NES vs 7800

[Underball]

Variety wasn't the issue. Content geared for little kids was.

 

And the wii, like everything nintendo that preceded it, isn't much different.

[kool kitty89]

Variety wasn't the issue. Content geared for little kids was.

 

And the wii, like everything nintendo that preceded it, isn't much different.

 

 

Huh? That's patently false... at least as a blanket statement. It's true for much of (but not all) 1st party stuff, but that's about it... especially prior to the N64 when Nintendo was dominant (overall -close to equal in the west, heavily dominant in Japan)... then there's also the censorship issues that NoA found to be a useful marketing edge early on (initially they had issues with complains for uncensored games so they went full force for western releases until the ratings changed that in the mid 90s). With the N64 they lost a huge amount of market share in Japan and much of Northa America and Europe (North America hung on the most by far), so they got stuck a bit more niche.

 

Anyone experienced with any Nintendo console knows that the content isn't really geared towards little kids more than any other console on average (at least to a huge extent), though Nintendo's "family friendly" reputation certainly precedes them.

 

Regardless of content, video games have always been a kids/toy oriented market (especially from the mid 80s onward), so content geared towards that makes perfect sense. (of course, it's not uncommon for pretty young kids to be playing T/M rated games without restrictions... so even that's a bit moot )

 

 

Pretty much any system with a huge library (ie anything hugely popular -VCS, NES, SNES, Genesis, PSX, PS2, etc) from an era of games/genres you're willing to take interest in (ie not biased or prone to snubbing games that are "too new" or "too old" based on graphics alone or simply disliking certain generes -ie soem who can't enjoy many simple 70s/80s arcade style games or others who don't care for the 2D sidescrollers of the late 80s/90s or 90s 3D stuff, etc, etc) will find at least a fair chunk of enjoyable games on said platform. (even if they're outside the normal genre, there's almost always exceptions for libraries that large unless the consoles were too old for that or the genre totally fell out of favor)

 

 

 

Anyone who gets down on the NES's total library like that either has too little experience, an odd bias, or just plain odd taste. (and I'm not a huge fan of the NES -I grew up with it in the early 90s, but it's definitely not in my top 5 game platforms...)

 

The sound capabilities beat the crap out of the Master system (sans Japan only YM2413) and went a good step ahead of the somewhat more capable PSG in the ST/CPC/Speccy 128/MSX/etc (even without the Japan only sound enhancements)... sure there's exceptiosn due to composition quality, but you're never going to match the best NES sound (stock) with the SMS/etc. (barring elaborate software MOD players -though you could push some of that on the NES too)

Graphics were clearly better than the C64 and even ocassionally advantageous over the SMS. (mainly in cases where the lower color depth allowed more animation -due to more graphics fitting in ROM- and especially if mappers were used -one major thing was breaking the color attributes down to single 8x8 cells rather than 16x16 cells -8x8 graphics tiles are always used, but the color attributes are normally restricted to a coarser grid)

 

None of that really has to do with the success or failure though... pure quality software support and excellent marketing and management establishing dominance (and some less than legal tactics used in the west to solidify that up to the early 90s -outside of Europe)... Sega had a huge chance, but screwed themselves with terrible marketing in North America (unlike Europe where they bested Nintendo in that regard -or rather outsourced to better European distributors)... so much so that they were well behind the ill-funded (but pretty well managed/marketed) Atari Corp on the US game market through the end of the 80s. (seems to have been roughly 2:1 market share in favor of Atari up to the release of the Genesis -possibly even higher)

Edited December 30, 2010 by kool kitty89

[Underball]

Variety wasn't the issue. Content geared for little kids was.

 

And the wii, like everything nintendo that preceded it, isn't much different.

 

 

Huh? That's patently false... at least as a blanket statement. It's true for much of (but not all) 1st party stuff, but that's about it...

but that's the whole point.

 

Nintendo's first party stuff is and always has been cutesy kidsy crap.

 

beyond that, in most cases their versions of multi-platform games from 3rd party companies were almost always the worst ports, graphically and gameplay-wise. SMS, TG-16 and even the 7800 often bested them in one or more ways,

 

And then there was the shovelware. TONS and TONS of it. just as bad as latter day 2600 releases.

