Propane13

That's a pretty good title screen. The Martian Background really helps! I have been thinking about your "release as a series" cartridge concept. I like it a lot; it's unique. And, I think there may be a way to allow more game accessibility while providing the same concept. As a story element, let's say that your character wasn't always a space traveller; in the past, they were a construction worker. One day, while using heavy machinery on a job site, they unexpectedly exposed two glowing artifacts... and they were rather curious. It certainly got your character's attention. You took the two artifacts to be analyzed by scientists. They both appeared to be alien in origin, containing a story about a Lost Civilization that had once traveled the Solar System. There was a strange picture one artifact that included 10 planets instead of 9-- evidence of Planet X! There appeared to be a partial code on that artifact, but it didn't make any sense. Maybe it was just a part of a set? Something was missing. Analysis of the second artifact showed that it contained a clear set of coordinates. But, to where? Talking with astronomers, you learned it could only be one place-- Venus. It seems to indicate that there's another artifact to be found there. The call to adventure was set! You decided to become an astronaut and see where adventure takes you. Maybe you could find Planet X?! And, with your knowledge in construction, you're the best person for the job. Let's take the Mercury cartridge, for example. If you get complete the first 80% of the levels in the game, you find the first artifact from the Lost Civilization! It contains some coordinates (e.g. a passcode) where the Lost Civilization placed their colony on the next planet, e.g. Venus. But, you still have to explore the last 20% of the levels in the "Lost Colony" area to uncover the second artifact, which would be crucial to finding Planet X. Anyone could buy the Venus cartridge and play through 80%. But, when the Lost Colony is found, a key is needed-- the passcode from the first artifact on Mercury. If done correctly, 2 things happen: you can play the Lost Colony on Venus, and you get the passcode unlock the Lost Colony on Mars. Completing the Lost Colony on Venus gets you another 1/9 of the puzzle for the whereabouts of Planet X. The Planet X cart could be purchased, of course, but the game couldn't be played without finishing all planets' Lost Colony sections and getting those passcodes. If you want to make it so that people can't post such passcodes online, you could have each player have a unique seed for their passcodes. Some refinement of the idea is needed, but it would allow for players to be able try a lot of cartridges if they wanted, but to be a true completionist, they would need to complete everything in order. Could be fun.

This information may be helpful:

Just in case you're not aware, the production release of Impossible Mission (NTSC) is impossible to complete due to a software bug. The PAL version is fixed, and there's an NTSC fixed ROM known as "Possible Mission".

