[FPGA Based Videogame System]

 

Same here. A USB CD-ROM port would do many things. First off it would give people the option to add a Sega CD very CHEAPLY. You can get a USB CD/DVD reader for about $20. Compare that to the cost of an authentic Sega CD unit which starts around $50 and is 25 years old. This is a *mechanical* device. Unlike solid state devices such as carts, CD drives fail at a MUCH higher rate because they have moving parts.

 

In other words, adding USB CD Drive capability is practically necessary to preserve the possibility of using authentic discs as Sega CD units fall further into disrepair. It also opens up some nice aftermarket possibilities such as faster load times and buffering to prevent things like audio skipping or pausing while a track is restarted, etc.

 

I do think any Sega Genesis clone should include a pin-compatible expansion port for anyone who DOES have a working Sega CD and wants to go completely old-school on it, but IMO leaving out the possibility of hooking up a cheap USB CD reader would be a huge missed opportunity...

 

 

The challenge with the Sega CD is that it's more than just a drive attachment like the Turbo CD. It has its own processors that extend the capabilities of the Genesis. Therefore, it would require an FPGA solution of its own, meaning it can't simply be replaced by a cheap USB CD-ROM drive.

 

Here's my ideal scenario:

 

1. A Genesis FPGA console to serve as the core, with an SD card slot (just like the Nt Mini and Super Nt) and expansion port

2. A Sega CD FPGA that connects to the expansion port, and has its own USB port

 

If the Sega CD FPGA could read the Genesis FPGA SD card slot through the expansion port, there would be no need to include one in the Sega CD FPGA, reducing costs. It could use the Genesis FPGA SD card for both firmware updates and loading bin/cue rips of Sega CDs. The USB port on the Sega CD FPGA would allow the connection of a standard CD-ROM drive for reading actual Sega CD discs, and perhaps ripping them to SD.

 

Like the SSDS3 at its $300 USD price point, the Sega CD FPGA could be a pricier accessory for enthusiasts that costs more than the Genesis FPGA (just like the original Sega CD cost more than the Genesis) since it will sell in lower quantities.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

The iPhone comparison was talking about how useful and essential it is for many devices to operate without ever requiring a PC. For years you could only activate an iPhone from a PC. You could only back it up from a PC. You could only put music on it from a PC. If you don’t think that was holding it back, you’re crazy!

Honestly, no, I don't think iPhone sales or popularity were held back in any meaningful way by this, but I take your point It's certainly more convenient to set up your phone without requiring a computer.

 

I agree that a USB port to connect an external drive for playback and potentially ripping straight to SD would be ideal in a Sega CD FPGA.

 

Since I thoroughly enjoy many titles in the Sega CD library, a Genesis FPGA without Sega CD compatibility of some sort wouldn't be very attractive because I'd still need to keep my Model 1 Genesis anyway just to play those games. I know that's a minority opinion, however. I'm sure a Genesis FPGA console would be successful even without Sega CD compatibility.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

I think that there is value in eliminating the PC from the process of getting actual discs onto the ODE or FPGA console’s storage. iPhones no longer need iTunes to do anything and that was an important part of improving the product. Heck, I use a Bung Multi Xchanger to load N64 ROMs off CD from a PSX to the V64jr 512 just so I don’t have to maintain a PC with a compatible parallel port. For OPL and HD Loader, ripping from disc is FAR more convenient than unscrewing the network adapter, extracting the HDD (likely mounted in a make-shift way), connecting it to a PC, finding a way to power it, and copying the ISOs with special software. Heck, even FTP is a painful option (doesn’t work with the non-Network HDD-only adapters they make these days). I have a “phat” PS2 kiosk and getting the HDD out to change games is a nightmare. Even accessing the disc drive or USB port is a pain. I guess I can find a way to connect a USB thumb drive externally but I’d still love to be able to change games on a whim when someone wants to play something from my shelf that isn’t on the PS2 and hasn’t been ripped to my PC.

