Gorf

I dont think it would have helped the games that much. Fixing the main memory execution and allowing GPU and DSP to both run 32 bit would have been better - as more people would have used C on GPU. ( At that point having a 68000 at all would be unnecessary, as C would be familiar for general game programmers ) ( I know I'd prefer GPU+DSP , rather than a 68020 ) The DSP is not designed that way. If Tom had been a full fledged CPU then you could use the DSP at 32 bits. As the design stands its does not work that way. The 020 would have added an extra processing unit that did not hit the bus and allowed the DSP a true 32 bit to that main bus. the 020 would have hit the bus every 256 bytes worth and that would have made a grave improvement. All three processors would have been able to run in parallel OFF THE BUS while the Blitter and OPL had the bus to themselves. There is no logical way to justify it otherwise. As far as the games: What you think does not align with the facts of the matter. If the 020 was there, the game logic as well as the AI would have been better served by it than trying to split those processes across the GPU and DSP that qould have better concertrated on GFX and SFX. Now if you want to argue folks just porting crap over than yes, but with a much better design you would have seen more folks taking advantage of the 020. A local TRUE cahce, a much better efficiency in external access as well as internally. Thereis just no way to argue that away. Fact is if you are going to remove the host, then you need the TOM at very least to be a true bootable processor and have both chips on sepreate buses. Otherwise is would have been no better in the way of bottlenecks, haveing those two fight over bus time with the OPL and the blitter.

Plua anyone who knows even a little bit about hardware will tell you the 020 instead of a 68k would have made a GIANT difference. GIANT.

Jaguar has to ports for expansion as it is.... the Cart port and the DSP pot....trouble was the DSP was a bug fest.

No doubt the AV and DSP ports not on the back of the unit. Dont like that on the side of it myself. Why make a Jag duo? Make a Jag II Duo.

BUMP. For those asking a lot of questions about Jaguar Development.

V8 works well. It does the trick. You wont miss much of anything in the other version other than stuff not implemented in the Jaguar anyway There are a few pieces of docs like the 6D controllers and analog controls, but you could always add that on. Though I baught several 6D Space Ball type controls for very cheap, they are hardly commonplace and not all Jags have analog. Use the ZeroSquare add on if you MUST have analog...its a job well done by ZS. I still say encoders work just as well but at leat ZS has a good means of using analogs. Genlock on Jag? For what?

Im all open for suggestions as to lower the cost for parts....newer chip designs are out there but then you need to re tool the PCB to employ them...costly, even more so at low quantities. At first any new idea is going to initially cost big bucks unless you have an uncle in the PCB manu business. I sell the carts at $40 or whatever or less if it were possible. It's not. If it were you be paying that for Mad Bodies. Gorf was $34.95 and if it was able to remain on the market that price would have dropped as the sale quantities increase. You cant do this to make a profit uless you are SSFU Sorry could not resist. That is not where my head is at. We already have many parts in stock as we planned to release several games. However we still need to get back our initial cost. That will take a couple or so releases beofre that happens. Until we deplete the current stock of more expensive parts, buy more parts, even a cheaper cost(which at first wont be hence the PBC manu)we has no choice. The majority of loyal fans do want a manual and case. Supplying several versions is also that much more of a hassle and just not worth the effort. You cant make everyone happy but we are trying. If for one want to release them as professional as we can. Now once a game has run it's course and those that will buy have bought( or better put, the cost is recouped,) the possibility of us releasing them in binary form is not out of the question and was certainly a desire. Then folks can go find an old copy of Trevor McFur or any other undesireable double, re-label it and do as they see fit. pre-order does not work for our model and more often than not has caused alot more crap than selling at a high price. Until we deplete our current inventory, changing that model is out of the question. Skunks limit the amount of fans that will get to play as does CD's. We relized this with Gorf and planned only to do Carts after this. We continue to look for ways to bring you games at much cheaper prices. Im the one who bitched and moaned at Carl for his prices, but then I realized with Mad Bodies, I was wrong and he was more than justified in his prices. It's always easier to bitch and moan when you've never done it yourself. Lesson learned. My bitching and moaning was based around older system releases and that just does not apply with the Jaguar. Bottom line, I completely appreciate Curt's stance, even if I do not agree 100% on the method's of distribution. This is all I will say on the subject.

Saline is salt water. Its more a sterilising agent than anything else. Personally I've never had a problem with using Isopropyl Alcohol. It is a very mild saline and nothing like sea water...keep in mind, contacts go on the eyeball. Alcohol is much more acidic(or alkaline based...which ever it is...forget.) @ Oval...cardboard, even the 'smooth' stuff...acts like mild sand paper.....if you dont believe me, gently rub one arm with a cotton T-shirt and then the other with the cardboard. Bet you have a nice red arm on the CB side. Just because you cant see the residue, does not mean it is not there.

