Gorf

Don't get your hopes up Kiddo. That's an awfully expensive project for such a niche market. I don't think we'll ever see anything like that, short of another Flashback system or the every-so-slight possibility of the Atari brand being revived to print on somebody else's game system. (Say a cheap and sleazy Chinese or Korean company with zero name recognition in North America.) Sorry AJ...... This would not cost much at all, could be done on one flashable FPGA and do it well. It would not take much in the way of developing such a system and it would be very low cost, using a small FPGA to handle all such systems. The problem is anyone having the balls to try it....they would succeed too. A Jaguar could handle anything before it easily with the right team doing this....emulation using the RISC's would be perfect for such a task.

@MathYou: I doubt most people would bother with an I-pad soley for games. The Midsummer chipset is not geared toward that but mainly video gaming. Can it be used for other apps? Sure but personal pocket gadget chips of today are much more geared toward both. It does not matter how many systems are out there, it is what you have to offer on those systems that the other systems DON'T have or could not get. Atari would have to be ready by Christmas with a new console, that can play all the current classic systems games to appeal to an ever growing classic retro crowd, and they would need several unique releases for a more modern gaming look with yesteryears feel. If they try to compete with the top 3 at their own game( four annoying genre's beaten to death), they will fail as they did with Jaguar I. If the Tramiels did what they said they would do with the Jaguar and release many of their arcade updated hits (they did not...Tempest 2k and Missile Command don't cut it alone) they would have done a lot better. There are at least 80 games Atari owns from the old days, all unique one from the other that if updated to todays graphical standards and sound, without loosing the feel of the original would do well. They do not have to take over the market at first or at all, simply just appeal to an exsisting ever growing classics crowd with updates of the oldies but goldies that would draw the 40+ age men and women gamers from back then. You know? The folks with kids and money nowadays? If they had Asteroids, Centipede ( and not that crap they released on other systems...yeah they updated it but it was nothing like Centiped,) Miilipede, Agent X , I-Robot, Major Havoc, Black Widow, Gravitar, Wolf Pack, Night Driver, A very realistic looking Lunar Lander, Food Fight, Destroyer, Space Duel, Star Ship, Super Bug, Mini Golf, Pool Shark, and many other covering a wide range of genre's...then Mutiplayer online games: War Lords, Sprint, APB AND Cops and Robbers(where players can choose being the cops or the chasee) BattleZone (not Hover Strike as a replacement for it, which could have stood on its own as its own game) Battle/CyberMorph, pay the guys at Scatologic to do a killer BattleSphere, A Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back that playes EXACTLY like the two original arcade machines did with realistic graphics and a few new multiplayer modes. This is what should have been done and while they were at it, get a few licenses for updates of games like PacMan, Berzerk, Robotron Defender(still was not thrilled with the Jag's updated versions and felt the 2000 was rushed...the Plus mode is a much more enjoyable game) Space Invaders....all of these in 3D with photoreal graphics and the same game play as yesteryear would have done well. Own the market? Perhaps not, but they could have certainly brought in enough income to interest other developers to make the same four genre's: that boring the shit out of everyone crap the top 3 systems are getting, the Wii being the only one with any real unique games...even though Mario is as worn out as Ron Jeremy's pecker....yet they still manage to do well (over)using Mario...so don't hand me any of this rehash BS. Done correctly, rehashes work. @ Animan: No company would have to go. Atari just nees to appeal to it's base which is definitely still out there. They are just waiting for the right products. Then Atari could work from there getting other top developers working on this new system. It would take proper tools and a monster support system on Atari's part and Nolan is certainly capable of handling this if he just remembers where he came from originally.

I dont make use of them and really did not use them until the Jag risc chips. There are a few reasons why I used them. One was to make a psuedo JSR and RTS instruction, which I dont use anymore and the only ones I actually use now are simply to make padding GPU main RAM code modules between code pages look neater. Outside of this though, there is no real good use for them that I have found. Your mileage may vary.

Its good to see the rules laid out again To comment on specifics... The preceding MOVEI can be the jump register or an independent register - i often use the jump register. I've also used the single register instruction plus 1 NOP for jumps between local & main. Even following the guidelines there can STILL be unexpected difficulties with Main/Local jumps if the jump to/from occurs many times in quick succession - try to space out the jumps as much as possible. My own code only jumps between main & local <5,000 times a second atm. The only time I jump to local is after I do the grunt work out in main so I never experienced this....yet.

Im trying to but it all depends on a number of things I have to deal with in real life.

That would truly be a great pity Well I do believe the source is available to SLN and SMAC so that's some hope. Then again, Who knows what direction SQM will take in his escapades. I wish him well either way. He's a good dude.

Some of have and there are still bugs where it blows up but I think SubQ mod is moving on to the N64 so I see little hope of it ever being completed.