I've decided it's time to clean all of my Atari 7800 games thoroughly, and then put them in small plastic sleeves. I realize it's going to take a while, but I decided that since I have to test the cartridges anyway, I may as well go through them alphabetically, play them a bit, and records any thoughts/memories/questions that arose while playing. In some cases, I didn't have anything to say, but for others, I shared a few thoughts for fun. Tonight, I went from A - F, running through the first 25 games in my collection. 7800 MONITOR CART * Has anyone played around with the Combat-like games on this? It seems that for some, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do as one player. There's a Sun object and some missiles flying around, but I never get any damage, even though a score is showing. Am I missing something? Are any of the variants fun to play? ACE OF ACES * Is anyone on here any good at this game? Any tips? I used to own the Computer game way back in the day, but also didn't get too far. Maybe there's some hidden gameplay element here that's fun! ALIEN BRIDGADE * If you finish the game on Novice / Expert / etc..., is the ending the same? I'm guessing so, but thought I would ask. Apparently, I've only ever beaten it on Novice. * This game appears to be really bad at giving you a chance to see your final score. It doesn't seem to appear even if you wait for the game to enter "Attract Mode" (which actually, I couldn't tell if I was playing or not) BALLBLAZER: * I appreciate how when a match is finished, you can just relax and enjoy the synthesizers going CRAZY on the POKEY chip. BASKETBRAWL * I used to play this as 2 players growing up. The "one player" mode cycles through the other teams. Do they just keep getting more and more difficult (until every player is maxed out)? Do they repeat? Does it end? CHOPLIFTER: * To my shame, this is the game I've never beaten with a perfect score. On the plus side, time doesn't seem to matter. What strategies do people use? I always start with the farthest camp; is that a bad idea? * It's interesting that if you shoot up all four camps, the soldiers seem to respawn in different places. Do we know how it chooses which one? COMMANDO: * Still fun, fantastic music; I still sometimes forget where the hidden camps are! CRACK'ED * The controls compared to Crossbow are terrible. There's no reason the cursor should "jump" when moving. It works perfectly fine on Crossbow. I always put this one away disappointed when playing. But, then again, I do like the egg carton graphic. CROSSBOW: * I loved this game as a kid. It was so fun getting "NEW FRIEND" and figuring out that there were things you could/needed to interact with to change the scene. I always shot that 5,000 point eyeball that only appeared once per screen, and still do. * Even though I had the path memorized when I was younger, I do not remember it now. So, that's fun-- a little mapping exercise brings me back to the initial times playing it. DARK CHAMBERS: * This may have been the first time I listened to the Title Screen music. It's actually longer than I thought it would be. DESERT FALCON: * Did anyone else keep a "log of hieroglyphics?" My sibling and I wrote down symbols and their outcomes and kept a piece of paper close by. * Did the symbols change every few levels? I seem to have a memory of a WARP code working on the earlier levels but failing on later levels. I'm not sure if that was true or not. * I have a great memory of the first player getting really far, and then the code being messed up such that player 2 started with a HURRICANE of enemies right from level 1. * Still my favorite source code on the web. Full of light-hearted swearing. DONKEY KONG: * I remember as a kid that if you touched Donkey Kong on the third stage, you died. My friends and I used to say it was because you got too close to his armpits. I have no idea why we used to say that. DOUBLE DRAGON: * I'm still surprised nobody has beaten this on 2 player mode. I swear there's a special ending. But, as far as I'm aware, nobody has ever seen it. Somebody here ought to team up and see what I'm talking about. * Also, WHY IS THE LABEL WHITE? After years of enjoyment, my label is now grey. Is it possible to clean it? My guess is the dirt will remain forever as a testament to young 7800 enjoyment. F-18 HORNET: * I used to be able to beat Mission 1 and get somewhat far on Mission 2 back in the day. I really ought to give this another go. There's some fun here. It's a little fiddly, but round 2 in particular was entertaining. FAILSAFE: * I bought this back when it released, but didn't play it much. I think I remember why-- it's got a 40+ minute timer! I played for a bit and got one digit of the code, but then ran out of fuel (I think)? I'll need to read the instructions on this one a bit more. But, is it really a 40+ minute game to finish? Not that that's a problem; it just surprises me a bit-- that's a lot of gameplay! FATAL RUN: * I remember finishing this game years ago. But, this time I noticed that there's an odometer! Are the distances to the cities known? Are they constant? Are they different between levels? FIGHT NIGHT: * I also never beat this game, but today I figured out how to actually take down two opponents. Does your player have a special move, or just the opponents? * Is anyone really good at this game? Any strategies / tips? I hope these were entertaining! It's a good excuse for me to play some things that I've overlooked for a long time (even if just for a few minutes).

For those wishing to beat the game, I used this approach while testing my Possible Mission hack: - Get a notebook - Play the first game that appears on cold power-up. Don't reset to a new level! - Run around the world and make a giant map of all rooms. Put a number next to each room - Find the code rooms. Work out and write down a ton of codes. This takes a LOT of time, but being armed with SNOOZEs helps drastically. - Take notes on each room. In a lot of rooms with difficult to reach areas, there are NO puzzle pieces there. - After enough dying, you'll end up losing and needing to start over. But, here's the interesting part. I always found my game started with the same scenario on cold boot. This means that if you pick it up and play tomorrow, 2 things happen: - you have the answer for a bunch of codes already, so that goes much faster - you know where puzzle pieces exist and what areas to avoid If you manage to follow that method a few times, it becomes easier. It also gives you opportunities to practice rooms. That said, for anyone starting in a truly random setup and beating the game, my hat goes off to you. That is VERY difficult and I have never managed to do that. The next hardest part is the Puzzle Pieces. They look like punch cards when assembled, but I usually found that the 4 pieces assembled looked in such a way that fusing 2 pieces made a geometric pattern of sorts, and the other 2 pieces made a negative image of that pattern. These puzzle pieces can drastically change between variants of the game, so this part is exhausting. Mental note: somebody should see if we can find all puzzle piece combos in the code just so we can have them on standby for a walkthrough (hmm....). Getting the first puzzle completed gives you confidence to be able to do the next one. And, if memory serves: - you get a SNOOZE or a LIFT INIT for completing a puzzle (I may be wrong on this one; it's been years) - the puzzle pieces are removed from the available pile. This makes solving the second puzzle go faster, and helps get things done. After that, get a camera ready, get to the Control Room, press "up" (I think), and then take a picture (yes, there is an ending). I don't remember how long the screen stays up, but I was sure to capture quickly just in case it disappeared back to the title screen. Hope this is helpful to somebody out there!

