ManOfScience

Wow! Over $100 for the cheapest one - and that's just the module without the rest of the joystick! This is another example why I need to make a 3d printable reproduction for myself.

Could anyone with an Apple ][ Joystick and a caliper post some actual dimensions? Would love an actual Apple ][ Joystick (A2M2002), but like other nostalgic devices from my youth, their value has now risen above my budget. Therefore, I am switching to assembling icons of those memorable devices rather than the devices themselves. I am starting to create a 3D Printable model for the A2M2002 Joystick (and will likely do a A2M2001 Paddle too) but I don't have an example to measure. I have lots of photos, so I can probably get a quite accurate reproduction with some basic height and width numbers by extrapolating the rest from the photos. I also *suspect* that the case dimensions were identical between the A2M2002 and the A2M2012. Any help appreciated!

That is very helpful, 0_obeWAN! I appreciate that you share your experience I think I have enough information to start experimenting - once I get my Atari System Restore Image made. I think I can do that as soon as some 16gb usb drives arrive in the mail. Thank you!

Re; Upgrade Objectives and Starting Point: I have been reading the forums and watching youtube videos trying to plan how I will install a M.2 SSD (internally) into my VCS. I have a 2TB SATA Stick and hope to achieve 4 things: 1) expand the internal Storage available to the Stock Atari OS (to stock+500GB), 2) add a PC-Mode Boot manager to select which partition to boot to, 3) create a Windows 10 partition (1TB) , and 4) create a partition for future use (500GB) to add another OS (hopefully Batocera) at a later date. I have other goals that are not listed because they are not interdependent with the above 4. (Like freeing up external USB ports and moving my keyboard/mouse off of 2.4GHz.) The challenges that may not yet be resolved are: a) I think that I need to create a recovery image of the Atari OS partition before I do anything... (I likely need a separate computer that I may not currently have in order to do this), b) there may be no way to get an alternate OS onto the internal M.2 once it is installed - it may need to be done before installing the stick into the VCS, c) there may be no way to format the M.2 stick as an extension of the Atari OS storage without installing it into the VCS, d) there may be no way for the Atari OS to partition only part of the M.2 Stick to be part of the Atari OS, e) once the M.2 Stick has been partitioned to add storage to the Atari OS, re-sizing the partition may mess up the Atari's access to it, f) PC Mode may not be able to point to rEFInd unless it's on an external USB drive (would be unfortunate but tolerable). What I have to work with so far: i) an up-to-date Ubuntu box (that I know next-to-nothing about) that I could use if I need to. ii) another Ryzen box with Batocera installed and a selection of live-boot USB thumb-drives (Windows10, Lubunu, Ubuntu Mate) iii) a M.2 -to- USB 3.1 External SSD drive adapter, iv) the previously mentioned 2TB M.2 SSD (WD Blue 3D NAND 2TB Internal PC SSD - SATA III, M.2 - WDS200T2B0B) - not yet formatted, and v) a spare 1TB external USB 3.1 drive. vi) 2x16GB memory cards (HyperX Impact 2933MHz DDR4 CL17 SODIMM HX429S17IB2K2/32, 32GB kit) My tech background is in electronics design and some microcontroller programming, not with OS's, bootloaders, & drivers and such. The folks in other threads seem to understand this stuff much better than me and may likely advise me to not attempt this at all as a self admitted novice. My approach will be to simply go very slowly and research thoroughly before every step. This is the very reason I bought my VCS - to make it my living room TV computer. Worst case scenario is I have to give up on AtariOS, throw out the motherboard and jam a different motherboard in there - but I doubt it will come to that. Re; Backing up and restoring AtariOS: (a) In a thread called 'Hardware Upgrades, Experiences and Tips', started by justclaws several months and VCS updates ago, he points to a video by RetroAxis on backing up and restoring the AtariOS using a separate OpenSuSe linux box. It will take me some time to decypher all of the terms to map out how to do that, but I think it will be doable with my other Ryzen box and an Ubuntu Live-boot USB thumb drive and backing up to my spare 1TB external USB drive. I don't think I need to use OpenSuSe specifically... unless it has standard tools that Ubuntu is missing? Does anyone know if it will save me headaches to start by making an OpenSuse live-boot USB drive first? Re; Partitioning & Formatting the M.2 Drive: (b, c, d, & e) From reading the discussions between Charles Darwin, 0_obeWAN, & others in the 'Multi Boot Loader for USB/eMMC' thread who seem to know what the heck they are doing, it looks like there is a good multi-boot Bootloader called rEFInd that might work. I have not yet What I know so far: A) the BIOS requires UEFI Boot, and since others have succeeded with it, rEFInd Bootloader must support this (... I think? I don't know what these words really mean.), B) the current BIOS password is 'Atar!C3l3br8te$50Y34r$'. C) My rough-draft order-of-operations assumption is that I'll need to : Does this seem rational? 1st - Install & Format the AtariOS expanded (EXT3 ?) storage partition, 2nd - Remove the M.2 SSD and put it into the USB 3.1 external Drive adapter, 3rd - (If neccessary) re-size the partition to make room for other OSs, 4th - Format a Partition for the UEFI Multi-boot Bootloader, rEFInd, 5th - Format 2 NTFS partitions for Windows 10 Boot and operations, 6th - Format 2 XFS partitions for future OS Boot and operations, 7th - Install Windows to the NTFS Partitions 8th - Somehow "Compose" the rEFInd bootloader for the OSs selected and install it into the Bootloader Partition, 9th - Re-install the M.2 SSD into the internal bay of the VCS. 10th - ? Although I've found lots of references to physically installing the M.2 SSD card, I have not yet found any info on how to format the M.2 internal SSD so that the AtariOS can see it for games storage. Can anyone advise me: - if there is a utility in the AtariOS that recognizes new SSD and offers to format? - if so, will it allow you to format only part of the SSD? and - if not, is it an ext3 file system? & will the AtariOS see it if I format it correctly? Is there a known-good piece of software in a specific OS that will work for all this Formatting and Partitioning work? (is it user-friendly?) Re; Your feedback: I think this summarizes my plan as it stands to date - I don't want to go too far based on false assumptions or mis-information. Can anyone offer any feedback before I get too far along a faulty plan? ANY ADVISE IS GREATLY APPRECIATED!

