philipj

Only if you have a wall of text will they ignore a thread unless you mention "JS2" and then they come swarming in to pounce just for posting an old throwback story from back in the day... Something that was fond memories for me, but not so much for others; I wonder why...? You're right about doing an engine search; just wanted to see currently where peoples head is on the matter that's all. Dude did you even read what I posted... I know the sarcasm can be at an all time high, but dam man, the refugee comment is a bit much don't you think? I hear both of you... At first I was thinking you could use the Jags 2MB of ram to leverage for some speed for graphics, but I guess that would prove highly challenging at best. There are the Saturn and PS1 CD player speeds to consider, but I can certainly see the obstacles for Neo Geo emulation... Still would be very cool to see.

Typo error... I got no real beef with CJ.

You know it doesn't have to always be a tit for tat argument over here... You guys somehow manage to make it that way. I'll respond to your quote with a previous replies. Besides I got real beef with CJ... The guy bought something to the table, I got to respect that whatever the disagreements.

Whatever you say guy... Just an idea I'm putting out there for fun discussion, but if you would be so kind, can you link you coverage of the matter so that I can read it? Faster than the JRISC processors...? The Jaguar is a 2D monster capable of doing much more than what the Neo Geo could do. Even if emulation wasn't possible, a decent port of a Neo Geo game isn't that far from a possibility provided the ROM size issue is taken care, which will be when the new SD cartridge come into play. Edited: One more thing I like to add on a positive note... I actually like how Neo Geo handles all of that data using the little resources the system has as far as memory goes. They just had a few kilobytes of memory to work with yet they were able to use all of that graphical content and animation very effectively. It wouldn't be the first time me giving some accolades to the SNK console; I just admire how they used their system and made the most out of it.

I hear you... The whole Neo Geo thing was someone else idea, but I embraced it because I think it would be a neat project for someone to make the Jaguar Neo Geo compatible... It's got the core 68000 in there just like the SNK system; the only emulation needed would be the other processors like the sound and the graphics, but the Jag can handle it. It's more of a curiosity thing with me then anything. Probably not... I'm not at a position to do it myself, but it wouldn't hurt to put it out there; I think someone will attempt it at some point in time. Too many agreeable circumstances for it not to happen as far as the hardware is concerned.

Well some have already discussed the topic till infinity reason being the dead horse thing I suppose, but I do have a lot of fun talking about stuff like that from time to time even though I've been down the road before, it's still a lot of fun. I think for some who are programming it's just some subject matters that they've already settled and probably don't want to go down the road again, but I don't mind sometimes. It somewhat serves as a reminder of the whole game enthusiast scene even though I don't play games as much as I use to; I still play them from time to time. So yea I understand what you're saying; I feel you buddy. Just express yourself anytime you feel like doing so.

That's really neat Flux...! Congrats.

I'd like to see Neo Geo games emulated on the Jaguar. Agreed... At this point any game for the Jaguar is a good game just to get some more good stuff going. All bets are off. I think there's a C compiler being made for the Texas Instrument TI-99/4A... If it can be made for that, it can be made for anything.

It would've been cool to see something like that happen just to know what resources they would use to pull off some neat graphical tricks and gameplay... I'm more interested in what can be done on the system now, more than what could've been. That's always been the case when I first got into the scene. "Fight For Life" has a pretty decent animation system; would've been nice to see a "Mario 64" style game or some sorts come to fruition back in the day, but it's never too late to see one now. Perhaps "Crystal Castle 64" in 2018 or some other kind of good 3D platformer...? It's possible to work around the control factor especially with the newly released reproduction 6 button controller that has the left and right flip buttons on them for the Atari Jaguar. Back in the 90s, the N64 controller really bought something new to the table with the 360 control stick that Sony later follow-up with 2 of them on one controller they released and it became an industry standard. But if you look back before those then, you had the SNES controllers and the 3DO controllers with the "left and right flip buttons" on top of. Well the 3DO made good use of those buttons in navigating in 3D environments using the analog controllers; the N64 digital 360 controller stick simply added a broader range to that affect making the gaming experience much more interactive then anyone could've expected back then, but the basic blue print with using analog controllers for 3D control is there and can be used again and refined. Games like "Starfighter, Battlesports, the list goes on with the 3DO system and even some SNES pseudo 3D games that used the mode 7 feature in a fake 3D environment where you use the controller and the flip buttons to navigate within those environment; it's all there and can be used again. Once again I turned a simple reply into a full on paragraph, but I'm highly enthused about what the Jaguar has to offer today more than what it offered in the past. Definitely something I've been down the road more times than I can remember and I just like to see some new stuff.

