Revontuli

I removed a "clearscreen" that might have been superfluous - these seem to work on BupSystem, at least on my machine: DragonsCache_8_3_2020a.bas.a78 DragonsCache_8_3_2020a.bas.bin

Quick fix now that I'm back from a break: DragonsCache_8_3_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_8_3_2020.bas.bin Found some inaccuracies when tallying wins/losses/draws in various 2-player modes - bug fixing at this point can be tricky, where a fix in one place introduces bugs in another. If anyone wants to try 2-player modes, even just as a stress test on their own, that could be handy information for me! It's really a crapshoot if the highscores work in BupSystem. The completed ROM worked, then broke, then worked again. One time I literally added a redundant, extra "myTempB = 0" and the attract mode glitch went from broken to fixed. I add code that has nothing to do with the high score code and it still seems to affect how BupSystem treats the high score behavior - even if the code itself does nothing. This could signify nothing or something very, very, sinister - Again, I'm hoping the ROM works on the physical Atari 7800 without such problems. Even just playing the game on an emulator to see if I missed any game specific stuff (like the match winner/loser tallies) is invaluable. I'm planning to get this ready for cartridge *very* soon, so any fixes afterwards will be much trickier to implement

I tried another quick fix, I think this one might work for BupSystem as well as MAME-based emulation. I was extra thorough in clearing the double buffer - while I did so earlier in attract mode, I didn't in the player hiscore mode. There might be some other bugs, but let's see how this build plays: DragonsCache_8_2_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_8_2_2020.bas.bin

D'oh - had to take out some debug stuff - latest builds here: DragonsCache_7_26_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_7_26_2020.bas.bin Most of my changes recently have been important, but involve gameplay bugs and not graphical ones - they're particularly important in 2-player modes, especially over multiple matches. While I did do some adjustments on the assembly code for the high scores, I *think* the code with 6/5 and later is basically the same (the Basic code is identical in the high score section in question). It could be any number of things - ultimately the code is compiled into a ROM image where some section of data could cause issues for the emulator (or hardware, for that matter). I can take another look, but my priorities need to be on the cartridge version - I'm looking to see if there's anything sinister, but debugging possibly obscure graphical bugs on an emulator can take time, and it's been tricky enough working through MAME and not having direct access to hardware. BupSystem is a great emulator, but it sounds like updates for it are on hiatus, and the possible causes for the bug can still be in any number of places. Right now I'm trying to see if glitches like the high-score *do* show up on any physical 7800s. As far as emulators, I've been sticking with MAME-based emulation for now (RetroArch, the Browser-based JS7800, and, when I can, RetroPie) - RetroArch and JS7800 in particular are very easy to get set up. There's been a lot of little behavioral/menu bugs that only show up after multiple matches, that are annoying to track down but even more annoying to find while playing, such as the slow side-to-side movement, or inaccurate match scoring (which I hope is fixed). These are also the kind of bugs I, the programmer, might take hours to find, but other folks can somehow find after 2 minutes of playing, so any playtesting is appreciated

New build - Getting close, hopefully! DragonsCache_7_25_2020.bas.a78 - a78 File DragonsCache_7_25_2020.bas.bin - Binary File Some more bug fixes - mainly having to do with playing multiple games in a row, switch modes, etc. -Certain modes wouldn't count particular endgames as "wins" for a player (such as one player overflowing in Racing Mode). -Restarting a match sometimes made side-to-side movement for a player very slow - I think I know why now (I change side-to-side speed as Score Mode levels increase, and it didn't reset properly), but the bug has popped up in different places, particularly if you switch Game Modes, and is hopefully fixed. The High Scores might still be buggy with certain emulators - MAME A7800 is what I've been using, and it seems to be fine there, but the priority right now is to make sure the game works properly on actual 7800 hardware. Since the lockdown is going on it's been hard to test the 2 player modes properly, but I've had luck using Parsec and playing matches with some friends of mine. If anyone is interested I might do a little post on my experiences combining Parsec's matchmaking service and the RetroArch emulator in order to play this game over the 'net with someone else.

It's wonderful to see the box art finally released to the public! I was taught to pronounce "Cache" as "cash" - it's almost a pun in this context I'm working on some final polishing and bug-hunting, but it feels good to have the print materials for this game largely handled! It's been great to get help from so many folks, be it with art, testing, or getting the word out, as I get game ready for release...

New build: DragonsCache_6_14_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_14_2020.bas.bin This changes the scoring in the 1-Player "Training Mode" to make things a little more fun and strategic. You get one point per "notch" on your power meter. As for that high score/attract mode bug, I can post the code where is seems to be happening (i.e. if I skip it, it doesn't seem to happen) - It involves some combination of clearscreen, savescreen, restorescreen, and doublebuffer on/off. It's hard to point fingers, really, since it could be me, something with 7800Basic, something with BupSystem, or even something with the 7800. I'll try a few more things, but might post the code in this thread for folks to ponder. I also have a few things to try involving the input/framerate stuff, especially in 2 player modes. Thanks, everyone!

