4cade
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Posts posted by 4cade
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11 hours ago, mr_me said:
What Tomy handheld is that?
Tron VFD! And it even has tactile orientation, before the 'cross' d-pad
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On 6/6/2023 at 6:56 AM, majors said:
Here are some pics with a Sears INTV controller for comparison. No mylar, just bread'n butter betty basic PCB, seemingly completely directly wired.
Hey, Majors - I've you're reading the new posts, you've seen that I misread your post - wow that was the Bandai controller? Did you just open your up to take those pics for me? That is so cool, even though I misread it and thought it was the Sears controller, that is a huge bit of info for me, I'd given up on seeing the internals of the Bandai - thank you so much!
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50 minutes ago, fdr4prez said:
No, please read all the posts carefully in the correct order.
those internal controller pictures are of the Super Vision 8000 controller.
The sears controller is the one on the left (the thinner one)
Thank you for the correction; so those internals were the Bandai? Gosh, you're right I did totally misread that - thank you for the correction! Very interesting to see that Bandai used the same ball joint pivot that INT used (and Nintendo would later use). Man this thread has been a wealth of info, thx again FDR!
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Also - this atari kiosk looks like it is designed to have viewing monitors in that top inverted section, but I don't see any pics indicating such - anyone know?
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When Dragon's Lair hit the arcades, it was like a bomb went off. No one had ever seen anything like it, and I remember HUGE crowds of people fighting to get close enough to watch the player play their game. What games do you remember seeing this? Do you know of any pictures of these? I'm trying to find what I can, so I can document this little corner of gaming history.
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On 6/7/2023 at 6:23 AM, mr_me said:
Thanks for doing that. While it looks like an Intellivision disc from the outside, the inside is more like a Nintendo dpad. And it predates Nintendo's 1982 Donkey Kong handheld be several years.
Exactly, Mr Me - I've been researching d-pad history for my YouTube channel - personally, I think it's ridiculous to exclude INTV from the history of d-pads; yeah, it didn't do it like Nintendo, but it's still a pad shape used for directional control. Of course, I've been ridiculed for it by the Nintendo stands who refuse to acknowledge that Gunpei didn't invent everything. Well this changes everything. Well, not completely - I found another d-pad that predates the Game + Watch on a Tomy handheld. But this is fascinating to learn. Do you know what year the Sears first came out?
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On 6/6/2023 at 6:56 AM, majors said:
Here are some pics with a Sears INTV controller for comparison. No mylar, just bread'n butter betty basic PCB, seemingly completely directly wired.
Whoa, Majors - I've never seen that before!! I must know more - that looks like a traditional d-pad like Nintendo would do. So was the Sears a standard 8-way d-pad? Do you know what year the Sears first came out? Man I cannot believe this, this is huge.
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4 hours ago, majors said:
I wouldn't say the Supervision pad is identical, just similar. It's thicker, only one "action" button and 8-way disc. There is what seems to be space for an overlay, but I've never heard or seen such. I think the whole 9-key was a fad that a few consoles companys pulled(legacy?) from the earlier pong-type console, which used a 9-key to pick game modes (like the TV-Jack 5000, also Bandai). I'm sure there is a write up somewhere of the history of number pads on controllers used on gaming systems.
Ah, thx - I didn't know about the thickness/buttons. Certainly looks uncannily similar for a coincidence. According to others that have posted in this thread, Bandai prob couldn't have had any impact on INTV's keypad, because it was an early part of the controller design and was pretty much finalized in 1977 (for an originally intended 1978 release); I'm not aware of any keypads before that; Interton would've been about that time, i think that was 77 or 78
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3 hours ago, mr_me said:
I'd look at the internals of the Super Vision 8000 to see if it uses a similar folded mylar circuit switch design.
Yeah, I've tried. It's really rare, couldn't find any "repair" videos on YT, or any websites/pics elsewhere. Really bugs me when there's an unanswered question just barely out of grasp. Elsewhere on the site I saw a repair thread for the Arcadia; that mylar looks similar. Unfortunately I can't see a good picture of the balljoint pivot for the disc; I'm gonna post there and ask.
