donjn

Ive been fighting the "put your TV in GAME MODE" reply for 20 years. It reminds me of my son, who has dibilitating migraines. We have tried everything including brain MRIs, CBD oil, anything and everything for 15 years. Then someone comes along ad says "dont drink milk" or somehting like they know more than anyone. My systems and monitors are calibrated and I have specifically purchased monitors with the highest latency respionse times possible. Every single one of these C64 minis and now the 400 mini have much more lag than simply playing an emulator on my high end PC. Its because these $120 are basically molded nostalgia plastic with an emulator on a chip smartphone processor from 5 years ago. But like I said some people arent sensitive to lag and say "its fine" lol.

Some people arent sensitive to input lag and will say the lag is "fine". Its not. The 400 Mini is a piece os shit, returned.

Its a piece of shit. Fastest Amazon return Ive ever had. Not worth the $131 after tax not even close, maybe half if lucky.

This Atari 400 mini i sounding worse by the minute, mine arrives tomorrow.

I always think of an idea for an interesting article called: "Atari is trying to get you to buy Asteroids 5 times in your life." Whats going on at Atari is not unlike Bethesda trying to get you to purchase Skyrim 3 times.

This is a good example of why it's such a moving target. I think Denise is great because whats most important to me is input lag. It does not work for you because you are having other issues, maybe sound or accuracy. Everyone is different, which is why the genesis of this thread puzzles me. Some of us have higher standards and prefer the real thing or FPGA, some of us don't. There is no right answer, do what makes you happy. All of it, first world problems BTW lol.

You would think so but from my understanding these parts ARE in demand. The crucial chip he needs IS in mass production, just not enough are made for demand. Its a supply issue, demand is more than there already. This chip is used in many different everyday computers and phones I believe, so an increase in FPGA popularity isnt going to make things better, too much of a niche.

If you like C64 try Denise 64. It is miles ahead of Vice for gaming and it has "read ahead" which I put on 3. It basically makes reaction times almost identical to playing original hardware on a CRT. I've been dying for a lag-free option for Atari 8-bit, which i why I am looking forward to the Atari 8-bit FPGA: https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html

This is coming out soon, hopefully... The Atari 800XL FPGA! https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html

That's the thing; there really aren't many FPGAs, period. Mister FPGA handles almost all devices and is quite impressive but will run you $500. I know there is an Atari 800 XL FPGA coming out soon and there is also Gideon who builds the Ultimate 64 Elite (c64) FPGA (WHICH IS AMAZING) but after covid he is having issues with parts. That's it. So we are usually stuck with the real thing (a lot of us dont have the room for a CRT) or emulation. Or we can now have worse emulation for $100 with these replicas that have emulators inside them.

What's funny is that I think the emulation for Atari 2600+, NES, SNES, SMS, Sega Genesis and Intellivision etc are all in a very good state right now. It's the 8-bit computers that have bad emulation, C64 and Atari 8 bit. I would actually say Amiga emulation is better.

Both can be true, there are some emulators that are total crap as well, and have become so bloated over time that they produce lag that is worse than when they first came out. Vice 64 is a good example. The author said himself that it was never and still isn't being used for gaming. Yet, the C64 Mini and Maxi used it for their Minis and it is awful. The Atari 2600+ hardware and emulation is good, but Stella's emulation has been great for 10+ years now. And even then, the Atari Flashback series in my opinion has extremely poor accuracy. Its all over the place, is what I am trying to say.

Finally, you may not notice input lag the way others So wait, you started this thread asking "How long until this fad dies out"? then present evidence *cough, cough* showing one cheap Chinese console doing emulation very well (showing no evidence of testing lag, delay or accuracy, or mentioning which systems were tested) and then declare why you think this "fad" is going to end soon, answering your own question, and ignoring why people disagree with you. Umm..ookkaayyy... You also keep pushing this narrative that people who prefer FPGA are "snobs" or are arrogant or obsessed? Couldnt I argue the same for you the other way, especially considering your original post comes off a bit...angry? Finally, you may not notice input lag the way others do. Ever think of that? Saying something is "fine" for you might not be for other people.

Congrats, one example. I guess the myth is over!!!!

No one here is complaining about emulation on their PC. Emulating on your PC is great for most stuff. My complaint is emulators that are being run on underpowered smartphone processors from 7 years ago, stuffing them into molded plastic to get your nostalgia going, and charging $100 for WORSE performance. Oh, and putting some "metal" in them to give them some weight.

Emulation has made great strides for me in two areas: 1. CRT and retro scanline filters. Some of them have gotten so good that it makes me not miss CRT monitors. 2. "Read-Ahead" which Retroarch uses. Those two alone move me away from being an FPGA "snob". The issue is, the second option, run-ahead is not used by almost any emulators and its a shame. I am still shocked on this forum with so many of us have original Atari hardware and CRT monitors, yet we also love emulation, which has a pretty impressive lag difference vs FPGA or the real thing.

It wont run out and it shouldn't. FPGA technically is not emulation. I am not a fan of the price of the 400 mini because after all, it is an emulator that will actually run WORSE than an emulator on my PC which has a better processor. Anything other than FPGA is an emulator, pure and simple, and you can get emulators for free and run them great. You are basically paying for look of it. Molded plastic to hit your nostalgia feels for $100. Also another thing is input lag. FPGA has zero lag. All emulators have some lag, but when you introduce a weak processor AND an emulator, the lag is even worse (see C64 mini using the already laggy Vice) *Please don't mention "game mode" on your PC on monitor to fight lag. Ive heard that excuse for 20 years and all my monitors and TVs were meticulously purchased and fine-tuned to avoid lag.*

Never used them before but I am aware DVI and HDMI have some similarities, but you lose audio.

This is pointless without HDMI output option. Not all of us have a CRT handy.

Well, I lied, Xbox Series X and PS5 I do sometimes But not for the older stuff, where I grew up with a CRT and stupid fast response times!

Usually, this is the case, but I have run into many instances where it is not. The first response I always get, "turn on game mode" on your TV or monitor etc. I AM a lag snob for lack of a better word and my systems and monitors are fine tuned for zero lag. I won't even play anything wirelessly. lol In a perfect world Id have 2 or 3 CRTs but just do not have the room.

But are you sensitive to lag? I've had this discussion for 20 years. So many times I hear someone say that input lag (on X system or x emulator) is "fine" but their version of fine is not the same as mine. Now, I don’t expect CRT timing response times, of course. But I surely hope the lag is not as bad as their other product, the C64 mini.

I agree, when I watched his video it was very heavy on controller issues, almost like he should not have recommended the system. You cna use an Xbox or Playstation controller but you shouldnt HAVE to.

My concern is input lag. I am pretty sure it uses the libretro "Atari 800" core but Ive heard maybe with Retroarch. If so, for 5200 at least, I wonder if this can be hacked to use read-ahead. Response time is something I am super geeky about, and am worried the 400 mini will have lag like the C64 mini had.

Oh it was definitely cheeky LOL