Jaguar vs. 3DO?

[agradeneu]

BattlesSphere has out classed every systems games until Xbox Halo in terms

of AI and game logic.

 

 

 

In your very own little, bizarre world.

 

Why are you insulting him? He's giving you his professional opinion. Disagree with him, but why insult him?

 

Plese post a video on youtube showing a game before HALO that shows evidence of superior A.I. to BattleSphere.

 

 

There are TONS of games with better AI than Battlesphere. "Professional opinion"? Gorf? ROFL.

BS does nothing better than Xwing or Tie Fighter, the latter one is far superior. There is no doubt that BS is a great Jaguar game for all the limitation the system has. But anyway....

Edited July 27, 2007 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

BattlesSphere has out classed every systems games until Xbox Halo in terms

of AI and game logic.

 

 

 

In your very own little, bizarre world.

 

Why are you insulting him? He's giving you his professional opinion. Disagree with him, but why insult him?

 

Plese post a video on youtube showing a game before HALO that shows evidence of superior A.I. to BattleSphere.

I don't doubt Steve believes what he's saying but the way he and Thunderbird go about things gets me irritated.. just now on JSII their basically saying that Wing Commander Arena is ripping off of Battlesphere.. I know Doug did some incredible things with Battlesphere but why must they think themselves "Gods"? It's good to be humbled sometimes but an inflated ego just makes you look like an ass, especially for a genre of games that will and has been ripping off of each other for years.. theres only so many ways you can do space battle and the representation of war in space.. I mean no disrespect but c'mon guys..

 

Very well said Emo. "Inflated ego" is just spot on.

[EmOneGarand]

BattlesSphere has out classed every systems games until Xbox Halo in terms

of AI and game logic.

 

 

 

In your very own little, bizarre world.

 

Why are you insulting him? He's giving you his professional opinion. Disagree with him, but why insult him?

 

Plese post a video on youtube showing a game before HALO that shows evidence of superior A.I. to BattleSphere.

I don't doubt Steve believes what he's saying but the way he and Thunderbird go about things gets me irritated.. just now on JSII their basically saying that Wing Commander Arena is ripping off of Battlesphere.. I know Doug did some incredible things with Battlesphere but why must they think themselves "Gods"? It's good to be humbled sometimes but an inflated ego just makes you look like an ass, especially for a genre of games that will and has been ripping off of each other for years.. theres only so many ways you can do space battle and the representation of war in space.. I mean no disrespect but c'mon guys..

 

Very well said Emo. "Inflated ego" is just spot on.

They have explained themselves to me, I can see I was a bit rash in my statements.

Edited July 28, 2007 by EmOneGarand

[Rev. Rob]

BattlesSphere has out classed every systems games until Xbox Halo in terms

of AI and game logic.

 

 

 

In your very own little, bizarre world.

 

Why are you insulting him? He's giving you his professional opinion. Disagree with him, but why insult him?

 

Plese post a video on youtube showing a game before HALO that shows evidence of superior A.I. to BattleSphere.

 

 

There are TONS of games with better AI than Battlesphere. "Professional opinion"? Gorf? ROFL.

BS does nothing better than Xwing or Tie Fighter, the latter one is far superior. There is no doubt that BS is a great Jaguar game for all the limitation the system has. But anyway....

 

 

Oh my gosh, and it is definately not better or more realistic that StarLancer.

[A Sprite]

"BattleSphere would have looked better on the PSX than on the Jaguar, but its gameplay would have suffered for it."

 

The Jaguar's multiple CPUs let me do things with physics and AI that were a good 5 years ahead of the rest of the game industry. It wasn't until Halo was released that I finally felt utterly outgunned. Of course, that would change pretty fast given funding on a modern platform... :-)...

 

All Gorf did was take a programmer's word for it. Question his politics, because they're scary, question his sense of humor, because he takes shit way too serious - but there's no way to prove this one way or the other.

 

As long as a game's AI is good enough to entertain me, it's all that's needed.

Edited July 28, 2007 by A Sprite

[agradeneu]

"BattleSphere would have looked better on the PSX than on the Jaguar, but its gameplay would have suffered for it."

 

The Jaguar's multiple CPUs let me do things with physics and AI that were a good 5 years ahead of the rest of the game industry. It wasn't until Halo was released that I finally felt utterly outgunned. Of course, that would change pretty fast given funding on a modern platform... :-)...

 

 

 

FAR from truth.

:roll:

The PSX has obviously more math capabilities than the Jaguar. Any PSX game pushes real time Polygon calculation, collision detection, animation and physical interaction on a complex level far beyond the Jaguar's capabilities. Battlesphere is something special on the Jaguar, but stripped of its myth, it's an average shooter done better on other systems.

