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Posts posted by 4cade

  1. On 7/3/2021 at 8:13 PM, WolfAmongWolves said:

    Thanks for making the video, there was a lot of new info there for me!

    You're welcome, thank you for the comment; I knew a lot of people have covered the topic before, so I tried hard to give more historical context, and was really thrilled to find some new, or at least very obscure discoveries. Really nice to hear how much you liked it.

  2. On 7/13/2021 at 7:38 PM, Keatah said:


    ..describes someone's attempt at repairing a light-sixer. The heavy shielding is quite evident.

    Thanks for the link/pic, Keatah - while I'd like to be able to compare the two shielding constructs - is it possible that they're the same size but the light sixer's were thinner metal? - but due to the images, I'm inclined to think you may be right. 


    Whoa, that story of your homebrew combo hardware console blew me away! Please God, tell me you have some pics, I'd LOVE to see that!

  3. On 7/9/2021 at 6:32 PM, Keatah said:

    There's many photos of both heavy and light sixers floating around here on AA.


    As a kid, I clearly recall both heavy and light having the same shield configuration. Both being overdone so to speak. Heavy aluminum. Cost-cutting on shield parts wouldn't happen till the 4-switch design came out. 4-switchers and anything later have this thin cheap-ass flimsy metal shield. Not the solid aluminum box.

    Well, I'm impressed - I certainly wouldn't have known of such a thing when I was a kid, so you got that on me. I'll definitely look into this more - perhaps you're right, and this is another common misconception. But I'd say that regardless, it's notable that it wasn't just a cost-cutting measure - clearly it was unneeded, so even if the shielding reduction took place with the 4-switch update, it seems likely that the original design was made to err on the side of too much shielding, rather than aim for 'just enough' shielding. I'll look for those pics; if you run across them again, feel free to post a link here or DM me. And thanks for letting me know about this, don't hesitate to let me know if you find other errors. 

    On 7/9/2021 at 6:53 PM, Keatah said:

    Loved the spot on the UltraVision console!

    Oh, thanks - I really appreciate hearing that. The Ultravision isn't exactly a buzzworthy topic, seeing as even many retro gamers don't even know of it, but it was so crazy I had to include it, it's such a cool weird bit of console/portable history. Glad you liked it, I may do a video just on the UV down the road sometime and spend a little more time on it. 

  4. 10 minutes ago, Keatah said:

    2:50.. Isn't the heavy sizer and light sixer's shield configuration the same? ..with the weight savings coming from the cheaper plastic & cost cutting there?


    Interesting, I've not heard that - if you can point me to a source, I'd like to hear more. I did see several places that cited the RF shielding; it certainly tracked with what I have read about other consoles - the rush to produce consoles in the mid-70s led to a crunch at the government agency that approves RF shielding in a product for consumer release. Some pong consoles were pretty much ruined by the resulting backlog, causing some companies to miss the crucial holiday season for release. This also happened with the RCA Studio II, which was to come out for the '76 holiday season, but due to the testing delay, was released in early '77, where it was DOA (though with the superior Channel F on the market, probably would've been anyway).


    So when I read that the heavy sixer had excessive shielding that could be removed on the successive design, it made sense. A console that doesn't pass the shielding test, having to adjust and re-design and resubmit for approval, the delay could cause them miss the holiday season themselves which could be catastrophic. So it makes good business sense to err on the side of putting too much shielding in, rather than too little and risking it. But it's an interesting question, again I'd like to hear more about it.

  5. On 7/8/2021 at 4:34 AM, carlsson said:

    I've got no idea how the 32X works, but if there is no video overlay/bypass functionality from the cartridge port, the best they could do would be an Y cable that takes composite video from both the VIC and the 2600 adapter and perhaps combines those or uses a mechanical switch similar to those TV/game switches before it generates a RF signal if required. Or two separate RF cables that connect in said TV/game switch.


    Regarding Protecto, supposedly they had their own Voice Synthesizer for the VIC-20, and possibly other products like 40/80 column cartridges? The later one is similar to a 2600 adapter in that it has its own video chip (usually a 6545 or 6845 CRTC) and its own video output so you either swap cables or run double monitors.



    The 32X was utilized by having the video output of the Genesis plug into the 32X, then the 32X had a video output that went to the TV. Perhaps a VIC-20 add-on could've functioned in that manner?

  6. 12 hours ago, mozartpc27 said:

    What I am saying is that the very fact that Protecto advertised a VIC 20 adapter that would play 2600 cartridges as something they had for sale suggests to me that some of these units by Cardco were actually produced and DID exist, even if they never got past a small test production run, since Protecto would not have developed and manufactured the product itself, and was a known reseller of dead stock of even small or late-prototype stages, like the C65.

