marigul

Here is a brief update RE: 1 hit kills...Since we were using the source code from Bubsy 1 we had to follow that framework. I think we upped the lives the player to make up for the 1 hit kills. No idea why we went with the yellow exclamation point. (maybe a palette issue) Here is a map from bubsy for the jag

Faran here, RE: MK 3 Since it was 20 years ago, that is the best of my recollection on MK3, but there might have been some other random reason why it never got too far off the ground. It's possible that there was a demo since it was just a port and we had the graphics and source...but don't quote me on that and start looking for something that doesn't exist RE: Mindripper I think we could have gotten away with a fun and cheesy game and there were a lack of FPS type games on the Jag. And we would have been able to leverage the likeness of Lance Henrikson and the full cast, so if we actually got it done I think it would have been a cool cult game no matter how it turned out. RE The pics my scanner is busted, but will improvise and try to send some stuff along and or post some pics here if people are interested in BTS stuff from Atari back in the Jag era. Glad you folks enjoyed the interview!

Random true story about BHH and Barkley Basketball... I was meeting with the dev on the project and was wondering why the projects were barely behind schedule and barely started and why he had a new BMW that seemed to coincide with the last Milestone payments. We got into a shouting match and he said why don't we take it outside! My boss at the time had to intervine before the fisticuffs....

Good general comments... In general most of the games were tough due to the following factors: -Many games developed in the UK, where the coders were raised on super tough "psygnosis" style games. -Games were tuned by testers who played the games 12 hours + a day, thus we though they were too easy -Some of the coders were champion level arcade gamers RE: Bubsy honestly I don't remember Bubsy being that hard (but see comments above), plus a game made around the theme of fairy tales, obviously should have been easier Mindripper doomed to fail, but hey I got to go to Bulgaria and see the set of the movie. While hindsite is 20/20, the whole was great experience and intro to the industry, but obviously everything was doomed to fail, but glad to see the community and some people that still enjoy the product. tell us what you did on the Jag. I know I went to that 1st E3, but can't remember whether it was w/ Atari or not... Either way I worked on "classics" like Bubsy Barkley Basektball Brett Hull Hockey Supercross/Motorcross Baldies Cybermorph Lynx Lemmings Jimmy Conners Tennis Beach Volleyball Raiden Dino Dudes A little bit on avp Mindripper probably some other stuff I can't remember...I was a tester, producer, designer,etc. Sweet! We have a Bubsy fanatic here at these forums, he absolutely loves the game and made some great youtube videos of a playthrough. Most everyone else though finds the game extremely difficult because of the 1 hit kill. Barkley Basketball for the Jag is actually available for sale on the net even though it was never officially released. Same deal with Brett Hull Hockey. Supercross, almost everyone hates the game because of the reall low framerate but I actually like it cus I used to race motocross. I made a playthough video of it on youtube. Baldies has some fans but isnt a very well known game. I peronsally could never figure it out myself but im not much of a cerebral gamer. Cybermorph, I really love this game. Seems like half the people who play it dont like it cus its a huge and somewhat difficult game while the rest of us really like it. I actually like it more than Battlemorph. Just something about it. Raiden on the Jag is great, pretty much everyone likes it. Dino Dudes has many fans. funny game. AvP everyone knows about. dont know much about Mindripper but found this http://www.cyberroach.com/jaguarcd/html/mindripp.htm

tell us what you did on the Jag. I know I went to that 1st E3, but can't remember whether it was w/ Atari or not... Either way I worked on "classics" like Bubsy Barkley Basektball Brett Hull Hockey Supercross/Motorcross Baldies Cybermorph Lynx Lemmings Jimmy Conners Tennis Beach Volleyball Raiden Dino Dudes A little bit on avp Mindripper probably some other stuff I can't remember...I was a tester, producer, designer,etc.

hmm guess I will have to watch this car wreck and see if I'm in it...

I have a Purple color, the speaker doesn't work. Let me know if interested. I also have camera, printer, some unused rolls and a link cable.

I have a sealed Lemmings, let me know if interested I need this: Super Off Road curved version. Complete or loose. Second on my list... this lovely Japanese cart style. Anyone? I still have a bounty out there for a Japanese Klax Atari Lynx cart. Looking for this Desert Strike: Looking for other Lynx items as well: Pins, store displays, promotional items... etc I will eventually be looking for Atari Lynx items boxed as well. (Sun visor, battery pack, rechargeable battery pack, even the Lynx cases) CGE 5th and CGE Cybervirus... I have funds on hold for those if they show up on ebay.

Ah the classic apology letter...the parties involved had a drunken rampage throughout the building. minor vandalism and inappropriate use of toiletries, amusing at the time. Not that I'm condoning the behavior, but a lot of unpaid hours had gone into the titles you guys love? and this was the release valve...

I am selling my sealed edition of LEMMINGS for the LYNX. Lemmings for the LYNX Thanks...

