BladeJunker

I do know that both missiles can copy 3 times by default and the Ball has no native copy ability but if you race the beam how far can you push these 3 objects in terms of copies. To add some context to my question I'm just looking into larger full screen and more heavy multicolor use on the 2600 for title screens and or art slides in the same vein of the C64 pixel art scene. The hope is a 2600 Paint type program to give pixel artists something to screw around with so here's a run down on how each object is used and object options. Background: Canvas Playfield: Bulk Fill tool. Player0: Tile bitmap. Missile0: Line tool Player1: Tile bitmap Missile1: Line tool Ball: Line tool Object Options= Background: Color set. Playfield: Color Change per scanline, Pixel thickness per scanline(1 Line, 2 Line). Player0/Player1: Tile Repeat, Tile Multiplex(2-3 Max), Color Change per scanline, Pixel thickness per scanline(1 Line, 2 Line). Missile0/Missile1/Ball: Odd to Even scanline stagger, Odd to Even scanline flicker, Width Adjust, Color Change per scanline, Pixel thickness per scanline(1 Line, 2 Line). I know that stretching either Player object cancels its corresponding Missile from use but is that effect global or just per scanline, can you stretch one Player object differently per scanline? If not dedicating one Player object to stretch use can be used in conjunction with a multiplexed non stretched Player object. If any of this works I have doubts of it being practical for real-time use on actual hardware but perhaps an external program with a trimmer more compressed format it would export for actual display purposes. Because of the technical limits I'd imagine a trial & error process in use such as composing an image, running it on a 2600 or Stella to see how much flicker occurs, and going back to revise or try it a different way. I'm including an example image of quality standards which is primarily made with 4 times wide pixels to maximize horizontal screen coverage. Its just a mockup since I'm pretty sure only one image could be displayed at a time but I wanted to show some variety. So any insight or collaboration on this venture would be appreciated.

I'm all for quick games but my god have you played Action 52, it's a pile of shit and I think everybody on this forum can do better. Now 2 hours isn't long enough but keeping it simple is still a worth while pursuit. If this catches on I'm sure some games will take on a life of there own but even a moderately small group of games sounds great. 52 games sounds good but look how Action 52 turned out, how about Action 32 or Action 16.

Ignore this I can't figure out how to delete this.

Had a little free time so I drew up a rendering map using the available sprite 2600 rendering units. I literally broke down that example video image since it was my only reference point. I didn't include space for a SCORE meter but you could just clip the bottom and top some to get space for it. The Tree, Trunk, and Ground is incredibly easy to accomplish since its just a basic Playfield graphic with 3 color changes from the top to the bottom of the screen. Since there is no tree on the right you're looking at an asymmetrical Playfield rendering setup. With the Gun sprite I think you could skew the bits or linescroll them left and right per scan line to get a gun turning animation. I just used bits because of its basic appearance but if you want something more detailed I'm sure either Player0 & Player1 could be used as long as neither the reticle or duck overlap with it. The aiming reticle shown is a flopped Player0 sprite with a couple side extensions using the Missle0 bit copied and set to 8 times width so overall it got a little big but could be made smaller. I ran out of objects for the buckshot pixels but if you could interleave the Cloud color using the Playfield the Ball object could be used for that. The duck shown in the video should be possible using Player1 with color changes per scanline and only a few Missle1 bits overlayed for any scanlines with 2 colors appearing. Also to recreate the sprites width I used a Missle1 bit set to default width to get a little extra width for the wings. Anyway I'm no programmer but I'm sure some sort of consolidation of ideas can be met with everyone's help. Let me know if this helps.

Thanks for the compliment I think your pixel art is awesome and yeah I know I went overboard. Primordial Ooze mentioned multicolor use but I don't know what degree he intended, whether that was simply colors changes per scanline, Missle and or Ball color overlays, or even a Player object color interleave. As soon as either of us get more info I'm sure we can help this guy out.

