HELP! Information on Red Sea Crossing?

[nagn2]

Ok, I have had a week now to think this whole thing through. Here is how I view it and what my intentions are at this point I have not hidden the fact that I am a buyer and seller of things. I am not an Atari collector and have learned more that I could ever have imagined about Atari in the past week.

 

1) What would be my motivation for opening the cartridge and taking pictures?

 

Apparently it would only be to "try" to prove to the doubters that this is real. Apparently there will still be doubt even if I do. So, why would I risk ruining the label or breaking the cart just to try to prove myself to the doubters? I don't have to open it to prove to myself it is real..I know it is. I would have to believe none of these doubters have any intentions of putting their money where there mouth is anyway. Someone could probably find an original ad that Steve said was placed in a few religious magazines and I guarantee there would still be some conspiracy theorists claiming it is still a hoax. If a serious buyer was willing to come forward and make an offer with the contingency of opening it, I would understand why they want it done.

 

2) What is my risk by holding on to the cart?

 

A few people think I should sell it and pass the risk on to someone else. Why would I do that? Whoever buys it is figuring one of the risks is finding out it is not real. I can rule that risk out because I know it is. So then what is my true risk?

 

First of all, I can replace what I paid for it by simply turning over my couch cushions and finding some spare change. I am also going to sell Music Machine that I bought with this and will be several hundreds dollars ahead on both. So I have no investment on the line...I can't lose any money on this deal.

 

Second, the only thing that can hurt the value is if Steve has more stashed away somewhere. I have given this careful consideration and I love my odds (I am a gambler at heart anyway). Here is why:

 

1. What are the odds he kept any of these after 25 years, especially if he has already said he can't understand why anbody wants this and he considers it outdated technology? Of course the posibilty does exist that he did keep them but I like my odds on this anyway. So lets say he did keep them.

 

2. If he did keep them what it going to motivate him to go searching? He already has stated that he is a business man and it would take serious money to make him get involved with an Atari cartridge. Who is going to put big money on the line? What are they going to offer him...$1000 for every cart he can find? What if he does have 200 left? They obviously wouldn't be worth $1000 each. I also think Steve is smart enough not to just go looking based on somebody's word that they will buy them. Well, let's say he is persuaded to go looking, then what?

 

3. Will he be able to find them? It's been 25 years and up to now this game has not entered his thoughts. How much time and money would it cost him to figure out where they are? He did mention to me that the only other person involved was a cousin who put some money in and did the advertising in the magazines. So are they in his cousin's possession? If so, did he get rid of them? Are they in Steve's possession? If so, are they in a storage unit, in California or in Florida? Are they in his parents attic? And so on the list can go. I love the odds on this one!

 

 

So as a business man/gambler, who has no investment on the line, I LOVE these odds! I think the risk/reward is so in my favor I would be crazy to just get rid of it. Even if the 3 scenarios play out against me, then what? I just don't make as much as I could have? I am still way ahead! The bottom line is I am a business man looking to get the most out of this as I can. I'm just going to be honest. If anybody thinks I have an agenda, well there it is upfront!

 

To wrap it up, I doubt he kept them, if he did I doubt he will be persuaded to look, and if he is I doubt he will be able to find them. If I am wrong I can accept the fact that I took a calculated risk and lost. Just to reiterate I LOVE these odds!

Edited September 24, 2007 by nagn2

[+Psionic]

Well said, Nathan, Well said.

[potatohead]

And there it is. Now we know the worth equation, and whether or not it makes sense to open the cart. (it clearly doesn't)

 

Well stated, and a solid choice IMHO. Really, my reason for posting was to cool the jets on the nay-sayers and those working any angle to get that cart opened, etc... Bruce is absolutely spot on in that a backup is just fine. Totally legal, just not for distribution.

 

Hope your gamble pays off. After reading your analysis, I think you are in good shape too.

 

So now we sit back and see what unfolds, and the matter of legit or not is more or less put to rest at this point.

 

Oh, and I would not have set a $150 reserve. Way too cheap, IMHO. Cheap enough to not resolve anything. I was thinking $1k for starters.

 

I personally would hold it as well. You are right, odds are good. I sensed some risk aversion from your posts. Bad read on my part.

Edited September 24, 2007 by potatohead

[Rom Hunter]

Oh, and I would not have set a $150 reserve. Way too cheap, IMHO. Cheap enough to not resolve anything. I was thinking $1k for starters.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

Wise decision, Nagn2.

 

Leave the cart undamaged, let the buyers take your word for it that it's genuine and let the bid money raise.

 

Good luck!

 

[+Random Terrain]

Leave the cart undamaged, let the buyers take your word for it that it's genuine and let the bid money raise.

