Why did Atari ditch the 5200?

[Atari2008]

I'll weigh in but more from a "pseudo-historian" perspective since I was not around at the time and my first introduction to video games was the NES. I think there are many reasons why the 5200 failed to catch on, some of it is related to Atari's mismanagement of the system, their being caught off-guard by the Colecovision, and also their game library which seemed to be rehashes (although superior graphically) of games previously available. The controllers which must've struck gamers as unusual in their non-self centering design, in addition to being prone to malfunction, probably didn't help things. Atari's pack-in game clearly didn't have a shot against Colecovision's Donkey Kong (although they later switched to Pac-Man, maybe too late). I think that had Atari released alternate controllers -- so gamers could've had options since some people do like the stock controllers -- and jazzed up their library, it may have done a bit better. But also at least from the famous Ray Kassar quote it seems that Atari knew the 5200 had flaws and they seemed also eager to switch gears. Although the 7800 was outdated and a bit of an oddity when it was released in '86, it must've seemed revolutionary in '84 when it would've been released. From a cursory glance it seems to solve many of the problems -- 2600 compatible and self centering joysticks.

 

However I don't think things turned out all that badly. The 5200 has a dedicated fan base till this day and homebrews are still on the horizon. The Colecovision although also short-lived due to the crash has a place in people's collective conscience and is fondly remembered, with a vast library that still amazes me as a younger gamer. I think a few things could've been changed here and there but things unfolded as they should. There are different eras in everything and that includes gaming. And I'm glad that the NES revitalize and revolutionized gaming, and best of all we can now enjoy the best of all worlds with all these classic systems to choose from.

[Rik]

But a year later, when I went to the Atari 8-bit, I was shocked at how little the 8-bit carts were!

 

Was the use of 2600 form factor on 7800 carts simply a cost-saving measure? I think the "image" of such carts might have been improved if they'd been bigger (a suitable cartridge port design could handle either larger or smaller carts without difficulty).

Yeah,which makes me wonder why the 5200 carts are so huge all the more!

[Atari2008]

But a year later, when I went to the Atari 8-bit, I was shocked at how little the 8-bit carts were!

 

Was the use of 2600 form factor on 7800 carts simply a cost-saving measure? I think the "image" of such carts might have been improved if they'd been bigger (a suitable cartridge port design could handle either larger or smaller carts without difficulty).

Yeah,which makes me wonder why the 5200 carts are so huge all the more!

 

I'm curious why is everything about the 5200 large? Why is the console so big? Is it because they had to turn an Atari computer into a system and all of that took up space? Add in the, storage for the controllers and that also accounts for space. I've read that part of the logic was the "bigger is better" mentality, but I wanted to know if there were more practical reasons for the size. Also, why is the power supply so large? Is it because they were planning on turning it into a computer?

[Atari~e]

"I believe Atari ditched the Atari 5200 Supersystem because of the success of the Colecovision in 1982. The Colecovision had stunning graphics of that time."

 

Also becuase the controllers were so bad, they sucked. Atari believed all their systems needed a joystick.

 

"The 7800 Supersystem used joystick controllers as well as the European controller that gives you an option to take off the joystick & just use it as a touch pad controller. This was the end of the joysticks after the European controller was made but was'nt availible in the States during this time. "

 

i dont believe the colecovision was the reason atari ditched the 5200. much of the money went already to the oversaturated 2600 market.....atari even tried to bring back the 2600 later after the life of the 5200 too. had the 5200 been stock 2600 compatible from the beginning, people that had 2600 systems would have upgraded (gameboys and ps systems have proven records later the importance of backward compatibilty).

 

colecovision had great graphics for its time too but the atari 5200 was right there in the same league.

 

as far as the joystick, the biggest problem was the reliabilty. coleco and intellivision had terrible controllers too but their reliabilty was much better overall.

 

there were many joysticks made (pc's, x-arcade) even after the 7800....today's thumbsticks on the ps systems or xbox systems are all modern day little joysticks.

