tripletopper

This is like really cool. How much for one pre-assembled and ready to plug in my PS2 joydstick/pad and a 5200 console? I assume you can have the top and button action button mapped to anything the user wants. If that's the case, then everyone who orders one would be happy. I think Tototek can custom wire their adapters for whatever one setup you want most. We'll find out by december 1st, if it's easy for Tototek. I'd asume it'd be easier for you becuase you make one at a time as they are ordered and paid for. First I understand in most games, the keypad is desgined to have slow deliberate access, which means in most games, you don't need the keypad in the heat of battle. I understand mapping keypad buttons may be extra. Having said that, if the overlays indicate the most common buttons that need to be accessed, then the most common one is 0. I know countermeasure only uses the 1,2,3 buttons for the "end doomsday" code, and that is a separate mode where you don't need to mix keypad, joystick, and buttons, but Realsports Soccer can reasonably use 1,2,3 and high medium and low kicks. 0 is used for ground kick in the heat of battle. By the way in realsprots soccer, do different keys active different players on the team, or is it like a single defensive switch button that takes control of the nearest guy to the ball? That will determine if all I needed is the 4 button mapped, or whether it's futile to map one "switch player"button for Soccer when there are 6 different ones.. I believe football is play calling in the huddle. Baseball, Star Raiders, and Space Shuttle has way too many different buttons to fit on an 8 button PS2 stick, those 3 games should be played with your adapter as an external keypad. If adding keypad presses to the PS controller is expensive, I might just want to do zero, or no keys at all, but it's it's relatively cheap., I'd like the following mapping [] ^ R1 L1 X O R2 L2 becomes 1 2 3 0 B T 0 4 I believe you have PS Start= 5200 Pause, PS Select = 5200 Start, and both PS2 Start and Select together= 5200 Reset. If that's the case, I like that combination. If too expensive to add the the keypads on the PS sticks, then all I need is X=B and O=T. If I could have one button for Defender and most games that have a third button, I'd take R2=0. The default mapping of X=B ^=T makes the joystick buttons too staggered on my fight stick. Also checking with a real PS2 control pad, X=B and ^=T is too far of a gap to operate with a single thumb yet is scrunches your index finger if you need the middle finger over ^ when "2 fingering" your main and aux fire. The 0 in L1 is for games where you play with a PS2 Dual Shock 2 and you need 2 fingers for both buttons and need a handy third button on the left side shoulder for hyperspace, becuase your right hand is occupied with fire and smart bombs. I assume these are made one by one, and can be wired individually to whatever button you, I , or anyone else wants. If that's the case, then everyone can get the arrangement they want. Supposedly Tototek does that, but unitl I receivie PS2->SNES and PS2-> Genesis the way i want in my hands, I won't assume it's that easy. Thatwoud be real convenient if it's custom wired to each order, but I'm not expecting it if it's not offered. If it's not, I'll have to ddecide whether I want it knowing that fact. Best of all it's 2 joystick in one. One is a self-centering Analog stick using a dual shock 2, (or maybe a dual shock 1) In some games, that sucks, and in other games, that's exactly what the doctor ordered. The other is an 8-way fight stick. Just use a PS 1 controller without analogs, (or press analog on either a DS1 or DS2 to turn the analog light off) It looks like none of the 5200 games have the concept of left action and right acito on their buttons. All the 5200 games I believe are main fire and aux fire. But if Tutankham was made ofr hte 5200, or if someone retrobrews something, if there is no software defined main=right (right hand stick) vs main=left (left hand stick) switcher, then I need a button switching adapter for 5200 port M-F. One last thing, add this line of code to make it compatible with the few games that don't work right in 8-way mode, but do in 4, plus would prevent diagonal speed bursts that the Competiiton Pro might be in hot water for for giving you 141% of radius if X=10% and y=100%. If 141% joysticks are illegal, then this would make it a legal digital stick. (Assuming X=0 and Y=0 is neutral and range form -1 to +1. (i don't know if it does but follow the same basic concept) " If (dig X<>0) AND (dig Y<>0) THEN [ ana X =( SGN (dig X) * .707) ana Y =( SGN (dig Y) * .707) ] else [ ana X = SGN (dig X) ana y = SGN (dig Y) ] Where SGN(n) returns either -1, 0 or +1, depending whether n is negative, neutral, or positive. Seriously, how much does one cost prebuilt? It might be cheaper than hiring Mathew Gummo to digitize an analog stick, plus it's more useful, and Gummo is not sure about working with 5200 potentiometers. If I can avoid having him do a 5200 controller, it's better for me, him, and you. Seriously, how much?