What's the box under Commando Raid?

And... it looks like I'm in. I just had to leave it sitting a while. I was able to make my account. But, deleting the old account is still a mystery for now. Sorry for the noise. This thing appears to need a little bit of patience to get going properly. Looking forward to playing the new John Van Ryzin game!

Hello! A friend gifted me their VCS, but I am finding it troublesome to operate. I tried to create a new user account, but that didn't work due to a lack of wifi connection. So, I decided instead to try the Guest account, which worked well enough such that I was able to configure my Wifi (a good step). I then tried looking for updates; there was a new download available, and the bar filled pretty quickly to 83% downloaded, at which point it hung for 5 minutes. I'm not sure what happened there. Then, I figured I'd delete the previous owner's account by doing a Factory Reset from the Guest account, but it appears I can't do that-- it asks me to select an account, and when I choose the previous owner's account, it's asking me for a PIN to enter before proceeding. Is that account there forever? Also, any idea what I should do with the 83% downloaded update? Just wait, or reboot? Thanks! Sorry, I am BRAND NEW to this system and just trying to get started.

Hello! 2 questions from someone new to this thread: 1) I have some Activision 2600 carts that fit fine in my 7800, but are... temperamental to get working. The cartridges must be inserted at just the right depth, and the board sometimes needs to lean a little or be held downwards to work. If memory serves, this is because of a slight difference in thickness and connectivity in the Activision 2600 PCB boards when compared against other 2600 games. Does this piece of hardware solve that issue? 2) How do I purchase one? Do I have to wait for atariage.com to have them in stock? Thank you!

Neat! Did it automatically create the spigot?

I'm really digging the "mechanical world". It's got a fun feel to it. I like the idea of items dropping and following a series of conveyor belts like some sort of complicated Rube Goldberg machine that has to be solved. You mentioned a grinder-- that had me thinking of a level where rocks are falling and following along a series of conveyor belts, but at the end, there's a geode grinder / crusher that takes them out if they sit there too long. If you don't move fast enough and crush some of the geodes to get the coins, you're not going to have enough points to close out the level. I think you demonstrated that pretty well with the lava being the inevitable impassible endpoint at the beginning of the video; there's a good mechanic there. It would be fun to see a level with a small crusher pointed down at the tail end of the bottom-most conveyor belt of a series, and then trigger a landslide above with destructible rocks just to see all those elements playing together (essentially, a smashing machine). While I realize coding it could be potentially difficult, do you want the player to also move sideways when standing on the conveyor belt?

