BeckHansen

If i remember correctly i remember first seeing the "GPU" acronym being used when the first AGP graphics accelerators got released. Before that they were simply called graphics accelerator, again, i could be wrong.

If you included me in the "bashers" category i would like to point out i m not young enough like you say, unfortunately. And i already said which games for 3DO are better than comparable Jaguar games. Please take a look at VF and Tekken ( especially tekken ... TEXTURES ) arcade, then tell me its actually like IS. As much as i like IS too, those two games ran at a crazy speed and had a LOT more polygons and polish to them. Not to mention they were smash hits back then in the arcades ( VF not so much, but just because it had a very steep learning curve ). Tekken especially was mindblowing. It had 3D characters which were FULLY textured! Having said this, Jaguar has a few very good games that i already listed and that i enjoy still.

What i mean is that i can't argue about Jaguar being YOUR favorite console. If we are to speak about Jaguar on a purely objective level however, you cannot close both of your eyes to not see its many issues . This is what i said , nothing to do with what you got from it:). My mistake was to say *all* Jag fans , where actually the guys who take it too seriously are just a bunch. I mean , i love 32X , but i know damn well that its a fetish of mine. So if i hear people bash it i will even tell them they are right. You can't possibly defend a console that has under 50 games and just a few alright games. I hope you understand what i mean , everybody should love the console they feel deserves their love:). But i don't like seeing Jaguar users kinda whining about the Jag being bashed , as it was a BAD console then and it is now . Funny that it looks like i hate the machine while i actually fell in love with it and its misterious charm.

Good job on lumping us all into the same category, heh. What I'm personally wondering is why people go in hibernation for up to a year between posts, only to come back to egg-on the people that do enjoy gaming on this platform. I always follow this forum and a few others. I just don't have much time to post anymore. In fact i posted on a Sunday where i had no work/family schedules and was completely free. Trust me i would like to post more but i simply don't have the time usually. Especially to write posts the way i like, which is longer than 1 paragraph. I was not saying every jaguar owner is like that, but every jaguar fanboy is. I consider fanboys ( or i should say fanmen since we re all 35+) to be the people who really take their hobby/passion too seriously and end up looking funny trying to defend it as bad as they can. (especially when "bashers" mean no harm at all)

This argument is completely void and null. So the CD-i must be the best console ever for a teen right? Or the CD32. I mean you get that one game that actually works and there you go, you can happily spend the rest of your allowance on weed. I was a teen too once ( and too bad i won't be one again,at least not in this life ) and i loved to have a WIDE choice of GOOD games on my system. Maybe i couldn't afford EVERY game , but at least i knew i had the tools to play the good games once i got enough money around to buy them. And if you really think with a "teen" mindset, Jaguar fucking sucks because no one had it back then and you couldn't exchange games with your friends , which is what i did all the time with Genesis and SNES games in the early 90's, i mean everyone had either one or the other in the neighborhood. I am fascinated by the Jaguar, but it was in no way a great console , it was just bad back then. Why do you Jaguar fans always have to put it on a pedestal? For example i like the 3DO and the 32X , but i know those are my personal fetishes and if i am to talk about them in public/forums/chat i will try and analyze them as good as i can without letting my feeling get into it. On this debate, i never really understood the reason why Jaguar would be above 32X let alone the 3DO. No really. It barely keeps up with the 32X as it has 1 extremely good platformer ( Rayman tops Knuckles Chaotix imho, much better overall experience) 1 somewhat good repetitive/puzzlish game ( Tempest 2k that is , i swear to god i love it but reading your opinions it looks like it is the holy grail when it is just good ) 1 very good super scaler racer ( No games on 32X that could compare ) and 3 good fps games. The jaguar lacks genres, and when a genre is covered it is usually ugly. Take the fighting games , 3DO had Primal rage(meh) Samurai Shodown and SSF2X i mean effin 2X! In 94. No other console at the time got a port of the game that STILL gets official worldwide big tournaments going on for it . Jaguar had FFL, Kasumi Ninja , Ultra Vortek, Double Dragon V and Primal Rage. All of these together don't even scratch a finger of 2X or even SS. Jaguar has NO rpgs meaning either Jrpgs or WRPG and for the time it was a BAD thing. Nowadays you see fewer and fewer of these games, often fused with action game gimmicks but back in the 90's these things were the rage and obviously Jaguar didn't even bother to sport one. Jaguar lacks any serious poligonal racer , i mean seriously, it is that bad. But see it is fascinating. I rememeber being fascinated by Atari's vision , ambitions. Like selling a CD addon for a console that barely has a 4% market share, that's totally awesome! I mean wow, that is some fanservice right there. Or trying a VR periphal when the console was already on life support. You get the point. This is what makes Jaguar stand out now , the misteries behind those seemingly insane choices , the buried "secret" information and trivia behind the whole trainwreck. Embrace it as that is what makes normal people go on ebay.com and buy a Jaguar. Obviously there must be someone that REALLY has fun playing Supercross 3D while he could play a thousand better games on other platforms , everyone has their issues. I just think you guys should keep your issues out of the question when comparing systems or putting bricks on pedestals.