Actually I was going to mention the 64bit blitter early on, but because of CyranoJ's work on the Raptor, I didn't quite know what kind of technobable he might come up with to dismiss my talking point for whatever reason he's doing it. I think if the GPU had more memory to work without issues with the Jump, or even a separate 30 or 60k of its own memory at-least, through software, it could borderline becoming a graphics accelerator. Even the 3DO had a full 1-MB or GPU space to work with. What was it...? 4 pixel per 8-bit intensity calculation for shading and 2 pixels per 16-bit intensity using the Blitter via the JRISC? Same thing I heard or read... Would've gave the Genesis and the SNES a run for its money if they'd market the system right. I got to start somewhere technobable or not... The Jaguar is a very different animal than the average 3D system so the approach making a good 3D engine will be very different and unconventional then the normal way and the only way figure out the angles is to look back at system before the Jag that rendered 3D in similar fashion, but I'm taking things off topic a little bit, but I feel very strongly about that opinion and have for a long time, which is probably why I bring it up so much. More wall of text.

I made distinctions between the two when I quoted that the hardware was already in the graphic workstation industry... Not made up and not all technobable. I stand by what I posted. It's not hard to have a basic understanding things of that nature without all of the technicalities so no technobable what-so-ever.

That game reminds me of "Guerrilla War" by SNK... This was the neighborhood go-to game when in the mid 80s thanks to a local handy-pack store that had the game. Everybody in the neighborhood knew and played this game to death with some even spending tens and twenty dollar bills in quarters to beat the game. The game-play was very brutal.

It's not really made up... The N64 and PS1 is based on MIPS technology that was already a well established 3D tech being used in multiple industries SGI computer graphic workstations; all Sony and Nintendo had to do was use what was already established as far as what was graphically possible and it cost in the thousands outside of the average consumer... I know it's a little off topic but bare with me... Although Atari had Star Wars, I-Robot, and other vector based games, it wasn't on the level of what the workstations were doing. They almost had a good 3D arcade system with "The Last Starfighter and Air Race" using the early TMS Processor but the machines were too expensive to release, but would later lead up to games like "StunRunner and Hard Drivin" that made good use of gouraud shading when the DSPs became affordable to buy, but still not on the level of a graphics workstation at least not in the way they used it. The 3DO had great 3D graphics probably using hard floats to pull it off, but cost an arm and a leg thus was abandoned... The Jaguar, on the other hand, offered or had the potential to offer an alternative, something more tangible for 3D graphic in gaming that was very unique for its time even though the system, with all of its potential, was a bit of a lemon when they rushed it into market in beta form basically releasing an unfinished system to the masses and not the classes (get it). Not so much the Jaguar versus the SGI, but the way in which it was made internal and released in the market well before a decent 3D card was released in the PC market in 94. Technically for an ST owner, using the ST as a terminal for the Jaguar would've made available extra graphical extensions/capabilities that would've cost the average PC owner a whole lot more than what the Jaguar cost. That's what I mean by unique; of course I don't expect mind readers to know that so there you have it; that's me seeing the glass half full and like I said earlier, I can go on and on about that. Was that enough "wall of text" for you...?

Nice...

What's so nonsensical about my quote...? We all know the history; the Panther wind up becoming the Jaguar, but I guess I did take it a little off topic here bringing the Jaguar up. Next time I'll do better keep things in to context. Glass half empty...

What about Zero 5, Doom, Fallen Angle, Battlesphere, Checkered Flag (Modular style 3D despite choppy framerate), Battlemorph, Tube SE, Skyhammer with texture mapping...? Sometimes it's best to look past the fault and see the glass half full instead of half empty.

I think if Atari given themselves at least another 2 years or a year and a half or so to work out the bugs on the Jaguar, they could've beat the PlayStation 1 by a year with a better Jaguar system... All wishful thinking at the end of the day; could go on and on about something like that. Despite the hardware flaws, I think the system was very impressive for its time considering the hardware it had. It was like a mini graphic workstation of a very different type to what was already out there with it's own unique 3D capabilities. The PC and gaming world was just moving at a pace Atari couldn't keep up between 93 to 95. Also I like the way the 7800 graphic chip works... It could've given the NES a run or its money; at least they made provisions to allow for a Pokey to be added to the game cartridge versus being stuck with 2600 sound chip. Still waiting on that XM module to be released, but that's for another topic.

Me either... I got bills plus I'm trying to get another car/truck; plus Christmas around the corner not too helpful. Very tight on my end. I'll eventually get the controllers just not right away.