    I'll admit - I couldn't find much about Cardco and Protecto - I was glad to share a little context of what they did before their Vic-20 adapter ads, but would've included more. I saw in multiple instances they were deemed vaporware, but I certainly acknowledge anything is possible, we're always making new discoveries when new hardware miraculously surfaces. And that would be freaking cool. 


    But my question would be, and maybe you two know - did Protecto EVER sell any of their own products at any time? Or is it known that they never did and ONLY sold hardware they bought out to resell? Because I can imagine a company doing both, even if they don't do much in-house; for example, Zircon bought out the stock of the discontinued Fairchild Channel F in 1979, just like Protecto was known for doing; however, they released carts that were not only old stock, but some new ones, and they also redesigned the controller, and sold the new design not only to Fairchild customers but also as an Atari 3rd party controller. 


    11 hours ago, carlsson said:

    Essentially this adapter would be a complete 2600, possibly minus the joystick input. The VIC-I chip doesn't even have the ability to overlay external video, so it would need its own RF output. Like I wrote in that previous thread, perhaps by early 1983 it still seemed like a feasible and lucrative product but the market changed a lot in the spring and early summer of 1983 so if any product at all came out, it must've been prototypes only. By the fall of 1983, both the VIC-20 and the 2600 were on their way out of the market, so designing a similar product at a later time sounds like a waste of resources.

    Someone commented on my video that it couldn't work because of the video signal, but that didn't seem to make sense to me; the Sega 32X was able to get around that issue. 

  7. 20 hours ago, mozartpc27 said:

    Awesome video my friend.  I left you a comment on the page itself which I could repeat here if necessary.  Suffice it to say I love these deep dives into the real story type things as a genre, and now combined with one of my favorite topics, old hardware.



    Thank you very much, mozartpc27, really cool to hear your comments - comments like that are why I made it! Really appreciate your thoughts and support; especially as a small channel, just fricking awesome. And always nice to meet a fellow enthusiast of this old hardware

  8. On 9/6/2017 at 8:57 AM, Dutchman2000 said:



    On 9/6/2017 at 8:02 AM, Bill Loguidice said:


    Dutchman2000 and Bill - just wanted to let you know I recently did a documentary on the history of alternate Atari VCS console designs, clones, and adapters - and included comments/posts from both of you to add and explain this new strange twist to the "my console plays your games" saga between Atari and Coleco. Hope you guys like the work. 


    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

  9. 23 hours ago, AtariLeaf said:

    Just as an aside I was one of the "called out" YouTubers and I can confirm I was contacted first about being in the video and I was fine with it. If I was wrong I was wrong and correction is natural and necessary. 


    I'm not going to cling to a narrative I know is false. What am I, mainstream media? 🤣

    Hey, thank you AtariLeaf - I really appreciate your understanding, and your general stance on corrections. I have actually already had to issue a correction to my video, and I can tell you that I hate it, I hate when I work on something so long, and a detail slips through the cracks - but it's there. 


    But more importantly, I appreciate you realizing I wasn't "coming after you". Some of the clips I used were BIG youtubers; but some were small youtubers, and that was actually what worried me the most, I am not going to have any impact on those big channels, but I was worried about the smaller channel - I also am a smaller channel, so I can imagine it, and I'm just thankful you saw I wasn't trying to troll you or anything. 


    I'm also glad you replied here because now I finally know the story behind your NAME - dude, I'm from MN - I tell every Canadian I meet in California that "I consider myself an honorary Canadian" because in MN we share so much culture with Canada, and I've made it north of the border a few times. I live in southern Cal now, but I STILL have people pick up on my accent which I've always said is a shared Canadian thing. Anyways, thanks, much appreciated, I'm really glad my vid didn't upset you

  10. 19 hours ago, AtariLeaf said:

    Just as an aside I was one of the "called out" YouTubers and I can confirm I was contacted first about being in the video and I was fine with it. If I was wrong I was wrong and correction is natural and necessary. 


    I'm not going to cling to a narrative I know is false. What am I, mainstream media? 🤣

    Hey, AtariLeaf - I really appreciate you speaking up and your comments. You were one of the channels smaller than me, and I was hoping you wouldn't think I was a bigger channel trying to pile-on to you (though it's bizarre for me to realize I'm a 'bigger channel' at all). When I got responses from you and another of the small channels, it really made me feel better, both of you were very understanding and did not take it personally, I really appreciate your understanding, and also that it wasn't an attack on you. 


    And I'm also glad you replied here - now I finally know the origin of your name - raised in MN but now living in CA, I always tell Canadians that as a Minnesotan, I'm an honorary Canadian, as we share so much in culture, and I've spent several trips up across the border. Thank you again, appreciate your support.

    • Like 2

  11. 13 hours ago, rietveld said:

    I liked the quick look at the Intellivision system changer, but it might just be because i have one


    5 hours ago, rietveld said:

    I dont know if i should fell good or bad that my channel was not sampled.  i have a few videos of my atari expansion modules for the Colecovision and Intellivision as well as the Gemini and Sears knockoffs.


