erichenneke
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Posts posted by erichenneke
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47 minutes ago, Maxlean said:
Ok guys, I'm stumped. I've got my original 800XL from 1985, and dug it out of storage a few months ago to start having some modern Atari fun. Fired it up and was greeted by a black screen. This machine has a Newell Industries 256k upgrade, btw. I deoxed all the sockets and re-seated the chips, and she came back to life, but was unstable. Ran the memory test, and it would produce errors, sometimes video corruption, and sometimes lock up. I removed the Newell 256k, but left the ram chips since I don't have the original 64k chips, but I've been told that this is fine, no change. Bought new 256k ram chips, (like 32 of them), and swapped them. Thought there was some improvement, but it'll still randomly fail the ram test, and sometimes has the video corruption, and still sometimes locks. Sometimes, it'll run for 10 minutes on the ram test with no faults. So I dug out my new in box 1200XL, which tests perfectly fine, and decided to swap chips, one at a time. Swapped the ram, ANTIC, GTIA, POKEY, CPU, and PIA, all one at time. Nothing changed. I haven't swapped the smaller ICs yet. I'm kinda leaning toward the MMU, but unfortunately, the 1200XL uses a different one, so I can't swap that, and of course can't swap the OS roms. I've also measured the power supply while running a failing mem test, and voltage is stable at 5.09v. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Scott
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Well that's not a bad thing. I think you'll find the conductive paint trick will work.I swapped out the 4051s but that didn't make any difference so it must be the mylar. I'm still waiting on the conductive stuff to arrive. If that doesn't work then I'll just get a new mylar.
By the way, from my experience it works best to just use a toothpick to dip a little bit out at time and "brush" it on along the traces that have opens. Usually it will be in areas where there are tight folds or bends in the Mylar, or near the card-edge end. Let it dry really well before you start moving it around a lot again.
Test the continuity again after you let the paint dry for a bit, to make sure you successfully bridged the circuit gap before putting everything back together. Also, if you paint "outside the lines" by accident (easy to do!) don't fret, you can very easily scrape it off gently as needed. I use flat toothpicks as a brush, and they also work great as a gentle scraper if you need to remove some of the excess or stray paint too.
Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk
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I have similar question for a 800xl I have that is missing some of the metal trim pieces (above and below the function keys). For now I just used some silver paint in those areas but i'd rather either replace it or some other way to properly refurb that. It's very similar to the metal strip like on a 1050. So I'd be interested in the options out there too, if any.
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Any updates?Thank you! Replacing the mylar seems like it would be a pain.
Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk
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1 hour ago, kynikos said:
I'm not opposed to trying the paint fix as I work on a lot of other computer/game console electronic projects so I could probably use it for something else. Do you have a link to a specific product so I can get the right thing?
Do you happen to remember how much shipping was on the mylars from Best? I've ordered from them a few times so I know the drill.
This is the stuff I've always used. Last time I actually just bought it at Advance Autoparts.
Permatex 09117 Complete Rear Window Defogger Repair Kit, Single Unit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ALBZJY/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_DFNW5AK6PD2G184NMNCR
It's been so long ago that I purchased those Best Mylars that I can't remember what the shipping cost was for that.
-Eric
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Hmm, tough call. Personally i am a big believer in the conductive paint approach because I have had a 100% success rate after many many fixes. That said, I have also bought some Best Mylars as well, but I've never had to use them because the paint fix always worked, and so far (in some cases several years later) are still going strong. So I am just holding onto the Mylars for backup if needed some day. If you don't already have any paint, and if you don't plan to troubleshoot more systems in the future, well then you might just want to go for the Mylar and be done with it.
You could try testing just up the trace a little bit, like a half inch, from the edge to see if it is solid. If so, then trimming it a bit could be an easy fix with nothing to lose too.
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I agree on the alcohol rub. Be gentle with it though. But that often helps.