I'm done being critical, I want to order one. How Much, completely built, just plug and play?

I'm not trying to be a drama queen. As I said I WOULD be interested in the future when my Colecovision breaks. That's just not now. At least I know that I can't use an HDMI->Composite adapter on a CRT TV and expect sub-microsecond ping time on such a converter. Now I got proof. Thanks for showing me. By the way isn't that the number one reason to use a CRT TV for video games, for sub-microsecond ping on devices that are natively 240p or 480i? It's conversion between resolutions which causes more ping problems than display technologies. If they make a 1 ms HDMI monitor, then that last statement is true.

To explain my long posts, I have no social life outside of "I'll pay by debit card". No, I don't have a job, or a life. You guys are not very welcoming. Just because I have more time to say more doesn't make my comment worth any more or less. Some of you guys don't comment on the content, just the length.

If someone has a competitive gaming HDMI monitor who can either ship it to the Phoenix maker, or lives close enough where they can drop it off, I'd like to see the ping time on that. If my theroy is right, the CRT has most of the delay coming from the 1080p-> 480i conversion box. If my theory is correct, then if you use a 1 ms ping monitor, then 15 out 16 actions will have zero practical ping. 1 out of 16 actions will have 1 frame ping. This is assuming 60 frames per second capture. So maybe as time advances more solutions would be made. So f you are concerned about ping, then a competitive gaming monitor combined with a Phoenix will be considered an essentially zero-ping solution. Literally the only thing it wouldn't be considered zero ping for is light gun games, whiohc require sub-microsecond ping times. As soon as they make external 3D TV adapters (being, buy any TV, add 3D processors and glasses separately), I'd buy one of those, a low ping gaming monitor, and once the originals break, any HDMI replacements and I'd be good. I just don't need it now. So anyone have a competitive gaming monitor that can be shipped to/walked over to the OP, the proof would be in the pudding. By the way I don't romanticize the CRT for it's picture quality, or its 90 "bit-equivalent" color depth, even though for 3D content, the Segascope Zaxxon 3D had better 3d in the dark scenes than Star Trek Beyond's "pitch black" scene, but I wouldn't move heaven and earth to watch 3D on a CRT TV, except the Sega Scope 3D, which HAS to be played that way. I only obsess about CRTs for gameplay reasons. And the Phoenix directly through a gaming monitor may be a better option than a Phoenix through a CRT TV using a converter. If most things are on-frame with a competitive monitor, then the OP proved his point that the Phoenix adds no ping on HIS part. And if he wants to prove that point, that would be the perfect test.

Yes I remember Monk, and I say the Phoenix is a great product. And hopefully in the future when either my Colecovisoin or CRT TV break down, I can play on a sub-1-ms ping time tv that I add an external 3D TV adapter which I thought of and sent to Sony and Best Buy, and will hopefully get a response, and every game except real light gun games and Segascope games from that era will work fine. And I was thinking about a device kind of like a positional gun for NES, SMS, 7800, Genesis, SNES, 3DO, CD-i, Saturn, Playstation 1 and 2, Dreamcast, and original Xbox that you put sensors on the TV screen, not just one centered sensor, but 4 corners so this device knows EXACTLY where you're aiming, and converts WHERE you're aiming relative to the 4 corners of the TV plus WHEN you press the trigger, and gets fed the analog screen output, and sends to the joystick port the timing of the right pixel on the appropriate frame, and sends out the TV to an HDMI TV, then you got the means of playing a CRT light gun game on a NON-CRT TV. I don;'t know enough about it to finish the execution. But someone else can fill the gaps. Then again I expect no money for this one. And Segascope game will work with a 240p native mode on a monitor.