Yeah I agree. A rebuild is beyond the scope of most in this community. WE NEED A GPU C Compiler. Just porting the existing code to a GPU C compiler would be relatively simple and should speed things up right away. Boz's tools will work on the Jag when he releases them. My guess is they would probably port the Hypertensions maps over fairly easily. Yeah a GPU compiler that can handle main RAM execution but that's no easy task. The machine descriptor alone would be a science in its own right.

Thanks for the quick response! Kind regards Matthias PS: I think we (all) should keep the discussion of this topic here, while using the sticky thread in the Programming Section for the results of the discussion (if there are any new results). My pleasure Matthias...but I fear you might be the only one outside of a handful that ever even attempt to use the main code workaround. Lots of people like to talk the talk and bitch and moan that no one likes to share this and that, but I have found out that the reason for this is those people are usually not coders and are hoping some other coder makes use of it for their own greedy selfish desires, forgetting the hard work that goes into these projects.

Iron Soldier 1 and 2 are betters GAMES than HoverStrike but graphically nothing compares with Hoverstrike on the T-mapping side. Iron Soldier 2 came a lot closer though.

To jump around in main RAM..... 1 ) Within a 256 byte page boundary...ie..The address range of a page starts at $XXXXXX00 and ends at $XXXXXXFF. a ) JR can jump from anywhere to anywhere within its range and inside the page. b ) JUMP must be aligned on a long address and jump to a word offset long address...ie...adresses ending in 2,6,A and E 2 ) From one 256 byte page to another a ) JR (if it can reach the destination) can jump from anywhere but MUST land on a long aligned address to the other page. b ) JUMP must be aligned on a long address and jump to a long aligned address...ie...adresses ending in 0,4,8 and C. 3 ) To jump from main to local or local to main(from one way to the other is the same). a ) The JUMP must be long aligned. The desination must be long aligned. However, phrase aligment is reccomended for saftey. b ) Preceed the JUMP with a MOVEI not related to the JUMP register(although I've had success with, Owl says its not safe.) c ) Obviously JR can not reach main RAM from the GPU local address so it will not work for this JR/JUMP must be followed by 2 NOP's OR 1 single register instruction not associated with anything recent and then NOP. I do not think the single instruction and 1 NOP will work between local to main or main to local but I'll leave that up to Owl to answer.

I'll post this in the programming section as well. To jump around in main RAM..... 1 ) Within a 256 byte page boundary...ie..The address range of a page starts at $XXXXXX00 and ends at $XXXXXXFF. a ) JR can jump from anywhere to anywhere within its range and inside the page. b ) JUMP must be aligned on a long address and jump to a word offset long address...ie...adresses ending in 2,6,A and E 2 ) From one 256 byte page to another a ) JR (if it can reach the destination) can jump from anywhere but MUST land on a long aligned address to the other page. b ) JUMP must be aligned on a long address and jump to a long aligned address...ie...adresses ending in 0,4,8 and C. 3 ) To jump from main to local or local to main(from one way to the other is the same). a ) The JUMP must be long aligned. The desination must be long aligned. However, phrase aligment is reccomended for saftey. b ) Preceed the JUMP with a MOVEI not related to the JUMP register(although I've had success with, Owl says its not safe.) c ) Obviously JR can not reach main RAM from the GPU local address so it will not work for this JR/JUMP must be followed by 2 NOP's OR 1 single register instruction not associated with anything recent and then NOP. I do not think the single instruction and 1 NOP will work between local to main or main to local but I'll leave that up to Owl to answer.

My ignore list grows larger... you really are SOOOOOO not worth the bandwidth you waste.

I may have been born at night, but I was'nt born last night. Well I would not hold my breath on that actually. Stronger sometimes means smarter so yes but eventually, sometimes even a battered wife gets sick of the abuse and finally moves on. I may leave for a time but I will be back...even if it's just to torment those who try to keep me down.

Yeah yeah...I know...Im a wuss. Compared to my usual responses, I think its' sickening polite quite actually. Though I am not exactly sure whom this is aimed at, part of the reason for having to post it was to set the record straight...even on other matters that certain 'other' site decided to inaccurately display. Im not trying to cause a war but instead correcting seriously untrue accusastions leveled at me and my development crew as well as defending Owl and his hard work.

I have to agree with the Laird on this one Hover Strike CD was the one game, love it or not that gave me hope for the Jaguar. Skyhammer is good but it's limited to essentially square hallways. Battlemorph one of my favorites but graphically not anywhere near Hover Strike. Owl's game does excite me because it takes it one step further with an amazing frame rate, which to me is the only real flaw in Hover Strike. Battle Sphere as beautiful as it is is the best game more so for it's AI and it's top notch game play, but Hover Strike shows the true potential of the Jaguars ability to texture map, so much so that it even surpasses a lot of PS1 games in the effects it was pulling off. Now if the Hover Strike team had something like main code to work with to dump all the 68k code, that frame rate would be doubled what it is now, if not more.