I believe mainly Atari ditched the 5200 because of the saturated marked of all the mass produced games for the Atari 2600 VCS. This was also the begining of the video game market from 1971- 1984. The video game industry was new & young. I appreciate your point of view because you are correct about this aspect. We could go on & on. There are many points of view.

[slampam]

Targeted early 80s gamers were teen and pre-teen boys. But buyers were their moms and dads. Imagine seeing a $270 Atari 5200 sitting next to a $170 CV with virtually the same graphics. Keep in mind this was when a $100 was a Hundred Dollar$. Every price brake made by Atari was matched by the CV. In the end cartridge sales were the only profit margin for either and third parties could always steal that away. They rode each other into ruin (and us along with it). Ouch! Happy thoughts! “Dad, the Coleco is way cool, but can I get the Super System instead?”

[ymike673]

My 5200 cost $250 in 1982 and a year later it was selling for $100.

[Feyer]

Did anyone ever actually go through the trouble of carefully coiling up the cords so they could store the controllers into the storage area on the back of the 5200 unit?

 

Interesting in design but poor in reality. Thought it was a great selling point to make to Mom since it would "help" to make your room neat! Yeah, right.

[Ransom]

Since the console was in the living room, yes, I did have to coil the cords up and put it all neatly away. Mom (and Dad!) thought the 5200 design was great when it comes to controller storage.

 

But the size of the thing just absolutely blew it. The 2600 could be easily stored in our entertainment unit. The 5200? Ha!

[Atari2008]

Storage seems to have been a trend since the Colecovision and the Intellivision also had controller storage built into the system...although they didn't have a lid to go over them.

[Atari~e]

Targeted early 80s gamers were teen and pre-teen boys. But buyers were their moms and dads. Imagine seeing a $270 Atari 5200 sitting next to a $170 CV with virtually the same graphics. Keep in mind this was when a $100 was a Hundred Dollar$. Every price brake made by Atari was matched by the CV. In the end cartridge sales were the only profit margin for either and third parties could always steal that away. They rode each other into ruin (and us along with it). Ouch! Happy thoughts! “Dad, the Coleco is way cool, but can I get the Super System instead?”

That's funny :0). I was too busy playing my Nelson Pac- Man watch & Donkey Kong Jr. by Nintendo that I just sold a year ago & got no money for it :0(. I was deprived. I did'nt have an Atari 2600 VCS or 5200 Supersystem because my parents were too affraid I was gunna fight with my Brother & Sister. We sure did when the NES came out & it got put in the attick & we could never figure out the R.O.B robot, for the love of God, haha... Now back to my new PS3. HD is the best...

Edited April 23, 2008 by Atari~e

[phuzaxeman]

....Although the 7800 was outdated and a bit of an oddity when it was released in '86, it must've seemed revolutionary in '84 when it would've been released. From a cursory glance it seems to solve many of the problems -- 2600 compatible and self centering joysticks...

 

while somewhat advanced if the 7800 was released around 84, the lack of 3rd party support, bad advertising, and the lacking list of stellar games would have still killed the system. add to the fact the sound on the 7800 was pretty much 2600 quality, it wasnt that all great. i didnt get the 7800 immediately because i thought the 5200 was still better. even today, my opinion still hasnt changed.

Edited April 25, 2008 by phuzaxeman

[Ethane]

and also their game library which seemed to be rehashes (although superior graphically)

 

How can you say that!

 

Asteroids looks hardly different from the 2600 port, as well as most of the 2600 hits that Atari flooded the 5200 with. Activision was no better, their games got barely a facelift. If anything killed the 5200, it was the consumer wondering why in the hell an upgrade was in order when it was the same old games and not much different. The 5200 was a very capable hardware at its introduction, and hardly any developer took advantage of it.

[carmel_andrews]

...Possibly because Atari got shot of their star sales/marketing peeps and replaced then with has beens that ran atari into the ground

 

Or failing that Atari got too confident with the sales of 2600 and thought that everyone will trade up (to a 5200) just because it's an Atari

 

Didn't tramiel try the same thing with the 7800, lynx, jaguar and st/e falcon etc

[jetset]

and also their game library which seemed to be rehashes (although superior graphically)

 

How can you say that!