FIrst fo all I'm ot hating on it. If my 2 Colecovisions break down, and either the Phoeix has a direct, unconverted, low ping CRT connection. (I know Composite is better than RF. and the RF looks good enough. So the Composite is better. I won't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.) or I replace my Playstation 3D monitor with a sub 4 ms, 24 inch, 3D, HDMI monitor, I'd consider a Phoenix. I just don't need one now. Second, if playing a Phoenix on a gaming monitor has a lot of moves on frame, that indicates that your Phoenix adds no ping time on HDMI. I figured out how to frame-by frame a you tube video. There is a 2 60-FPS frame difference between when the jump button was pressed and when Mario started his jump. Each frame is 16 ms, so it's a 33 ms lag. It's about the same lag as my native PS3 monitor when comparing a CRT input and a Component 480i input on a PS2. So the HDMI->Composite converter adds 33 ms of lag between the Phoenix and the Commodore Monitor. Press comma to retreat one frame, and period to advance one frame. If you can't remember that, think "<" and ">" without the shift key. You can see for yourself there's 2 frames of ping from when the jump button is fully pressed and when mario starts his jump. Luckily there are no light gun games for a Colecovision, so sub-millisecond ping times are irrelevant. And there are gaming monitor that advertise "less than one frame" lag. The most basic of the ones advertised as low ping are 4 ms, MLG-level Uber-competitive ones are 1 ms ping time. If you used one of those directly with an HDMI hookup, if should be so slight that on average only 1/16 of the actions will have a 1 frame ping time. 15 out of 16 will look instant on the frame. So if you are a competitive Colecovision gamer, which I am (I came close to setting a Twin Galaxies record on Twitch, except the stream was choppy so I have to wait until my net is better before I attempt it) and either a CRT TV is too heavy and bulky or rare, and you can spring for a MLG-level monitor, you should have no complaints. I'd like to see the ping test for a decent 4 ms ping HDMI Native mointor. If 3/4 actions look instant and are at worst one frame of ping, then we know there is nothing in the Phoenix slowing it down. If someone geographically close to the OP has a 4 ms ping or less HDMI monitor, let him borrow it for one filming, and show that there's nothing in the Phoenix that's slowing it down. The only reason why the CRT TV is delayed is because the HDMI-> composite converter delays it when it downconverts. it's downconversion which costs ping time as much as the display. That would be a good sales pitch. But the CRT TV would ONLY be wise if there is no delay on CRT TV. I'm a practical man. I'm about results. I wouldn't use a CRT Mode if it starts natively in 1080p and then downconverts to 480i when I know the delay that's caused in video conversions.. My suggestion is don't add the CRT adapter unless it's close enough to zero ping for non-light gun games to be considered low ping. if the CRT mode is High Ping, and both my Colecovisions broke and I find a low-ping monitor which I can add a 3D mode to externally , I'd pick up a Phoenix. I'm not the primary audience for the Phoenix. I just don't want them seen returned if people complain about ping. I'm trying to be scientific about it. I know native HDMI can have sub-1-frame ping. I just don't want people thinking this is low ping by using a 33 ms converter and expecting perfect ping time. Are the other people complaining about CRTs doing it mainly for the visual effect, or for the gaming performance? My main concern is gaming performance.

Also a Playstation to INTV adapter can work with the analog controller if it was divided into 16 regions and a neutral center. Plus a d-pad can be used for 4-way/8way. Just add a female for the INTV 2 keypad. If you decide to make Playstation ones, I'd like two for Playstation-> INTV. Otherwise I'll take one Genesis and One Jaguar and HOPE a double conversion of PS2-> Jaguar->INTV or PS2->Genesis-> INTV works. OR hore someone to dismantle a Genesis (3 button/6-button? I assume it doesn't matter) Also I'm not familiar with the Intellivision enough to go off childhood memories. I believe both top buttons are equal and are the actuated by your index trigger finger. And the 2 bottom buttons are independent, there is a bottom left and bottom right. Also are there any games where "Left action button" and "Right Action button" are more import than the concept of primary, secondary, tertiary? And in game where there there is a primary, secondary, and tertiary, is the left the secondary and the right the tertiary, or vice versa. (The primary would be ambidextrous as Top.) With a left handed Genesis and Jaguar joystick, what is the mapping? Gen ABC=Jag CBA = INTV TLR If reversed for right handed play, what would be the primary setup: Gen CBA=Jag ABC= INTV RLT? Are there any games where you want INTV LRT. As I said, I may get a Genesis 3 button pad-hacked anyway, and MAY get a Jag pad hacked if the PS2->Jaguar device doesn't come to fruition. So if you decide not to make PS2-> INTV adapters, I'll take one Genesis and One Jaguar rom you. And once I do, I need 2 INTV2-> INTV 1 adapters, and 2 INTV FB-> INTV 2 adapters from Nurmix to get these to work with an INTV 1 console and 2 INTV FB controllers.