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38 minutes ago, kynikos said:
Ok, finally got a chance to open it up. The case screws were still torqued down so I don't think anyone has been inside until me. Everything is in good shape and very clean. It seems like a type 4 keyboard with the metal plate on the back from what I can tell. The mylar has some black coloring near the connector and part way up the top ribbon that goes all the way through one of the lines. I'm not sure if that's normal or indicates an oxidized trace. I planned to try swapping the 4051 chips as suggested but accidentally broke a pin off getting getting one out as the sockets were pretty tight so I have some more on the way to continue testing.
If a 4051 pin broke off really easily, it may have been deteriorated/oxidized and making poor contact with the IC anyway. So probably not a bad thing you are needing to change it now anyway. Those are cheap and easy to get.
The coloring on the ribbon cable could be a sign, but not necessarily. Do you have a continuity tester? You can start checking the portions of the traces on the ribbon exposed right now (those first couple inches from the edge end) while you are waiting on the 4051 to show up. Often that area will be a source of an open or two and at least you'd have a headstart there (and/or confirm they are all good up to that point at least).
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There's a really interesting ANTIC podcast episode featuring JD Casten here... (granted, that was back in 2014 though!)
[ANTIC The Atari 8-bit Podcast] ANTIC Episode 9 - The Atari 8-bit Podcast - JD Casten & Steve Wilds #anticTheAtari8BitPodcast
https://podcastaddict.com/episode/113369340 via @PodcastAddict-
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1 hour ago, bfollowell said:
Yeah, bad 4051s AND bad mylar traces. What a combination! I bet that was a pain in the butt to troubleshoot.
Yeah, I've had to do both before but I think that was the first one that required both to get all the keys working! And also 2 RAM chips (some pins had oxidized and cracked in half on 2 memory chips so they just weren't making contact with the socket).
Sent from my KB2005 using Tapatalk
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19 minutes ago, bfollowell said:
Having several keys in a row or column, according to the keyboard matrix, go out is also a clear indication of a bad 4051 multiplexer. There are only two and sometimes just swapping the two to see if the problem moves to different keys will tell you if one or both are bad. If you have another known good machine, swapping the 4051s between the two will rule this out as well. A whole row of keys is quite a few to be out though, and like the previous posters have said, assuming you have a mylar keyboard, having dirty or broken mylar traces is probably the more likely culprit in this particular case.
I agree, the last 800xl I fixed required one 4051 to be replaced, and also some mylar traces (broken traces that were open) to be fixed. Then it was perfectly fine.
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One thing to emphasize... After you take the backing plate off the bottom side of the keyboard assembly, do NOT NOT NOT ever flip it over. You'll be hunting for, and picking up, tiny little springs for the next hour of your life if you do!
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Permatex defogger repair kit conductive paint is always my go to. And a continuity tester, trace by trace.
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Also. You can only DIMension a string once, so place that somewhere in your program (where you want to do your initialization/housekeeping stuff, etc.) before you use it, but not in such a place that the DIM code will be executed again for the same string, or you will get another error.
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16 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:
Just getting into TBXL and for the life of me I can't figure out this error:
ERROR- 9 DIM AT LINE 1000
corresponding are :
1000 ? :INPUT "CONTINUE ? (Y/N) THEN HIT RETURN ",A$
1100 IF A$="Y" THEN 15
1200 IF A$="N" THEN ? "WILDHORSE ":END
1300 GOTO 1000Any thoughts on what the problem may be ? Tried it in Basic XL and it worked fine. Thanks.
Yes, you have to initialize the string dimension for A$ before using it.
Add...
900 DIM A$(1)
...and you'll be on your way.
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If your TV or monitor has composite a/v in (red, white & yellow RCA jacks) then the easiest way to get a good picture from an 800 is to get an svideo to composite a/v cable like this...
https://www.vintagecomputercenter.com/product/a-v-audio-video-tv-cable
I've also had good luck with these from Hercules workshop as well.