BTW Iron Sodier II is the best 3D on the Jaguar.

Edited July 28, 2007 by agradeneu

[Pete5125]

The reason the 3D0 wins the battle in the gamers mind is because they had EA in their back pocket. Which was great. Need for Speed, Road Rash, FIFA, John Madden, all sports games on the 3D0 for the time were the best you could buy on any console and it showed, compare Madden to Troy Aikman or even brutal sports. Compare Need for Speed w/ Checkerd Flag, Club Drive, World Tour. Which would you rather play. 3D0 games always had great graphics and great sound(most games had real music for real bands). The only problem alot of 3D0 games had was lag time in control, because it was a cd based game.

 

Do I think Jaguar could of been beter than 3DO, of course, you say Atari was rushing games down the pike but when I bought mine durring the 1st year, games trickled out about 1 or 2 a month making purchasing a bad game or substandard game even worst. At the time a sub standard fighting game was exceptable because I had to have a 64 bit fighting game. But when you go to your local Electronic Boutique to find Trevor McFur, A vs P, Checkerd Flag, DD5, Dino Dudes, and Iron Soldier. You already have Iron Soldier, Avs P, Cyber Morph, and Temptest 2K ;so you know what to expect then you start buying the other games out at the time and you start to get a bad taste for the Jag you look over at the 3D0 and see that their are already 50+ games out for it.

 

Atari should of been more hands on got out the developement kits, play test their games fixed problems before the games came out...you guys will say that then the games wouldn't of came out as fast ...quote the games did not come out fast in any way another month or 2 to fix the bugs would of saved the system and most bad games...also why did Atari not seek out their brother Tengen/Time Warner and give them an early peak at the system so that the Jag could have an early version of Primal Rage, Pit Fighter 2, Hard Drivin, Race Drivin, or any of the arcade games at the time obviously atari was able to get the licenses for the Lynx.

[DracIsBack]

Any PSX game pushes real time Polygon calculation, collision detection, animation and physical interaction on a complex level far beyond the Jaguar's capabilities.

 

Played every last PSX game to be able to make such a sweeping determination, have you?

 

Not getting into the system battle of specs, but I do find statements like this entertaining.

Edited July 29, 2007 by DracIsBack

[Gorf]

BattlesSphere has out classed every systems games until Xbox Halo in terms

of AI and game logic.

 

 

 

In your very own little, bizarre world.

 

Why are you insulting him? He's giving you his professional opinion. Disagree with him, but why insult him?

 

Plese post a video on youtube showing a game before HALO that shows evidence of superior A.I. to BattleSphere.

I don't doubt Steve believes what he's saying but the way he and Thunderbird go about things gets me irritated.. just now on JSII their basically saying that Wing Commander Arena is ripping off of Battlesphere.. I know Doug did some incredible things with Battlesphere but why must they think themselves "Gods"? It's good to be humbled sometimes but an inflated ego just makes you look like an ass, especially for a genre of games that will and has been ripping off of each other for years.. theres only so many ways you can do space battle and the representation of war in space.. I mean no disrespect but c'mon guys..

 

Very well said Emo. "Inflated ego" is just spot on.

 

 

You call it ego. I call it experience and confidence. Again all of you confuse the looks

of a game with game logic and AI....they are unrelated. The look of a game is not

intellegence nor is it 'game' logic. Ask any programmer. Any programmer.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Gorf

[Gorf]

Any PSX game pushes real time Polygon calculation,

 

Correct. It has a dedicated polygon matrix math processor. For once you are dead on.

 

 

collision detection, animation and physical interaction on a complex level far beyond the Jaguar's capabilities.

 

VERY incorrect. I wont even include the 68k as the DSP and the GPU together GROSSLY

out power the ONE Playstations R3000. The Jaguar Risc's have a more robust math

instruction set. This is just your opinion but your opinion does not line up with reality.

Sorry.

 

 

Battlesphere is something special on the Jaguar, but stripped of its myth, it's an average shooter done better on other systems.

 

 

Myth? What 'Myth' might that be?

 

BTW Iron Sodier II is the best 3D on the Jaguar.

 

In your opinion(one of my faves too BTW). Just some facts though. It's not

doing AI as strong as BattleSphere.....fact. You are obviously not a coder like

a good deal of folks here that 'think' they know but really dont. Don't let your

eyes fool you. Again, as far as ease goes, I'd rather write the code to any

other type of game over a space battle.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Gorf

[Gorf]

"BattleSphere would have looked better on the PSX than on the Jaguar, but its gameplay would have suffered for it."