Hey there! Glad to see continued progress, and I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better. Since a lot has transpired, I'll just break my comments up per functional area: Gravity switches: These seem to be working well. I was thinking about it and wondered if it would look good / bad if the arrow-switch icon flipped upside down when you did. That way, the "switch" is switching directions. I don't know if that would be confusing, but it seemed like it would be worth seeing. If it's always pointing to "gravity would go this way if you flipped it", that may feel more logical if it kept changing states when toggled. Water feature: I think this is a fantastic idea, and having the water "fill" due to a faucet is a really cool mechanic. Of your water animations, #5 feels the least correct to me, but it does feel like it's more like some sort of auger-fed drill. That had me wondering if such a drill could be a useful feature on its own. It's a bit hard to say, since the Crushers already seem to cover a lot of this territory, but I thought I would flag it, just because the spiral action kind of looked neat. At a minimum, it could be some sort of "impassible wall" that you would have to switch off in some place before moving to the left/right to get past it. If you touch the drill-bit, it's instant death. Bombs: I see this topic come up from time to time, and I think this is a neat thing to play around with. The question on my mind is how would it be different from BD explosions (and cascading explosions). There could be a few options that separate it out and make it more interesting. For example, there could be a countdown timer when activated-- this could be a lot of fun especially when you have to set a bomb off and snake your way through a bunch of crushers / drills / enemies just to get far enough away safely, just to inevitably have to run the gauntlet again later. Another possibility besides a countdown timer could be different radiuses of explosions: As an example, green bombs could have small impacts, yellow could have medium, and red could have large. That could have some fun elements in a minefield layout where one has to decide which bomb to trigger if they want to make a path, but not destroy all the coins they need to complete a level. The only caveat to a color designation is that it loses accessibility to color-blind players, so marking bombs with a "1 / 2 / 3" or some sight of marking may also be needed. One other thought-- BD has cascading explosions; in Wen Hop, would that be needed? Combining thoughts-- it might be interesting if armed bombs can daisy-chain ONLY if they're armed. That would mean that bombs would need some way to be armed/disarmed without setting them off to allow for daisy chains, but it could allow for fun where a giant Red Bomb has to be disarmed in the middle of the level to prevent it accidentally being triggered and pretty much ruining the level. A disarmed bomb just disappears when triggered instead of exploding. Maybe something to play with. Controls: I'm all for a HUD where the button can select what its function is for. Frankly, for a game like this, I would support a 2-button approach via either booster grip interface or some extra hardware if the game is getting to be this feature-packed. It wouldn't have to be mandatory, but I think this would help a lot with playability for those who choose to do so. That said, I'm not sure what sorts of modern options exist for giving extra buttons to the 2600. Update frequency: I for one really like the constant updates-- it's like a game development blog that's happening live. I also really appreciate your frankness and frequent interactions with those watching the thread; it feels like we're sort of helping a little bit. When I read these updates, I'm never really near an emulator, so I don't get much chance to test binaries, but I do really enjoy watching the snippet videos to see what new functionality has been added and what little tweaks are being tested. I really like the current format. If you have a concern for viewership, though, it might be that the thread is so long that some folks are nervous that it's too much to read to get caught up. If that was something you wanted to try to address, maybe I'd suggest a "Summary: Where we're at so far and what I'm looking for" kind of post in this thread, and then make a single post in the "2600 Programming" forum that references back to that specific post. That might give people a new jumping-off point. I'm also not sure if you have been updating your first post over time; if you haven't, you could edit your first post to say "Want the latest summary? Go HERE" pointing to that same to-be-determined Summary post on this thread. That might help get newcomers to a good starting point without them feeling like they have to read over a dozen pages of content. Good job so far! I always like seeing new progress; I think the end result will be very fun.

Hey there! I just wanted to jump in and say thanks for testing out the Oxygen Hose; I totally agree that it's just not going to work. But, I definitely appreciate you being willing to test out random ideas from a thread. I also think it's wise to put aside the free-movement jumping, etc... for now. Don't get me wrong; I think those would add up to an amazing game. But, it does seem like a lot of potential for feature-creep and constant debugging of nightmare edge-cases when there are more "fun" things to focus on. Frankly, it feels like you have enough features and gameplay elements now that you could design a few puzzles and actually release something of high quality with what you have. I'm really looking forward to the level designs!

Thanks for the explanation re: the crushers. I'm sure the code base must be pretty complicated by now, with a lot to keep track of. That said, it seems to be REALLY resilient to all of the new tweaks. I like the lasso! Seems like another possible element that could be fun for gameplay. It triggered a thought that if you could draw that, you could probably draw some sort of oxygen tether. I'm not convinced that such a thing would be a fun element, but I could see some Anteater-like gameplay: Start on the surface and then when you go underground, you start rolling out an oxygen tether that you can't cross paths with. However, once a boulder / geode / worm / crusher severs the line, well, then you're on your own and only have the O2 in your tank. Probably more interesting of a visual than a gameplay element, but thought I'd mention it. All that said, I can see the lasso bringing a "like Dig Dug, but it's not" feel to things, and also be really interesting for puzzle elements.