I am auctioning a rare issue of Videogame Advisor. This was a vid game industry mag back in the 90's This issue features a recap of the life Death of the Jag. The article was "ironically" written by Chris Hudak--one of the creators of Black Ice/White Noise for the jag. Video game Advisor

If Atari had 'burnt their bridges' with the retail/dealer/distib. sector as people had claimed, why didn't atari just reduce price, spend/do more on 'co-marketing' and sell direct to end users and not through retail/dealer markets co marketing as in joining with well known media organisations, getting them to offer free advertising in return for a percentage of unit sales based on enquiries/leads received therough the free advertising thru that media organisation (effectively paying for the advertising) Also, Atari relied to much on big name 3rd party support, what atari should have been doing is going down the independent s/w publishing sector (i,e not your us golds, ocean's, EA, activisions etc) that way atari would have a should have a consistant supply of quality games coming through I don't recall any big bane 3rd party supporet except maybe id. Many of the games like Bubsy, NBA Jam, etc. were all licensed deals and funded by atari. To my knowledge none of the big boys were interested in working with us but would take the Tramiels money for a license deal. In regards to co marketing or marketing...the Tramiels for the most part were not in the business of giving things away for free, they wanted the whole pie.

Yeah it was a skeleton crew. The Tramiels had money though. And they had some clout as did the name. They just didn't have the desire to market the product. In reality marketing is key. Old school sales people have a belief that the "product sells it self", this may (or not) have been true at sometime, but today you need a good marketing and promotion engine behind your product. Its actually pretty easy to design and make (to prototype) a mid range game system, technically I have done it a few times at the last company I worked for. It all comes down to software and marketing. Even if you had a skeleton crew you can farm out a lot of work. As long as you could market and distribute it you could probably make money if the games were good.

That's the ting though Sam kind of let the computers die with a wimper rather than fighting to keep in there alongside MACs and PCs, someting Jack might have handled differently but that's another discussion... Who knows what such a situation would have meant for Flare though (or games at Atari in general). Still, as things were, the more I find out about the situation, the more it seems like Flare might have been better off partnered with someone else... (especially a current major player in games, like SGI did with Nintendo) My memory is a bit fuzzy on somethings since it was a while ago and I arrived at Atari as they were winding down the computers. The TT was kind of an oddball machine, I and I think the only way they could get rid of them was by forcing them onto people with Jag dev kits. I was never sure what the deal with Flare was, from what I recall Panther was flawed and not sure who was responsible for the buggy Jag hardware. I always heard that that it was a "sacrifice" to rush the console to market. My guess is that Flare's designs, while innovative were too "quirky" to be sold to anyone else. And at the time video games were hot, so I think they thought they could make money by releasing a game machine. For most of my time their I don't think the completly gave up on computers and I think they were hoping the Jag would allow them to return to glory as a computer maker. However, they didn't put proper marketing or production resources into either. And admittedly when the transferred a bit of control (like the chicago office), that didn't turn out well either...

At the end of the day Atari had the mentality of the product sells it self, thus spent a small amount of pennies on marketing. Of course do the math was a horrible slogan for a device that wants to be fun. Then there was the ads in the zoo (I think with animals f*cking as I recall) and wasn't there an infomercial? Had the programmers been able to advantage of the main processors, there probably would have been some cooler stuff and the machine would be more in the TG-16 status of cult rather than the kind of cruel joke status it's in now. It's cool too see that there are defenders of the machine out there and appreciate the long hours that we put into the games no matter how crappy some of them turned out. Actually the mags wanted us to succeed, as true gamers they were excited to come around, but at the end of the day there were too many delays and most of the games were not worth the wait, so I think at some point they formed a grudge against the machine.