You're quite welcome. We just found out what happens... when people stop being real ... and start getting polite . . . I'm being QUITE real. His request was not unreasonable. And he did thank me. But I agree that your implication of my polite response is not that same as how I might actually feel. Does not mean I need to be unreasonable in my response. But it is you RT and you are always in a bitter mood so I can forgive you too. I know the ONLY reason you bother to visit the JAguar forums is to bust my balls...so carry on...

You're quite welcome.

please edit this "you" to "people" as it implies that i am involved. the use of one word in the wrong context may not seem much but it is to me. Ah but I'm over reacting? Come now! However, I changed it to 'someone is' to be clear. Happy now?

Yeah Curt....I think you need to relax...you know there are several of us you can trust to carry on with the project to relieve you of the burden. I being one of them. Just ask if you thin I can be of any assistance. I can do all the shipping and soldering and things like that if you need me to. See PM.

Just let it go then. and stop with all the jibber jabber, this thread will only go one way, and that's locked. I did let it go...a while ago...many months now...However, certain liars using their website decided not to let it go, therefore prompting me to have to set the story straight. I quite honestly do not care if the thread gets locked. In fact I suggested to Albert that he do so when I originally wrote it in the first place. If someone is going to spread liable about me and 3DSSS, you can bet I will defend myself and us. Most of the community knows better anyway and sees all the players for whom they really are.

Invite him in...I'd love to hear how he went about it. Too bad Zzyorxx II was never released( unless that happened recently with all the proto's being let out into the community.) Having never seen the source code to Zzyorxx II, and never seeing anyone, Thierry Schembri included, reveal it to anyone, Owl and I can still take full credit for our discovery. Anyone can execute GPU main RAM code. Even a good deal of Jag games do that. What they do not do as far as I know is jump around in main RAM unassisted. We are talking about error free jumps in main RAM. Besides, the truth is no one actually invented anything....they, like Owl and I, discovered it. It was always there and possible. It was Atari that said it was not possible. I found it becuase I did not believe them. Owl was the first I know of to jump between main and local ram. Owl and I were the first to reveal it to the rest of the Jaguar community. I was the first to officially release a game that employs it. There are also several ways to do it. a ) The method spelled out by Owl and I...look it up...it's here and on Owl's blog site. This is unassisted GPU main. b ) Using store instructions to the PC register works too...however you cant use condition codes with this one. c ) Using the 68k to manipulate the GPU to jump from one spot to another. The truth is I do not really care. All I am doing is correcting a few liars who are bitter and decided to be purposefully innaccurate about it on their websites. Mainly because they are bitter for being caught in their lies and trouble making plans within the Jaguar community. So the only way they feel they can save face is by painting me as a liar by further lying about it. Saying I stole music for Mad Bodies which is as far from the truth as they are. Also they accused Terance of stealing art work which is another bold faced lie. The only issue they can make claim to is an oversite on Terance's part of leaving an unauthorized MOD in the game. This was something I put my foot up Terance's ass for doing. Terance did not need to steal anyones music as I can write any style of MOD for him. He chose to use this mod and others after I offered him original work. I wrote one mod for him that WAS the title screen mod at one time...Terance then switched it in with the unauthorized MOD and moved my MOD to the High score screen. My involvement with Mad Bodies was that one mod and sfx/voice effects. I never had much else to do with it which is how Terance does all his games. He essentially hides all his games from me until they are close to release. That policy has been put to an end because of his carelessness. So even here these liars are just being bitter liars. The true purpose of this thread is two fold....one to reveal the truth about who actually came up with accurate main code jumping and to exposes the liars for what they are....bitter trouble making liars. They know who they are. I believe the title of the MOD I gave to Terance to use as the title screen was called 'Who Knows' and he took it and modified it to be more spooky than I set it up to be. Here is a nother bold faced lie by this crew of thugs. I would like them to back up with any evidence that Terance stole art work from a game that was NEVER released to the Jaguar. (that I know of anyway.)I would also like them to point out this Japanese manga art he stole as well. At this point the entire website is full of lies and liable. NO one bribed anyone with a free copy of Mad Bodies. That was an offer of good will along with an offer of monetary compensation for each copy sold with that mod on it. But of course when you are hopeless liars you tend to cover lies with even more lies. Nothing of which they posted on their site has even the smallest bit of truth and they know it. However, they are fine with playing on the ignorance of the Jaguar community to further their campaign of personal destruction.

Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahah! Boy I can't wait to get my hands on that piece of bakelite.