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11 hours ago, Walter Ives said:
The idea that a Mattel video game would come with a controller that had both a telephone keypad and a 16-direction disc that used a Gray code traces back to 1976, long before Chandler was hired. It was Chang who assigned Chandler the task to
Wow, Walter - thank you for that awesome info! Some follow-ups - who is Chang? Also, you say the controller design was settled in 1977; so are we to assume that there could be no influence from the Interton VC-4000 (which also had a vertically oriented controller with a keypad)? I had thought that might be the case, but apparently not from your timeline. Can you explain to me what the design flaw actually is that precludes using the control disc and keypad buttons simultaneously?
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I think one of the great secrets of the 2nd gen of video games was how groundbreaking the Vectrex controller was, I was wondering if there are any resources someone could suggest to learn more about it?
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thank you, Mr. Me. man that is too bad. OMG - that's HIS website? Is someone maintaining that, or saved on the way back machine? Man, I'd hate to see that go away, there's some interesting stuff there. so disappointing how many information black holes there are in 2nd gen console history. We know so much about Yokoi the designer of the NES controller we probably know what kind of toilet paper he used, while people like Dave Chandler fade to obscurity.
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16 minutes ago, mr_me said:
https://papaintellivision.com/usp4246452.php
Here's a patent related to the controller. Inventor listed as Dave Chandler with a filing date of Jan 5 1979. Work began in 1977 and something was shown privately to the industry in January 1978.
Oh man that is awesome! Thank you so much! Man, not sure I've ever heard of him. It'd be a real shame if he's no longer around and was never interviewed.
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I think today's retrogamers largely are unaware or disinterested in how big a thing it was when Intellivision introduced it's controller. Are there any resources about it's creation and creator? Does anyone know why the controller for the Bandai Super Vision 8000 which came out the same year) has identical controllers? Bandai later was the JP distributor for the INTV - did they copy INTV's controller? Or vice versa?
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On 7/3/2021 at 8:13 PM, WolfAmongWolves said:
Thanks for making the video, there was a lot of new info there for me!
You're welcome, thank you for the comment; I knew a lot of people have covered the topic before, so I tried hard to give more historical context, and was really thrilled to find some new, or at least very obscure discoveries. Really nice to hear how much you liked it.
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On 7/13/2021 at 7:38 PM, Keatah said:
https://atariage.com/forums/topic/307533-atari-rgb-light-sixer-repair/
..describes someone's attempt at repairing a light-sixer. The heavy shielding is quite evident.
Thanks for the link/pic, Keatah - while I'd like to be able to compare the two shielding constructs - is it possible that they're the same size but the light sixer's were thinner metal? - but due to the images, I'm inclined to think you may be right.
Whoa, that story of your homebrew combo hardware console blew me away! Please God, tell me you have some pics, I'd LOVE to see that!
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On 7/9/2021 at 6:32 PM, Keatah said:
There's many photos of both heavy and light sixers floating around here on AA.
As a kid, I clearly recall both heavy and light having the same shield configuration. Both being overdone so to speak. Heavy aluminum. Cost-cutting on shield parts wouldn't happen till the 4-switch design came out. 4-switchers and anything later have this thin cheap-ass flimsy metal shield. Not the solid aluminum box.
Well, I'm impressed - I certainly wouldn't have known of such a thing when I was a kid, so you got that on me. I'll definitely look into this more - perhaps you're right, and this is another common misconception. But I'd say that regardless, it's notable that it wasn't just a cost-cutting measure - clearly it was unneeded, so even if the shielding reduction took place with the 4-switch update, it seems likely that the original design was made to err on the side of too much shielding, rather than aim for 'just enough' shielding. I'll look for those pics; if you run across them again, feel free to post a link here or DM me. And thanks for letting me know about this, don't hesitate to let me know if you find other errors.