Seriously the playstation is the most versatile controller. Currently there are direct adapters for Xbox, GameCube, Dreamcast, 360, PS3, Wii Classic, Wii U Classic, One, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, Turbo Grafx 16, Master system (because it's compatible with Genesis), and Atari 2600. A switch does work indirectly with a PS2-> GC-> Switch via Wii U Game Cube Controller adapter, but it's only a 7-button controller. Other 2-step combinations to the Switch like PS2->Xbox 360-> Switch and PS2->Xbox One -> Switch using a Coov N100 either never work or have errors when played a long time. There also exists 3DO, Turbo Grafx 16, and Neo Geo Adapters, but the 3DO doesn't have Daisy Chain, the Turbo is low priority because I have a Beeshu stick, and Neo Geo. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/277853-adapter-to-allow-another-consoles-controllers-on-jaguar/?p=4151128 is the link to a Playstation to Jaguar hookup. But I remember a longer conversation somewhere else. If other 2-step conversions work, you can have PS2-> Genesis -> 7800, PS2-> either Genesis or Jaguar +> INTV PS2-> GC -> N64 and PS2-> SNES-> NES. The last systems for PS2 that I own are Colecovision, Astrocade, and a 3DO with the daisy chain port intact. Other ones I don't own, are CD-i, TI-99/A, Channel F, and Vectrex. The only other American systems have attached joysticks, namely Odyssey 2, RCA Studio II and Arcadia 2001, and the pre-cartridge dedicated systems. This would do well because there are complaints about base 5200 controllers, and if you're going to make one adapter, the Playstation version would be it because of its versatility.

Probably the Playstation is the best example of a controller adapter to use, because if you have a fight stick and play arcade-style/fight games with a 4/8 way stick, the Playstation is the most versatile controller. I personally own direct adapters for Master System, Genesis, SNES, Saturn, Dreamcast, Xbox, Game Cube, 360, PS3, Wii Classic, Xbox One. There are also ones for the PS4 I presume, but I don't own one, (especially if they are PS3 fight stick compatible), a 3DO, but I don't want that one because there's no daisy chain port, a Turbo Grafx, which is not a high priority because I have a Beeshu joystick, a Neo Geo, but I don't own one, and there is an AtariAge project for PS2-> 5200 elsewhere. Chaining may or may not work. I can get a 7-button switch fight stick using a PS2-> GC-> Switch via Wii U Game Cube Port adapter. But using a PS2-> Xbox 360-> Switch or PS2-> Xbox One-> Switch using a Coov N100 either doesn't work at all, or has glitches after ten minutes of playing due to double translation. So the less you double translate, the better. I don't know if PS2-> Genesis -> INTV would work, or PS2-> Genesis-. 7800, or PS2->GC->N64, or PS2->SNES->NES. No one can give me a definitive answer. Jaguar is one of the few controllers without an acceptable PS2-> System X solution. Another is Colecovision Super Action. A couple games glitch with Super Action, so PS2-> Standard Coleco is needed for Q*Bert's Qubes and Activision Decathlon. Also the Astrocade uses a different 9-pin standard than Atari. I heard you need either a Best Electronics Genesis-> Atari 2600 adapter or an Edladdin Genesis-> 7800 adapter. If the double conversions in the above paragraph don't work, those need to be made too. Someone may want a Vectrex, someone may want a Channel F. If a removable Odyssey 2 is not the same as Atari, that needs one too, Arcadia 2001 has attached controllers, so you got to live with them, which probably has no American fans, anyway. All their fans are foreign, but foreigners might want them. Also, maybe you should have a Y-adapter for a keypad controller. Just have different mappings for joypads, and fight sticks. I don't know if I need access to all keypad buttons, just Z, Y, X, L, and R. Someone has proposed a PS2-> jag adapter, but I can't find it by searching. If someone can find it, please post. I would buy one.