 

Asteroids looks hardly different from the 2600 port, as well as most of the 2600 hits that Atari flooded the 5200 with. Activision was no better, their games got barely a facelift. If anything killed the 5200, it was the consumer wondering why in the hell an upgrade was in order when it was the same old games and not much different. The 5200 was a very capable hardware at its introduction, and hardly any developer took advantage of it.

 

You've apparently never seen PacMan, Defender, Centipede, or Pole position to name a few.

[Atari2008]

....Although the 7800 was outdated and a bit of an oddity when it was released in '86, it must've seemed revolutionary in '84 when it would've been released. From a cursory glance it seems to solve many of the problems -- 2600 compatible and self centering joysticks...

 

while somewhat advanced if the 7800 was released around 84, the lack of 3rd party support, bad advertising, and the lacking list of stellar games would have still killed the system. add to the fact the sound on the 7800 was pretty much 2600 quality, it wasnt that all great. i didnt get the 7800 immediately because i thought the 5200 was still better. even today, my opinion still hasnt changed.

 

That's funny because I've recently hooked up my 7800, and I enjoy the 2600 games better.

[Ethane]

You've apparently never seen PacMan, Defender, Centipede, or Pole position to name a few.

 

Pac Man finally received a decent port. Defender and Centipede were a bit better, Pole Position wasn't much of an upgrade.

 

Those games were tired and wore out as far as I'm concerned. I'm thinking about Rescue on Fractalus, Ballblazer, Mario Brothers, and a bunch of other gems that took advantage of the hardware. Parker Brothers was pretty awesome in this regard.

 

My point is the majority of software for the system didn't take advantage of what the system could do. The consumer saw this and wasn't impressed. Especially with a pack-in title like Super Blockout.

[CV Gus]

Including Super Breakout was really foolish. Again, anyone who wanted this game had the 2600 version, and with the paddle controllers, it was better.

 

5200 Space Invaders was, quite frankly, inferior to the 2600 version, which looked as good and was more like the arcade version in spirit. Plus, it had more options.

 

But never forget that the 5200 had a tough act to follow. The ColecoVision didn't, it came out sooner, and its first batch of games were better and did NOT have previous versions to follow.

 

Atari should have had the sense to realize that the 5200, especially with those controllers, was doomed to, at the very least, a slow start. While Qix, Defender, and Berzerk, as well as Space Dungeon and Pengo, not to mention Ms. Pac-Man, were great, it was going to take time. They absolutely should NOT have abandoned it in 1984. Doing so damned them in the eyes of their consumer base, who felt abandoned themselves, especially since the 7800 AGAIN just had rehashes of games mostly seen on the 2600 AND 5200.

 

It's still hard to believe to the Tramiels actually thought the 7800, with a late start and other handicaps, like Nintendo grabbing up the then-recent arcade titles, ever had a chance. Had they stood with the 5200, especially as programming improved (look at Super Pac-Man), they may have been able to stand up to the NES, especially as Nintendo was originally afraid of trying to match the NES against Atari here in America, and Atari would have held on to the arcade manufacturers here. But they dropped out, and what did they think those manufacturers were going to do- float about in Limbo?

 

This all was a textbook example of how NOT to run a business. Dilbert's boss couldn't have done any worse.

[+Allan]

I believe mainly Atari ditched the 5200 because of the saturated marked of all the mass produced games for the Atari 2600 VCS.

 

Yup. This is the reason but some people still want to believe it was the controllers or the pack-in game.

 

The 5200 did NOT fail. Was it successful as the 2600? No. But it did not fail. In the end the sales of 5200s vs Colecovisions weren't that far apart.

 

If you look on eBay alot like I do at 5200 and Colecovision auctions, you'll notice about the same number of systems come up. So if the 5200 was a failure, so was the Colecovision.

 

Allan

[A Sprite]

Dreamcast had Sega Smash Pack Volume 1 initially, and there were other packaged volumes.