Hello I would like to help and provide you with some sprite designs but I don't know what non-vertical means. I'm fairly educated on 2600 type rendering so I'm sure we can work something out. Here is a sample. Logan

Thanks for the vote of confidence Michael I'll continue posting in the future, I've read most of your posting on fellow posters and have found them well balanced and fair. As far as "new games" versus "artistic ventures" I agree whole hardily that game play should be the primary goal of 2600 projects but if David Crane hadn't tried to push for something other than a spaceship we wouldn't have Pitfall nor the colorful games of Activision. I've never had a problem with solid simple graphics that convey the subject matter very well which your work has in spades but it does bug me when things are abstracted to a point that I can't understand what I'm looking at. I'll do my best not to get overly focused on bells & whistles but people do like them. I'm afraid I will always be artistically driven as my emotional drive for the 2600 is tempered by those that make statements of pity or excuse for every single 2600 game made even for the classic titles as in "What can you expect, its an Atari game." or "This game looks bad like Atari graphics.". Much of my research in the 2600 has been working towards a guide of sorts for pixel artists on what to expect in limitations and how to convert content and game play into 2600 equivalents. As crazy as it sounds I've been trying for stronger character and narrative representations on the 2600 despite having a weak history for that. Lastly I don't have a particular connection to the 2600 since I was very young when I played Atari but have fond memories of Stampede and Combat. I instead have an even distribution of interest at making games for all retro platforms including the NES, Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum, and even the 32X. I have found 2600 graphics stimulating as it reminds me a great deal of polygonal rendering for its careful balancing of limited rendering resources. Anyway I'll talk to you later Michael, I have the TIA manual to read among other things that will keep me from this forum. Logan.

I've downloaded a PDF of the manual you specified which looks like it can be read by a layman such as myself so that should keep me busy for a while. Do you think I should continue posting topics even if I don't grasp programming very well? I mostly came here because pixel art forums don't do Atari and I was getting tired of phony 2600 mockups that don't take into account the hardware limitations. Do you think artistic ventures are worth pursuing on the 2600 which is more popular but is underpowered compared to the 5200 and 7800? Lastly I think new games on retro hardware are needed to keep this activity alive in the long run since without fresh titles we are a snake eating ourselves forever, what do you think? Logan

You're too humble as I think you interpreted my left brain gibberish quite well and have given me the right path of thought to take. So multiplexing and flicker are independent systems that can exist separately as in multiplexing sprites in isolated vertical bands. The Ball object seems like it works better in a singular fashion for independent movement as in the Pac man sprite in Super Pac man while a group of Ball copies have to move in a Space Invaders like formation. Also the Ball seems ideal for decorative purposes as that context deals with motifs of equally spaced details that remain static. -Do the Missle and Ball objects have an origin point like the top left corner that when you stretch them do they pull to the right of the origin point or do they expand equally left and right? -Does zero work as a spacing value and if so does setting the Missle spacing value to zero then cause the Player object to have zero spacing. -Can you change the width of a Missle or Ball object to different widths on the same scan line or do you have to switch to another object to achieve that. Thank you Michael for your help. Logan

They are good and the placement and vertical seperations look fairly natural looking which is something I've been aiming for.

I inquired with the description of small sprites based on a setup of secondary sprites to that of the main Player objects which you can see in the first example image but unless size or resolution actually affects the performance of a Missle/Ball sprite rendering kernel it would seem size doesn't matter as in the Super Pac Man sprite Nukey Shay mentioned and diver LS_Dracon referred to. I have 2 examples one of Pikmin which requires heavy unit rendering through Missle and or Ball sprites although when not attacking slugs they can move in train like formations and the other is a Minecraft type setup where the game level is mostly Playfield lines with some flourishes, the player and creeper as either of the Player objects, and the remaining animals are Missles and Ball sprites. Please ignore any multicolor exceptions in sprites if such thing won't work as I can rework them to use per scan line coloring if needed. I'm assuming a Missle/Ball rendered sprite involves multiplexing instead of copying otherwise you wouldn't have independent sprite movements. So does that mean I can only render one sprite per Missle or Ball or can I leverage all 3 objects across multiple sprites?

Thank you Nukey Shay for your help so far. To atari2600land could I have stopped you?^_^ SeaGTGruff I like your game and hope you finish it as you described.

Question, what constitutes a complex Playfield and what am I getting on screen with a rewritten copy? Also can you delete posts on this forum because the last three post I made could have been in a single post, this is my first time posting.

So if I stick to a strict vertical seperation per scan line would that make up for the overhead of this type of kernel, I'm guessing I can't put many sprites horizontally in a row.

I have used that setup of rounding of Ball sprite method to a pinball game I've been screwing around with since I like my round things round, good to hear its been done in a running example.

Can you render and or animate a sprite built from Missles and the Ball in a practical manner within a gameplay scenerio? I'm sorry if my question is overly vague or that it is an overly simple question with a complex answer.

I understand how the 2600 draws things but I'm dumb when it comes to cycle costs used to achieve functions.