Looks great! I can see a lot of mayhem-type fun building up. And, now that you mention it, having the lava play into it could be an interesting factor for strategy. I can think of one kind of level where lava direction would be matched with gravity. In that case, a player would need to flip the gravity upside-down to empty a trove of rocks and geodes OUT of the lava below them to mine them. Trouble is, when flipping the switch, the lava also starts quickly flowing up, so you have to be quick to pickaxe the rocks. When the lava gets too close, you will need to flip the switch again to make the lava go back down-- dumping all of the rocks / geodes / doge back where they came from. Could be interesting as a puzzle element. I think you've got something here. I'm guessing you may have already noticed it, but the gravity flipper seems to have a bug in the crusher code. In the video, when the switch is touched at the 24 second mark, look at the crusher on the right. It appears to go at lightning speed straight up instead of a steady increase.

Thanks for the explanations behind the feasibility of implementing certain ideas. It's kind of funny-- I am starting to forget that software is running on an actual 2600 and because of that, we still have to worry about things like sprite limitations. The fact that the engine has come this far is astounding. The upside-down demo is brain-breaking, but a lot of fun. Looks great!

Hello! I really like the idea of taking the time to play with different concepts and see what sticks. And, I think there have definitely been successes to this approach as opposed to trying to get a game finalized and over a goal line quickly. For example, as you said, the crushers are a surprisingly big hit. With the idea of play-testing being the main driving factor, I've been trying to think a bit more of "differentiators" that could take the game-play concept and apply it more towards a space theme instead of just digging / mining. I was curious if some of these would be possible and/or fun to implement: A world with upside-down gravity Gravity machines. If you touch them, the gravity either switches 180 degrees, but I think it could be really fun if they switched by 90 degrees. This could lead to some interesting rock manipulation game-play behaviors, and lead to interesting dodging and manipulation strategies. Setting underground bombs, then running away quickly before they ignite and slowly "nuke" a radius of dirt/gems/crushers/everything Lost miners to save, trapped from terraforming projects that failed Terraforming stations (above ground) that slowly turn the dirt to greenery, plants, and eventually trees that grow up (might be an interesting way to replenish Oxygen on planets where it is low). This could also be interesting in anti-gravity worlds. Liquids that turn into impassible ice as the temperature drops. I'm not sure if any of these would be interesting to implement or are potentially already on the roadmap, but I think they could have potential to be a lot of fun while adding some story elements.

Hey there! Your "crusher madness" demo had me thinking of an idea that could help differentiate your game a bit more. But, I was curious about a limitation. I know the idea was always to mine 10 planets in the solar system. Is there a potential space concern? The reason I ask is that if you expanded a bit more, it could be fun to have different types of planets and levels with different goals as you go along. I'll give an example. Let's say you have 40 planets / levels in total. What if every fourth planet was a "bonus level / asteroid"? That asteroid isn't populated by anything except crushers. And, your main enemy on the level is time, not resource gathering-- and that time is severely shortened. The concept would be that in some locations instead of finding a resource-rich planet, there's nothing there of value. Unfortunately, the ship already left and caused a small cave-in, so you have to get to a flat area to call the ship, which means running through the terraforming crushers. But, the planet isn't terraformed, so there are no oxygen reserves. Can you get through the crushers in 30 seconds? It could be fun to get pushed all over the place and have a different goal than collecting. It would be interesting to see if every few planets had something different from the "collect coin / leave" concept. Some could be "collect the 5 broken terraform machine parts to fix it for the colonists"; some could be "find the missing colonists and rescue them"; some could just be impassible until later due to not having enough pickaxes and needing to stock up over the whole game. I think with different goals, the variety could go way up. It looks great so far, and I'm really enjoying following this thread.