I see it needed a 020 , thanks for making it clear. On a side note, speaking of jrpgs Actually Jrpgs were no way a niche market , they were growing like crazy a LOT of magazines hyped those games like crazy. Hell, MegaCD got a LOT more recognition thanks to GA efforts mainly. Many people tend to think FFVII started the jrpg craze , when actually the genre was obviously starting to pack a punch since the early 90's , VII only smashed the doors open with a BFG blast ( not to say it didn't have an impact, but the genre was already recognized and appreciated by mature gamers, which are basically a LOT of the jaguar target ) Snes actually got a lot of steam thanks to jrpgs which genesis was really lacking of ( and Sega started investing money towards the shining series ). I think this was atari biggest fault, they couldn't see where the new market was going , no more old style arcade games , people wanted full fledged experiences . If you were in for arcade games , you had to bring out the new arcade titles , like new fighters and sidescrolling shooters like TH, MS , Sunset Riders and so on ... maybe some shooters ( which were dying in 93-4 , not jrpgs... shooters were on a freefall until the manic genre started popping up and keepin shooters afloat, and i think some manic would have been actually feasible on the Jaguar ) . Not Defender or anything like that. Ok maybe put out some compilations or some remakes alright , they were actually kinda playable ( Tempest 2K above all ), but people wanted the games they started expecting on SNES and Genesis , except they wanted MORE , bigger badder and better . That s why i said bring on Art Of Fighting for example , which was really hyped back then , only to be forgotten on consoles because of the lame ass ports they received on 16 bits , make the people see that with Jaguar you could have the full experience , on NEW , HOT games. Then , when you ve got the people in , start bringing home more expensive and story based games , like Adventure games and jrpgs. By adventure games i don't only refer to the tried and true Lucas/sierra type graphical adventure games , i refer to Alone in the Dark , Bio Hazard later , Tomb Raider ( which we all laugh about now, but the first outing was actually very very good ) .

I really think the only thing they needed was to focus on good games and leave the hardware as it was. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo and Mortal Kombat II mainly from the arcades. Then Shin Samurai Spirits ( or 1 at least ) , Art Of Fighting , Top Hunter ( the jaguar could have managed a nice TH conversion , i think ) and some sports games like BS2 and Super Sidekicks 2. Push the system for the arcade games, you keep saying they were not all the rage anymore ... but i actually remember a LOT of guys shelling out big bucks to bring home SSF2T ( and many people to this day think that version is actually good, while its really cut back actually ) and Samurai Spirits . I remember on magazines people used to complain that consoles were getting shitty or no ports from neo and arcades in general , people were still hyped by arcades. It was the only route Jaguar could have gone with success . ( they already had a nice NBA JAM port, which by the way could have been a million times better than what it is ) Jaguar had the power for those games, Atari could have told you you were bringing the arcade home without shelling mad $$$$ , then add in some games like Rayman , Flashback , Cannon Fodder, Doom like they did ( out of this world too, please ) and the system would have been complete . A lot of bang for a few bucks ( if you compared it to 3DO ). I bet this would have bought a lot of time and customers . The use this money to get good jrpgs and adventure games ( that the jaguar lacks SO damn much )