I know I can adapt it with a HDMI->Composite monitor, but unfortunately, i tried to look at the youtube frame-by-frame playback, but pressing the left and right arrow advances 5 seconds, not one frame. Youtube doesn't have "frame-by-frame" advance. If the joystick/ button press is ahead of the move/jump, then my point is proven. I can display it, but until I see a frame by frame ping test, I'm not convinced that this will work as intended.

HDMI? WHY? Some these games require pinpoint timing and need a CRT TV. Imagine playing a "second cycle" round of Lady Bug with some ping. It's possible on the lower levels with patience to beat that level on a CRT TV. Imagine if there was a 33 ms delay like the best TV at the time, the Playtstation 3D Display. I understand the HDMI technology doesn't add ping by its very existence, but it's just that all the TVs that accept HDMI technology use a TV display technology that is not low ping. And I'm not asking for sub-microsecond Light Gun ping for anything except light gun games, which Coleco doesn't have, but Composite outputs would be good for basic CRT TVs and S-Video and Component for more premium ones. Until they attach an HDMI connection to a CRT TV, and it can properly do both 4x3 and 16x9 modes, you should have an alternative. I've heard of something called an HDMI CRT Adapter which takes an HDMI signal and converts it to component and composite with no delay. Besides, some TVs can't do 240p natively without a conversion process which increases ping which kills the whole point of playing these games. Eve if I have a low Ping HDMI TV, unless it's both low ping enough for light gun games, and in 3D, I'll need 3 tcs downlstairs, one for 3D movies, one for light gun games,a and one for the rest. I already have 2. A 3D 240p/480i->2160p CRTTV would be the solution. I believe a 24 inch 16x9 screen is smaller than a 4x3 one of the same diagonal. So why not a 24 inch 4k CRT 3D TV, that can go down to 240p for old school games and have the Segascope 3D work too..

I was thinking that'sa weird choice of fire buttons. For the purposes of a joypad, which was the original intent of the controller, and not a fight stick, like I'd want, an X and a ^ would make it hard to bridge if you have to rapid fire one and hold the other. Most thumbs are a) not big enough to cover the gap between the X and ^, and b) you have to hold your hand at a weird angle. It's just as bad for a fight stick, based on the Street Fighter 15th Anniversary Layout, it would be (assuming the first set of L1/R1/^ is top button because it would be smart to have x as your main trigger): [] ^ R1 L1 X O R2 L2 which maps to: ? T T T B ? B B The Ascii arrangement used for Playstation 1 authorized fight sticks is: L1 [] ^ R1 L2 X O R2 which maps to: T ? T T B B ? B The joypad makes little sense because you either have your most rapid fire on the the Triangle ( if you have your bottom button on the L1/R1 index finger trigger and my assumption was right), or the most rapid fire on the middle finger. (if the rapid fire is on the X, and my initial assumption is wrong) By the way is this the final way you make it to everyone who buys one, or is there room for customization by the individual order? If there is, maybe you do it right the first time and accommodate all possible combinations, then there'd be a special "joystick OS button which reprograms the control. Press joystick OS then 1-9 keys are custom-programmed arrangements. Pound equals number mode, press a PS2 pad/stick button then a keypad button to define a keypad button to that button. Star is "button mode", where you hold a PS button and press key one for bottom button, key 2 is top button, key 3 is reserved for keypad presses for pound, mode 4 is reserved for 5200 OS buttons (start Pause, Reset) and 0enters "other mode" where star toggles 100% maximum radius on and off on digital mode (which is toggled by the analog button on the PS1, or is automatically digital if there is no analog button, like most fight sticks) with one beep if on and 2 peeps if off. Zero is define current setup to be arrangement 1-9, and pound could be used for other functions, like "fiip axis mode." for Star Wars where 2 makes up dgo up, 8 makes down go up, 6 makes right go right, 4 makes left go right. Unless someone can think of any other function these PS buttons can be assigned that I didn't miss, then I guess all bases are covered. There's enough 8 more keys that can be used in the miscellaneous that can be used for any functions I missed. If you incorporate this well, accommodate everyone's needs, this might be a handy adapter along the lines of a Tototek adapter which converts PS2/PS1 to older systems. The last thing I see is an opposite gender 15 pin for hooking up an actual keypad for Space Shuttle and Star Raiders. I'd pay at least $20 plus shipping for such an adapter already built. Considering the fact Matthew Gummo, who specializes in analog digitizations, can't convert a 5200 controller for pad hacking, this might come in handy.