 

I'm not really following the iPhone comparison since we're talking about transferring owned physical media to an SD card, but still, there's nothing I see in those other approaches that sounds as simple as putting a CD in a drive, ripping it, and moving it to the SD card. Maybe the external approach you suggested makes sense though. Regardless, I only put it in those terms to be polite; you and I both know hardly anyone will be filling those SD cards with CDs they ripped from their own collection. That's why I think any kind of a drive in the product itself increases costs, decreases longevity, and won't be used by most people.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

That's not that bad assuming it's comparable to the Sony PVMs of yore. $2200 is a lot better than priceless and unattainable.

 

At that price, I'd expect something closer to a BVM. You can get a really clean 19"-20" PVM for far less than $2200.

 

I have a PVM-20L5, and I have to say that after getting the settings dialed in on my Nt Mini and Super Nt, I have no desire to go back to my CRT. I still have my Genesis/Sega CD and SuperGrafx hooked up to it because my plasma doesn't play nice with the OSSC, but if they're ever replaced by FPGA versions, I'd have no problem dropping the tube (figuratively).

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

I'm aware the connectors are the same, I was talking about size the entire time, that is why I mentioned the extender. Also if a full fpga sega cd replacement gets made that shouldn't be an issue because they will hopefully keep in mind the console that has to sit on top of it and size the replacement unit accordingly. It would be pretty crazy to intentionally design it not to sit the console properly on top of it.

 

Gotcha, so just a cosmetic preference. I agree that there's no need to make a Genesis FPGA that's the size of the Model 1 Genesis just so it can sit on top of a Model 1 Sega CD.

 

I don't know if you've seen the SSDS3, but it's rather small. A Genesis FPGA/Sega CD FPGA pairing wouldn't necessarily need to be stacked. They could probably fit comfortably side by side, although I will say that having a stacked setup would definitely appeal more to my sense of nostalgia. I just love the look of the Model 1 units stacked.

 

My main point is that preserving the CD-ROM drive isn't necessary. Disc collectors could rip their games to bin/cue on an SD card and play the games directly from there. The SSDS3 is absolutely brilliant at this; load times are much faster than the original hardware and the delays you normally hear on CD games when the music track changes are gone.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

Thanks for the amazing support! Also if I may make a suggestion about the Genesis console: design it to work with the Sega CD Model 2. They tend to be operational longer as they don't have any bands to worry about breaking and also if someone ever does make a Sega CD ODE I can't picture them finding any way to set it up in the Model 1.

 

Of course I'm currently using the extender on mine so I guess it really isn't that big of an issue but I'd sure like it to look a little better.

 

 

There's no reason any Genesis FPGA console has to be one or the other. They can make it small like an MD2 and it would still work with a Model 1 Sega CD because the connectors are the same; it would just look weird.

 

Besides, I think the Sega CD ODE people really want is more along the lines of the Super SD System 3 — a complete FPGA hardware replacement with SD card reader — rather than a hack that relies on modifying increasingly scarce original hardware.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

Not that there would really be any need to use an Everdrive on a Mini, but just throwing that out there for the sake of accuracy.

 

Save states.

 

Edit: Beaten by cacophony.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

Holy shit. I need to apologise to a few people here as I've just realised the scanlines look much better if I turn interpolation on. They're shifted up a few pixels with interpolation turned off, which is bizarre and results in the issues present in my image above. But eh, it's significantly better now anyway. Sorry all.

 

Scanline strength/size would be ideal as a slider in the future though. That and the colours being fixed would mean I can happily keep my SFC as a CRT only device, and use the SNT exclusively on my HDTV. Absolutely love the console aside from the 0-255 colour issue.

 

Is your display 1080p or 4k? If it's 1080p and you're running the Super Nt at 1080p60 5x vertical, requiring interpolation to get even scanlines is a sure sign you don't have 1:1 pixel mapping enabled on your display.

 

It would be much easier to help people with display issues if everyone noted what display they were using and what settings.

 

The core settings that 1080p display owners should be using if they want clean scanlines are:

 

Resolution: 1080p

Height: 5x (1200)

Scaler: No scaler, vertical interpolation disabled

Scanlines: Normal or hybrid (whichever you prefer, depth to taste)

 

AND: Display set to 1:1 pixel mapping (zero overscan), which as others have said varies depending on your display manufacturer (1:1, Just, Full, etc.)