Oh, a credit card! Okay, that makes sense. Thanks, good tip! This is the first time I've heard/read not to use Iso Alcohol. (Which must mean I didn't see your post from a few years ago...do you remember what you called it, or could you possibly find and link it here, please?) So, contact lens solution works for this... I never would've thought of that. Thanks! Cheers, Smeg Contact lens cleaner is saline and much less corrosive than Alcohol. Works perfectly.....oh also DO NOT use the dry card board method as pieces of the card board could get trapped in particle form in between...the T-Shirt will leave less particles, if any behind.

Why not point them out to my post where I showed everyone how to do this...a few years ago. Oh and do not use alcohol. Use eye glass or eye contact cleaner. Much less corrosive.

Jags are very well built and I never had any burn out on me. Rather amazing when you consider they were the largest scale chips apart from the big boys(Intel and such.)I expected a large failure rate but it seems that is not the case.

Not even close. Not even in the same ball park.

Like the lies surrounding the withdrawl of Mad Bodies you mean? And the accusations against us from them? Lies? Which lies are they...more that you made up?

Gee, ya think?

three false double accounts......not one...not two.....but three...all the same reboot. Gee maybe the fact that Sauron had dealings with these guys long ago? Funny what will come out in the wash. Clearly this time it's all the filth. Well Jag fans, I hope you like what you asked for, you got it.

Amazing......wonder whatthe Mods here would have done to me have I had two seperate accounts.

Nope, it's sentences like the one above that make it hard to understand you Mod preview does not make it easy to edit. And hardly an excuse for an old BBS/forum vet like you no to be able to decipher bad spelling. And my point was simply, this is a software solution and similar has been done long before the Jag even exsited. Scatologic are the only ones that actually have the UART hardware working and many nodes allowed. This software bit bang will choke once you hook up too many jags together....unless you drop the baud rates down considerably. Then you might have better luck of less choke. No slight whatsoever to ZS.

Oh I had a look back then and very impressive indeed but not the same. But I'll give you guys a break as you clearly dont take the time to read what I post or twist it into something suitable for your attacks as you 've done here. If only you guys had a clue as to what you were talking about.Im talking 32 networked Jaguar and code that is actually in a completed game. From the looks of this it is client to client only. Of course that could probably be expanded. That tother thing you wont see id scren black out in the Scatologic version and it wont slow down but instead speed up the more jaguars you add to the network. 32 is the practical limit and not the max btw. Perhaps that is where you misunderstood me, no?

Ok, so who else besides they? Don't say the Air Cars guys. They licensed the code from Scatologic.

Also the DSP port is buggy and would need Scatologic to figure it out for them anyway (since they are still the only ones to sucessfully network bug free with the DSP port.)

OK I had a feeling the DSP link probably wouldn't be a practical choice. Anyway, I wasn't referring to something that would be built now, rather a hypothetical statement of somehting that Atari could have released back then. (or would a JRISC be too expensive in those circomstances as well?) Since the J-RISC was Atari's..they only would have paid for the silicon which more than likely would be nothing. I supposed they look at it in terms of profit...why add another 'extra' chip to a console when it can be sold as another GPU in a another Jag console? Who the hell knows what was going on inseid the Tramiels heads....certainly not video gaming.

The cart port is the widest way to expand the Jaguar. Those other ports are not really general purpose. As far as a device addon goes....it would no longer be a Jaguar....now it would be a Jaguar Super Charger of sorts and would be extremely costly. You'd have to extract the J-RISC Core from the nets and re-die a moer specific processor. I would use the GPU bus system with the DSP intruction set.

Aw, give him a break Owl.This is what happens when you don't read the documentation. You tend to make stuff up. However, yes and the GPU as a CORE ONLY would be perfect for the cart port as the J-RISC is exactly 32 bits wide. TOM's 64 bit parts are the blitter and OPL. You dont need two of eitehr of those trying to hog the same bus. Do all the AI and game logic on a cart GPU core and the drawing ONLY on the internal GPU. On the cart have a small private 16k RAM. You'll out class all those systems easily. The Jaguar's biggest detriment is using a 16 bit 68k and not having at least a 32 bit host instead(or nothing in the way at all.) The trouble with all this , is it's no longer a true Jaguar anymore. Im much more interested in seeing what else can be wrung out of the stock machine.

My favourite system is my 800XL, as the A8 scene lacks these drama queens. Thorsten Let me come into your house and steal all your stuff and see if you don't become a drama queen. You can blame the pirate scum queens for you not being able to get a copy. Mostly over seas and why the policy was made. Maybe if some of you Euro's stood with the developers instead of the pirates, (that means those of you who are willing to accept pirates just so you can have new games) We developers might feel like there is real support for us out there, instead of the half dozen who truly do. Chances are those half dozen will be the only ones to ever see our games. Now with that said, if you want to produce a game, put out big money to make the carts, then see some scumbag dump and hack the ROM to it before you get even your cost back, and be completely understanding of such stuff, go ahead but some of us DONT like standing around while someone is humping us in the poop shoot.

Checkered Flag: Where did you learn to drive?