 

so yeah:

 

First party stuff: cutesy junk,

 

3rd party stuff: pales in comparison to the competition

 

Tons of shovelware.

 

Games edited for content or just never released due to content being too mature for a younger audience.

 

All that godawful flicker.

 

Yes, these are the reasons I was never a NES fan.

[Tubular Gearhead]

 

Anyone who gets down on the NES's total library like that either has too little experience, an odd bias, or just plain odd taste. (and I'm not a huge fan of the NES -I grew up with it in the early 90s, but it's definitely not in my top 5 game platforms...)

 

 

Well, I don't consider it "odd taste", but I have definitely had little experience with Nintendo because whatever you call it- I can look at almost any Nintendo game and tell it is being played on Nintendo- and it holds no interest to me.

 

There are some 3rd party exceptions, but overall here's what I mean, IMHO:

 

If you consider two of the (arguably) top Nintendo franchises- Mario and Zelda- the characters, sprites, enemies, layouts, etc. are way too kid oriented. To me "adventure game" means the feel of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - artwork and themes in that vein, not goofy, squashed children's book characters. Gannon?- please... give me a break. I mean, it seems that the adventure (and other) games that came after the NES all tried to be LIKE the NES, and I just don't like that Japanese animation (large eyes, goofy kid charaters, etc., etc.) graphics.

 

Maybe it is just odd bias, or just plain odd taste...

Edited December 30, 2010 by Tubular Gearhead

[The_Laird]

Personally I don't play modern games at all. The last console I bought new was a Sega Saturn and don't own anything from any generation after it. Modern games and consoles just don't appeal to me at all. My brother has an Xbox 360 and pretty much the only things I have ever played on it when I stay with him are the XBL downloads.

[+Stephen]

Personally I don't play modern games at all. The last console I bought new was a Sega Saturn and don't own anything from any generation after it. Modern games and consoles just don't appeal to me at all. My brother has an Xbox 360 and pretty much the only things I have ever played on it when I stay with him are the XBL downloads.

Are you into racing games? There are some real beauties on the modern systems. Since I am not a fan of FPS, there isn't a huge amount of stuff on the new consoles I like.

[The_Laird]

I do like racing games but not the over complicated, over realistic nature of many of the modern ones. I also loathe analogue sticks with a passion, just give me an old fashioned joypad or joystick please.

[Rex Dart]

for me, it's never been about the technical end of the sound performance. I've always cared about the tone of the sound. The nes always sounded so twee and high-pitched-doot-dee-doot that I never really liked it's sound back in the day.

This x 1,000. NES games, in every aspect - music, graphics, characters, game plots - always came off as twee, and kidsy crap. (except for the occasional Arcade port) I mean they all felt like Sesame Street aged kids stuff. Games for 5 year olds. Mushrooms. Pastel vomit colors. ballerina music box music. Something my sister should be playing with. Everything looked all Hello Kitty compared to the space ships, shooters, and racing games of Atari.

 

 

Seriously... how many variations of Pole Position and Galaxian do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

[The_Laird]

Seriously... how many variations of Mario and Zelda do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

 

There is a reason I don't have any Nintendo consoles . . . .

[Underball]

for me, it's never been about the technical end of the sound performance. I've always cared about the tone of the sound. The nes always sounded so twee and high-pitched-doot-dee-doot that I never really liked it's sound back in the day.

This x 1,000. NES games, in every aspect - music, graphics, characters, game plots - always came off as twee, and kidsy crap. (except for the occasional Arcade port) I mean they all felt like Sesame Street aged kids stuff. Games for 5 year olds. Mushrooms. Pastel vomit colors. ballerina music box music. Something my sister should be playing with. Everything looked all Hello Kitty compared to the space ships, shooters, and racing games of Atari.

 

 

Seriously... how many variations of Pole Position and Galaxian do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

So because every GI JOE action figure came from a common mold, I should have just started playing with Barbies and Cabbage Patch Kids to widen my perspective?

 

I like Galaxian and Pole Position. I look at it, I know instantly what it is. A Race Car. A space ship. etc.

 

I don't like mushrooms/turtles/cutesy dragon children and creepy anime/pedo looking characters.

[Rex Dart]

Seriously... how many variations of Mario and Zelda do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

 

There is a reason I don't have any Nintendo consoles . . . .

 

 

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet?

 

I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all.