Give this version a try (QUICK EDIT: in the first build I posted here, the attract mode bug went from consistent to inconsistent...here's hoping this build update works....) DragonsCache_6_13_2020_B.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_13_2020_B.bas.bin It seems to be something involving me switching from double buffer to single buffer (for the high score mode) and not "house cleaning" the graphics lists/buffers properly. MAME A7800 doesn't seem to mind, but BupSystem does. Hopefully this version works on both (and physical hardware!) First build posted: DragonsCache_6_13_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_13_2020.bas.bin

New build: DragonsCache_6_11_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_11_2020.bas.bin - Binary A few attempts at some bug fixes, cleanup, plus an added "hit" frame for when you're under attack in battle mode. There -might- still be a bug where the left/right controls of the 2nd player aren't very responsive, particularly after a rematch or two. It seemed to come and go between matches. It's something in the game with how I ramp up speed. I tried to fix the bug, but I'm still not 100% sure what causes it. It should show up in emulation, and likely hardware, if it's still present. I realize 2 player games are tricky in right now with the lockdown - I mentioned this earlier, but I was able to get a network game up and running using a combination of Parsec (for the online matchmaking) and Retroarch (for the actual emulation). In my humble opinion, it's worth looking into for those looking to play with a 2nd player remotely with classic games, and only took a little bit of tech wrestling to get functioning One thing to keep in mind is that both players should have their own controllers - keyboard play overlaps with a lot of the Parsec service's hotkeys.

Thank you for the details - did you try the build I uploaded in the last message?

So the game does not prompt you to enter the high score? Does it freeze on the game over (i.e. you can still see the graphics?), or go to black? Oddly, I'm getting everything working fine in MAME, and BupSystem crashing -after- I enter my high score initials.... [EDIT:] A quick stab in the dark, but folks might try this build - I added another "clearscreen" for good measure, and at the very least it seems to work on BupSystem and MAME A7800 for me... DragonsCache_6_7_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_7_2020.bas.bin

New build - incorporates the testing changes (which might be premature, but we'll see how this build works on hardware) I also lengthened the high score board time to 12 seconds - and, as usual, you should be able to "cancel out" of it by pressed the joystick button to return to the main menu. DragonsCache_6_5_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_5_2020.bas.bin Thank you - the BupSystem behavior is troubling, and seems to be directly related to the high score code. I removed the high score code to see if it was directly related to the physical 7800 bugs that folks found, although (hopefully) it looks like the bugs were caused by something else (some graphical buffer code, it seems at the moment). I'm aiming for more tests, even as I try to get the manual and box media ready.

Great - thank you! I'll also welcome further verification from other folks as well... If the problem is what I think it is, it seems like a double buffer mode switching issue that MAME A7800 overlooks. It can get a little confusing when going from double buffer to single and then back, particularly when you need to make sure the display lists are properly cleared or saved. I've said this before, but I'll say it again - thanks to everyone who has tested the game! Even if I had access to an SD-Cart-like peripheral for the 7800, I'd still want other folks playing and looking for issues. Paradoxically, it's often the case that the person who programmed a game is the worst person to find bugs in it. I'll try to get a new build up soon - I'll aim to make the high score board last a little longer, and hope the other fixes I've made stick.

Excellent! I would like to see if the non-scoring modes behave as well. With the “test3” ROM they shouldn’t prompt a high score, but should go directly to the “retry/title” menu.

If that's the case, then it -might- be a case of me know going from double buffer->single buffer->double buffer again properly. I tried adjusting some things, but it's hard to tell if this will work: DragonsCache_6_4_2020_test3.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_4_2020_test3.bas.bin Thanks for testing! If you (or anyone else, the more testers the better) can try this build and let me know how it works. I'm trying to get things ready for a proper cartridge release pretty soon if I can, but ideally I want to stress test this game as much as possible before then!

Another build meant to specifically test something about the menu. THIS IS NOT MEANT FOR A NORMAL GAMEPLAY This always directs you to the high score menu, whether you're in scoring mode or not. WARNING This can really screw up your scores, especially in training mode, where it will give you a near-max score, which shows up as a the power meter! Don't get too attached to the scores on this build, and/or REMOVE ANY SAVE PERIPHERALS for this SPECIFIC build (it shouldn't fry anything, but will give you the "power meter" values on the leaderboard, which are technically waaaay more than someone could possibly get in gameplay). I'm doing this to see if the game still hangs, or if it goes the score screen and then to the retry/title menu. This is not a "fix" of the other test versions. Folks testing the game should try the previous (6_3 and 5_31) builds as well if they want to give me feedback. DragonsCache_6_4_2020_test2.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_4_2020_test2.bas.bin I appreciate folks' help on this - this the primary reason I'm hoping for some kind of SD Cart coming back - it's hard to test otherwise!