As a gameplay element, are you thinking of limiting the amount of pickaxe uses? It might be interesting to have them only good for 20 hits or something, but then you have to find additional pickaxes to continue. it could also be fun to be able to stock up and buy them at a store in the Asteroid Belt or from the UFO store or something. I'm just thinking it could be an interestingway to scale difficulty between novice and expert players.

+1. When I worked on Mean Santa for the 2600, I ended up creating multiple modes of difficulty for this reason. I was surprised to learn that my play-testers were a mix of seasoned veterans, but also their children and grandchildren. The easiest mode on Mean Santa has basically no difficult objects at all, but to balance that, I limited how far you can advance in the game. If you eventually plan on having different maze layouts / bonus items / cut-scenes, you can simply make some of those options inaccessible on Teddy Bear mode. This allows people to be able to play and advance / unlock more as they get comfortable while supporting a wide range of ages. Honestly, I felt weird releasing Easy Mode on Mean Santa initially (it was just too simple in my opinion after hours of play-testing myself), but eventually I learned that it was a "gateway" level and was well received. I guess my point is that your audience is a mix of people of different levels of skills; ensuring that everyone can access the game in some way is always a good idea.

This is great! I always hoped things like this and the Scrapyard Dog maps (and other secrets, strategies, and goodies for other games) could all get put into the "Ultimate Atari 7800 Player's Guide", sort of like a one-shot Nintendo Power Magazine.

Hey there! Just discovered this thread. And I wanted to say "great job!" On occasion, I have thought about what Freeway would look like on the 7800. So far so good! I have a feature request. It's a 7800, right? So, what else could be done to take the game over the top past the 2600's hardwsre limitations? My suggestion: Oversize Loads. I envision that every once and a while, some cars start to clear out and a Big Warning banner flashes for a couple of seconds. Then suddenly, the fattest double or triple truck across multiple lanes comes by. Could make for a good adrenaline element. I would also be curious about certain types of cars having the ability to change lanes / swerve / hit the brakes. That would really be something only the 7800 could do! Of course, these could be selectable options; Classic mode vs. Deluxe mode. Anyway, just a few fun ideas. You are doing great do far! Looking forward to future updates.

These are interesting options; I'm definitely going to have to ponder a bit more. Thanks for providing them! I can see how the heatmap output could be really useful. One follow-up-- I can successfully generate the symbols and list file now, which are both great! Somehow, I was never doing that before. Can the symbol file perchance be piped into a7800's debugger? Or is it still up to me to do the breakpoint translation (guessing the latter, but never hurts to ask).

This game seems to have been long forgotten, so I thought it was an appropriate time to share the story. Around 2001, a new game called "The Core" was advertised and near completion. Unfortunately, due to an unexpected and unfortunate basement flooding, the hard drive that contained the game was completely lost, even though pre-orders were already taken. The author had talked about attempting a redo, but it sadly never happened. Eventually, I believe all money was refunded (even if it took a while), so that was at least a positive note to end on. Here is the only screenshot (as far as I'm aware): Some highlights of described gameplay: The game used the Driving Controllers (a la Tempest). Was NTSC only (no PAL) Two players only (No AI in the current version) The outer wall had 20 segments; one hit turned it grey, two hits turned it red, and 3 hits lost the game. Via Select, you could choose a "2 hit" option instead. The inner player had to defend the entire center from a number of hits defined by the Select switch. The remaining number of hits was represented by the horizontal black lines inside the center (in the above screen shot, 3) Using Select, you could choose how many rounds were needed to win. Players' wins are on top of the screen. The difficulty switches could "lock" your defender such that it rotates along the circle. Alternatively, an unlocked defender is rotated using the fire button. This is one game I think about every few years, just because I thought it would be a really interesting spin on Pong and Jedi Arena. I have always been curious if someone could duplicate a mock-up of the screenshot above with modern tools, just to see how it would look if the image was more crisp. The circle is really well defined and looks great, I think. Well, that's all for now. A vaporware title, but an interesting piece of history.

So..... are we thinking about trying again? I'll bet we could easily go for 26 recipients and break the record, while including new people.