Gorf is just an unofficial homebrew release?

[2600 Forever]

Gorf

was done professionally accordng to they typical mainstream market standards.

 

 

 

 

* crickets *

I thought so.

 

At best you can call it a "Indy" game, which is practically the same as "homebrew".

 

 

1.) What is your company called?

 

3D Stooges Software Studios

 

2.) When was the company registered?

 

In New Jersey in 2000 as Steven Scavone enterprises DBA 3D Stooges Software Studios

Split up this year as 3D Stooges Software Studios, LLC to allow my other two teammates

as equal partners. I still have the Steven Scavone ent. business too.

 

 

3.) Were taxes paid?

 

Yes dear Lord were they!

 

4.) Were royalties paid?

 

No as there were no royalties required by Jamie Fenton.

 

5.) What company pressed the discs?

 

3DSSS, LLC a video game publishing compnay.

 

6.) Which stores carried it?

 

It was an on line product. But you could also buy it from Songbird and from a

few other Jaguar dealers. Scott walters has that list.

 

* crickets *

 

Why cuz yer speechelss?

 

I thought so.

 

You thought wrong.

 

You should do yourself some homework or ask questions before you

make an ass of yourself like just now.

 

LOL, what do they call that again? Full of yourself?

 

You got any paperwork you can scan to back that up? If there were no royalties needed, why can't you sell the damn thing then? C&D letter perhaps?

 

Jeez dude, you really need to get out of your moms basement, burning CDR's on your computer is not making professionally pressed discs.

 

You crack me up with your lame attempts of insults against most people here and on JS-II.

[ovalbugmann]

2600 Forever: Go back to your forum. I don't go into the 2600 forum and tell people there that 2600 games and homebrewers are like children playing with blocks, enjoy your crappy system & stone age graphics retro-freak, Might Makes Right and the Jaguar IS the king of the Atari Jungle. Why do non-Jag Atari fans come into the Jaguar forum and harass our developers and doubt their credentials as a real video game company, your the one who is acting holier than thou with your ass-u-me ing take on the ligitimacy of 3DS as a professional company. Do you own GORF classic for the Jag? No. Then you can't judge the quality.

 

.

 

.

 

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Now on to why I think GORF classic is a Professional release.

 

I think one of the reasons Frog takes offense to GORF being called a homebrew is the fact that commercial games are all about making money and subseqently a lot of money is thrown at them in order make it really good for a higher return. Yes, homebrew is driven by pure ideas and vision, however, they can lack the production monies available to a professional company and therefore are perceived to produce a lesser quality product - they don't have a team where each member specializes in a certain area, a big budget to do cool things, the sponsorship by other companies for elements used in the game and all the other big time things a major production house can do because of money. Just because 3DS is not making a blockbuster, does not mean GORF is not a professional release or 3DS is not a pro company. They made money didn't they, and in sports a pro is someone who plays for money. The requirements of making GORF were less, I'm sure, than AvP or Skyhammer and Steve has said he did all that is possible to make it as Professional a product as possible, so just because 3DS is a small company doesn't mean EA Games could have done any better in making GORF classic as much like the original co-op as 3DS did.

 

This is the negative connotation of; Homebrew.

 

also;

 

Why isn't BattleSphere called a homebrew, about the same amount of real people are in each real company, Scatologic & 3DS. I'll tell you why BS is not called a homebrew, and it's not because the old Atari knew it was in production. BS is not called a homebrew because it's a blockbuster with all the bells & whistles, the graphics rock, the gamplay is fierce, and the AI - well, whoa it is hella crazy good. (those pilots kick my ass daily ) Gorf classic was made to be as close to the original co-op as humanly possible, and Steve and crew did a wonderful job, so good that people call it a homebrew because of the 80's style graphics and gameplay style of one of the first real video game blockbusters; Space Invaders. But that doesn't mean it's a homebrew, just because 3DS achieved their goal in making it just like the co-op version, it's meant to be a classic, not a flashy high-tech game that would then probably not be perceived as a homebrew.

Edited July 10, 2007 by ovalbugmann

[Gorf]

Gorf

was done professionally accordng to they typical mainstream market standards.

 

 

 

 

* crickets *

I thought so.

 

At best you can call it a "Indy" game, which is practically the same as "homebrew".

 

 

1.) What is your company called?

 

3D Stooges Software Studios

 

2.) When was the company registered?

 

In New Jersey in 2000 as Steven Scavone enterprises DBA 3D Stooges Software Studios

Split up this year as 3D Stooges Software Studios, LLC to allow my other two teammates

as equal partners. I still have the Steven Scavone ent. business too.