Just don't wait too long. Collectors who care about Atari 2600 games are getting old and could die at any moment. And if things become really bad within the next couple of years, nobody will be collecting anything except for things like food and water.

[+Psionic]

And if things become really bad within the next couple of years, nobody will be collecting anything except for things like food and water.

...or conspiracy theories! LOL

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Just don't wait too long. Collectors who care about Atari 2600 games are getting old and could die at any moment.

Especially due to the ever increasing suspense.

[nagn2]

Oh, and I would not have set a $150 reserve. Way too cheap, IMHO. Cheap enough to not resolve anything. I was thinking $1k for starters.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

Wise decision, Nagn2.

 

Leave the cart undamaged, let the buyers take your word for it that it's genuine and let the bid money raise.

 

Good luck!

 

 

I really don't think it is a point of even just "taking my word for it". I think the way it has unfolded should leave no doubt, either way it doesn't matter to me, I know it is true.

 

One follow up to my last post. To this point I have had no serious offers, so I am not risking losing an offer at this point by holding out. Obviously if I do get an offer I have to then weigh the risk of holding out for more hoping that the scenario works out in my favor. At this point I am no going to try to figure out what amount is too much risk for me to pass up. I also understand that a serious buyer may not want to offer a large sum at this point if there is a risk more cartridges will come to light. He has to figure out what dollar figure is worth the risk for him. Obviously only time will play this out. If none come to light after 6 months, 1 year or even 3 years then the risk of them coming out of the closet will be less than the risk this early in the game. I think the risk diminshes with each year. I have no problem waiting. A few guys have compared this to Birthday Mania, which some people gave me the story behind. From what I understand about 300 were known to be made (if I am wrong please correct me) so obviously there is a risk that someone could have a stash of carts packed away. But what are the odds they will ever see the light of day. That is just my gut feeling on this. Again only time will tell.

[+Propane13]

So as a business man/gambler, who has no investment on the line, I LOVE these odds! I think the risk/reward is so in my favor I would be crazy to just get rid of it. Even if the 3 scenarios play out against me, then what? I just don't make as much as I could have? I am still way ahead! The bottom line is I am a business man looking to get the most out of this as I can. I'm just going to be honest. If anybody thinks I have an agenda, well there it is upfront!

 

So... I'm confused here. This sounds like you're not going to do an auction just yet. And that's totally cool.

But, you're hold onto it to wait for.... what exactly? Curious as to what your "next step" is.

 

(Edit) Never mind; guess I posted about 3 minutes too late. Your previous post says it all.

Guess we need to wait to see what people offer you. Are you considering ebay? Or, are you going to wait for people on this site to send you PM's as offers?

 

Thanks!

-John

Edited September 24, 2007 by Propane13

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I think the risk diminshes with each year.

Well, if Steve doesn't search for the carts soon, he will never do it. So you don't have to wait very long.

 

I have no problem waiting.

I would be lying if I agreed here. But PLEASE, make sure to dump the ROM soon. The risk of bit root is constantly increasing, especially because we don't know if there might be an EPROM inside the cart.

 

BTW: Would weighing the cart help do find out if it is an EPROM?

[nagn2]

I think the risk diminshes with each year.

Well, if Steve doesn't search for the carts soon, he will never do it. So you don't have to wait very long.

 

I have no problem waiting.

I would be lying if I agreed here. But PLEASE, make sure to dump the ROM soon. The risk of bit root is constantly increasing, especially because we don't know if there might be an EPROM inside the cart.

 

BTW: Would weighing the cart help do find out if it is an EPROM?

 

If I have the ROM dumped, won't that information then be in somebody else's possession? Couldn't they then do whatever they wanted with the information, like make repros? Please explain to me if I am wrong, I still don't have a complete handle on dumping.

Edited September 24, 2007 by nagn2

[nagn2]

So as a business man/gambler, who has no investment on the line, I LOVE these odds! I think the risk/reward is so in my favor I would be crazy to just get rid of it. Even if the 3 scenarios play out against me, then what? I just don't make as much as I could have? I am still way ahead! The bottom line is I am a business man looking to get the most out of this as I can. I'm just going to be honest. If anybody thinks I have an agenda, well there it is upfront!

 

So... I'm confused here. This sounds like you're not going to do an auction just yet. And that's totally cool.

But, you're hold onto it to wait for.... what exactly? Curious as to what your "next step" is.

 

(Edit) Never mind; guess I posted about 3 minutes too late. Your previous post says it all.

Guess we need to wait to see what people offer you. Are you considering ebay? Or, are you going to wait for people on this site to send you PM's as offers?

 

Thanks!

-John

 

I am not going to auction it off or offer it on Ebay. I will consider personal offers (but like I said I have to consider the risk/reward of waiting) and if they want it contingent upon having it opened or something else then that is something we can try to work out if I am interested in their offer.