    Here is my INTV atari setup

    Best way to play Atari 2600 https://imgur.com/gallery/FVmf07x


    Here is my Colecovision/Adam atari setup

    Playing Atari 2600 games on the Colecovision Adam using the UnoCart 2600 https://imgur.com/gallery/MeBKUMB



    Hey, not only do you have a pretty sweet set-up, I found your channel on YT and was kinda blown away to see GALAGA! being played on the PET computer! I assume that's modern homebrew? Dude, give me more info! As for the Intellivision System Changer - sorry I didn't see yours but I was happy to include that, as it was a small but critical element of the history of the time. It really added to the anger at the time of the lack of the 5200 adapter.

  12. 12 hours ago, youki said:

    Interesting video. i liked a lot the part on the Ultra-vision.    I did not like the part on the other youtubers also.


    But i think few consoles compatible VCS are missing in your list :)   Or may be you cover only the US market?




    Glad you liked it, youki. I was really jazzed to do the Ultravision section, and I think that broke some news as well, as I wasn't able to find any other sources that linked it to the CreatiVision. And you are certainly correct, there are consoles missing from the list - my original idea was about how many of these options were in competition with each other - that the same consumer could've bought so many VCS options in different sizes, shapes, brands and such. Since some of these variations likely didn't make it out of the US, I focused on that market; for example, the Intellivision System Changer was cancelled so quickly, I doubt it had much or any international presence. Also, as it's not an area I've explored much, it felt like another huge chunk of research an running time on an already long video - and it seemed to me that international variations was a big enough topic to possibly be it's own video down the road. 


    As for the youtubers, as I said to TPR above, I respect your thoughts and appreciate the feedback, even if negative. I'll just make two points - first, to reiterate what I said - it was not a call-out. I admitted the same thing myself, so I wasn't calling them out anymore than I was myself; I encouraged viewers to check them out. I'll add that I'm subscribed to all of them - I've been watching Gaming Historian for years and hardly find this one error to be a blemish on his body of work. Everyone makes mistakes - I've already posted a correction to the pinned comment of my video (I mistakenly said the 7800 came out in 1987 when it came out in 1986). But I'll add that more importantly, it was relevant to the story as it illustrates just how common the misconception was. I'd seen the "Atari was made from off the shelf parts" long ago and like many others, took it for granted and mistakenly believed it for years. But if that doesn't sway you, no problem - sorry if it detracted from the video for you.


    And thanks for your positive comments, as well as the question on international variations - during my research, I stumbled on a 2600 from Ireland and was surprised to see it was the 2800/Video Arcade II design, so yeah, looking at the int'l variants could be cool. But with the amount of countries/regions to research, it seems like it'd be a little tough to do.

  13. 17 hours ago, NIAD said:

    Im not so sure that it is “common belief” seeing as it is widely known and has been reported on both BITD and more currently that Coleco and Atari settled instead of going thru a long and protracted legal battle. Seems more like just some misinformed information being passed on by those that you detail.

    Well, you raise a valid point - I don't have a source for that, and don't know of any way to find it in a statistical sense. So, this was based off of my personal experience of sources I found, and gamers I've talked to (in person, in forums like this, and in FB groups), and how commonly I heard the misconception. I'm not saying no one knew the truth - even Wikipedia is technically correct - they mention the TIA chip, and that Atari/Coleco settled, and Coleco became a licensee - but they omit the context of Coleco claiming it was off the shelf parts, and that the TIA was not off the shelf but custom-designed. One more note - I've posted this in some FB groups, and I've had two replies of "that's what Atari gets for using of the shelf parts" (I'm assuming they just commented and hadn't watched the video). But I'm sure to more knowledgeable retro gamers, it may seem like old news.

    • Like 2

  14. 2 minutes ago, TPR said:

    Yep. It's just my opinion.  It turned me off from your videos.  Just being honest.  You didn't get a sub out of me.  But I'm just one person so hopefully that won't matter too much in the grand scheme of things.  

    Fair enough, TPR - I appreciate you giving critical feedback without attacking me personally, so I do appreciate your thoughts; sorry it didn't live up to your expectations, maybe I'll be able to earn that 'sub' another time.

  15. 1 hour ago, TPR said:

    I thought the video was pretty well done, but I have to be honest, I actually stopped watching after the part where they "called out" the other YouTubers. I get the part about debunking a myth, and I for one appreciated that completely, but there was really no reason to call out those other content creators as I'm sure they weren't spreading that information on purpose, and including those clips didn't actually add anything to the video other than making the creator look kind of obnoxious. If I was one of those other content creators that had their footage used (I'm assuming) without permission in this video, I would consider giving a copyright strike to take that down or have the guy re-edit the video without those clips.  