 

The Jaguar's multiple CPUs let me do things with physics and AI that were a good 5 years ahead of the rest of the game industry. It wasn't until Halo was released that I finally felt utterly outgunned. Of course, that would change pretty fast given funding on a modern platform... :-)...

 

All Gorf did was take a programmer's word for it. Question his politics, because they're scary, question his sense of humor, because he takes shit way too serious - but there's no way to prove this one way or the other.

 

As long as a game's AI is good enough to entertain me, it's all that's needed.

 

 

All I did was try to educate you folks with my 29+ years of coding experience.

I'm not making this up. It is the way it is. I gain nothing personally from this.

It's quite the opposite. I get bashed and ridiculed by unexperienced people

who think looking at a game is the only way to determine what the program

is doing. Agradeneu is always saying things contrary to me but he never posts

any facts to back it up.

 

I took things serioulsy because I thought we were being serious. I see I waste my

breath around here though. I post known facts, and get bashed for my english,

my politics, get called corny names, and then have my parents dragged into it,

one of whom is dead. I think my 29+ years of experience should mean something

to folks around here but it's gettting more clear that the armchair programmers

still know better. This is not ego. It's fustration hearing people who would fail a

simple coding quiz were I to post it telling me Im a fool and know nothing.

 

Other than posting the code here, ther is no way I could possibly prove it to you.

I'll try to explain why it is true ONE MORE TIME.

 

AI in BattleSphere is every bit as complex as I have told you. I have played

Starlancer and it not on the same level of BattleSphere. Graphically is certainly

outdoes the Jaguar and no one will deny that. The enemies are no where near as

intellegent as those of BattleSphere...The PSX only has ONE actual processor

that can do AI. All other processors in the machine are hardwired to do either

graphics, sound and compression but none are used EVER for game logic and AI

becasue they can't be. They are not general purpose. That is the job of the R3000A.

The R3000A is a monster of a processor but it not going to out do two GPU's that

already have better math ablilities. Jag risc have a few extra intructions that make

a big difference in how intellegence is coded. IT has modulo, matrix multiplies,

MAC(mulitply and acummulate), saturation and a few others not found on the r3000.

 

It will ot do the Jaguar in math with it's MIPS FPU co-proccesor but...oops..

there isn't one in the Playstation. Also the jagur RISC's have an alternate register

bank which doubles the registers. Together the GPU and DSP will beotch slap

an MIPS R3000A by itself. Add that FPU and then you can make an argument.

Until then there is nothing to argue as this is based on info a simple google search

will reveal.

 

The Jaguar has 3 general processors and two PROGRAMMABLE graphics porcessors.

It wont out do a PSX in triangle count ever but it will out math it and meet or excede it

in all other areas. PSX wins in graphics not game logic or AI.

[agradeneu]

"BattleSphere would have looked better on the PSX than on the Jaguar, but its gameplay would have suffered for it."

 

The Jaguar's multiple CPUs let me do things with physics and AI that were a good 5 years ahead of the rest of the game industry. It wasn't until Halo was released that I finally felt utterly outgunned. Of course, that would change pretty fast given funding on a modern platform... :-)...

 

All Gorf did was take a programmer's word for it. Question his politics, because they're scary, question his sense of humor, because he takes shit way too serious - but there's no way to prove this one way or the other.

 

As long as a game's AI is good enough to entertain me, it's all that's needed.

 

 

All I did was try to educate you folks with my 29+ years of coding experience.

I'm not making this up. It is the way it is. I gain nothing personally from this.

It's quite the opposite. I get bashed and ridiculed by unexperienced people

who think looking at a game is the only way to determine what the program

is doing. Agradeneu is always saying things contrary to me but he never posts

any facts to back it up.

 

I took things serioulsy because I thought we were being serious. I see I waste my

breath around here though. I post known facts, and get bashed for my english,

my politics, get called corny names, and then have my parents dragged into it,

one of whom is dead. I think my 29+ years of experience should mean something

to folks around here but it's gettting more clear that the armchair programmers

still know better. This is not ego. It's fustration hearing people who would fail a

simple coding quiz were I to post it telling me Im a fool and know nothing.

 

Other than posting the code here, ther is no way I could possibly prove it to you.

I'll try to explain why it is true ONE MORE TIME.

 

AI in BattleSphere is every bit as complex as I have told you. I have played

Starlancer and it not on the same level of BattleSphere. Graphically is certainly

outdoes the Jaguar and no one will deny that. The enemies are no where near as

intellegent as those of BattleSphere...The PSX only has ONE actual processor

that can do AI. All other processors in the machine are hardwired to do either

graphics, sound and compression but none are used EVER for game logic and AI

becasue they can't be. They are not general purpose. That is the job of the R3000A.