[+Propane13]

I think the risk diminshes with each year.

Well, if Steve doesn't search for the carts soon, he will never do it. So you don't have to wait very long.

 

I have no problem waiting.

I would be lying if I agreed here. But PLEASE, make sure to dump the ROM soon. The risk of bit root is constantly increasing, especially because we don't know if there might be an EPROM inside the cart.

 

BTW: Would weighing the cart help do find out if it is an EPROM?

 

If I have the ROM dumped, won't that infomration then be in somebody else's possession? Couldn't they then do whatever they wanted with the information, like make repros? Please explain to me if I am wrong, I still don't have a complete handle on dumping.

 

Yes, but there are a few very-very-very-reliable people here that are here that keep the backups safe and do not distribute/make repros. The people on this list can vouch for people that would be honorable in this effort.

 

Tempest (www.atariprotos.com) is a guy that has many, many, many times had prototypes dumped for programmers, and holds them safely for "backup". They have never made it out to the community in any form without the programmer's consent first, even if it takes YEARS. And for some, he has never gotten permission, and still does not distribute, no matter how much flak he gets from people on this message board. Needless to say, he's very trustworthy.

 

And, Thomas Jentzch is another guy you can count on-- he would not distrinbute anything without consent; he would just take a look at the code, verify originality (restoring confidence), and that would be it (i.e. he would not distribute). I think this would give you a lot higher bid for your cart.

 

Of course, the wrong people could always be punks. I'd say, ask the board for advice on reputable people. A lot have done this before, and are very professional.

 

-John

[Thomas Jentzsch]

If I have the ROM dumped, won't that information then be in somebody else's possession? Couldn't they then do whatever they wanted with the information, like make repros?

Depends on how you handle it.

 

If you dump the ROM with someone elses help, you can make sure he doesn't get a copy. Or you trust a single person and let him dump the ROM.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Thomas Jentzsch

[nagn2]

If I have the ROM dumped, won't that information then be in somebody else's possession? Couldn't they then do whatever they wanted with the information, like make repros?

Depends on how you handle it.

 

If you dump the ROM with someone elses help, you can make sure he doesn't get a copy. Or you trust a single person and let him dump the ROM.

 

 

How do I make sure they do not get a copy if I have someone help? Is dumping something I would be able to do on my own...someone very computer illiterate? Is there any chance dumping the ROM can damage the game?

[Rom Hunter]

If I have the ROM dumped, won't that information then be in somebody else's possession? Couldn't they then do whatever they wanted with the information, like make repros?

Depends on how you handle it.

 

If you dump the ROM with someone elses help, you can make sure he doesn't get a copy. Or you trust a single person and let him dump the ROM.

 

 

How do I make sure they do not get a copy if I have someone help? Is dumping something I would be able to do on my own...someone very computer illiterate? Is there any chance dumping the ROM can damage the game?

No, it's safe.

 

But to be sure that you are the only one who will get the .bin, it's best to do it at your place or let someone do it for you who can 100% be trusted (like Tempest).

 

Edited September 24, 2007 by Rom Hunter

[Rick Weis]

just wondering here... what IF someone offered you a price that you liked for the cart, how would you want the payment made? would pay pal by credit card be ok?

 

Rick

[2600 Forever]

But, you're hold onto it to wait for.... what exactly? Curious as to what your "next step" is.

 

Bit-rot! There is 100% guaranteed an EPROM inside that cart.

[PressureCooker2600]

Well...if there were bit-rot.....the game would not have booted up.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Well...if there were bit-rot.....the game would not have booted up.

Depends on which part of the ROM is affected.

 

And the longer we wait, the more likely fatal bit-rot becomes.

[nagn2]

just wondering here... what IF someone offered you a price that you liked for the cart, how would you want the payment made? would pay pal by credit card be ok?

 

Rick

 

I do have a Paypal account. I will work out the details with the buyer if and when it comes to that point.

[rolenta]

nagn2,

 

For curiosity's sake, could you take a picture of the Music Machine and Red Sea Crossing together?

[SINGLE TOOTH]

nagn2,

 

For curiosity's sake, could you take a picture of the Music Machine and Red Sea Crossing together?

 

Mee too

[nagn2]

nagn2,

 

For curiosity's sake, could you take a picture of the Music Machine and Red Sea Crossing together?

 

Here you go!

 

 

[rolenta]

Here you go!

 

Thanks,

 

The level of wear between the carts is somewhat comparable; something you'd expect from two carts that were originally bought around the same time and probably stored together for 24 or so years.

 

One question I still have is how these were sold. They had to be in some kind of box. Who would buy new carts without any documentation or box (on the other hand if people are buying from a religious store they probably have faith in the game). And what did these sell for - wholesale and retail?