 

 

3.) Were taxes paid?

 

Yes dear Lord were they!

 

4.) Were royalties paid?

 

No as there were no royalties required by Jamie Fenton.

 

5.) What company pressed the discs?

 

3DSSS, LLC a video game publishing compnay.

 

6.) Which stores carried it?

 

It was an on line product. But you could also buy it from Songbird and from a

few other Jaguar dealers. Scott walters has that list.

 

* crickets *

 

Why cuz yer speechelss?

 

I thought so.

 

You thought wrong.

 

You should do yourself some homework or ask questions before you

make an ass of yourself like just now.

 

LOL, what do they call that again? Full of yourself?

 

You got any paperwork you can scan to back that up? If there were no royalties needed, why can't you sell the damn thing then? C&D letter perhaps?

 

Jeez dude, you really need to get out of your moms basement, burning CDR's on your computer is not making professionally pressed discs.

 

You crack me up with your lame attempts of insults against most people here and on JS-II.

 

 

Full of ones self is shooting off thier mouth, thinking they are right when they are just as dumb as gump.

So you win that one fornever!

 

Have you seen a Gorf disc? Do you own a Gorf Disc? Everyone who does own one is probably laughing

at how wlling you are to look as stupid an uninformed as you do right now. The CD's were done by a professional

with a REAL mass burnring printing Disc machine. But that cant be true cuz 2600 knows it all.

 

There is an old biblical proverb for guy just like you. It goes something to the effect..."It is better to be silent and

let people 'think' you are a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

 

Good Job 2600fornever. You did great at removing all doubt. My attempts are not to insult you. Just to make sure

everyone knows that the crap you spew is pysco babble and an attempt to hide your lack of any talent other

than shooting off your uninformed mouth. Now, when you do anything beside shoot your mouth off and

show me you've done anything useful for the gaming community, then maybe you'd have a right to

ask for proof. Until then go crawl back in your misery hole. I owe you zilch.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Gorf

[+LS650]

LOL, what do they call that again? Full of yourself?

*crickets*

 

Did you guys hear something?

[JimmydelaKopin]

Oooo...there's a debate too hot and flame-y for me to touch...

...so I'll just go back to the original topic: is Gorf an unofficial homebrew release?

 

Well, going back to the original game, I'd say that Midway's original Gorf is an unofficial homebrew release.

The company got licenses from both Namco (owners of Galaxian) and Taito (owners of Space Invaders). They hack both games, combine them, add other stages they made up themselves, and call it a new game.

Sheesh, that's not homebrewing? Come on! Gorf is the homebrewed game gone big-time! If anything, it's proof that even big-name companies weren't above a little homebrewing. Where do yall think all those Pac-Man sequels came from, anyway? Namco?

[Gorf]

Oooo...there's a debate too hot and flame-y for me to touch...

...so I'll just go back to the original topic: is Gorf an unofficial homebrew release?

 

Well, going back to the original game, I'd say that Midway's original Gorf is an unofficial homebrew release.

The company got licenses from both Namco (owners of Galaxian) and Taito (owners of Space Invaders). They hack both games, combine them, add other stages they made up themselves, and call it a new game.

Sheesh, that's not homebrewing? Come on! Gorf is the homebrewed game gone big-time! If anything, it's proof that even big-name companies weren't above a little homebrewing. Where do yall think all those Pac-Man sequels came from, anyway? Namco?

 

 

I think frankenhacking is a better term for Gorf than Homebrew if you really want to get down to it.

Plus I'd hardly rate my gorf Arcade as hombrew.

[Buyatari]

The term "homebrew" has to go completely.

 

The term to be used should be "after-market" I don't care if Atari themselves made a game in 2007 its not in the same catagory as those made while they system was marketed.

[Gorf]

The term "homebrew" has to go completely.

 

The term to be used should be "after-market" I don't care if Atari themselves made a game in 2007 its not in the same catagory as those made while they system was marketed.

 

Symantics. It's all about symantics. No matter how you slice it, if a legit company, makes a legit product

that matches the mainstream system's quality in packaging and presentation than is professional.

Again Hombrew, professional and after market can be used together they are not exclusive from one another.

Gorf is a professional after market product. It's not homebrew as it is made by a registered software publisher

3D Stooges Software Studios. BattleSphere is a professional after market product made by Scatologic and its

not homebrew either. Game taste is another story completely . I can show you a ton of games that are coded

professionally but still suck and dont even deserve designation as a game.

 

This is just another bitness argument. There is no single definition. There are many definitions of

'professional'.... http:\\www.dictionary.com alone has 13.