The R3000A is a monster of a processor but it not going to out do two GPU's that

already have better math ablilities. Jag risc have a few extra intructions that make

a big difference in how intellegence is coded. IT has modulo, matrix multiplies,

MAC(mulitply and acummulate), saturation and a few others not found on the r3000.

 

It will ot do the Jaguar in math with it's MIPS FPU co-proccesor but...oops..

there isn't one in the Playstation. Also the jagur RISC's have an alternate register

bank which doubles the registers. Together the GPU and DSP will beotch slap

an MIPS R3000A by itself. Add that FPU and then you can make an argument.

Until then there is nothing to argue as this is based on info a simple google search

will reveal.

 

The Jaguar has 3 general processors and two PROGRAMMABLE graphics porcessors.

It wont out do a PSX in triangle count ever but it will out math it and meet or excede it

in all other areas. PSX wins in graphics not game logic or AI.

 

I would suggest you to drop the Spinal Tap thing before you make a fool out of yourself.

The problem with your theories is that they are clashing with reality. Your theories are screwed up:

The GPU or DSP are never free for AI or gamelogic as they are dedicated to gfx and sound. The actual performance of a system is determined by what you can process of gfx+gamelogic+AI per frame. If GPU does gfx it cant be used 100% for AI, if the DSP does sound it cant be used for AI or gamelogic.

Then you probably run out of bandwidth. In fact, use of GPU and DSp is very limited compared to the PSX's R3000 which is 100% free for CPU tasks like you have said. Your theory is invalid as you tend to single out certain facts and patch-work them together till it sums up as you like. These methods are not very professional, in fact it just pretentious, gigantomanic bullshit.

 

But putting theories aside, the PSX actually leapfrogs the Jaguar in 3D applications (no theory), so your lofty theories ultimatelely fail and any further discussion of make up facts and "what if theories" is worthless. The AI of 99% Jaguar games IS rather primitive (Checkered Flag anyone?) and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

If you really think that a handful of low poly, non textured objects on an otherwise blank screen, randomly shooting at the player prove any of your points then I wonder your obvious lack of references or have to refer to your plain ignorance of what really matters. Show me just one application for Jaguar which proves your point. Till then just be quiet.

Edited July 30, 2007 by agradeneu

[Michael_]

...and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

It´s the other way around.

Disregarding the technical side of things I´ll chime in from the players POV regarding BattleSphere .

The AI of this game *does* feel superior to most other 3D space shooters I´ve ever played. It´s hard to put your finger on exactly why this is, but it´s definitely there and it *does* simulate pretty well that it´s thinking.

I´ve said it before, but at times it almost feels like you´re playing online with other sentient beings.

 

Whether or not you think that the Jaguar is capable of running a mean AI based on its architecture and innards is beside the point, and if you *are* indeed right, I´d say that Scott LeGrand has performed nothing short of a miracle with what he had to work with.

[Gorf]

The problem with your theories is that they are clashing with reality. Then there is a big mistake in your construction:

 

Ok, this ought to be good.....

 

The GPU or DSP are never free for AI or gamelogic as they are dedicated to gfx and sound.

 

First the PSX does not have 100% freedom....it still has to manage ALL those other functions.

It just has to do it a lot less per frame.

 

The GPU is VERY seperate from the OPL and Blitter and once you write to the command registers

of either, the GPU can go back to doing PLENTY of computing. The other two do what they

need to do unassisted once commanded. The PSX has to tell its other support circuity what to

do. It does just a lot less often. Get a clue. You are embarassing yourself.

 

Every one of the games I have in progress use both the DSP and the GPU for game logic,

point translations as well as the graphics. We have not even come close to exhausting

the bus yet either. Im telling you , you should just wait and see because you are wrong.

 

I wont get the same amount of polygons but they will look better and be cleaner and my game

logic will always be stronger if I want it to.Why? Because I have a multi-general processor system.

All of which can run in parallel. Im willing to bet every jag game out there doe not even come

close to saturating the bus. The games are only mis-using that bus. You are seeing what the

68k can do to the system as it is way over used.

 

The actual performance of a system is determined by what you can process of gfx+gamelogic+AI per frame. If GPU does gfx it cant be used 100% for AI, if the DSP does sound it cant be used for AI or gamelogic.

Then you probably run out of bandwidth. In fact, use of GPU and DSp is very limited compared to the PSX's R3000 which is 100% free for CPU tasks like you have said.

 

See above paragraph. It does not need to be free 100% of the time. The GPU can do way more than

just tell the blitter what to do. It can feed the bliter its command via its interal bus VERY fast in maybe

30 (out of 55 million+)cycles with a FULL blit command load. Do some research to you save yourself

some embarasment. Then you forget you still have two riscs and one 68k against one R3000. Im telling

you. your opinions are not reality and if you simply do some homework you'll see that.