[Rex Dart]

So because every GI JOE action figure came from a common mold, I should have just started playing with Barbies and Cabbage Patch Kids to widen my perspective?

 

If you want to switch the conversation to toys, I'm saying you should make some time for Ghostbusters or Transformers or some board games in addition to your GI Joes.

[Tubular Gearhead]

Seriously... how many variations of Mario and Zelda do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

 

There is a reason I don't have any Nintendo consoles . . . .

 

 

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet?

 

I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all.

 

You can have all the NES (edit-Nintendo) ones. They all look (edit- and sound) like Underball described to me...

Edited December 30, 2010 by Tubular Gearhead

[Rex Dart]

Seriously... how many variations of Mario and Zelda do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

 

There is a reason I don't have any Nintendo consoles . . . .

 

 

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet?

 

I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all.

 

You can have all the NES (edit-Nintendo) ones. They all look (edit- and sound) like Underball described to me...

 

 

Works for me. I could spend hours with River City Ransom's "too-big eyes" and you guys can have all those awesome 7800 beat'em ups.

[Tubular Gearhead]

Seriously... how many variations of Mario and Zelda do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

 

There is a reason I don't have any Nintendo consoles . . . .

 

 

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet?

 

I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all.

 

You can have all the NES (edit-Nintendo) ones. They all look (edit- and sound) like Underball described to me...

 

 

Works for me. I could spend hours with River City Ransom's "too-big eyes" and you guys can have all those awesome 7800 beat'em ups.

 

To explain it further- I like the variety and type of games in the Nintendo library, and lament the fact that the 7800 didn't get as many elaborate games as Nintendo, I just hate the LOOK and FEEL of the execution of the games on Nintendo.

 

I don't want to just play "space shooters and racing games". I want to play the same games as the NES had on the 7800- WITHOUT all the " Mushrooms. Pastel vomit colors. ballerina music box music". I wish development would have happened on the 7800 to give us a Zelda sized "Adventure 7800" with real dragons and a medieval theme- no ducks, mushrooms, Yoshis, plumbers, flowers, etc....

 

Oh well, no sense looking up a dead horse's arse.

 

But hey, there is hope with the 7800XM right?

Edited December 30, 2010 by Tubular Gearhead

[Rex Dart]

To explain it further- I like the variety and type of games in the Nintendo library, and lament the fact that the 7800 didn't get as many elaborate games as Nintendo, I just hate the LOOK and FEEL of the execution of the games on Nintendo.

 

I don't want to just play "space shooters and racing games". I want to play the same games as the NES had on the 7800- WITHOUT all the " Mushrooms. Pastel vomit colors. ballerina music box music". I wish development would have happened on the 7800 to give us a Zelda sized "Adventure 7800" with real dragons and a medieval theme- no ducks, mushrooms, Yoshis, plumbers, flowers, etc....

 

Oh well, no sense looking up a dead horse's arse.

 

But hey, there is hope with the 7800XM right?

 

Oh no, I know it's Underball that's all about space ships and race cars. I'd love to see gameplay from the NES with a different look & sound, too. I used to make NES hacks all the time & mess with palettes & sprites when I had the time, and the NES has some pretty bitchin' music in W&W, Ikari 2, MM2 that I don't think anybody would compare to a hello kitty music box.

 

I guess I'd just rather have bright colors & upbeat music instead of no background art & no music.

[DracIsBack]

Trying to play my own NES today, I was reminded of one key advantage of my 7800 ... the games always play when the 7800 is powered up.

 

I've had three or four NESes and none of them (including my current top-loader) worked very well. I either got a grey screen (top loader) most of the time or a blinking screen (front loaders) most of the time but my god, what a PAIN IN THE ASS.

 

Yeah, I know ... you can replace the connectors on the front loaders. I know you can clean the games and do all kinds of maintenance tricks. The problem is the NESes are the only classic systems that give me this level of hassle. I think they were terribly designed even though I quite like many of the games. It's always a damn crap shoot as to whether or not a game will properly load the first time or first 10 times I try.

[Tubular Gearhead]

....and the NES has some pretty bitchin' music in W&W, Ikari 2, MM2 that I don't think anybody would compare to a hello kitty music box.