Also why a PS2 and NOT A PS1 Dual Shock 1? Wouldn't the digital buttons be an easier conversion than the analog buttons on a PS2? I know a PS2 controller works on a PS1 system as a press of a certain level or other registers as a digital hit, and likewise a PS1 controller on a PS2 machine on either PS1 or PS2 software, but doesn't work work on analog button-required games. And also wouldn't the default be digital, but pressing the analog button puts in analog mode on PS1. This manual pressing would come in handy for fight sticks. Plus if it also works with digital PS1 sticks, and fight sticks, then it's a complete solution. The only other issue is the 141% of radius diagonals when digital. You need something smart to make a diagonal 70.7% of maximum center to edge potentiometer distance when it's diagonal, but 100% when it's a cardinal, so there's no errors in certain games, and cheating issues in others. You don't need it in analog mode because the circular gate on the 5200 and PS2 keep the simultaneous 100%X AND 100%Y in check, by locking it out.

What good is an Atari 5200 controller that can ONLY do Start, Select and Pause, and NOT bottom or top? If it doesn't even do the top and bottom button (or on the Trackbal,l the inner and outer button) then only games that don't use either action button would work. I was wondering what maps to top and bottom? If I could chose which buttons are top button and bottom button, I would want X=bottom and O=top for my fight stick. The one exception I can conceive of is if Tutankham was made for the 5200 in which case, when right handed, I want them flipped. That game relies heavily on a "left fire" and "right fire", not a "main fire" and an "aux fire". if someone retrobrews Tutankham for the 5200, there should be a button flip option. Because in both cases trigger finger is on the button button and the thumb is on the top bottom, but on right-stick the bottom button is right, and on left-stick the bottom button is on the left. Like at the beginning of each player's first life,the screen says press "right fire" to proceed. You press whichever button you want to be right. The other keypad buttons are a lower priority, but I can see using the 0 in Defender and a few other games that use 0 as a third button, which I believe is the most common third button. I guess if I'm playing Countermeasure, I could mount the keyboard next to my fight stick and enter the codes on the manual keypad for the 1,2,3. It works on digital on an Atari 800 reprogram, so it could work in digital mode on a 5200. And if a game uses a full 12 key keypad, it probably has analog controls and should be used with Best Electronics gold controller. But even if it had digital controls, probably the Best should be used with 12 keys.

What exactly is the button mapping? What PS button equals bottom, and what PS button equals top. Would the other buttons work as keypad buttons for certain games? I would prefer X= Bottom, and O=Top. (assuming the bottom button is considered main fire) A previous post of mine has a full mapping of what I would want with 4 of the buttons. Unless someone can see a reason why 1,2,3, and 0 are not the main 4 keypad buttons to program in, I'd like to hear an argument for different numbers. By there way, there are 2 extra buttons. I guess one main button equals pause (in my setup, either L2 or L1), start equals start and select equals reset. I've got room for one other number. Again if someone can think of an argument for any number other than 1, 2, 3, and 0 as the other buttons on te main PS2 controller for the extra buttons, I'd like to hear it.

It would mainly matter in D-Pad mode. In analog Mode, the Playstaiton analog has a natural circular gate, which maps one-to-one with an analog 5200 controller with THEIR physical restrictor. With 8 ways, all you have to do is compute Abs(x)=Abs(y) AND (X^2)+(Y^2)=R^2. The magic number as I shown in my previous post is +- 70.7% assuming -100%<=x<=+100% AND -100%<=y<=+100%. I don't know how the 5200 and PS2 map THEIR analogs, but this concept is used. There are no other angles than the 45 degree diagonals. This is not an Intellivision we're talking about. By the way, why PS2? Why not PS1 Dual Shock 1? The only difference is the PS2 has pressure based analog d-pad, face buttons, and shoulder buttons. I don't know if the pressure sensitive feature of the PS2 will be used in any way. If that's not the case, then the PS1 Dual Shock 1 is all that's necessary. Right?