 

But putting theories aside, the PSX actually leapfrogs the Jaguar in 3D applications (no theory), so your lofty

theories ultimatelely fail and any further discussion of make up facts and "what if theories" is worthless.

 

What is worthless is trying argue with people who want to use an opinion over facts. Yes you

sound good but none of it is true. It is worthless to argue the crap because it dos not matter

anyway. I'll still have my taste in games and so will you. The Jaguar is capable of all I have

said and that is the whole point of these ridiculous topics. You just like always want to pick

a fight with me. Fine, just be accurate. You have yet to be.

 

Not one thing you tried to dispute me with is even remotely true outside of the Playstations is faster

at 3D. It is limited to shading and texturing and some lighting. The Jag can do this and just about every

other type of rendering effect because it is not in anyway tied to dedicated hardware. It just does a lot less perframe. You are simply wrong. You cant find anything information wise to back up what you say because it does'nt exsist. Your opinons only make you look smart when they jive with facts that are easily findable.

Ever hear of google? Try it sometime.

 

The AI of 99% Jaguar games IS rather primitive (Checkered Flag anyone?) and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

You once again keep mistaking looks for AI and game logic. I dont expect you to know either.

Battle Sphere is superior to every game in AI ive seen until the DC. Saturn and PSX do not have

any application I know of that out does Battle Sphere. Star Lancer is real good but not as good as

Battlesphere. Graphically yes its a much nicer looking app. It's definitely NOT a smarter one.

 

Show me just one application for Jaguar which proves your point.

 

That is not and never was the point of this discussion. Now please get back on topic

and use some information outside of your opinion. Also a little knowledge of your

background in the field computing might help you be more convincing(until I dispute

you with known facts again.)

 

If you want to discuss the grpahics of systems you'd have some good points here but

you are just so off topic. We ARE discussing what could be, not what is. Get with it.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Gorf

[agradeneu]

...and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

It´s the other way around.

Disregarding the technical side of things I´ll chime in from the players POV regarding BattleSphere .

The AI of this game *does* feel superior to most other 3D space shooters I´ve ever played. It´s hard to put your finger on exactly why this is, but it´s definitely there and it *does* simulate pretty well that it´s thinking.

I´ve said it before, but at times it almost feels like you´re playing online with other sentient beings.

 

Whether or not you think that the Jaguar is capable of running a mean AI based on its architecture and innards is beside the point, and if you *are* indeed right, I´d say that Scott LeGrand has performed nothing short of a miracle with what he had to work with.

 

 

In the eyes of a Jaguar fan?!

 

Check yor references. Which ones have you played? BTW I did not deny Battlespheres grandezza compared to other Jaguar games but....

At least take anything Gorf says with a grain of salt, will you?

[Gorf]

...and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

It´s the other way around.

Disregarding the technical side of things I´ll chime in from the players POV regarding BattleSphere .

The AI of this game *does* feel superior to most other 3D space shooters I´ve ever played. It´s hard to put your finger on exactly why this is, but it´s definitely there and it *does* simulate pretty well that it´s thinking.

I´ve said it before, but at times it almost feels like you´re playing online with other sentient beings.

 

Whether or not you think that the Jaguar is capable of running a mean AI based on its architecture and innards is beside the point, and if you *are* indeed right, I´d say that Scott LeGrand has performed nothing short of a miracle with what he had to work with.

 

 

In the eyes of a Jaguar fan?!

 

Check yor references. Which ones have you played? BTW I did not deny Battlespheres grandezza compared to other Jaguar games but....

At least take anything Gorf says with a grain of salt, will you?

 

 

No, stop...I cant breath no more.

 

Why? I am experienced console and computer coder for 3 decades now. Why would they EVER

take your word over mine? This is delusional. No one is taking MY word but the word of facts

and figures you refuse to go lookup. Why is that? Because you KNOW you will look stupid after

you do. can't say I blame you. Dream on kido...maybe your dreams will come true....in another

reality, in another dimension....but ...dont hold your breath too long(unless it will shut you up

with your cluelessness.)

[agradeneu]

The problem with your theories is that they are clashing with reality. Then there is a big mistake in your construction:

 

Ok, this ought to be good.....

 

The GPU or DSP are never free for AI or gamelogic as they are dedicated to gfx and sound.

 

First the PSX does not have 100% freedom....it still has to manage ALL those other functions

it just has to do it a lot less per frame.

 

The GPU is VERY seperate from the OPL and Blitter and once you write to the command registers

of either, the GPU can go back to doing PLENTY of computing as the other two do what they

need to do unassisted once comanded. The PSX has to tell its other support circuity what to

do just a lot less often. Get a clue. You are embarassing yourself.

