector. Go to the 10:40 point of this video to see how this would be a good test of ping time on Colecovision: However if it is low enough lag where proper Gaming (4 ms or less ping) TV display can let you beat that Lady Bug level, then I guess I’ll have to buy a low-ping gaming monitor with HDMI. I’ll ned it for meodern games anyway Then I’ll have 3 TVs, a CRT for Light Gun Games, a gaming monitor for low ping HDMI stuff, and the Playstaiton 3D monitor for 3D movies and games, which had a good-at-the-time 33 ms ping. And that was well before people complained about ping on TV. I would like to buy a Collectorvision Phoenix because it’s a real Colecovision + 2600 + Super Game Module. A Colleoctorvision costs $200 vs $100 for adding a SGM on a flakey CV. If I’m going to buy a new CV, let the C stand for "Collector". But Collectorvision also Sells Super Action Modules for $100. I’ve got 2 "mostly working" Colecovisions, a working 2600 Jr and a working Gemini don’t need if I buy this. I’ll post my 2 colecos on a separate place on AtariAge, and see how much these are worth as parts vs getting them repaired and sold as refurbished. If I want to avoid the Ping issue totally, I can pay for a Composite and/or S-Video Mod. I would do component, but my TV and PVR don't do 240p component. They only do 480i component. So with someone concerned about ping what’s the cheapest option? Sell one CV and have modded the other for composite/S-Video and later add the SGM? Sell both, buy a Collectorvision, and hope the composite adapter is zero ping and buy that? Or do the same, except buy a gaming monitor which I may need anyway for modern games, but that gives me 3 monitors all with "partial purposes", light gun/most retro, 3D, and modern gaming + Collectorvision. By the way, if one doesn’t care about collectability of CollectorVision games, and just wants to play them, what’s cheaper? Buying an Everdrive CV and downloading the games, or buying loose cartridges individually?

I just know a tool-free way to fix one specific problem. There’s a reason why it’s called First Aid. You should do this first, and it normally cures 90%+ of cases. Most cases that don’t work have something deeper, and more fundamental wrong. I just suggested a surgery-free way of curing the most common problem, without risking ruining other parts..

I’m just wondering. That’s a way Atari can make controllers for all markets. The original 2600/5200/7800/Jaguar, the Atari 10400 ( I refuse to call it the VCS when there was already a VCS, It’s just as absurd as Xbox calling their THIRD system the "Xbox One" when usually the first system is usually implied by that name. Now I have to call the real Xbox One, "the Xbox Prime". By the way, t’s pronounced "one-oh-four hundred" like "twenty-six hundred", etc...), The Pc Market, the Mac Market, the iPHone Market, the ndrid Market, the PS4 market, the Xbox One market, and the Swtich market. All they have to do is make controllers for the "native Atari market" so Atari can make 2600 compatible digital joysticks, non-centering 5200 sticks, paddles, trackballs, spinners, rollers, and not have to designate them for a particular market. Then they can sell separate "Stelladapter" for the Atari 10400, PS4, Xbox One, Switch, iOS, Android, PC and Mac, and pay any licensing fees for the the console maker for the adapter ONLY, and then all the controllers to whatever market they want because they are "Atari standard". It’s exactly like Skylanders. Konami makes all the money off Skylanders toys, and there’s no licensing issues about making separate PS and Xbox and Nintendo versions of Skylanders Toys, There are only 2 things that are licensed, the original game, and the interface to make the toys unlock parts of the game. Using that similar model, the adapters give Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft their licensing money, Atari can make all the money off making atari controllers that can be use for real old Ataris, the New Atari, and any of the other consoles they deal with, without dedicating a certain percentage to each market. This is more flexible. It’s exactly the Skylanders model, but it’s more practical than figurines that unlock content within a game. No need to guess how many to make for the Retro Atari market, the 10400 market, , the PS4 market, the Xbox One market, or the Switch market. The only thing you have to guess as far as that’s concerned is for the Stelladapters for those consoles. Heck, maybe Midway Games (now WB Games) can license the trackball for their Marble Madness game and make one that works exactly as intended form the Arcade No more 8 ways or turbo buttons, Finally, if you’re going to do it, do it right, make them ambidextrous. 2600 style joystick is simple, insert a lefty adapter A in there, which rotates the directions 90 degrees. For the trackballl, roller, and spinner, use lefty adapter B, which flips the direction of the controller 180 degrees. For a paddle, use a two button model where you hold the paddles by the thumb and index finger button, and make a switch for one button games, (By the way, I don’t know whether Atari considers the thumb actuation canonical, or the index finger actuation canonical as the main button for the paddle, but in case anyone makes a 2 button paddle game, a switch for AB or BA would be nice.) Since we’re making the paddle have 2 buttons to think about the future, make an 8 button perfectly rectangular layout for the trackball, roller and spinner would be nice so that plenty of future games using these controllers can be made in the future. Or use the layout I suggest in 56ok.org/Ambidextrous/index.htm for my ambidextrous joystick which contours nicely for both left hand and right hand play. And finally, maybe retro system adapters for Astrocade-Wii U would be nice too for the joystick with 9 buttons can appeal to fight game markets. make it with that many buttons and it can be made for Retro systems.

