Ray_A Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I've been away from the Atari scene for some time and boy did things change while I was absent. There were no SIO2PC type interfaces when I was fully into 8 bits. Now that I see all the new hardware projects (by the way that 1200XL laptop proto is awesome!!)) I am excited and want to get my hands dirty again with some hardware mods. My question is about SIO2USB. Is there a schematic available somewhere in the web for me to build one. I know that AtariMax is already selling an interface but my excitement wouldn't be the same unless I've built one myself. (Hope it won't end-up like my 576K upgrade but still I enjoy messing around with hardware ). Any help in locating a schematic for the SIO2USB interface would be greatly appreciated. (I've already searched the forum but I am unable to find what I am looking for) Cheers Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 I've been away from the Atari scene for some time and boy did things change while I was absent. There were no SIO2PC type interfaces when I was fully into 8 bits. Now that I see all the new hardware projects (by the way that 1200XL laptop proto is awesome!!)) I am excited and want to get my hands dirty again with some hardware mods. My question is about SIO2USB. Is there a schematic available somewhere in the web for me to build one. I know that AtariMax is already selling an interface but my excitement wouldn't be the same unless I've built one myself. (Hope it won't end-up like my 576K upgrade but still I enjoy messing around with hardware ). Any help in locating a schematic for the SIO2USB interface would be greatly appreciated. (I've already searched the forum but I am unable to find what I am looking for) Cheers Ray Hi Ray, The device you are naming is officialy not called 'sio2usb' ... The one of Steven Tucker (you told about) is a Sio2PC with USB connector (in stead of RS232) ... the REAL Sio2USB is the one from Frankfurter Devision of Abbuc. This is some kind of Sio2SD but then to boot from USB stick (is cool). The one from atarimax is impossible to build yourself, because it works (I guess) with some kind of micro-controller or flash rom. As long as you don't have the code, you are not able to build it yourself I guess. USB is not better than RS232 for our purpouses, so why not making a rs232 version yourself )) Have fun. Marius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 USB is not better than RS232 for our purpouses, so why not making a rs232 version yourself )) Well, the main reason many people want USB, is simply because many PCs don't have RS232 anymore Also, I'm not sure I'd agree USB is not better. There are many new features in the Sio2PC-USB that are not available in the "classic" version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_A Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hi Marius, you're right it's called an SIO2PC, my mistake!. The reason I want one with the USB connector is to be able to use my laptop which does not have a RS232 port (DB9 or DB25). Even though I have a DB9 to USB converter that I can use on my laptop (bought that so that I can connect my GPS to the laptop), my initial experimentation with the APE for Windows (trial version) ended up in problems. APE does not seem to work well with that converter (as it is not a real RS232 port). I am getting an error message that says "Can not get COM1 base address" (or something similar to that). I thought an SIO2PC with a USB connector would work fine since APE supports it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_A Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) USB is not better than RS232 for our purpouses, so why not making a rs232 version yourself )) Well, the main reason many people want USB, is simply because many PCs don't have RS232 anymore Also, I'm not sure I'd agree USB is not better. There are many new features in the Sio2PC-USB that are not available in the "classic" version. Guess I have to read the whole thread before answering to avoid repeats but yes, especially laptops don't have RS232 for a long while now. Edited August 18, 2007 by Ray_A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_A Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hmm, if there's a EEPROM with propriatery code in the hardware design, then it's close to impossible to build one unless I have a copy of the code and a burner. Which I don't. Maybe I'll stick with the RS232 version and perhaps use the original SIO2PC software which doesn't seem to have the same problem with my DB9 to USB cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Hmm, if there's a EEPROM with propriatery code in the hardware design, then it's close to impossible to build one unless I have a copy of the code and a burner. Which I don't. Maybe I'll stick with the RS232 version and perhaps use the original SIO2PC software which doesn't seem to have the same problem with my DB9 to USB cable. APE won't run with your converter? I'm asking because APE (for Windows) has sooo many more features than original SIO2PC. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_A Posted August 19, 2007 Author Share Posted August 19, 2007 Hmm, if there's a EEPROM with propriatery code in the hardware design, then it's close to impossible to build one unless I have a copy of the code and a burner. Which I don't. Maybe I'll stick with the RS232 version and perhaps use the original SIO2PC software which doesn't seem to have the same problem with my DB9 to USB cable. APE won't run with your converter? I'm asking because APE (for Windows) has sooo many more features than original SIO2PC. -Larry Well I tried APE without a SIO2PC connected to the converter just to see the software run. The program starts on my laptop but gives me an error about COM1 (this is the port emulated by the converter, not a real RS232 port), something like "Can not get the base address for COM1". It does not have this problem when I run it on a desktop PC which has a real RS232 connector. So I assume APE is not compatible with RS232 to USB type interfaces (or maybe just with mine!). Same thing happened on both VISTA and Windows XP (I have a dual boot laptop). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Well I tried APE without a SIO2PC connected to the converter just to see the software run. The program starts on my laptop but gives me an error about COM1 (this is the port emulated by the converter, not a real RS232 port), something like "Can not get the base address for COM1". It does not have this problem when I run it on a desktop PC which has a real RS232 connector. So I assume APE is not compatible with RS232 to USB type interfaces (or maybe just with mine!). Same thing happened on both VISTA and Windows XP (I have a dual boot laptop). I read through some of the threads at the Atarimax forums, and evidently that is a common problem with those adapters. But SIO2PC does work with the adapter? In that case, did you try the DOS version of APE? Much less full-featured, but still more useful than SIO2PC (IMO). I know nothing about Vista, but I believe I remember that it runs under XP in the "DOS" window. Here's a thread that talks about the subject of USB to 232 adapters: http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum/viewtopic.php?t=447 -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijor Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 Well I tried APE without a SIO2PC connected to the converter just to see the software run. The program starts on my laptop but gives me an error about COM1 (this is the port emulated by the converter, not a real RS232 port), something like "Can not get the base address for COM1". APE has its own kernel driver that goes directly to the hardware. It won't work with any kind of "virtual" COM port. It is possible to use an USB-Serial converter with the old DOS version (under Windows) though. I don't know whow reliable it is, but some people here had good results. Conceivable it should be possible to use the Windows version on a VM, such as Vmware. Note that some laptops still do come with a serial port. This is just for the records, I know you are not going to change your laptop You can also use a serial PC card. This is probably also just for the records, because those cards are usually too expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hello, the finished SIO2USB has been released last weekend on the ABBUC JHV. Below you see pictures of the packaging and the final device. The pictures have been made by Bernd and posted in the ABBUC Forum. The dark Spot on the last picture is a fingerprint and _not_ on the original device Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Now to answer the question: "Where is the schematics, where is the source?". This is a sad story. From the beginning of the project in 2003, I (Carsten) was thinking that we initially had decided in the team that we will release the SIO2USB to the public, as we have done before with other projects (like the USB Cart). During the preparation for the launch in early summer this year, it became clear that that believe was only in _my_ brain, and that other team members would like to keep the SIO2USB closed for various reasons. I must say that we had heated debates about this, and that the team was on the edge to break apart at one point of time. But despite the different views on the benefits of Open Source, I decided to respect the decision of the other team members to help to finish this nice device and to save the countless hours of work that have gone into this device from all of us. We will publish some pictures and figures on the last development process a little bit later. As a compromise the team has agreed to put the schematics and source into the hands of a depositary (ABBUC manging board), so that if at any point of time the original team will abandon the project and will not release new fixes/new versions, the documents/source and schematics will be released to the public to prevent that the know-how will be lost. Also the team agreed to decide on giving out information to single developers. That will be decided on a per person basis. The Team of ABBUC-RAF will continue to provide bug-fixes to the SIO2USB Firmware. Everything I (Carsten) will release for the SIO2USB will be Open Source, but that will not contain the internal Firmware or Hardware Schematics and only the public API. I have to apologize for my (false, misleading) announcements before, I had a different picture in my head that the other team members had. I ask the AtariAge community to respect the teams decision, even if not everyone