[Gorf]

From dictionary.com

 

1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain: a professional builder.

2. of, pertaining to, or connected with a profession: professional studies.

3. appropriate to a profession: professional objectivity.

4. engaged in one of the learned professions: A lawyer is a professional person.

5. following as a business an occupation ordinarily engaged in as a pastime: a professional golfer.

6. making a business or constant practice of something not properly to be regarded as a business: “A salesman,” he said, “is a professional optimist.”

7. undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball.

8. of or for a professional person or his or her place of business or work: a professional apartment; professional equipment.

9. done by a professional; expert: professional car repairs.

–noun 10. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.

11. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

12. an expert player, as of golf or tennis, serving as a teacher, consultant, performer, or contestant; pro.

13. a person who is expert at his or her work: You can tell by her comments that this editor is a real professional.

 

There is nothing that im reading here that tells me home built/made products are not professional.

[spiffyone]

Again, if it matches or surpasses the same quality as say an Xbox game in packging and printned materials, who the

heck cares if it was in a garage.

 

That's what I was trying to get at, though I screwed up the wording big time.

 

However, I will say that there are even problems with that definition, as several original releases on, say, XBLA, are professionally done (Geometry Wars, for instance), and those aren't actually packaged nor have printed materials in the sense that games available at retail do. Yet Geometry Wars is absolutely a professionally developed game.

 

To sum up how I (and only I, I know) place it, "pro" games are games that are released by those that are in the business, and in the business of selling that particular product for a definite profit. An "indy" release is much the same, but the expectation of profit is very low or nil. In a way, "indy" releases are more done to get your name, skills, and ideas out there rather than expectation of making any type of profit off of the product. Homebrew, to me, is simply hobbyist development. It isn't "serious" development in the way that professional/big and indy releases are.

 

I'm a bit of a filmmaker, so I can most simply state my reasoning using film as a comparison:

 

"Pro" games are like the movies you'd see at most mainstream theatres. They cover a broad range of genres and production costs, but are done with the expectation that they will make some money. Most don't. But the expectation is, in fact, there for all of them. And many aren't done for the "love of the art itself", but rather because it's a business, and the business is in the business of selling product, and so product is needed.

 

"Indy" games are like the movies you'd see at art houses, film festivals, and in very limited releases. These types of things aren't really done for money, but for the love of the art itself. Some make money, most don't, but the names of those behind the production are "out there", and more importantly that which they wished to convey to the audience. Hell, with film festivals no money is made as you get none of the ticket sales (if there even are tickets for sale). You pay to have your film shown to audiences (in order to be in the festival). These types of productions may be mid to low to even no budget, but that doesn't mean that the production values are poor. Rather, most of the money is sunk into the production with little monetary compensation to those involved with the production. The movie thus isn't so much a product in the sense that it's what's being "sold", but rather the "product" of the love of the artists.

 

"Homebrew" games are like home movies, or screwing around with a camera and making your own little mini-Hollywood movie. Most are just piss poor productions, but some can be done by film students (I suspect programmers program stuff on the side as a hobby...filmmakers do silly shit with our home cameras) or, rather, "students of film" and be quite good. But they aren't really meant to be anything more than screwing around or trying new things. It's more of a "hey, let me show you what I did one day" rather than "hey, let me show you what I devoted most of my time to these past few months". It isn't either type of product, really. Yes, there is some amount of passion involved, as there is with any hobby, but the difference with "indy" releases is that the passion level for those is much, much greater.

 

Some may disagree with my comparisons all together.

 

That's what's grand about opinions.

[spiffyone]

BTW, when I write "home movies", I don't mean movies that are filmed at home (as indy releases can be that way as well), but rather not having the type of conceptualization that is inherent in "pro" and "indy" releases.

[Buyatari]

Like I said it has NOTHING to do with professionalism or if it was made at home or by a company. Quality has nothing to do with it. Hacks were made then and they are made now. Professional games were made then and they can still be made today. If you are strictly talking about a game you can call it whatever you want and base it on quality and thats fine. As a collector lines have to be drawn and Atari 2600 games are seperated from Atari 5200 games. We also seperate by country and we seperate by era. We do not seperate on the basis of quality. Asking Al to remove the crappy hacks from the rarity database and inserting all the new quality games is a neverending losing debate.

 

Either it was made during the era or it was not.

 

If the Atari Flashback 5 comes out with a cart port and Atari themselves produces a few new games on cart they can't be considered to be in the same category as those from 1981. You want to give them special notation within the aftermarket section I can live with that just keep it out of the main section.

 

 

 

The term "homebrew" has to go completely.