Glad you like @ballyalley By the way, did you read the link to the first one, or are you commenting on the zero-tool method on this forum? By the way it’s not 100% effective. If there’s something deeper or more fundamentally wrong this won’t fix it. But if it’s just everyday wear, this will smooth out the rough spots in the paddle. That’s why I call it "First Aid" Take the least drastic step. You do not do open heart surgery for a paper cut.

I count 5, One for the Atari audience, One for the Astrocade audience, one for the NES audience, and a couple amending my previous comments showing the Astrocade is even easier than I thought before. I thought the information was similar enough but could be applied to multiple audiences where splitting it up would be better. I just thought this would be an easy way to clean pots, and most people were making it too complex without any good reason for the extra complexity. And I have tested it. The jittering stops when I do this. Maybe it's a less permanent way to do it, but it beats risking messing up another part. As for a stale thread, I did what I was supposed to do, use the search and look to see if there was an existing forum covering what I was talking about. Does it really matter whether it’s a totally new thread or waking up a sleeping thread? I tell my friend to look for cheap dial controllers at various thrift stores, as I do myself, and I and revive them using these techniques. It makes no sense to buy non-working controllers on ebay, and hope that’s the error being corrected, and put a lot of risk of capital on the line for very little reward when you factor in shipping on Ebay, That’s why I’m telling this easy secret. This knowledge may preserve these controllers for longer than expected.

This is weird. You have a VERY specific subcategory of classic gaming called NES High Score Club, it would make more sense to have an outer folder for Nintenedo home systems, then a folder within that like NES, Game Boy, SNES, etc. and then wihtin that category NES High Score Club. I agree "Classic gaming" is too general and "NES High Score Club" is too specific. Until the folders get reorganized, the mods said for TG-16 specific questions/topics the TG-16 High Score topic will temporarily do. I thought that wrule was the same. If there were an NES folder that was not more specific than that, I would have posted it there. But the classic gaming heading doesn’t have "NES- General" as the next level lower. I know it’s a chore to reorganize folders. Heck, if average user can add folders, maybe I can do it.

On this website, read my (Tripletopper’s) post to read a no tool method of fixing the Vaus controller. Since Atari 2600 and Astrocade have similar methods, I posted all 3 on the Atari 2600 site. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/6932-jittery-paddles/ This ais a ZERO-TOOL method of fixing the jitters in a Vaus controller. By the way. In the arcade. Arkanoid had a velocity based spinner, like a Tempest controller that can go forever in one rotational direction. At Home the Vaus controller is a position-based limited-radius Paddle, like an Atari 2600 paddle. Has anyone played it in both the arcade and home? Which version do you think controllers better, the speed-based arcade or the dial-a-position home? I like the home one better. I heard there is a Super Colecovision version which uses the Super Action Controller spinner as the Vaus controller. That should be more true to the arcade. Also playing it on Xbox 360 (or One BC) it seems like Vaus moves at a maximum speed that’s fairly slow. There’s almost no need for slow analog movement, because the fastest feels digital, and there definitely is no dial-a-position like NES. Thankfully you can start form the last level with 3 balls, so there is a reasonable chance you can beat the game. I think they made the levels easier so there is even a chance of one-crediting a 360 tour of 31 levels despite your pokey maximum speed. They made that 2 Xbox live achievements.

Here’s a way to lazily with only fussing around with the outer casing of the Astrocade controller: I’m liking to this because the technique is all the same. Make sure you read my (aka TripleTopper’s) post because most of of the other people overcomplicate things, by using needle nose plyers and further disassembling stuff when only one step of disassembly is needed http://atariage.com/forums/topic/6932-jittery-paddles/?hl=%2Bpotentiometers+%2Bfixed&do=findComment&comment=64322 I think I can make it even one step lazier method. 1. Press the joystick on any diagonal. 2. Pour isopropylhol down the joystick shaft inside the hole that’s exposed at the opposite diagona t where you’re pressing. 3. Center joystick (let do diagonal) , then repeatedly turn the knob all the way quickly back and forth 10 times or until any scraping noises are no longer heard. 4. invert controler to dump out alcohol, and play.

