Anybody completely switch to emulation and not look back?

[+Random Terrain]

With actual hardware, you hook it up and play it. You don't have to set up the video and audio, or upgrade your computer with expensive new stuff and risk upsetting everything else on it. You plug a few things into your old TV, and when you're done you unplug 'em and store 'em. Simple.

Yeah, I had to buy a $50,000 computer and read a 300 page manual before Stella would work!

 

I don't know about other emulators, but Stella is pretty darn easy to use.

[GameboyReviewer]

classic vcs all the way, i play it on an old sanyo tubed tv, lol i'm talking early 90's

[potatohead]

I like the real hardware.

 

Emulation is great fun though. I regularly play things on emulators. They are a godsend for the home brew scene too. People can develop, play test and share with few hassles.

 

(we need more Croc type carts!)

 

The thing about real hardware is just the whole experience. It's great to have the machine and see it do it's thing and share that. No emulator really goes there. Plus, if you like doing some electronics, the real deal is lots of fun.

 

So, no. I've not switched and not looked back. Not sure I ever will, unless real hardware is not available. In that case, I'll probably move to something that is available, like micros or something.

[carmel_andrews]

I think that if people did there research into the whole emulation and classic gaming thing, they'd find that it was emulation that initially drove the interest in retro gaming/classic gaming market

 

Not only that, emulators have actually increased the interest in developing new software and games for our systems, without emulation, i think the market for classic or retro gaming/computing ewould be a lot smaller (user/owner wise)

 

Also, you try filling 2-3 thousand physical game carts (2600 etc) into the same space as 2-3 thousand emulator images of the same carts on a pc hard drive, not only does it take up less space, it's more convenient and bearing in mind that peeps here are interested in more then one system, it's also a question of desk space to fit the various machines on, no such issues with emulators you can play multiple emulators from the same pc, mac or gaming system (as long asd you have game images to play with)

 

yes, i accept it is nice to play the same game on physical hardware and using an atari compatible joystick but bearing in mind that some games (or quite a few games) are becoming harder to get hold of, you can play the same game on an emulator without waiting months to trying to actually buy it and ofcourse emulators give you the chance to play the games you never actually physically owned way back when (or play games you don't even own now)

 

And for some people emulation is the only solution, in that it's cheaper and less space to get into emulation then to go out there and buy the hardware and also the software/games (as well as to looking after it, repairing and servicing it...something you don't have to do with an emulator...apart from that emulator being improved so as to emulating that machine/system being emulated more precisely/accurately)

 

And anyway, most of the 'popular' or successful emulators pretty much emulate the emulated systems etc to about 99.99 percent accuracy...are you really going to complain about the .01 percent non accuracy....i don't think so

Edited April 13, 2009 by carmel_andrews

[Keatah]

somebody wrote--

 

Then, consider the games. Obviously, you can pick out examples like Space Invaders 2 or Asteroids where it would be plain as day that you're running emulation. But what about more simplistic games like Pac-Man? Would someone really beable to tell? What advanced characteristics does it have that could possibly be distinguishable?

 

 

 

I say--

 

The code and timing is pretty much spot-on. But, the distinguishing characteristics have to do with the monitor refresh rates, crt phosphor masking, dot shape, color saturation and bleed, random electronic noise, less than perfect sound (hissing and electrical noise), crt burn-in, crt phosphor persistence.

 

The only emulator I know that does a halfway decent job of emulating the 'crappy fuzzy output' of an old crt is the Atari 800 2.1.0 windsl emu. This is great! And If mame would pick up SDL for doing a low-quality crt then we'd all be a huge step closer to the arcade experience.

 

You have got to see the noisy ntsc scanlines, the artifacting, the blurriness. Mame doesn't even come close..! And stella is too sterile too!

Edited April 13, 2009 by Keatah

[Ransom]

I think that if people did there research into the whole emulation and classic gaming thing, they'd find that it was emulation that initially drove the interest in retro gaming/classic gaming market

 

That was true in my case.

 

Although I'd already gone through a first retro phase from 1990 to 1997 or so, my second phase began several years ago when I discovered emulation. Stella was my first. From there I found a whole bunch of others. I even bought a Stelladaptor and various Smart Joys, then wrote a program to organize my console roms and another to autodetect which controller I had hooked up and reconfigure MAME appropriately on the fly. Life was good.