 

The term to be used should be "after-market" I don't care if Atari themselves made a game in 2007 its not in the same catagory as those made while they system was marketed.

 

Symantics. It's all about symantics. No matter how you slice it, if a legit company, makes a legit product

that matches the mainstream system's quality in packaging and presentation than is professional.

Again Hombrew, professional and after market can be used together they are not exclusive from one another.

Gorf is a professional after market product. It's not homebrew as it is made by a registered software publisher

3D Stooges Software Studios. BattleSphere is a professional after market product made by Scatologic and its

not homebrew either. Game taste is another story completely . I can show you a ton of games that are coded

professionally but still suck and dont even deserve designation as a game.

 

This is just another bitness argument. There is no single definition. There are many definitions of

'professional'.... http:\\www.dictionary.com alone has 13.

[Gorf]

Like I said it has NOTHING to do with professionalism or if it was made at home or by a company. Quality has nothing to do with it. Hacks were made then and they are made now. Professional games were made then and they can still be made today. If you are strictly talking about a game you can call it whatever you want and base it on quality and thats fine. As a collector lines have to be drawn and Atari 2600 games are seperated from Atari 5200 games. We also seperate by country and we seperate by era. We do not seperate on the basis of quality. Asking Al to remove the crappy hacks from the rarity database and inserting all the new quality games is a neverending losing debate.

 

Either it was made during the era or it was not.

 

If the Atari Flashback 5 comes out with a cart port and Atari themselves produces a few new games on cart they can't be considered to be in the same category as those from 1981. You want to give them special notation within the aftermarket section I can live with that just keep it out of the main section.

 

 

 

The term "homebrew" has to go completely.

 

The term to be used should be "after-market" I don't care if Atari themselves made a game in 2007 its not in the same catagory as those made while they system was marketed.

 

Symantics. It's all about symantics. No matter how you slice it, if a legit company, makes a legit product

that matches the mainstream system's quality in packaging and presentation than is professional.

Again Hombrew, professional and after market can be used together they are not exclusive from one another.

Gorf is a professional after market product. It's not homebrew as it is made by a registered software publisher

3D Stooges Software Studios. BattleSphere is a professional after market product made by Scatologic and its

not homebrew either. Game taste is another story completely . I can show you a ton of games that are coded

professionally but still suck and dont even deserve designation as a game.

 

This is just another bitness argument. There is no single definition. There are many definitions of

'professional'.... http:\\www.dictionary.com alone has 13.

 

If that is true, how do we classify audio cassettes? the cassette player is no longer

a mainstream product but you can still buy cassettes for them at stores. Are

cassette tapes an after market? There are plenty of after market accesories for

devices no longer mainstream or current market. CD disc mfg's will be no less

professional once everyone stops making CD drive will they?

 

Again, I do not think the current market of a product excludes the use of the terms

professional. I can see you saying that Gorf is not an Atari Authorized release but

aside from collecting, why should it matter when or where it was made?

 

If you are then saying from a collectors vision, Gorf though a professional product

is an after market release.....ie...after the death of the Jaguar market(as in when

Atari left us all out in the cold video gaming wilderness of shame once again?)

 

I can live with that.

[Buyatari]

If that is true, how do we classify audio cassettes? the cassette player is no longer

a mainstream product but you can still buy cassettes for them at stores. Are

cassette tapes an after market? There are plenty of after market accesories for

devices no longer mainstream or current market. CD disc mfg's will be no less

professional once everyone stops making CD drive will they?

 

Again, I do not think the current market of a product excludes the use of the terms

professional. I can see you saying that Gorf is not an Atari Authorized release but

aside from collecting, why should it matter when or where it was made?

 

How do I classify music cassette tapes? Who cares? I collect classic video games and thats ALL I am talking about. I'll let the music collector come to their own terms. Now if there is an after market atari release on cassette then its an aftermarket product if it was during the time supercharger games were sold then its a release. Doesn't matter what format it is on but when it was created.

 

Aside from collecting some people still enjoy vintage products over modern takes on the vintage product. They remember games from childhood and the new games just weren't there.

 

If you are then saying from a collectors vision, Gorf though a professional product

is an after market release.....ie...after the death of the Jaguar market(as in when

Atari left us all out in the cold video gaming wilderness of shame once again?)

 

Thats exactly what I am saying.

[Gorf]

If you are then saying from a collectors vision, Gorf though a professional product

is an after market release.....ie...after the death of the Jaguar market(as in when

Atari left us all out in the cold video gaming wilderness of shame once again?)

Thats exactly what I am saying.

 

Um ok...den we coo!