@Ian_Primus, you’re right, but you’re messing with too many parts to fix the 260 paddles. You don’t need to take it apart beyond the back casing. Also you can use a similar method for Bally Astrocade and Taito NES Vaus portentiometers Even lazier method of cleaning potentiometers: All you need is a screwdriver to open the controllers, and isopropylhol. Atari 2600: Step 1: Open back of paddles Step 2: Find hole on back which leads to the center of the controller. Step 3: Pour Isopropylhol down that hole. Step 4: Without turning it over turn paddle and dumping the alcohol, quickly and all the way back and forth about 10 times or until no scraping noise is present. Step 5: Dump alcohol out and reassemble. Bally Astrocade: 1: Take off joystick casing. Make sure you notice how the trigger lies becuase it will come loose. 2. The hole you pour the isopropylhol down is the joystick shaft. Complete rest of steps 4-5. Taito NES Vaus Controller: 1. Pop Open the mushroom cap to the right of the dial. 2. Pour isopropylhol into that hole. 3. Lean controller, sloping down to the left, so alcohol flows in to the dial area. Complete Steps 4-5 This is probably the best one-to-zero tool solution for de-jittering potentiometers. Best of all, you mess with none of the other internal parts. You don't need to disassemble anything beyond the outer casing. Even lazier way to do the Ball Astrocade controller. A Zero-tool method. 1. Point joystick in a diagonal. 2. Pour isopropylhol down open hole opposite of direction you’re pressing. 3. Recenter 4. Twist knob back and forth, all the way, quickly many times. 5. Spill the excess alcohol and play.

@grips03 I’m only designing this for me for now. I want this to be Twin Galaxies legal. I think I got it. I can use a trident, and have a direct pin adapter, an INTVFB with 3.5 mm for inputs ad fire buttons, and an intact INTVFB for keypad pressing. By the way one question I just thought of. If I’m getting each individual button on the keypad wired, and I know that 2 particular buttons together are always pause, and knowing the free-flow nature of electricity where a dumb Y adapter can be either 2-in 1-out, or 1-in 2-out there got to be some way to press one without the other, and it’s not a simple switch, but needs brians. What are the 2 buttons that represent pause in every game, (I never owned an INTV in the day, what was the pause combo?) and how do I make that a separate 3.5 mm hookup for their combo in addition to having those 2 individual buttons active. So If it’s 1 and 7, how do I have 3 RCA cables with a 1, a 7, and a 1+7, and have them assigned to 3 different buttons? Maybe I can use direct Pin actuation fof the pins or the "pause combo" (may someone tell me what the pause combo is in terms of Flashback pins?)

I actually heard that that would be the perfect solution to the problem with a tight cartridge with little real estate to grab it. Two problems. 1) The original Game genie will NOT fit in the Blinking Light Win. This is due to the bulge on top of the Game Genie, when you consider it was designed with an inclined cartridge bay of the original. I didn’t want to damage the original Game Genie. Luckily found a Game Genie without the plastic flap. 2) The one without the plastic slap doesn’t fit right in the Blinking Light win. I don’t wknow whehter it;’s hard to keep the dual cartirdge straight or whether the Game Genie will not grip right wwitht eh Blinking Light win. I guess I can try putting in a Game Genie and insert and remove the cartridge externally from the BLW. Ir amke he Game Genie a more permanent addition to the BLW.

Wise fwom youw gwave , forum. I would get a Wico except for most digital games, especially all 8-way games, the Competition Pro works. And in those analog games, don’t like the self centering of the WIco. It’d be easier to accurately dial a position in missile command, Super Breakout, and Star Wars, than to home in on one position and fight resistance. It feels proportional. As for the fire and keypad buttons working, I suggest you go gold, and get 2 Best-Electronics-ca.com 5200 Gold Mods. and use those for anlaog games, 4-way games that have trouble with the Competition Pro, and Robotron and Space Dungeon, and use a Comptition pro fordigital games that don’t err in 4-way play.

I assume if it’s a straight W wiring, 3 in one out, and I follow all the rules of the Intellivision input restrictions, like only having a button and disc actuated simultaneously, no keypad press with anything else or multiple key presses, which I believe its the rule, (correct me if I’m wrong) then the pin logic should straighten itself out, assuming I follow the basic rules and not try a button, key and direction all at once. And my my method has 3 independent buttons, I heard any 2 can activate a "multipress" mode, meaning any 2 buttons or all 3 buttons are all treated the same, right. Whatever the logic of the original INTV controller is, that will be followed, regardless whether it’s all 1 unit or W-ed into 3, right?

Yes I see the wiring diagram, and I see earlier the Flashback Pins. I can use those. I was curious, and just don’t know if it’s possible, if you could have a hybrid Direct Pin for the 8 directions using the circuit on the link above and simultaneously have direct electronic actuation of buttons and keys, simultaneously. If it could be done, I would need a W-splitter, 3 in, one out. One for the direct pins of the joystick, one for the 3.5 actuated buttons, and one for a real flashback controller all running into a flashback modded INTV. Can the joystick be actuated by the logic circuit mention in the last link above, as well as the buttons and keys be actuated by direct pad-hack input, and have a third one accept finger input of keys?