In this build I've tried including the high score code, but do not call it directly - I'm curious to see if it has the same behavior as previous builds: DragonsCache_6_3_2020_Test1.bas.a78 DragonsCache_6_3_2020_Test1.bas.bin [EDIT] : Just to make sure, in the older builds (like 5_31), did the high score board and the scoring mode game over/retry menus work properly, even if the battle/training/racing modes did not?

OK - it looks like something is associated with the way I'm either doing the high score system, or how I'm switching around the menus. I'm planning on posting a few builds pretty soon, where I gradually add back in the code I took out, and see if I can narrow down where the problem is. I realize this isn't the most efficient way to debug, but I appreciate the help folks have been giving me - thanks!

Yes! There should be a menu, with Retry/Title (or Rematch/Title in 2 player mode). I'm posting a build with the high score stuff removed. I don't think it has any direct reason to effect things, but it's a bit of a wildcard right now. I'm also looking at game logic, but since it seems to work on emulators, I'm flying blind without some other folks testing. This could take some work - testing is annoying and tricky. It's one reason I can get a 90% of a game working in a few weeks, but it still takes a few months before I feel comfortable with a cartridge build. I'm asking for help on this, if anyone can play a 7800 try and see what happens when you get a game over on any mode, but with Racing and Training mode in particular. Here are the test builds, which have High Scores removed, but should otherwise be the same as the previous build: DragonsCache_5_31_2020_NoScore.bas.a78 DragonsCache_5_31_2020_NoScore.bas.bin Questions I have for anyone testing, on this build, or the previous one: Does the game crash in Training or Racing Modes (both 1 and 2 player)? Does the game -work- in Scoring Modes (both 1 and 2 player)? Less important on this "No Score" build, but does the title screen cycle to the high score board and back the title screen properly? The high scores should show up if the title screen is idle for several seconds (roughly 3-4 color changes on the dragon pillars that frame the screen). Does this occur, or does something else happen at any point?

With some testing it looks like the game is glitching on at least one physical 7800. Does anyone with a physical 7800 have the problem of the game freezing on a game over, particularly after a session in Training or Racing Mode?

If you don't mind, I'll PM you with some more questions - I'd love to track this down and see that the issue is. Does this happen in other modes, or just training? Also, if anyone else can play on a 7800, see if the game freezes when you finish a game in 1-Player training mode...

I don't think I did anything directly - I've mainly been looking at battle mode and adjusting drop speeds. I have been playing with how the title screen transitions to the high score menu, but I think that hasn't been changed since the 5/24 build. The Atari 7800 can’t save scores without some sort of peripheral like the Save Cart or AtariVox, so your scores are gone when you turn off the machine by default. This is common across most consoles, and was a frustration that I remember well into the days of 16 bits... Is this using an emulator (and if so, which one?) or on a physical 7800? I still need to do more testing, especially with 2-player modes, but feedback like this is good and necessary!

A few responses, but first, new build: DragonsCache_5_31_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_5_31_2020.bas.bin I was able to play with some friends online using Parsec. Some network/streaming issues aside, I was able to get some good feedback. Taking what I learned form those games, I'm testing the addition of some graphical effects to the Battle Mode - the dragons flash in color when they're being "attacked" by their opponent when their gem drop rate is momentarily faster. I added in a sound effect for when you get a full meter (or make a match with a full meter to remind you that you can, and probably should, attack!) @TailChao I appreciate your recent help and info in these threads (and awesome work in general)! - let me know if there's anything you might want me to test on my end. Thank you, welcome news as always! I'll try join in the stream tomorrow morning!

As a homebrewer with no good way to test stuff on hardware myself, I’m very interested! Most of my work currently sticks with the “default” no-frills 48K ROM layout. Something like the Concertino sounds like just what I’d need.

New build - Adjusting the level speeds. I also put in some code to adjust the speed if the game detects PAL mode! The music is the obvious part, but the game logic speed should be adjusted as well. DragonsCache_5_30_2020.bas.a78 DragonsCache_5_30_2020.bas.bin It speeds up a little faster, but the "middle speeds" should be a little more distributed, and level 9 isn't as mean. I still need to see how this feels in 2-player battle mode, where "attacking" bumps up the other's players level temporarily to the 5-9 range, depending on the power meter. I might end up doing a parallel set of values. I'm also tempted not to speed up the gems each level-up, but bias the speeds for "smoothness". It would still get progressively faster, but not necessarily every single level. Right now I have gems dropped x-pixels/y-frames, so while the general speed might be slower or faster, some values are a little more jittery. A gem dropping 3 pixels per 2 frames is more choppy than a gem dropping 2 pixels per 1 frame, for instance. There isn't quite the pixel resolution to have all drop rates equally smooth, but I'm curious how playing the game reads with the speeds I currently have. Sweet! I think I saw a headline online, but didn't realize it was also in print! Although I'm not sure about that download address...