You're welcome dude... For the record there's one more thing I like to add... At the time I made that song, a game called "Capoeira Fighter" was out for shockwave player. That game also had an influence for inspiration; I would love to see this ported to the Jaguar.

Before "Protector SE" was released, Songbird had a contest of some sort where I submitted my song... Because it wasn't in a mod tracker format, my entry never made the cut... For that matter I'm not even sure if Mr. Forhan even knew or understood what the entry was until later after explaining it to him via email... Even more so, I don't know if he even remembers to be brutally honest, but it did happen and I did show him the program some years ago (who remembers an email these days). lol Through out this journey with the Jag, for what it's worth, Jaytrax was my main source of making music that was game oriented... For example I was a big Namco fan especially the "Tekken 3" arcade, which was just the one of the most bad ass game I've seen next to Killer Instinct, they released a slew of arcade games and was just knocking it out of the ball park. My favorite character was "Eddie Gordo" with his capoeira fighting style... I was already a big fan of the martial art with the "Richard Meyer" character in Fatal Fury and maybe a movie on the art form. One day while playing "Fight for Life" on Jaguar with the hope of making my own fighting game, I thought to myself if I was a make an Eddie Gordo kind of fighter, what would his theme song sound like, so guest what I did... I took off to Jaytrax and composed a score using sounds from real Brazilian capoeira sessions and I had a lot of fun doing. I think losing the experience to father time would be kind of sad, catch my drift? Tell you what I'll upload the song for download and whoever want to can check it out or themselves. I've made a few minor changes from 2005 to 2013 so the version you hear is the last version, roughly it's the same song from the original. Yea it was a lot of fun working on that old program... I have a lot of good memories with such an obscure program; it's even more obscure than the mod tracker itself and people are still using those. I'll upload a copy of Jaytrax with this reply; it's also available at the beginning of this topic. Capoeira Angola Frenzy (Philip Wood (C) 2013).zip Jaytrax Free Version.zip

Besides, I wish I'd thought to put this in a blog... I've already started here so there's no turning back now.

Thank you sir... There's more to come.

Well I still consider some of those guys you call assholes as friends... And no I don't go around insulting moderators like that even in the thick of all of that stuff that went on all of them years back. The way you see me post here is the way I've posted at JS2 all in good taste before things got out of control. Also I've been a member here since 02 posting here on and off, why would I stop posting here now? Now you do have to admit there's a bit of a stigma in the Jaguar community; too many unfair bans of members from past history, but then again all of the trolling that was going on in past history I don't really blame the site. I saw the asshole comment, wasn't sure if you meant for me or my friends or both. Just trying to tell my story that's all; the asshole comment felt a bit unnecessary. Besides this topic is kind of getting off track here... My focus is on Jaytrax a software that would otherwise go into obscurity less an old user like me put it out there and since I've done things with it in the Jag community, I can't think of a better place to put than in Jag forum here. The program was originally started off as an old Amiga synth program that got ported over to the IBM 386 PCs very similar to the way a mod tracker was used in game engines so when I started using the old program I approached it as such stuck with it until I reached a plateau... Although it's a great little music maker, the thing crashes a lot requiring me to save often and even losing precious work from time to time. Despite that, the program was actually given to me by actual programmer "Reinier Von Vliet" from Amsterdam I think and he seemed to have moved on career wise and have left Jaytrax behind. He did have a user base and forum out there, I can't find anyone that has used Jaytrax as extensively as I have someone can prove me wrong, which I'll be glad to here their works. I'll probably do some tutorials on how the program actually worked as some point in the future... For now I've been posting my music to help show what the thing is capable of; I've used and made a lot of tricks to get the most out of this thing. I'm not sure if I'll go into too much details considering it may take a lot to explain things. I might just start explaining the basics and then get off into some other stuff perhaps... I'm all about keeping peace.

Who says it was meant as a backhanded comment...? I'm sorry you feel that way, but it was what it was at the time. Anytime someone mention JS2 or any of the politics of the time is like trying to walk on eggshells. If all you got was Atari ST part, then you're missing the whole of the story. But then again it shouldn't be that surprising that I would get a response. It only shows that people are people are paying attention contrary to what I thought at first. Very few likes or no feedback until I mention JS2, now all of a sudden I'm an a$$hole...? For what? Look this is my story and this is how it was when it happen, this is what we thought and to some degree I believe the thought still prevails. If you're asking wondering if I still have problem ST games being released today, well then you forget that I made music for "Protector SE" which was originally an Amiga game by Songbird. Also you still release ST games on the Jaguar anyway so what difference does it make at this particular time other than to be the very thing you're now accusing me of being by simply writing down my account of history? Check it out... Read the full story before you call someone an asshole. (Not my words... Yours.)