First of all, I’m not converting from a coded joystick PCB. All directions and buttons on my default controller are represented by individual wires. So In theory, I could hook up one direction to one physical direction on the hacked pad. The whole point of the pad hack method is you don’t have to know how the joystick encodes the signal. Just give it a jolt to activate the button. The 3 side buttons can be done that way. I don’t have to know how the machine codes it, let the hacked controller determine what goes on. The Keypad buttons can also be done in that way. I can have 3.5 mm females installed and let one particular fight stick button equal any of the 12 keypad buttons by making the 3.5 mm connection. All it needs is an electrical impulse to active the button. The problem with the direct pin method for directions is that N pin + E Pin <> NE Code. Instead N Pin +E PIn = NNE code. I could use the first link @wongojack made to make a correct 8-way hookup. I found the name of a part I need to order 3 of for the directions. The problem with direct hookup is that I only have 4 directional inputs, and most consoles work on the basis of diagonals equalling 2 adjacent cardinals. There are 16 regions, and I need 8 of them, but to activate 8 separate regions, I need 8 separate wires for each of the 8 regions If I were to make a diagonal with direct actuation, I have to turn on the diagonal, and turn off the cardinals when diagonals are activated. If someone knows a way to build a logic circuit to convert to 4-cardinal to 8-cardinal+diagonal then the 8 directions can be wired to the 4 cardinals and 4 secondaries, with the secondaries being separate, and therefore locking out the cardinals wen a diagonal was active, that would be appreciated. It also seems weird to use both a direct pin method for the directions and the pad hack method for the buttons and keys. I would prefer the logic circuit which I discussed in post 1. By the way, when using the pad hack method, where and how would one wire the diagonal wire? There’s got to be some point where you wire the electrical impulse generator to "turn on" the secondary, and the primary, separately, and avoid the tertiaries.

Okay, so I don’t need to take apart an INTV controller for anything except using outside buttons to actuate a few keypad presses. I assume for keypad presses I can have 3.5 mm connectors on the buttons, and have those wires plugged into fight stick buttons. Since my INTV 1 is flashback modded, and I have a spare Flashback controller to be taken apart, i could wire 3 buttons directly to the 3 buttons on the side. (Which button is repeated on both sides, the top or bottom? I guess I could look at the various overlays until I find an example, and see which row is the same on both sides and which is not.) and wire 3.5 mm connectors to actuate keypad presses on the fight stick. Plus if I need an actual pad to use an overlay, I could just use a DB9 to wire it. Finally, I just use the Flashback pins. since everything p to the FB->INTV 1 hookup is flashback that would work. I assume I just have to supply a 5V adapter, like a USB cable and a USB cable to AC power receptacle adapter. Then I could power those 3 chips which combine to make a secondary pin actuated to get a secondary diagonal, and avoid tertiaries. Plus my DB 37 has one pin designated as Voltage, would I run the power through the voltage pin or is the voltage separate form the DB9 scheme of the INTV to power the diagonalizer? I could run a USB cable where it says internal connection if my joystick guy can only operate on Joysticks and not on Colnsoles. And if I’m wiring 3 buttons using the pad hack method, then I don’t the extra 5 V and 4.7K something to activate fire buttons. Did I successfully find the parts needed? https://www.mouser.com/_/?Keyword=7400+Quad+NAND&FS=True Are they as simple of hoking up 2 inputs and one output of each chip? Finally, If I want to take it to a Sears Super Telegames, or INTV 2, I just plug a FB->INTV2 adapter on the end closest to the machine, and bring my flashback pad.

Okay, I looked at he links, and saw the cardinals are simple run-throughs, and the diagonal are combinations of the 2 cardinals + a third pin which differentiates it between NE and NNE, but if the third pin is activated with one cardinal only then it’s a different tertiary input. So you only want the pin to activate when a diagonal is activated, and not when a cardinal or neutral is actuated.I assume those numbered circuits are standard parts where you wire 2 inputs and the circuit does its intended job and are available at mouser.com , among other places. For the buttons I got 11 buttons (remember fight stick) So I could designate 3 of those buttons as straight wired into the 3 button pins and the extras is only for a master systems converting 2 buttons into 3. As for the keypad, I can wire in a 3 in-1-out connector have the circuit for the joystick and buttons, have a keypad for straight pressing, and dismantle another keypad with 3.5mm connections for a few key buttons to be key keyboard presses for Mouse Trap where 1I can ahrd wire 4 buttons to be, 2, 3, and 5, used for doors and dog. Finally is Flashback mapping a horizontal mirror opposite to the Original INTV 2 hookup? Is so then 1=5, 2=4, 3=3, 4=2, 5=1, 6=9, 7=8, 8=7, and 9=6, right?