 

Horizontal dimensions can be whatever you prefer, with horizontal interpolation disabled if it's an integer multiplier (5x or 6x) because it's not necessary. Tweak vertical position also if you like; I adjusted mine to 45 because it clips a bit more on the bottom than the top and lines up the scanlines so that they fall right at the top and bottom of my display.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

I'm now trying settings slightly different from my previous recommendation:

 

Resolution: 1080p60

Width: 6x (1536)

Height: 5x (1200)

Vertical position: 45

Scaling: No scaling, both horizontal and vertical interpolation disabled

Scanlines: Hybrid, depth 30

 

Again, this is on a 1080p display set to no overscan (1:1 pixel mapping). This provides an image that's super sharp because it's an integer multiplier in both directions and interpolation is disabled entirely. It's less of a stretch than 1600 horizontal, which might make it more palatable to those who consider 4:3 "incorrect", but don't like the interpolation required at 1462 ("4:3 for 16:9 displays"). There are 4 "scanlines" cropped at the top and 5 at the bottom, which cuts off nothing meaningful in any game I've tested.

 

I find this to be a great setting for those who want a sharp image that fills as much screen real estate as possible without looking stretchy. I'd take a pic, but the only camera I have is my iPhone and it does a lousy job at capturing plasma cells :/

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

@Kevtris

 

A question form your interview on RetroRGB

 

You mentioned you’ve learned some secrets about Hybrid Scanlines. Is this something that can be implemented in the Nt mini? Also gamma correction?

 

Did kevtris ever respond to this? I searched and couldn't find a post, sorry.

 

The only way to get scanlines on the Nt Mini as sharp as the hybrid scanlines on the Super Nt on my 1080p display is to run a vertical 4x multiplier in 1080p60 output with the display set to no overscan. Looks great, but leaves significant empty space top and bottom. Being able to use 5x vertical like the Super Nt would be awesome.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

Dunno, the 68K is probably the worst part. Other than that, I don't think it's as complex as the SNES was but I am sure it has lots of quirks and weird things too. I have done FM before and video so I don't think it will be too terrible or out of that out of the ordinary. The worse part is people wouldn't like if it didn't run sega CD or the 32x, which it most likely wouldn't do. It'd be stock genesis only. That's not to say it wouldn't have expansion for the cd, but it definitely would never support the 32X because it'd need to output analog RGB, then re-capture analog RGB from the 32x for its video overlay. So I suspect the bitching would be epic if I didn't support those things. I could be wrong and it has happened before :-)

 

Count me in for a Genesis FPGA console with an expansion port that's compatible with a real Sega CD. And who knows, the SSDS3 has me wondering if we might see a Sega CD FPGA/ODE someday. There seems to be support for the idea and they'd make quite the pair.

 

Regardless, I'm enjoying the Nt Mini and Super Nt and can't wait to see what your next project is.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

I don't own a Super NT yet so I'm going by HD youtube videos, but my NT Mini doesn't show shimmering at 5x.

 

Yup, 5x is an exact multiple, and if you're mapping it 1:1 on your display, you'll get no shimmering. I also have a Mini and that's the setting I use (5x width/4x height).

 

You can use the same setting on the Super Nt or take advantage of interpolation to go a bit bigger. I'm picky about image quality and I'm not bothered by horizontal interpolation; it's clean.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

No, that isn't always the case. My RetroUSB AVS looks fantastic on my 1080p Panasonic Plasma. Also, the input lag is low enough for me to beat Mike Tyson in Punch Out.

 

Scanlines on or off? I didn't mention it in my post, but I was referring specifically to scanlines. With scanlines turned off, yeah, you can scale 720p to 1080p and it doesn't look bad at all.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

Am I the only one that thinks interpolation makes things too blurry to be worth using?

 

It does cause a bit of blurring, but turning it off when scaling to anything other than exact multiples of the original signal results in background shimmering while scrolling, so pick your poison.