    It's a shame, because I actually really liked the video up until that part.

    Thanks for giving it a chance, and I'm sorry you feel that way. After their clips, I went out of my way to say that I wasn't attacking their channels - that I believed the same thing, and that I recommended people checking out their channels and provided links to do so in the description and pinned comment. Also, I reached out to all of them to make them aware of the video and that it wasn't intended as an attack on their work. I thought that would be obvious, I mean one of them is Norm, the Gaming Historian - the dean of YT video game history docs. So far, three of the youtubers in question have responded to me, all three of them positively. Still, you're entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for sharing it. However, the clips I used were short and clearly qualify for Fair Use copyright exception, so a copyright strike would be a violation of youtubes TOS. But again, thanks for giving it a chance.

  16. It was one of the most audacious moves in video game history - when Coleco commandeered Atari's massive game library, giving the already attractive console an even stronger position in the marketplace, challenging the very concept of "console exclusive games". The common belief is that in the ensuing legal battle, Coleco won in court, due to the Atari VCS being built from standard "off the shelf" parts, and thus there was nothing to infringe upon. However, it's a misconception that isn't true. In this video, I tried to correct the record regarding the myth, and to tell the story of Coleco's multiple variations on Atari hardware. 



    • Like 3

  17. When I was an Atari kid in the early 80s - I was shocked when my neighbor showed me his ColecoVision Expansion Module. It was a challenge to the concept of console-exclusive games. And as we all know, several other clones and adapters would follow, even Atari's own and the 7800 backwards compatibility, not to mention Atari's own redesigns like the Video Arcade II and Jr. I put together a video trying to tell that story more comprehensively, including a debunking of the myth that Coleco won their lawsuit against Atari, due to the VCS being "made from off the shelf parts" - a myth that's still a common misconception today. 



    • Like 2

  18. I was researching through some old video game mags and found this pic in the March 1979 issue of Interface Age - the admin of the APF Facebook group said it's probably a prototype, but no one seems to have seen this before. Sorry for the blurry pic, if anyone has a better copy of that issue, please post it!


    No photo description available.

    • Like 3

  19. On 3/22/2017 at 6:06 PM, save2600 said:

    The *one* thing Atari freely gave up and didn't enforce by way of litigation. How ironic. And it's not just Superman III… plenty of other movies, TV shows, documentaries, radio spots, etc. use Atari's Pac-Man sounds for various things. Coleco's Donkey Kong sounds too. :lol:

    Actually, Atari was still owned by Warner Bros. at the time and so that's probably why they used it/got it for free

  20. Hey, I've been searching online but can't seem to find release dates for the games. I found one source with dates which I've linked below, but they list all games as October, 78 - the launch of the console. And I assume it's unlikely that they had their entire library of all 12 games available at launch - that would certainly be a notable, never-discussed, 'first' in gaming history if that were true. But I guess it's safe to assume they all came out within a year? Perhaps as the computer add-on was where they turned their focus? Or maybe a couple were released in early days of the Imagination Machine?



  21. On 11/15/2018 at 6:10 PM, NE146 said:

    Oh my first "favorite" arcade game was definitely Space Invaders. But prior to that.. I just recall playing the various B&W games like Sea Wolf, or Pong, or Electromechanical games. I was too young to play them consistently.. it was only with my parents and we did it all together or something. The one that sticks out in my mind though is Killer Shark.. which (thankfully) was shown in the movie Jaws so I can remember the name and reference it. :lol: I just remember my dad holding me up and trying to shoot the shark and the red blood when you shot it. I guess that memory would make it count as a 1st fav. :P



    Yeah! When I was probably 7, I started going to the local arcade at the shopping center my mom worked at, probably 79 or 80, maybe earlier, but they had a few old EM games there and I freaking loved Killer Shark, it was actually kind of graphic/violent for me, but it's one of the first games I remember after cashing in a dollar of quarters, it being a primary one to check out and see if anyone is playing, and was one I played everytime I went. Like you, I also wasn't tall enough, the arcade had a few step stools, but sometimes they were all being used and one time I stupidly dropped a quarter without realizing there was no step stool; I told a stranger passing by what happened and he could have my free game and he offered to pick me up, holding me while I played. Yeah, that got awkward, but I look back and think "could have gone WORSE!" Ah, the 70s, it was a different time...

    • Like 1

  22. On 2/3/2020 at 1:50 PM, flip said:

    Is that not what @ekeefe posted about? The cartridge runs in Emma 02 (cart is called computer.st2) if you want to see it "action", but it's fairly cumbersome to use, having to type is code via the keypads, byte by byte and without a way to save it. You don't need extra RAM, but you only have about 200 bytes to play with...



    Do we know what year the programming cart was created? I followed the threads to those pics/scans ekeefe posted of the cart and instructions but couldn't find more info.

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