 

Every one of the games I have in progress use both the DSP and the GPU for game logic,

point translations as well as the graphics. We have not even come close to exhausting

the bus yet either. Im telling you , you should just wait and see becasue you are wrong.

 

I wont get the same amount of polygons but they will look better and be cleaner and my game

logic will always be stronger if I wnt it to because I have a multi-general procesor system.

All of which can run in parallel. Im willing to bet every jag game out there doe not even come

close to saturating the bus. You are seeing what the 68k can do to the system as it is way over

used.

 

The actual performance of a system is determined by what you can process of gfx+gamelogic+AI per frame. If GPU does gfx it cant be used 100% for AI, if the DSP does sound it cant be used for AI or gamelogic.

Then you probably run out of bandwidth. In fact, use of GPU and DSp is very limited compared to the PSX's R3000 which is 100% free for CPU tasks like you have said.

 

See above paragraph. It does not need to be free 100% of the time. The GPU can do way more than

just tell the blitter what to do. It can feed the bliter its command via its interal bus VERY fast in maybe

30 (out of 55 million+)cycles with a FULL blit command load. Do some research to you save yourself

some embarasment. Then you forget you still have two riscs and one 68k against one R3000. Im telling

you reality is not yours and if you simply do some homework you'll see that.

 

So 2>1? Good math Gorf! But BS in perspective of programming.

 

But putting theories aside, the PSX actually leapfrogs the Jaguar in 3D applications (no theory), so your lofty

theories ultimatelely fail and any further discussion of make up facts and "what if theories" is worthless.

 

What is worthless is trying argue with people who want to use an opinion over facts. Yes you

sound good but none of it is true. It is worthless to argue the crap because it dos not matter

anyway. I'll still have my taste in games and so will you. You just like always want to pick

a fight with me. Fine, just be accurate. You have yet to be.

 

Not one thing you tried to dispute me with is even remotely true outside of the Playstations is faster

at 3D. It is limited to shading and texturing and some lighting. The Jag can do this and just about every

other type of rendering effect because it is not in anyway tied to dedicated hardware. You are

simply wrong. You cant find anything information wise to back up what you say because it does'nt

exsist. Your opinons only make you look smart when they jive with facts that are easily findable.

Ever hear of google? Try it sometime.

 

You sound damn stupid if you try to twist words.

 

The AI of 99% Jaguar games IS rather primitive (Checkered Flag anyone?) and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

You mistake once again, looks for AI and game logic. I dont expect you to know either. Battle

Sphere is superior to every game in AI ive seen until the DC. Saturn and PSX do not have any

application I know of that out does Battle Sphere. Star Lancer is real good but not as good as

Battlesphere. Graphically yes its a much nicer looking app. It's definitely NOT a smarter one.

 

That's your OPINION

 

Show me just one application for Jaguar which proves your point.

 

That is not and never was the point of this discussion. Now please get back on topic

and use some information outside of your opinion. Also a little knowledge of your

background to us all in the field fd computing might help you be more convincing

until I despute you with known facts again.

 

If you want to discuss the grpahics fo systems you'd have some good points here but

you are just so off topic. This is a Jaguar vs 3DO thread anyway. Just silly! All of it!

 

 

What is worthless is trying argue with people who want to use an opinion over facts.

 

Well said. But the fact remains that Jaguars 3D applications are primitive in any category. And that makes your facts worthless and your opinion rather optimistic!

 

The Jaguar is capable of all I have

said and that is the whole point of these ridiculous topics.

 

The whole point is that you promise ppl things you cant fulfill. Your application still uses the Atari renderer and it is not substantially better 3D than any generic Jaguar game released so far. So what? Will you trip over your very own gigantomanic bullshit? Besides that, what is your reference in coding?

Did you ever pull off something comparable to a generic PC or PSX game? Did you ever code the PSX? Did you ever pull off complex 3D applications on modern hardware? Did you ever pull off a complete game? I assure you, as soon as one PSX coder enters this board you will be embarassed by yourself and your false claims.

Edited July 30, 2007 by agradeneu

[agradeneu]

...and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

It´s the other way around.

Disregarding the technical side of things I´ll chime in from the players POV regarding BattleSphere .

The AI of this game *does* feel superior to most other 3D space shooters I´ve ever played. It´s hard to put your finger on exactly why this is, but it´s definitely there and it *does* simulate pretty well that it´s thinking.

I´ve said it before, but at times it almost feels like you´re playing online with other sentient beings.

 

Whether or not you think that the Jaguar is capable of running a mean AI based on its architecture and innards is beside the point, and if you *are* indeed right, I´d say that Scott LeGrand has performed nothing short of a miracle with what he had to work with.