 

The only problem I had was that I couldn't find a good emulator for the Intellivision. And even if I could, how would I hook up a real Intellivision (II or Sears) controller? I couldn't find anything like the Smart Joy for that.

 

But I really wanted to play some of the old Intellivision games that I'd enjoyed in the early 80s when a friend and I had temporarily swapped my 2600 and games for his Intellivision and games.

 

So, eventually, I bought a real Intellivision and some games from 4Jays.

 

From there, I began branching out, slowly recovering all the systems I've owned over the years. These days, I only use emulation to decide whether a game is worth buying, and to play ColecoVision games.

 

But that doesn't change the fact I was led back to classic gaming by emulation.

[Recycled]

wow. Not too often I see one my old threads reanimated.

 

Still haven't emulated.

[Tom-Lynx]

I own hardware and games for every system I play, but I must admit, for the older consoles, the hardware is usually boxed up and the emulation is used.

 

We have a 52" LCD television in the main living room running Vista Media Center, and it is the true home entertainment center machine. I have about 250 DVDs ripped and I have wireless controllers hooked up to play MAME, Stella, Virtual Coleco, some PC games, etc.

 

There is no way I can get the actual hardware into the main living room while satisfying the WAF (Wife Approval Factor) at the same time.

 

So we have a PC, the cable box, and the Wii. The rest is the wireless controller and a wireless PC keyboard.

 

Any you know what? It works great.... I can put my feet up and use a controller that is much better than the original Atari joystick, switch between games without moving my arse an inch, and turn it off and switch back to cable using the remote control. While all at the same time getting a picture that is BETTER than what the original hardware would be able to supply on a 52" LCD TV.

[Herbarius]

Ookay, so I quite regularly play emulators, because I like a lot of old games. However, I never owned a Nintendo console or a Sega. Of course I played it with friends, but in my own personal experience I don't really feel the difference, I've got a simple but nice Thrustmaster gamepad which is IMO a worthy replacement for any 16-bit console controller. So NES/SNES/Sega-Games: Emulator. No regrets at all.

 

I also use DOSbox to play old DOS games... Propably there would be very few people to tell they would rather hook up an old 486 PC next to their normal one to play those games... That's a weird case, since I'm playing PC games on a PC - but games for an early 90s PC on a modern PC via Emulation.

 

Lets get to the "real hardware" I actually own. I've got an Atari 2600 and a Commodore 64.

Instead of playing the real C64 I actually prefer to use an emulator. Just for the sake of convenience, especially because of the very long LOAD TIMES on the real thing. Of course from time to time I'll play the real one, but I wouldn't consider to have it hooked up to the TV permanently.

 

Contrast to all this stuff I play with the emulator and don't miss anything: the Atari. Emulated I just find it dull, the games don't deliver the proper feeling, they appear crude... yeah, you could say they ARE crude, but on the real hardware that just feels right. On the PC it feels... I can't really tell why, to me the games appear a whole magnitude more primitive on the PC... So for the Atari 2600 I definitely prefer the real hardware, although to try out games I don't own as a cartridge I'll use Stella. However, thats just that: Trying them out. I don't really get the feeling I'm actually "playing the game", I'm just testing it...

Edited April 13, 2009 by Herbarius

[+save2600]

Emulation is great to test out a game before purchase, but that's where the value stops for me.

[eyg2181]

the only thing emulation is good for is to play a game before you buy it. And for playing air raid. Great game, too bad it costs 2g's

[Keatah]

For all the folks complaining that emulation doesn't deliver the real experience, exactly what is the seemingly ineffable quality that is lost? Is it the physical presence of the old hardware and processor? Knowing you got a 1mhz cpu plugging away? The noise of the cart when you stuff it in the machine? The smell and feel of the old plastics? What *IS* it?

[Artlover]

For all the folks complaining that emulation doesn't deliver the real experience, exactly what is the seemingly ineffable quality that is lost? Is it the physical presence of the old hardware and processor? Knowing you got a 1mhz cpu plugging away? The noise of the cart when you stuff it in the machine? The smell and feel of the old plastics? What *IS* it?

I dunno. For some people, playing the game itself isn't enough to allow them to re-live their childhood. Some just seem to need that tactile experience of holding a cart, blowing in it, popping it in and out a dozen times to get it to work, jiggiling the rf cable just right so the picture is clear and so on. Apparently, that's part of the fun or something.