I was arguing this point on the Astrocade ICBM controller. I didn't know whether the orgiginal controller, whihc ws an analog controller with an X and Y with 3 buttons, had centering resistance or not, and whether it had a circular restrictor, like the 5200, or whether it had a square restrictor, like an Apple iie controller. I said those tings matter. They asked me what I would want in the cotnroller, I said since it was originally made for ICBM, that the way the designers of the controllers designed it, and the game programmers made it, that's the way it should be. Since I've seen a Atari 5200 controller, I know what its normal nature is like. But the ICBM controller was only in a prototype stage. And their controller was used only for that game. I showed a consequence of if it had an originally square resistor and you try to retrofit it with a circular resistor controller. Read these original questions and answers searching ICBM on Bally Alley Yahoo Group. I discussed certain issues itf it was desgined one way, and later implemented another. I have an illustrated example of not reaching reaching a city as an unintended consequence of the original design being a square restrictor, then retrofitting a circular restrictor. I know of the consequences of adding auto-center in games which were designed not to auto-center. Xbox One Warlords doesn't feel right in absolute mode dialing a position, just like a paddle, and fighting centering resistance. it's really tiring. That's why only certain games benefit from auto-centering on the 5200 controller, and certain other games get hindered bad. Also using Pythagorean theorem and keeping X and Y equal, 70.7 % is the level the cardinals should be at when the diagonal is pressed and the desired radius is 100%: (.707 ^ 2) + (.707^2) = 2* (.499849) =.999698 and taking the square root of that is = .999849 which on a 8 bit per axis system is so close to 1.00 that it virtually is 1.00

I just confirmed he can do reverse Flashback adapters and INTV 2 controller-> INTV 1 console adapters too. But not now, his "blank" db9 heads have to come in. But they shouid be ready by the time the INTV Genesis and Jaguar adapters are ready. I asked if he could do Atari joystick -> Astrocade console adapters, he said he COULD do it, but with no guarantee, because he has no Astrocade machine or Atari controller to test it with.

I know it takes electronic brains to make this work. You just can't pad-hack an intellivision controller and make it work. You're going to need CPU brains somewhere. I'd like one Genesis one and one Jaguar one.

Yes I understand there's an independent X and Y, and if it were not for the physical circle restrictor, the X can be actuated 100% and the y can be actuated 100% together, and the radius would be 141% using x,y to r,A conversions. Also my previous post mentions a clever way of using an 80% minimum actuation to turn an analog stick into a 4-way. But the Competition Pro ruins it with simultaneous 100% x and 100%y