 

 

In the eyes of a Jaguar fan?!

 

Check yor references. Which ones have you played? BTW I did not deny Battlespheres grandezza compared to other Jaguar games but....

At least take anything Gorf says with a grain of salt, will you?

 

 

No, stop...I cant breath no more.

 

Why? I am experienced console and computer coder for 3 decades now. Why would they EVER

take your word over mine? This is delusional. No one is taking MY word but the word of facts

and figures you refuse to go lookup. Why is that? Because you KNOW you will look stupid after

you do. can't say I blame you. Dream on kido...maybe your dreams will come true....in another

reality, in another dimension....but ...dont hold your breath too long(unless it will shut you up

with your cluelessness.)

 

Ah well, once again your poor arguments left you deadended. As an "expierenced coder" you should have better arguments than this childish postering.

You brag like a broken record.

 

BTW I should release a compilation of your screw ups and egospammings: "Best of Gorfism". We will have a good laugh.

Edited July 30, 2007 by agradeneu

[Michael_]

In the eyes of a Jaguar fan?!

 

I am not nor have I ever been a "fan". (Man, I´m beginning to sound like Spock here)

If anything I consider myself a gamer.

 

Check yor references. Which ones have you played?

 

If it´s a 3D space shooter, I´m pretty sure I´ve had a go at it.

 

BTW I did not deny Battlespheres grandezza compared to other Jaguar games but....

 

I didn´t think you were.

[Gorf]

...and Battlesphere IS nothing special compared to other Space sims on PC or PSX which ARE ultimately superior.

 

It´s the other way around.

Disregarding the technical side of things I´ll chime in from the players POV regarding BattleSphere .

The AI of this game *does* feel superior to most other 3D space shooters I´ve ever played. It´s hard to put your finger on exactly why this is, but it´s definitely there and it *does* simulate pretty well that it´s thinking.

I´ve said it before, but at times it almost feels like you´re playing online with other sentient beings.

 

Whether or not you think that the Jaguar is capable of running a mean AI based on its architecture and innards is beside the point, and if you *are* indeed right, I´d say that Scott LeGrand has performed nothing short of a miracle with what he had to work with.

 

 

In the eyes of a Jaguar fan?!

 

Check yor references. Which ones have you played? BTW I did not deny Battlespheres grandezza compared to other Jaguar games but....

At least take anything Gorf says with a grain of salt, will you?

 

 

No, stop...I cant breath no more.

 

Why? I am experienced console and computer coder for 3 decades now. Why would they EVER

take your word over mine? This is delusional. No one is taking MY word but the word of facts

and figures you refuse to go lookup. Why is that? Because you KNOW you will look stupid after

you do. can't say I blame you. Dream on kido...maybe your dreams will come true....in another

reality, in another dimension....but ...dont hold your breath too long(unless it will shut you up

with your cluelessness.)

 

Ah well, once again your poor arguments left you deadended. As an "expierenced coder" you should have better arguments than this childish postering.

You brag like a broken record.

 

BTW I should release a compilation of your screw ups and egospammings: "Best of Gorfism". We will have a good laugh.

 

 

Any one can edit ones words. Too bad you still haven't done a damn thing to dispute the facts

that were just laid out. You are the only one 'deadended' as you put it. You have nothing to offer

but you opinions and insults. Im still waiting for something of substance from you.

[Gorf]

Well said. But the fact remains that Jaguars 3D applications are primitive in any category. And that makes your facts worthless and your opinion rather optimistic!

 

I dont usually post opinions with out facts and it is of no suprise to me that you find factual

evidence worthless. I expect as much from an armchair console expert like yourself.

 

The lack of an applications does not take away from the facts any more than your useless

opinions giving credit to your completely incorrect claims.

 

 

The whole point is that you promise ppl things you cant fulfill.

 

What did I promise? Show me. I dont think I ever have. The whole point is you want

to sound smart but sounding smart is'nt good enough for us that know better.

 

Your application still uses the Atari renderer and it is not substantially better 3D than any generic Jaguar game released so far.

 

And this still does nothing to help your argument. I've made it clear the limitation and that alone

should tell you there isplenty of power under the hood.However it seems common sense escapes

you ergularly.

 

So what? Will you trip over your very own gigantomanic bullshit?

 

Certainly never by anything you can come up with, that is for sure.

My 'bullshit' is facts that are easily obtainable. I know ...facts are worthless.

 

Besides that, what is your reference in coding?

 

More than you can obviuosly make claim to. My code is being used in lots of places.