 

Myself, I'd rather spend that time actually playing the games instead, but oh well. To each their own.

[Ransom]

For all the folks complaining that emulation doesn't deliver the real experience, exactly what is the seemingly ineffable quality that is lost? Is it the physical presence of the old hardware and processor? Knowing you got a 1mhz cpu plugging away? The noise of the cart when you stuff it in the machine? The smell and feel of the old plastics? What *IS* it?

 

It's the experience of getting the box off the shelf, opening it up, pulling the cart out, perhaps looking through the instruction booklet and examining the matrix to decide which variant to play. It's putting the cart into the machine with a solid *chunk* sound.

 

But it's also the ease of flipping physical switches vs. remembering which F key does the same. And using driving controllers with Indy 500. Not to mention real Intellivision, Atari 5200, and ColecoVision controllers with those systems (love 'em or hate 'em, it's impossible to get the true experience without using the real controllers).

 

And, yes, at least half of the appeal is pure nostalgia. Playing the game in emulation is fine. But nothing takes me back like the real thing -- console, controller, cart, box, manual, and all.

[AtariLeaf]

For me I like the "try before you buy" aspect of emulation. For example I've been getting back into TG-16 collecting but some of the games are kind of expensive. So I download the rom and play the game on my computer with a controller pad to see if I think its worth buying or not. After all is said and done I delete the roms of games I don't like and keep the ones I have the actual cart (or card in this case). I love Galaga 90, Blazing Lazers and Alien Crush for example and if I just want a quick game I'll use the emulator but if I'm having friends over and I want to show off the system, I use the actual hardware. Depends on the situation but they both have a place in the gaming world.

[NE146]

For all the folks complaining that emulation doesn't deliver the real experience, exactly what is the seemingly ineffable quality that is lost? Is it the physical presence of the old hardware and processor? Knowing you got a 1mhz cpu plugging away? The noise of the cart when you stuff it in the machine? The smell and feel of the old plastics? What *IS* it?

 

Consoles.. I don't know. It's very arguable whether or not emulation has any major noticeable differences to the real deal as we can see here in this thread

 

Arcade though.. it's no comparison. The emu'd versions simply cannot compare to the real thing simply because of the hardware (of all sorts), especially in the pre-JAMMA era games.

[Keatah]

Ok, good enough. To answer the original author's posting, It is 100% emulation for me. I've grown too accustomed to the convenience and variety and reliability of emulated systems. having 800cu ft of original apple][ stuff is enough for me!!

[+save2600]

Why I like playing the real thing vs. an emulator:

 

1) feel & playability of a real controller in your hand, not a Gravis, Logitech or whatever. ALL PC joypads suck

and are especially horrible when it comes to the direction pad for arcade type games. You could argue that

you've got the Stelladapter, which I have and that DOES help, but...

 

2) viewing on LCD vs. CRT or television. Again, taking away from the originally intended experience. Older games

were not designed for progressive scan and modern LCD's period. Programmers purposely used the NTSC standard to

their advantage when designing most of these games. Brilliant talent and work that is all but lost on an LCD. I want to

see a multi-coloured player/missle sprite zoom across at blazing speed as the trailing of the phosphors softly illuminate

the ghost of its wake. Say, that was kind of poetic!

 

3) Playability plain and simple. Real hardware = real playing experience without strange video emulator artifacts (especially on a PeeCee),

slowdown issues, goofy framerates and refresh rates, chunky LCD draw speeds, sound issues and CPU timing issues in general.

 

4) intrinsic "feel" of ownership as others have mentioned. I'm talking about a centred sense of value too. Nostalgic also of course

to have carts, manuals and boxes - which the marketing back then was the #1 reason we all fell in love or were attracted to in the

first place.

 

...and I agree with -ranson- about physically looking at your collection, while wondering what to play. Same is true for LP's,

CD's, 8-Tracks, Cassettes, books and anything else that takes on a physical form. When you've got company over and they see

your record or book collection, that should foster some extrapolative thought and stimulate a conversation. Two very important

things lacking in much of today's younger society.