If you decide you want to later improve from there, you can pursue all kinds of ways to perfect the picture on a modern TV such as using a retrotink2 interface, or using a Sophia2 gtia chip replacement, and there are many other options and approaches, but I'd suggest you start by just getting the 800 svideo out connected to your a/v composite in, and you'll be on your way. The 800 svideo out is actually a really good signal most of the time.
Don't even bother with the RF out unless that's a last resort. You won't be happy with those results
Eric
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i just bought an 800XL over the weekend that has the exact same wires. Seems extremely common, but I'm not sure why.
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all the boxed software is pretty impressive! I don't think I ever saw the box for trailblazer. Cool.
If you have a TV with composite inputs (RCA jacks) then the easiest way to get a good picture is to get an svideo to composite cable if you don't have one and connect it that way. If you need to connect via HDMI you're going to need some kind of converter, like a retrotink2 (which works extremely well).
https://www.vintagecomputercenter.com/product/a-v-audio-video-tv-cable
https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-2x-pro
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49 minutes ago, Preppie said:
Yeah, sorry about that guys. The code assumes plots start at 0,0 which isn't true of all setups. You can just add a plot0,0 but then it breaks the 80 character rule:
0DIMZ(9),R(9),W$(99):GR.28:C.34:F.I=1TO9:R(I)=22:Z(I)=I*4:N.I:DR.39,0:DR.39,23 0DIMZ(9),R(9),W$(99):GR.28:C.34:F.I=1TO9:R(I)=22:Z(I)=I*4:N.I:PL.0,0:DR.39,0:DR.39,23
It's funny because I thought of using that same trick in MetroSync for the Life Energy Status Bar to save some characters in the code. I was going to just start with a DR. (without a PL.) But I found by doing that it didn't work in all config situations when I tested it under PAL vs. NTSC and various models/OS and DOS combinations, etc. So I decided the PL. needed to stay! These 10 liners are all about compromise, as we've mentioned in this thread before.
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Burgundy purple mist.
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Also, Altirra basic is great and compatible with Atari basic, BUT it is much more efficient and faster than Atari basic. Which is great, unless you want to intentionally run at the "real" atari basic speed.
So I recommend you get the Atari basic rev C rom as well and use that to run the PUR80 10 liners (which all require Atari basic). Unless you want them to run much faster, which can also be fun depending on the game, of course!
Eric
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3 minutes ago, erichenneke said:
Just hit reset (F5) or type GRAPHICS 0
Unless you are literally talking about the window size the emulator is running in. If you are saying that is small, hit Alt+ENTER to go back to full screen.
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12 minutes ago, AMSDOS said:
Yeah!! I got Altirra v3.91 up and running with something and using the instructions from the Zombie game, I just needed to setup a Joystick. When the games ends though, there's a small BASIC Window at the bottom of the screen, is there anyway of changing that back to full screen or is that is that how it is with Altirra? The only time I could get a full screen was when I selected BASIC from the List of Cartridge Options which comes up with Altirra BASIC 8k, but when I load the ZOMBIES.BAS, the game starts up immediately.
Just hit reset (F5) or type GRAPHICS 0
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On 4/6/2022 at 5:51 PM, ZeroPage Homebrew said:
MetroSync (A8) by Eric Henneke @erichenneke | WIP Binary (20220405) | NOTE: Part of NOMAM BASIC 10 Liner Contest 2022 | Listing Updated: Apr 6, 2022
Just clarifying that the .LIS and .ATR files at those links are indeed the official "final" version of MetroSync.
You can be certain if you open the .LIS or .BAS file and look at the very end of the Line 10 comment. The official/final version has a prime ' (apostrophe mark) at the very end of the comment line.
So it should look like this... see the ' at the end of the line... that is the final version.
Thanks!
-Eric
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800XL Hardware Issue
in Atari 8-Bit Computers
Posted
Have you checked all the solder joints on the RAM sockets? Perhaps it's a bad/unreliable joint or two causing the erratic behavior. Might be worth just reflowing those to be sure.