Too bad NDA prohibits me from telling you. I'd love to just to shut you up though, really

I would. Somehow I doubt even that will work. You like hearing yourself blab cluelessly

about people with many years of experience using facts and common knowledge, trying to

be revolutionary or whatever it is that drives your constant, factless babbling.

 

 

Did you ever pull off something comparable to a generic PC or PSX game? Did you ever code the PSX? Did you ever pull off complex 3D applications on modern hardware?

 

Yes(Not released yet due to licensing issues.)

 

No(but I know how to interpret official docs, try it sometime)

 

Yes(it's s walk in the park today)

 

Now my turn....

 

Have you ever programmed anything besides your cell phone or calculator?

 

I assure you, as soon as one PSX coder enters this board you will be embarassed by yourself and your false claims.

 

 

Im waiting. and this is your admittance to cluelessness. Maybe now we can get somewhere

with you. Oh and please get me a PSX coder who has both coded for the PSX AND the Jaguar

or Im not interested. I do know such people and they dont have to embarass you. Your doing

a fantastic job of that yourself. They will etll you I am right becasue it is from them I heard it.

Oh, I guess they dont count now either then.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Gorf

[A Sprite]

Gorf, good to see you back.

 

Now, back to the verbal bar fight -

 

Can someone post a close-up of a good Jag texture, compared to the best textures of PSX ( Tobal 2, Metal Gear Solid, Crash Bandicoot: Warped ) N64 ( Rare's work, Rayman 2 ) Saturn ( Nights, Panzer Dragoon Saga ) and 3DO ( Your guess is as good as mine. )?

[Gorf]

Gorf, good to see you back.

 

Now, back to the verbal bar fight -

 

Can someone post a close-up of a good Jag texture, compared to the best textures of PSX ( Tobal 2, Metal Gear Solid, Crash Bandicoot: Warped ) N64 ( Rare's work, Rayman 2 ) Saturn ( Nights, Panzer Dragoon Saga ) and 3DO ( Your guess is as good as mine. )?

 

 

Thanks! Not to disappoint you but I am not here to fight. I cant help it if

someone throws a punch first.

 

pics....

 

I really wish some one would. In fact I really wish you would all actualy play them side by side.

Unless im just blind(and many others as well) Im not seeing what some around here are seeing.

Actually...I can make a movie of HS. The problem is my capture sucks and It wont do it justice.

You gotta play it. You'll hate the frame rate in a few spots(tolerate it in most others) but you will

see the flexibility im talking about with polygons.

 

 

Again, my appologies to all for the ugly stuff. I'd rather be helpful and share my knowledge

than trade insults over what is essentially stupid arguments to begin with.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Gorf

[phuzaxeman]

Gorf, good to see you back.

 

Now, back to the verbal bar fight -

 

Can someone post a close-up of a good Jag texture, compared to the best textures of PSX ( Tobal 2, Metal Gear Solid, Crash Bandicoot: Warped ) N64 ( Rare's work, Rayman 2 ) Saturn ( Nights, Panzer Dragoon Saga ) and 3DO ( Your guess is as good as mine. )?

 

I'd rather be helpful and share my knowledge

than trade insults over what is essentially stupid arguments to begin with.

 

best comment from you gorf....you know a ton of computer tech stuff that everyone can all learn despite our preferences!

[Gorf]

Gorf, good to see you back.

 

Now, back to the verbal bar fight -

 

Can someone post a close-up of a good Jag texture, compared to the best textures of PSX ( Tobal 2, Metal Gear Solid, Crash Bandicoot: Warped ) N64 ( Rare's work, Rayman 2 ) Saturn ( Nights, Panzer Dragoon Saga ) and 3DO ( Your guess is as good as mine. )?

 

I'd rather be helpful and share my knowledge

than trade insults over what is essentially stupid arguments to begin with.

 

best comment from you gorf....you know a ton of computer tech stuff that everyone can all learn despite our preferences!

 

 

Im glad you see it that way. Im not at all picking on anyones favorite system.

Just stating the possibilities and why some things are not as they appear.

 

No system really holds and overwhelming advantage of the other.

They do hold certain advantages one over the other.

 

What would I gain by telling you bullshite? I fail to see the profit in it.

It's not to 'prove' anything. It's to try to honestly answer questions to

the best of my ability. There is plenty I dont know. I can code anything

but typically stick with certain things only.

 

Im really not a coding god despite my 29+ years of experience but I

know the subject and the hardware it runs on pretty well. Game logic

and AI is my job at 3DS in case you we reall wondering. I also do the

3D modeling for whichI wrote my own modeler for. This is to meet the

specific needs of Jaguar, DC, Nuon and a few others. Im no Scott

Le Grand by any means(the guy is a geniuos, no really) but I do pretty

good. The more I do the more I learn. the more I learn the more I tend

to share it.