The problem is that the Atari 5200 has a physical stick limiter which keeps it at a maximum 100%, so only a broken joystick, when converting from x,y to r,A is where r>100 hence the N and E simultaneously in some programs thinking it's 141% Some games use that fact to turn it into a 4-way stick: If any direction is 80% or greater, then the perpendicular is always below 60%. So there's a diagonal dead zone. I know Popeye has this problem when using a Competition Pro, and actuating a diagonal. other games include maybe Mountain King, maybe Wizard of Wor, or any other 4-way game you can think of can potentially have the problem. It may not be a radius problem, but programming assumption that assumes there are no diagonals by making the threshold 80% If there is a guarantee of no simultaneous X and Y due to the circle limit, a lazy way to save a few bits is to institute the 80% standard. If the joystick forces the issue by physically limiting non-simultaneous 80% horizontal and 80% vertical, then you can save bits by not writing more complex conditionals. And in those days, you were fighting for K like Atari 2600 programmers were fighting for bits. But the Competition Pro threw that out the window. Then there is another unintended competitive consequence: the diagonal speed boost. In something like The Dreadnaught factor, if the controls are analog, then the maximum radius is 100%, because the joystick has a physical circle limiter. But would it considered cheating for the purposes of Twin Galaxies records to have a Competition Pro because your diagonals have a speed of 141% of the cardinal maximum. You can cover more ground 2 dimensionally, or you can weave up and down as you move left at full speed whether you go straight-left, up-left, or down-left. So for the reasons of both 4 way games not working right as well as cheating in games that have a diagonal speed boost, maybe there should be a default 100% Maximum mode, where pressing a diagonal automatically makes it 100% by actuating a dome 2-axis potentiometer as 100% by 45 degrees. and to unlock "diagonal boost mode", a button must be held. Which means, when diagonal, the 2 corresponding cardinals equal 70.7% If I'm going for a Twin Galaxies record on Twitch and people try and don't get the diagonal sped boost with default 5200 controllers, people will accuse me of cheating. I would have to put that disclaimer on all my 5200 twitch streams. (once I get 5G, but slow internet is another issue.) I feel sorry for someone who innocently breaks a record and then finds out the joystick gave a programming advantage with the diagonal speed boost, then it gets challenged by someone who shows diagonal speed on a default controller. Then they have to make 2 separate divisions, one with a 100% maximum limiter, and one with a diagonal speed boost. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also about the buttons: I'm thinking given the following mapping for the fight stick (Street Fighter 15th Anniversary stick): [] ^ R1 L1 X O R2 L2 The 5200 buttons should equal: 1 2 3 ? B T 0 ? That's assuming the bottom button is the "main" rapid fire button, and the concept of left fire and right fire is not involved, like Tutankham (was there a 5200 version of that game?) I have a little obsession about right handed fight sticks. I successfully righthanded my Street Fighter 15, becuase that stick has an acceptable right-handed contpour or rectangular. If the game has a concept of main and aux fire, then that maps correctly when horizontally flipped. But in the case of Tutankham: ? 3 2 1 ? 0 T B If B=left and T=right then you got an inverision problem. Right button to fire left and left button to fire right. Also if in Countermeasure the 3 symbol buttons make sense where they are numbered 1, 2, and 3, AND make sense in a left-to-right fashion, MAYBE a backwards mapping of the number keys. That way Countermeasure you can use the joystick buttons for typing in the launch cancellation code, and the 0 button can be used for Hyperspace in Defender. Those are probably the 2 keypad-heaviest games. Space Shuttle uses a lot of keys, but lightly. Same with RealSports games and Star Raiders I assume. L2 can equal pause, Start can equal start, and Select can equal reset. So you got one button left. Keep in mind this would probably be the best mapping for fight sticks. I understand pads may be different. So maybe holding the last button, the L1, together with face buttons can activate Pad mode, Street Fighter Joystick mode, Ascii Joystick mode (which has a different mapping), and 100% Maximum toggle on/off, always resets to Max on. The memory would hold the other 4 items.) So what is the button mapping you originally have on the 5200 controller for top and bottom buttons? Was Defender hyperspace and Countermeasure codes included? If you assume the standard Dual Shock 2, if the SNES Nuts have their way, and it's mapped likeMario, Mega Man, and Super Ghouls N Ghosts, this would probably be the default arrangement: --^-- []---O --X-- equals --?-- B---0 --T-- If I had needed a pad for analog games (Even though I'd argue centering resistance in the Left stick makes "dialing a position in Kaboom and Super Breakout in one dfimension, and Star Wars in 2D, verfy strenuous, inaccurate, and tiring. So I'd use a Best Electronics rebuilt 5200 standard stick. No centering resistance means more accurate posiitoning in those games. I might use it for games where you HAVE to accurately find center, yet can use analog, like Galaxian and Dreadnaught Factor.)), I'd two-finger the pad and use: --0-- ?---T --B-- Probably 0 is the best third button because I believe a couple other games besides Defender use 0 as a third button. I gave my opinion about these matters. I want to hear others. (The opinion is admittedly long due to a lack of real-world socializing, and 100% of my socializing is online, except for a few offline friends I knew before I went online and that's once every 2-3 months.)

(mistyped, complete post below.)

Also a question about the digtiization: If N=100% North and E=100% East, and there's no other processing then those 2 combine to 141% NE, becuase in the original 5200 control design, there is no circle limiter in the logic of the potentiometers, butt here is a "physical plastic circle limiter" on the joystick. The Compettion coin is a simple joystick that actuates

Also isn't PS2 a little overkill, because PS1 has just digital buttons, but PS2 has analog face, D Pad and shoulder buttons? Wouldn't it be easier to work with a standard PS1, or if you want analog, a PS1 Dual Shock 1. And doesn't a Dual Shock 2 default down to a Dual Shock 1 when plugged in a PS1 anyway? Why work with a PS2 when PS1 is fine?