Sadly, I think you may be right about Google's track record, so yes, they may have cut Stadia's throat before they even launched it... like you said, gamer's are savvy enough to be wary of investing their $ in Stadia games. In honesty, I don't think I would. However; in addition to the storage issue you brought up, the VCS box is simply not a gaming rig - processing/graphics-wise. So, yes, It is definitely streaming-only when it comes to performing as a modern console. Steam, AWS & other infrastructure players may be able to prop it up without Stadia if Atari focusses on that. All of the players in game-streaming seem to be platform agnostic so far (although I've not watched closely). So what it really comes down to is publicity and baiting the general public into game-streaming and associating the VCS with simple, off-the-shelf, pre-set-up streaming. Stadia can fail while the VCS thrives as a Stadia Box if the interface is equally streamlined to use whichever streaming service kills Stadia. BUT; You make same excellent points about emulation and remind me that there is a market for all these 'mini' Flashback-style devices that people buy, use for a week, then shelve away or garage-sale because they are clutter. If VCS can become the Flashback aggregator for all platforms, combine that with Antstream, it could be seen as a real retro-emulator for all platforms if they provide a critical mass of legit-purchase, vetted ROMs in an easy, minimum-clickthrough launcher. AND; You also bring up a good point about the hole in the market for physical platforms for indie games. For gamers, there are store-fronts, but there is no off-the-shelf hardware platform to market those games to the mainstream public. If the VCS can showcase those lower-horsepower indie games it might stay on people's tv-shelves and boost the indie market. They might be able to get away with marketing it as all 3; streamer, retro-emulator, & indie box. Sadly, that marketing effort is as big a project as making the platform was in the first place. I think Atari may not be big enough to cashflow that push. Time will tell - I guess it will hinge on how much they de-bug and optimize the Box this Jan-to-July, and what they do for marketing next Aug.-Nov. If kids (young and old) don't want a streamer, retro-emulator, &/or indie box in their stocking next Xmas, then I think VCS will likely die.

I also appreciate your pointer Shawn! I googled into this thread & started too deep in the forum hierarchy... once I clicked on the red circle you added, I found a wealth of discussion on my new system! I will still look at Reddit, but this might be a better default 'home' for VCS discussion. Thanks! Back on-topic for this thread: There is a lot to be disappointed in with the VCS, true, but I'm happy that: - they didn't vapourize, - there is an attractive retro-themed off-the-shelf Ryzen box that reminds me of my youth, - Atari at least has a *hope* of iterating this into something that can give them presence in the early 2020's (if they can learn fast enough) Personally, I think their best chance would be to partner with Stadia and clean up the launch screen to get folks into their games with fewer clicks.

Of course! I appreciate the pointer (In fact, you launched me into a good rabbit hole in there ) I am just unfamiliar. I was looking at the AtariAge website headings (and missed it in the forums because it's not under 'Atari Systems') - I'm up to speed now! - Thanks!

I am a new member at Atari Age. (First post here) I've been an Atari user since my first computer, an Atari400 in the early 80s. Many of my friends had 2600s when I was a kid. I've lurked the Atari Age site over the years and thought I should finally claim my main UserName here. I bought a VCS primarily for the case (and a bit for the controllers) and was pleased to get mine a couple weeks ago. For now I'm happy to participate in the beta-testing phase and help them de-bug and fix the flaws, but I've only fired it up a couple times so far. I know there are other Atari sites but am surprised that, after all these years, there is still no 400/800/XL section on Atari Age (though I kind of get why there is no Portfolio section). I suspect that this (plus the comments in this thread) suggests that there will be no 2020VCS section added either... which , to me, is a bit too bad since it just makes reddit the big-box store of special-interest user groups. ... unless there is a VCS section or seminal discussion somewhere that I've simply overseen?