 

Yeah, maybe it is time I gave the NES a third or fourth chance. It is just a lot of "first impression" I have to overlook. I am sure there are some good games I am missing out on, but I just have a hard time getting past all the "most popular" ones that have been mentioned that I dislike so much. Like I said, when I think "Nintendo" I immediately think of SMB, funky Japanese graphics, kid themes, funky sprites with weird halos around them that look like they were pasted onto a tiled background, etc, etc. Right or wrong...

Edited December 30, 2010 by Tubular Gearhead

[Chuplayer]

Trying to play my own NES today, I was reminded of one key advantage of my 7800 ... the games always play when the 7800 is powered up.

 

I've had three or four NESes and none of them (including my current top-loader) worked very well. I either got a grey screen (top loader) most of the time or a blinking screen (front loaders) most of the time but my god, what a PAIN IN THE ASS.

 

Yeah, I know ... you can replace the connectors on the front loaders. I know you can clean the games and do all kinds of maintenance tricks. The problem is the NESes are the only classic systems that give me this level of hassle. I think they were terribly designed even though I quite like many of the games. It's always a damn crap shoot as to whether or not a game will properly load the first time or first 10 times I try.

Or you can just replace the connector and stop complaining Bonus points if you disable the lockout chip.

 

I read all of the replies in this thread, and they covered just about everything I could have said and more. Personally, I love the 7800 port of Commando. It shows that the 7800 had a lot of potential that was unfortunately wasted by the Tramiels. I couldn't stand the NES port of the game. I hated it so much that as soon as I got the game, I dug out my 7800 and started playing Commando there

[Underball]

Seriously... how many variations of Mario and Zelda do you really need? Widen your perspective a bit.

 

There is a reason I don't have any Nintendo consoles . . . .

 

 

Mario, Zelda, Kickle, Ninja Gaiden, Nemo, Mega Man, Ninja Turtles, River City, Metroid, Little Samson, Bubble Bobble, Tetris, Balloon Fight, Contra, Ikari Warriors, Wizards & Warriors, Toki, Gauntlet?

 

I need 'em all. I'm not the one confining myself to Atari's space shooters & racing games, after all.

 

You can have all the NES (edit-Nintendo) ones. They all look (edit- and sound) like Underball described to me...

 

 

Works for me. I could spend hours with River City Ransom's "too-big eyes" and you guys can have all those awesome 7800 beat'em ups.

If I want to play a great Beat-em up from that era, I'll pop in double Dragon or vigilante on the SMS. They both put anything on the NES to shame.

[Rex Dart]

Trying to play my own NES today, I was reminded of one key advantage of my 7800 ... the games always play when the 7800 is powered up...It's always a damn crap shoot as to whether or not a game will properly load the first time or first 10 times I try.

Or you can just replace the connector and stop complaining Bonus points if you disable the lockout chip.

 

 

Or spend the same $15 on an NES clone Either way...

[Chuplayer]

Trying to play my own NES today, I was reminded of one key advantage of my 7800 ... the games always play when the 7800 is powered up...It's always a damn crap shoot as to whether or not a game will properly load the first time or first 10 times I try.

Or you can just replace the connector and stop complaining Bonus points if you disable the lockout chip.

 

 

Or spend the same $15 on an NES clone Either way...

Eh, clone systems usually have issues. I heard about a recent one that's actually pretty good, but you're still better off with the original toaster.

[Underball]

Trying to play my own NES today, I was reminded of one key advantage of my 7800 ... the games always play when the 7800 is powered up...It's always a damn crap shoot as to whether or not a game will properly load the first time or first 10 times I try.

Or you can just replace the connector and stop complaining Bonus points if you disable the lockout chip.

 

 

Or spend the same $15 on an NES clone Either way...

or spend nothing and just use an emulator, because they're about as relable and accurate as all those Chintendo on a stick hunks of crap.

[Rex Dart]

Oh yeah... I never noticed any issues with any of my carts, so I forgot they tend to screw up colors & stuff. Good thing I don't care for Castlevania I guess.

[Underball]

Oh yeah... I never noticed any issues with any of my carts, so I forgot they tend to screw up colors & stuff. Good thing I don't care for Castlevania I guess.

See, now that's just crazy talk.

 

Castlvania is one of the only few NES titles I ever really enjoyed. That and Excitebike.

 

oh well, I guess we're all just a little picky.