The DC game with a demo/sampler pack (DC Generator Vol 1) like the original Playstation I believe, not the Smash Pack. I don't think that was ever a pack-in.

 

 

It was originally released in January 2000, as part of a bundle offer with new systems. The stand alone release came months later.

 

Link.

Edited May 6, 2008 by A Sprite

[DracIsBack]

The 5200 did NOT fail. Was it successful as the 2600? No. But it did not fail. In the end the sales of 5200s vs Colecovisions weren't that far apart.

 

This is one of those things that could be argued until the cows come home. At the end of the day, who here has exact sales figures or P&L statements for either system?

 

And really, does it matter if it was considered a success or failure if you enjoy the systems and their games?

[+Allan]

The 5200 did NOT fail. Was it successful as the 2600? No. But it did not fail. In the end the sales of 5200s vs Colecovisions weren't that far apart.

 

This is one of those things that could be argued until the cows come home. At the end of the day, who here has exact sales figures or P&L statements for either system?

 

And really, does it matter if it was considered a success or failure if you enjoy the systems and their games?

 

I do agree with you. The most important thing is that we can all enjoy our classic systems because there are plenty left. I just don't like people writing stuff like it's a fact when it isn't. Maybe we should end this thread.

 

Allan

[Ron Albanese]

To this day, I still like the 5200 better ... but as a gamer back then, the Colecovision was just like this huge thing that descended upon the neighborhood ... why? The pack-in ... the pack-in! We were talking about how great DK was, while I gritted my teeth.

 

I mean, not to be redundant, but ... it really is the main reason the CV was bigger.

 

I think DK just jump started the CV, and the 5200 never caught up - the calendar of the crash was in full swing.

 

If the crash didn't happen so fast, many more kids would have wanted the 5200 in time - the followup games just kill the CV ones!

 

Were there ever sales figures released for both systems? The 5200 was technically available longer, right?

 

Ron

(Biased)

[Ransom]

Back when they were first released, I had both the ColecoVision and the Atari 5200. I got the 5200 because I liked the VCS, and wanted better graphics. I loved Star Raiders, but the rest of the games initially released were just rehashes and I ended up bored by them. So I sold the 5200 and bought a ColecoVision, which had a bunch of games I'd never played at home.

 

So for me, it wasn't just the pack-in that attracted me to the CV. It was the whole game catalog.

 

(But it wasn't long before I figured out that the games, although new to me, were not that great. I liked Lady Bug and Venture, but otherwise they were pretty mediocre to me at the time. So I ended up selling the CV to buy an Atari 400.)

[CV Gus]

Well, it is a fact that the CV pounded the 5200 in sales. Otherwise, again, why would Atari have dropped it when it was finally getting somewhere? This would only have destroyed any consumer faith in Atari. In the post-1984 era, they apparently did this with their computers, too. But the 5200? Even someone as cynical as I am just can't believe anyone is that idiotic.

 

Oddly enough, both systems died for the same reason- idiot marketers giving know-nothing advice, and boneheaded CEOs who believed them. This is what caused the so-called "crash."

 

I resent the usual theory because it's yet another case of the Baby Boomers trying to blame US for their stupid ideas. The whole crash theory assumes that since there were too many games, we spread the money out too thinly for any of the companies to survive. Therefore, the crash was OUR fault. That is one generation that demands the powers of a tyrant, expects us to obey them (watch Judge Joe Brown and see this sort of behavior) in every way,..and then makes us "more than equal" when the obvious disastrous results occur.and it's time to assign blame.

 

In other words, we were too stupid to know a good game from a bad one. 5200 Ms. Pac-Man sold as well as I Want My Mommy or Dishaster? CV Slurpy sold as well as Pepper 2 or Bump `N Jump? It's ridiculous, and I'm just fed up with taking the blame caused by someone else's stupidity. So should you, really. Neither the 5200 nor the CV should have perished when they did. Period.

 

 

Support the homebrewers of your classic system.

 

.

[+Allan]

Well, it is a fact that the CV pounded the 5200 in sales.

.

 

No. There just isn't any evidence of this.

 

Allan