Sorry but your list is really messed up, i think you should include the Jaguar if you get the 3DO sega cd and 32X on that list. I love the Jaguar , but i love it for what it was , not for what it could have been ( if you get what i mean ) 32X , for its really limited library had a lot of very good titles add to that the fact that it s an ill fated add on that lived for just little more than a year. But the good games / bad games ratio is actually better than the Jaguar , i don't think you should put on the list while avoiding listing the jaguar. Sega CD has a lot of great games , and in my opinion ( and not only mine ) more than the Jaguar . If only for the real gems like Lunar SS and EB , PM , Vay , Snatcher , Final Fight CD , Sonic CD ( and there are a lot more ) and Heart of the Alien. Its only problem is that it has a bad ratio of good bad games , since seems strange but a lot of games were made for it , too bad a large part of those are just souped up md ports or fmv movie games. I can list you all the very very good games if you need me to . 3DO is a console you can't bash if you love the jaguar;) . Now that all is said and done , lets put away our weapons and discuss the jag vs 3DO debate without any bloodshed. Let s face it , 3DO has a LOT of great games if you consider most of the Jaguar games good. It has almost all the games jaguar has coming from the Amiga/PC scene , like Cannon Fodder , Flashback oh..and Out Of This world ( and its a pleasure to play , not like the crappy snes version ) and some more ( its missing Rayman and Nba Jam mostly ) It has a damn solid driving game , which was ahead of anything out there at the time , that is Need for Speed. It has Lufia , at least one jrpg , a genre that is really non existant on the Jaguar ( and i miss very much ) . It has Gex , which if you consider Bubsy decent , you can't say it sucks , it loses any comparation to Rayman however , the armless guy from Ubisoft is just bigger badder better. The 3DO has 2 almost spot on arcade beat em ups ports , one of which remained exclusive to it for like 3 years ( SSF2T/X). And i can go on and list a whole lot of great games on it , you can't really put the 3DO in and leave the Jaguar out , or else you re love blind. I am just replying about that list , i m not saying Jaguar sucks or anything like that. I actually enjoy my new Jaguar collection , i spent almost a year getting most of the commercially released games CIB and i take great pride in owning the cat:D, but let s be honest , you can't bash those 3 above mentioned consoles and leave the jaguar a bunch of roses. It just isn't fair.

in fact i was thinking about already getting in touch with them during their early steps in the 3d accel world that is summer 96 then releasing the console during 97-98:) with an advanced custom voodoo tech

I would release the system as it was , but i would have spent a LOT of the budget towards an arcade perfect conversion of MKII and one of SSF2X with original music and not cut like the 3DO version ( Jaguar could do that, easily ) After that , i d try and push the system as the arcade at home and later ( 95-96 ) as the ultimate 2D machine for the time then during 97-98 i d try to release a VERY good 3D successor , maybe trying a partnership with 3DFX during their early days

Buddy i thank you for replying to me nicely. ( if that phrase i remember was not from you , thanks for corretcing me , i m gonna edit my post , sorry ) What i meant by historical was that for example , Jaguar Doom doesn't feature music , has differences and feels different than pc doom or 3do doom or any other doom out there. I think, that it s important for everyone to be able to experience this differences first person. These things are what makes gaming history , the little subtle details that can really make your experience with a system/computer a truly unique one. I m not pro piracy, really, i think these are very old games ( i m ok with not letting any telegames products since i take they are still actually producing em on request ) i think it would make the jaguar more popular , and that cannot be a bad thing , right? I repeat i m not asking for free betas or games that are still in production , just the commercial roms . I have tried speaking part of the neo community in accepting emulator users but with poor results ( during 99-2000), but time proved me right with the rise of players experiencing the neo geo , more compilation started coming out , more new games since well people remembered what the neogeo was I hope my point is clear now .

I m replying to BuddyBuddies. I may look like a newbie but i ve been lurking here since long long time ago , i usually see buddybuddies almost obsessed by the Jaguar i even remember a couple of posts from him where he stated that if he could he would buy all the copies of a game in order to be the only one able to enjoy it ( correct me if i m wrong , please ) I ve been a member of 3DO communities , Neogeo community ( anybody here from ng.com?) and there are always a bunch of people like buddy(especially on neocom) that look like they re giving a system really a little too much importance. Having a Jaguar is not a status symbol , let alone having some rare carts/protos ... i always found that the best way for a community ( notice the word, COMMUNITY, as in multiple people together ) to live and prosper is to share every last bit of their info , music , movies or in this case , games... obviously the real collector will still hunt down 16 copies of Battlesphere to have a blast with a bunch of friends ( really, i m not sarcastic...i d actually love to do that , sounds like an unforgettable event:) ) but i see no reason why the new guys can't enjoy something together with the collectors in the end , it s the same passion that burns inside everyone , you just gotta keep it burning and maybe through sharing tips , curiosities, impressions , feelings even the old timers can gain something on a personal level while the new guys can learn the history of this really awesome system without having to feel like thieves ( which is really unnecessary , i think ) I hope i did not write stupid things...i like this forum , when i read this i feel like i m going back to the nineties:) , good times.. and sorry if my english is ugly, it s not my first language . ^ oh and last but not least, i m not PRO - piracy . I just feel that old system should be fully emulated and roms fully dumped for historical reasons actually. ( i like to collect too btw ... or else i d not be here!)