On 7/9/2021 at 6:53 PM, Keatah said:Loved the spot on the UltraVision console!
Oh, thanks - I really appreciate hearing that. The Ultravision isn't exactly a buzzworthy topic, seeing as even many retro gamers don't even know of it, but it was so crazy I had to include it, it's such a cool weird bit of console/portable history. Glad you liked it, I may do a video just on the UV down the road sometime and spend a little more time on it.
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10 minutes ago, Keatah said:
2:50.. Isn't the heavy sizer and light sixer's shield configuration the same? ..with the weight savings coming from the cheaper plastic & cost cutting there?
Interesting, I've not heard that - if you can point me to a source, I'd like to hear more. I did see several places that cited the RF shielding; it certainly tracked with what I have read about other consoles - the rush to produce consoles in the mid-70s led to a crunch at the government agency that approves RF shielding in a product for consumer release. Some pong consoles were pretty much ruined by the resulting backlog, causing some companies to miss the crucial holiday season for release. This also happened with the RCA Studio II, which was to come out for the '76 holiday season, but due to the testing delay, was released in early '77, where it was DOA (though with the superior Channel F on the market, probably would've been anyway).
So when I read that the heavy sixer had excessive shielding that could be removed on the successive design, it made sense. A console that doesn't pass the shielding test, having to adjust and re-design and resubmit for approval, the delay could cause them miss the holiday season themselves which could be catastrophic. So it makes good business sense to err on the side of putting too much shielding in, rather than too little and risking it. But it's an interesting question, again I'd like to hear more about it.
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On 7/8/2021 at 4:34 AM, carlsson said:
I've got no idea how the 32X works, but if there is no video overlay/bypass functionality from the cartridge port, the best they could do would be an Y cable that takes composite video from both the VIC and the 2600 adapter and perhaps combines those or uses a mechanical switch similar to those TV/game switches before it generates a RF signal if required. Or two separate RF cables that connect in said TV/game switch.
Regarding Protecto, supposedly they had their own Voice Synthesizer for the VIC-20, and possibly other products like 40/80 column cartridges? The later one is similar to a 2600 adapter in that it has its own video chip (usually a 6545 or 6845 CRTC) and its own video output so you either swap cables or run double monitors.
The 32X was utilized by having the video output of the Genesis plug into the 32X, then the 32X had a video output that went to the TV. Perhaps a VIC-20 add-on could've functioned in that manner?
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12 hours ago, mozartpc27 said:
What I am saying is that the very fact that Protecto advertised a VIC 20 adapter that would play 2600 cartridges as something they had for sale suggests to me that some of these units by Cardco were actually produced and DID exist, even if they never got past a small test production run, since Protecto would not have developed and manufactured the product itself, and was a known reseller of dead stock of even small or late-prototype stages, like the C65.
I'll admit - I couldn't find much about Cardco and Protecto - I was glad to share a little context of what they did before their Vic-20 adapter ads, but would've included more. I saw in multiple instances they were deemed vaporware, but I certainly acknowledge anything is possible, we're always making new discoveries when new hardware miraculously surfaces. And that would be freaking cool.
But my question would be, and maybe you two know - did Protecto EVER sell any of their own products at any time? Or is it known that they never did and ONLY sold hardware they bought out to resell? Because I can imagine a company doing both, even if they don't do much in-house; for example, Zircon bought out the stock of the discontinued Fairchild Channel F in 1979, just like Protecto was known for doing; however, they released carts that were not only old stock, but some new ones, and they also redesigned the controller, and sold the new design not only to Fairchild customers but also as an Atari 3rd party controller.
11 hours ago, carlsson said:Essentially this adapter would be a complete 2600, possibly minus the joystick input. The VIC-I chip doesn't even have the ability to overlay external video, so it would need its own RF output. Like I wrote in that previous thread, perhaps by early 1983 it still seemed like a feasible and lucrative product but the market changed a lot in the spring and early summer of 1983 so if any product at all came out, it must've been prototypes only. By the fall of 1983, both the VIC-20 and the 2600 were on their way out of the market, so designing a similar product at a later time sounds like a waste of resources.