might think the same. The lesson for me is to clarify this kind of questions without doubt from the beginning. Carsten 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Congratulations, it looks like a very nice, professional product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Hello, the finished SIO2USB has been released last weekend on the ABBUC JHV. Below you see pictures of the packaging and the final device. The pictures have been made by Bernd and posted in the ABBUC Forum. The dark Spot on the last picture is a fingerprint and _not_ on the original device Very nice! Is the item available for purchase? tjb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Jesus...the pics look professional and good! I just preordered my one so i can get rid off my old laptop as sio2pc server finally... and yes...the first devices were sold last week at the ABBUC meeting. This device would be a nice addition to Atariage store... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) Very nice! Is the item available for purchase? tjb Yes, pre-order for the 2nd production run is available at http://home.arcor.de/grasel/restarte.htm (see SIO2USB Preorder) Because production is expensive for the team (we do not make any money from it, the price is the pure material costs, the investment for one lot of 50pc is about 7000 Euro), we first collect the preorders, then we calculate the final price, and then we order the raw materials. Carsten P.S.: The preorder for the 2nd production run will close at 2nd november 2007. We don't know if there will be a 3rd production run, because the USB Controller used is not available anymore. Edited October 30, 2007 by cas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classics Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Nice work on the packaging and other details! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjb Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Yes, pre-order for the 2nd production run is available athttp://home.arcor.de/grasel/restarte.htm (see SIO2USB Preorder) Because production is expensive for the team (we do not make any money from it, the price is the pure material costs, the investment for one lot of 50pc is about 7000 Euro), we first collect the preorders, then we calculate the final price, and then we order the raw materials. Carsten P.S.: The preorder for the 2nd production run will close at 2nd november 2007. We don't know if there will be a 3rd production run, because the USB Controller used is not available anymore. Thanks for the info! I just placed a pre-order. I don't want to miss out on this one. tjb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 They are pricey but I pulled the trigger on my preorder - damn the packaging looks sweet - cant wait to try it and get rid of my slave SIO2PC PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 the shrinked wrapped packaging is the killer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Wow that looks really nicely produced - great job! It's too bad the the dollar is so low though, the price is going to be quite high in USD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 This intrigues me.... what does it do that sio2sd can't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 This intrigues me.... what does it do that sio2sd can't? Based on the website info, not much as far as I can see. I'd say the main difference is that this is a 'professional retail' level production, and that it obviously takes a USB drive instead of SD. It also has a larger (4 line) display and RTC but I'm not sure of the functionality of that to the A8. SIO2SD supports more drives (4), has a bootable config interface available on the A8, and also directly supports .exe loading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeventura Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 It's a beautiful device and I would love to have one but at $172-$201 (Euro=$1.44) each I can buy two SIO2SD devices There is no reason to sell them with Flash drives/USB thumb drives so perhaps that could lower the price and something like this while well thought out and packaged beautifully, perhaps a version without the package and the case? For many anything above $100 USD is a pain point. Again its a beauty and absolute best of luck with it!!!! Perhaps when the price comes down...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 It's a beautiful device and I would love to have one but at $172-$201 (Euro=$1.44) each I can buy two SIO2SD devices There is no reason to sell them with Flash drives/USB thumb drives so perhaps that could lower the price and something like this while well thought out and packaged beautifully, perhaps a version without the package and the case? For many anything above $100 USD is a pain point. Again its a beauty and absolute best of luck with it!!!! Perhaps when the price comes down...... Heh. The advantages should be obvious. SIO2SD uses ONE type of media.. SD cards.. (or whatever you can adapt to that standard). The SIO2USB can use ANY medium that follows the USB-MASS-STORAGE standard.. EG.. Flashdrives, extrernal USB hardisks, DIGITAL CAMERAS! etc.. If you ask me, its well worth the $200.00 or so that they are asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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