Ex Jag Peeps? Well we have the fortune of talking to Trevor Raynsford who developed the sound and music engine for Bubsy, and Raiden, and who ported Zool 2. Come join the conversation. http://freejag.atari.org/forum/index.php?topic=51.0 As for anecdotes, anything you can remember, but what you had to say has already been great. Yeh the fractured fairy tales was a good angle and I'm really glad that the Jaguar had a unique game with Bubsy. Bubsy and Bubsy 2 can be found on the SNES, Geneis, and Gameboy, and it is fun to say "but the third game is only on the Jaguar". A lot of people have played Bubsy Fractured Furry Tales on emulation, so really thanks to this game a lot of people have come to try the Jaguar that would not have usually. I've been trying to peek into the Bubsy game and I've really come to appreciate how it was put together and have some questions on how some things worked if you are up for some technical questions (understanding that it has been about 15 years since Bubsy FFT came out.) Here's a fun anecdote, it would be fun to find out how you came up with the idea of some of the more unique villians on Bubsy FFT (or Bubsy 3 as I call it) Can you recall where they got the inspiration for ... 1) the Flamingo that is all punked out with the mohawk (many have liked that.) 2) Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum (the electric yo yo's, the balloons with poison gas... deadly until you come to understand how to beat them.) 3) the egg throwing snake. 4) That pissed off looking rabbit. Ok, nothing special on that one, just that the rabbit was a pain in the a$$ when I started playing. 5) The concept behind the Mad Hatter and that tea kettle he drives. 6) Not forgetting the bee... a real pain in the a$$ at first. Much like bull fighting strangely. Almost the blood hounds of this level and parts in the rest of the game. 7)The Chesser Cat... nice and creepy with that deadly saliva when he sticks his tongue out... interesting. We'll start with the Alice levels for now. Actually I assume Imagitec came up with most of the creatures and I probably threw my 2 cents in as well. The game was made by slightly post adolescent boys making a game based on fairy tales. I am sure we just took standard fairy tale tropes and edged them up a bit within the bounds that we could. And because it was made in the UK, the difficulty level was probably needlessly hard. Plus as I recall the control scheme and gameplay of the original Bubsy game were nothing to write home about. I am pretty sure what eve code wise could be pilfered from the original was. I think this was pretty much a 68K based game too, so I suspect maybe the genesis code was cribbed. But hey it was a long time ago, so i do forget some of the specifics...

Just skimmed through this thread..as someone that was there..lets say most of the people on the ground at Atari had simliar ideas. But the Tramiel's were autocrats and some of the siblings were there because they had to be. Plus they had no real joy for games, they loved computers(and money). But if they had spent money on marketing and got rid of a few bugs in the system, it would have been a cool little machine and even if not not a huge success wit would have had a fondness beyond this forum. I'm grateful for my time their because it got me in the biz...but unless the Tramiels had given up the reigns there is now way the Jag could have been successful.

Wow great of you to show. Well, for starters, what was it like working on the Bubsy project? How long did it last, what were the people like that you worked with? It seems that you were trying to at first port Encounters of the Furred Kind (the first Buibsy game) but that the plans changed. Can you give more insight on why they went the direction they did? As far as Bubsy being hated or loved, I am finding that at least for those that liked the Bubsy games that they think the first game and this game were the best of the series. (And don't forget to look at the Bubsy fan blog which is mostly dedicated to the Jaguar Bubsy game, but covers Bubsy in general. Probably the best Bubsy resource on the internet.) http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=234& Here is what I can remember off the top of my head. Atari for whatever reason bought the rights to the Accolade library of games (Bubsy, Brett Hull Hockey, Chas. Barkley, Baseball and probably some others I am forgetting). I was in charge the Bubsy Brett & Barkely. Bubsy was a lot more pleasant a production than Barkly or Brett Hull which were complete f'n nightmares! I am not sure but we may have been contractually obligated to create new "jag" versions of the games. (either that or we thought it would be better to have original content--I forget). My guess is the developer Imagitec used the original code/art to get started and use asa framework thats why its there. The game took about 8-10 months to make as I recall. I think it had to be out for xmas so it was probably a Jan-feb to october production cycle. Imagitec did Dino Dudes, Raiden and probably some other Jag & lynx games. They were far better to deal with then other Jag devs (almost all were "low bidders" and about as green as most of the staff at Atari. I think only Rebellion made it through to this generation(and even they were a mega pain at the time). We thought the fairy tale theme was cute(we were going for a "fractured fairy tale flavor), but in retrospect the game was waaaay tough to anyone that would think a fairy tale with a cartoon cat would be fun to play. The upside is that I go to go to the UK to visit the developers and that was fun! But like most games that have a hard release date, the tuning and testing tends to be rushed and maybe not all the ideas are fleshed out and executed. And while Bubsy had some name value, he was no Mario or Sonic or even Rayman. Not sure if there are any ex Jag peeps here...but if anyone wants any more anecdotes on the jag let me know.

Gasp... you've revealed your secret identity? Ok... just wanted to give credit where credit is due. Ok, so looks like we have a choice of the artist being (looking at the Bubsy Manual) David Severn, Steve Slick Noake, Colin Jackson, or Rick Lodge. Is is at least one of those four? Don't have to tell me which, I will just say it is one of those four. I am pretty sure the artist for the Bubsy Cover was Ken Macklin. He created/designed Bubsy at Accolade. I think they wanted us to use him. I could be wrong as it was a long a$$ time ago, but I know I talked to him about the box art.

Hmm I wish I could add something more to the topic as the producer on the Atari side of the Jag version. But the enthusiasm for or against is interesting. My only comment is that I don't remember it being that hard. But I came from test (or a hardcore arcade game background) as did many people at Atari, so I think the difficulty of all the games was pretty ramped up. Also the developer was British and at the time I think the trend there was hard games(psygnosis?), but obviously in retrospect the game had a kiddie theme and should have been tuned better...but we probably had to make Xmas!

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