Someone commented on my video that it couldn't work because of the video signal, but that didn't seem to make sense to me; the Sega 32X was able to get around that issue.
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20 hours ago, mozartpc27 said:
Awesome video my friend. I left you a comment on the page itself which I could repeat here if necessary. Suffice it to say I love these deep dives into the real story type things as a genre, and now combined with one of my favorite topics, old hardware.
Bravo!
Thank you very much, mozartpc27, really cool to hear your comments - comments like that are why I made it! Really appreciate your thoughts and support; especially as a small channel, just fricking awesome. And always nice to meet a fellow enthusiast of this old hardware
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On 9/6/2017 at 8:57 AM, Dutchman2000 said:On 9/6/2017 at 8:02 AM, Bill Loguidice said:
Dutchman2000 and Bill - just wanted to let you know I recently did a documentary on the history of alternate Atari VCS console designs, clones, and adapters - and included comments/posts from both of you to add and explain this new strange twist to the "my console plays your games" saga between Atari and Coleco. Hope you guys like the work.
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23 hours ago, AtariLeaf said:
Just as an aside I was one of the "called out" YouTubers and I can confirm I was contacted first about being in the video and I was fine with it. If I was wrong I was wrong and correction is natural and necessary.
I'm not going to cling to a narrative I know is false. What am I, mainstream media? ?
Hey, thank you AtariLeaf - I really appreciate your understanding, and your general stance on corrections. I have actually already had to issue a correction to my video, and I can tell you that I hate it, I hate when I work on something so long, and a detail slips through the cracks - but it's there.
But more importantly, I appreciate you realizing I wasn't "coming after you". Some of the clips I used were BIG youtubers; but some were small youtubers, and that was actually what worried me the most, I am not going to have any impact on those big channels, but I was worried about the smaller channel - I also am a smaller channel, so I can imagine it, and I'm just thankful you saw I wasn't trying to troll you or anything.
I'm also glad you replied here because now I finally know the story behind your NAME - dude, I'm from MN - I tell every Canadian I meet in California that "I consider myself an honorary Canadian" because in MN we share so much culture with Canada, and I've made it north of the border a few times. I live in southern Cal now, but I STILL have people pick up on my accent which I've always said is a shared Canadian thing. Anyways, thanks, much appreciated, I'm really glad my vid didn't upset you
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19 hours ago, AtariLeaf said:
Just as an aside I was one of the "called out" YouTubers and I can confirm I was contacted first about being in the video and I was fine with it. If I was wrong I was wrong and correction is natural and necessary.
I'm not going to cling to a narrative I know is false. What am I, mainstream media? ?
Hey, AtariLeaf - I really appreciate you speaking up and your comments. You were one of the channels smaller than me, and I was hoping you wouldn't think I was a bigger channel trying to pile-on to you (though it's bizarre for me to realize I'm a 'bigger channel' at all). When I got responses from you and another of the small channels, it really made me feel better, both of you were very understanding and did not take it personally, I really appreciate your understanding, and also that it wasn't an attack on you.
And I'm also glad you replied here - now I finally know the origin of your name - raised in MN but now living in CA, I always tell Canadians that as a Minnesotan, I'm an honorary Canadian, as we share so much in culture, and I've spent several trips up across the border. Thank you again, appreciate your support.
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Interton VC 4000
in Classic Console Discussion
Posted
@CatPix @Marc Oberhäuser @carlsson
Apologies for the tag - I've been digging into keypad controller history, and am wondering about Interton's games - did any of them use the keypad in any meaningful way? I've found that the other early keypad controllers, like the APF, were never really utilized for games, except to enter which game mode to play, number of players, and for gambling games to enter dollar amounts for betting and such. I was curious what the Interton did with it. Thanks for any input you have!