Ok here's one of the last few songs I made on Jaytrax for an Atari Jaguar project... It was all voluntary this time contrary to the contest of the past and is purely a JS2 style collaboration with "Jason Greene a.k.a. T2KFreaker". This was around the time when the moderator at "Jaguar Sector 2 or JS2" was releasing a, then, newly found beta copy of "Fight For Life" when things were really kicking off. There was seemingly a lot of activity as far as Jaguar stuff going on at the forum at that time with talks of a "Jaguar 2" remake. One thing was very clear in the face of all of that hype was the reality of new software content for the Jaguar and I'm not talking about rehashing old Atari ST games in cartridge form, but new stuff. Just a little peep back into a history that would otherwise not be documented to kind of give a since of what the climate was at the time I started working on music for "Metro Blaster". It's kind of hard not to bring it due to the fact that it was what help to ferment what brought upon the making of the music. Like I'm doing now, I had showed of some of the stuff I was doing on Jaytrax at JS2 including what I'd did for "Jagworm", my first ever cartoon based music. This time around, the songs would be for a game that was not originally designed for the Atari Jaguar. "Metro Blaster" is a "Shoot-Em-Up or SHMUP" that was originally designed for the "Turbo Graphic 16", which T2K seem to favor at the time around 2005. He was a comic book collector and artist just like I was having a great understanding on all thing comic related so when he approached and asked me to do the music for him, I had just finished my work with Jagworm and had secretly shared it with T2K as well as some other music including an experimental "Heavy Metal" song I had sitting on the back burner and he seemed to like a little bit. After a few emails back and fourth, he wanted something that sound similar to "Nine Inch Nails"; having no real experience whatsoever making rock/metal music, purchased a copy of NIN that I still have to this day. A lot of inspiration came from that as well as some ideas I had about making heavy metal music and being comic book fans I knew that nothing short of "pure bad @zz" had to be manifested in whatever I made. I needed an edge to make the song sound different from anything out there... I owed it to myself, to T2K, to JS2 that was really popping off at the time before things went array. I was busy with school and work, but I made time to do the song learning from what I did with "Protector SE, Jagworm, and now Metro Blaster". Very similar to how I approached Protector SE, this time I'm going to have a secret weapon embedded within the song in a way that's completely different than the normal. My secret for Metro Blaster was "FUNK". Now when people think of the word "funk" they think "James Brown, Prince, MJ, and most 70s funk band of old. But there were really good principles that I saw as nuance for making Heavy Metal music as funky as possible while still keeping the continuity of that bad ass metal sound. I looked to YouTube to find a quick crash course in the elements that get people to make a "mean mug" while jamming at the same time thus I found an old YouTube of "Bootsy Collins" explaining the basic elements of funk in a video called "Basic Funk Formula", which was very simple and easy to understand; every sound and instrument is basically a drum that fits within the rhythm staring at "The One". Bootsy played for both James Brown and Parliament Funkedelic at the very heart of funk scene. What I've learned is something that was known all along is that rock music has always been apart of what would later become funk music and is deeply embedded into even heavy metal rather people know it or believe it or not. I just took the core constructs of funk music and applied to "Metro Blaster"; it was fantastic experiment and I was very proud of it when I'd finished it. Jason got a kick out of it as I made settle changes to it over time with one of the songs "Ghost Symphony" not yet completed in favor of starting and finishing "Primal Wing Assault", which is by far one of my favorite songs. Later on after the completion of the music, I did more research the relationship between funk and rock and found that Bootsy Collins own band member was a proficient guitar player name "Eddie Hazel" with his play style sounding almost similar to some of the music on Metro Blaster check out "Lampoc Boogie"; he was so good they called him "Little Jimi Hendrix". That made me feel good as an artist because that meant that I was right on the heals of that sound without fully knowing it. Now if only I can apply all of this stuff to programming. lol I hope you enjoy the music... Once again I can't express gratitude to Jeffery for posting the YouTubes and putting it out there. I haven't touched a video editor in a while so thanks man. Also I hope this music inspire more Atari Jaguar development and bring some really cool games to the table. Best regards. Edited: There's one more thing I want to note... Lessons I learned from Protector SE was also implemented very heavily during the making of the music... If you listen very carefully to the "Intro Theme", you'll notice it sounds very similar to how "Space Invaders and Asteroids" for the Atari 2600 sounds. I really was keeping the essence of the old retro sound alive as much as possible through out the making of Metro Blaster sound tracks.