Edited April 13, 2009 by save2600

[+save2600]

I dunno. For some people, playing the game itself isn't enough to allow them to re-live their childhood. Some just seem to need that tactile experience of holding a cart, blowing in it, popping it in and out a dozen times to get it to work, jiggiling the rf cable just right so the picture is clear and so on. Apparently, that's part of the fun or something.

 

Myself, I'd rather spend that time actually playing the games instead, but oh well. To each their own.

 

The practice of "blowing into carts" is something a desperate and clueless NES generation, in their finite wisdom, thinking they

were savvy would do. Moisture from your breath would momentarily cause better conductivity, but in reality, oxidised the edge

connectors even faster - rendering most games too corroded to play before too long. Never have I seen as many bad Atari or any

other cartridge based games as I have Nintenblo. Like people not taking care of their LP's and then wondering why they sounded

all scratchy after a while. If people would have maintained and took better care of their stuff in the first place, they wouldn't have

had anywhere near the amount of trouble they did.

 

And if the RF cable or its receptacle got loose, it was because your bratty sibling and/or dogs tripped over the damn wire while

you were trying to save the girl! lol

[user42]

I am almost 100% emulation now (as I think I mentioned a couple years ago in this thread).

 

I keep seeing the "real hardware crowd" complain that emulation lacks the real joystick experience, but if you buy a few adaptors you can use the real joysticks on the PC.

I have many...

 

Stelladaptor - Atari 2600

2 more 9-pin adaptors - Atari 2600 + Sega Master system

USB nes 4-Score - NES

3 Adaptiods - N64

2 USB Saturn pads (from Japan) - Great for Genesis + Sega CD + Saturn

2 PS1 adaptors - PS1

 

I still need to get a SNES adaptor and mabey someting for Colecovision and Intellivision (if they exist).

 

As for the old TV feeling, if you have a video capture card with video out you could run the video to an old CTR and you could relive the good old fuzzy days....

 

 

Also @Ransom, who mentioned

 

....getting the box off the shelf, opening it up, pulling the cart out, perhaps looking through the instruction booklet and examining the matrix to decide which variant to play.

 

I have my emulators set up with Box, Cart and Manual scans. The only thing missing is that I can only look, not touch.

[Keatah]

it's the same with women, looking but not touching will keep you out of trouble. Like with the boxes and paper manuals, everytime you handle them they get worn out just a little till wrinkles develop and that new freshly-minted smell turns stale, sometimes rotten. Emulation doesn't suffer from aging!

[akator]

Emulation got me through my classic gaming fix when I was in my 20s and didn't have room or money for collecting the real things.

 

These days I waste enormous amounts of our expendable income to own old crap that I once owned or wish that I had.

 

In a few years I will get tired of the extra insurance, storage, and everything else required to own all of the original stuff. There are already some days that has happened. I look around at all of the consoles, computers, games, and software wondering if the investment has been worth it. On those days, I'm tempted to sell it all off and switch back to emulation.

 

Most days I still love playing the originals, though

[Keatah]

Yeh, I went through several of those phases. They come and go over the years. It's fun to sell the crap for more money than you initially paid. There's always a 'collector' ready to bite. Ultimately you'll end up with emulation, as will everyone else on the board. There will come a point in time the hardware is so rare (due to malfunctions and no replacements) that emulation will be the only thing left. Plastics and seals degrade, metal corrodes, electrolytics dry up, chip dies grow whiskers, joystick cables fray internally, repeated power on/offs blast electronics with spikes, manuals turn yellow, components fall out of tolerance, thermal expansion and contraction cause fractures in solder joints, switches get noisy, connectors get loose, flashroms experience bit-rot, no backup devices for console hardware..

 

When your pc fails you simply move the data to a new one. You cannot do that with original hardware!

Edited April 14, 2009 by Keatah

[carmel_andrews]

You can get that 'grainy texture' feel of oldskool gaming on emulators, just select the 'fullscreen' option if the emulator supports it (most do) and if the emulator supports it, try switching on all of your gfx cards advanced features....sheer bliss (i know, i just tried it on epsxe, a playstation emu for pc...and it plays just as well on a pc as it did on a playstation)

 

The other advantage you have with emulators is the throttle key (sometimes called a frameskip or turbo key)...good for trying to skip thru death/game over or fmv intermmission sequences

[crunchysuperman]

I like emulators, but there's nothing like physically plugging in a cartridge. It's a part of the experience, much like the sound & feel of a coin going into an arcade machine.