 

As the settings I and others have recommended suggest, the best balance is probably an exact multiple in the vertical dimension with interpolation turned off and whatever size you prefer horizontally with interpolation turned on. You get a pretty sharp image with no shimmering. Or do 1:1 pixel mapping and turn it all off.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

This is not true from my experience. I have found the AVS (which only does 720p) looks fabulous on my ultra low latency 1080p ASUS Monitor with 3x height and 4x width integer scale with 50% scanlines. It really depends on the quality of the scalar if your tv will look good or not. Also if your TV set is overscanning or molesting the signal in other ways, it can look worse.

 

Does the image fill the screen or do you have it set to 1:1 pixel mapping? If it's the latter, then I can see the scanlines coming out great, but if the display is scaling 720p to 1080p, I'm having a tough time imagining those scanlines being the same height from top to bottom. If the scaler is that good, then I'm impressed, especially for a built-in scaler in a PC monitor.

 

My 1080p plasma has fairly decent upscaling, but scanlines are very inconsistent with 720p when set to full screen. Even multiples at native resolution provide the best results.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

 

Do you prefer the look of scanlines in 1080p vs 720p? When I use scanlines on 1080p they never seem to look right and the text gets lines through it. When I use the scanlines on 720 it looks more natural with the scanlines not going through text when using hybrid scanlines. I might just need to mess with it more

 

 

Are you using the settings bikerspade or I recommended? The best way to get clean scanlines on a 1080p display is to use 1080p output and adjust the vertical size so it's an even multiple of 240, with vertical interpolation disabled. You can either have zero overscan (960 vertical with empty space on all sides) or slight overscan (1200 vertical with a few SNES scanlines cropped top and bottom).

 

720p works well on a 4K display because it's an even multiple, but it looks awful on a 1080p display.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

I am using 1462x1200 @ 1080p60; SNES output of 224x256 displayed on a 4:3 display meant 8:7 pixel width:height, so at 5x scale, the width is multiplied by an additional 8/7 (256 x 5 x 8/7 = 1462). Disabled vertical interpolation because it's a clean multiple along the vertical axis.

 

Disabling vertical interpolation definitely provides a marginal increase in sharpness since it's an even multiple. Agree that it's better with it off. I don't know where my brain was on that one

 

I understand the rationale behind accommodating the 8:7 pixel ratio, but in the end, it comes down to personal preference. 1462x1200 is about 1.22:1, while 4:3 displays are slightly wider at about 1.33:1. While it does appear stretched (depending on the game...some compensated, others didn't), 1600x1200 is closer to what you would've seen on an actual 4:3 CRT back in the day. The difference is minor, though.

 

I'm just glad we got something we can tweak rather than being handed a few presets and forced into one compromise or another.

[FPGA Based Videogame System]

For those that enable scanlines on the Super NT, what screen settings do you guys use to achieve the most authentic geometry on a 1080p display? I've seen several different recommendations from Great Hierophant, FirebrandX, MLiG, etc and curious what everyone uses.

 

Be sure to set your display to zero overscan for any of these recommendations. Both options will give you a 4:3 aspect ratio and crisp scanlines.

 

 

The following settings will crop a small amount of pixels at the top and bottom, but I see nothing meaningful lost in any game I've played so far:

 

Resolution: 1080p60

Width: 1600

Height: 1200

Vertical position: 45

Scaler: No scaler, enable both Horizontal and Vertical Interpolation

Scanlines: Hybrid scanlines, set depth to taste (I use 50)

 

 

The following settings provide pixel-perfect output with zero cropping, but you'll have empty space on all sides because the image won't fill the screen vertically:

 

Resolution: 1080p60

Width: 5x (1280)

Height: 4x (960)

Scaler: No scaler, Disable both horizontal and vertical interpolation

Scanlines: Normal scanlines, depth to taste

 

 

It also depends what you consider the "correct" aspect ratio for SNES games. My take is that we played the original console on 4:3 TVs, so even though the SNES's internal aspect ratio is 8:7, a CRT would've stretched it to 4:3 anyway, so 1280x960 provides a perfectly scaled image in a proper aspect ratio.