+Larry Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I know there is a Quick & Easy Video Upgrade for the 800XL -- originally posted by Bryan. But I was thinking there was a similar one for the 1200XL. (?) (I'm aware of the SuperVideo upgrade for the 1200XL and the Clear Pic upgrades, so I'm not thinking of those.) If there is not a Q&E thread, has someone found a "magic bullet" that will correct *most* of the 1200XL's ills with just a few component replacements? I think that Clear Pic 2002 is about the quickest of those that that I have seen. -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I've done the clearpic2 mod to some of my 1200xls and have noticed that it affected some more than others. Some of the components did not even make a noticeable difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I've done the clearpic2 mod to some of my 1200xls and have noticed that it affected some more than others. Some of the components did not even make a noticeable difference Some of the video fixes can best be seen on a monochrome monitor (a good one) using a high quality cable. Did your 1200XLs all end up the same or were they different? Did they start out the same? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorgle Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 There was a definite improvement to two machines that had a bad "ghosting" effect. I wasn't using a monitor, but rather a small color tv (using a monitor cable, not the RF modulator). The Clearpic2 mod completely eliminated the ghosting and the letters are now crisp and sharp, but colors, especially reds seem a bit muted. It also cleared up the waviness of the image on the tv. Overall, it's definitely better than stock. I have left alone because for some reason it has extremely good video as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sincity Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) I have done the Supervideo mod on my 800XL and 130XE. I just picked up a 1200XL. New project! Edited March 29, 2008 by Sincity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I know there is a Quick & Easy Video Upgrade for the 800XL -- originally posted by Bryan. But I was thinking there was a similar one for the 1200XL. (?) (I'm aware of the SuperVideo upgrade for the 1200XL and the Clear Pic upgrades, so I'm not thinking of those.) If there is not a Q&E thread, has someone found a "magic bullet" that will correct *most* of the 1200XL's ills with just a few component replacements? I think that Clear Pic 2002 is about the quickest of those that that I have seen. -Larry Larry: I have a 1200XL here that has 'nice' video on a Y/C monitor. It looks like the only changes are to replace L15 and C115 with wire, remove CR20, and add a 1K resistor from pin 11 of the 4050 (U27) to +5v (wired on the bottom of the board). Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma. Not sure when (or if, even) I did this - no documentation. It's pretty easy to back off if you don't like it. If I remember, this is what you have to do to delete L15 and C115 - the really bad parts of the 1200XL video. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma Could you explain this for idiots please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma Could you explain this for idiots please Normally, for s-video, you connect the Atari's chroma output to the monitor's chroma input, and the Atari's luma output to the monitor's luma input. He's saying, connect the luma normally, and connect the Atari's composite output to the monitor's chroma input (you do this by making a custom cable). Make sense now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 I know there is a Quick & Easy Video Upgrade for the 800XL -- originally posted by Bryan. But I was thinking there was a similar one for the 1200XL. (?) (I'm aware of the SuperVideo upgrade for the 1200XL and the Clear Pic upgrades, so I'm not thinking of those.) If there is not a Q&E thread, has someone found a "magic bullet" that will correct *most* of the 1200XL's ills with just a few component replacements? I think that Clear Pic 2002 is about the quickest of those that that I have seen. -Larry Larry: I have a 1200XL here that has 'nice' video on a Y/C monitor. It looks like the only changes are to replace L15 and C115 with wire, remove CR20, and add a 1K resistor from pin 11 of the 4050 (U27) to +5v (wired on the bottom of the board). Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma. Not sure when (or if, even) I did this - no documentation. It's pretty easy to back off if you don't like it. If I remember, this is what you have to do to delete L15 and C115 - the really bad parts of the 1200XL video. Bob Thanks, Bob. I'll give it a try. If push comes to shove, I'll do another clearpic 2002, but if I can get 90% of the benefit with a 5-step mod, I'd likely be happy with that. It sounds like L15 and C115 are at least one "magic bullet." -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma Could you explain this for idiots please Normally, for s-video, you connect the Atari's chroma output to the monitor's chroma input, and the Atari's luma output to the monitor's luma input. He's saying, connect the luma normally, and connect the Atari's composite output to the monitor's chroma input (you do this by making a custom cable). Make sense now? ok, so Bob is referring to the cable? If I want to use s-video I just do the mod and use my s-vid cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 ok, so Bob is referring to the cable? If I want to use s-video I just do the mod and use my s-vid cable? I don't know what kind of cable you have. If your cable has separate chroma, luma, and composite outputs, then you can use it. If it doesn't (if it has only chroma and luma), you'll have to rewire it so the chroma on the monitor end connects to the composite on the Atari end. If none of this makes any sense at all, I suggest you get someone else to do the mod and wire up the cable... I don't mean to sound rude, but you'd stand a good chance of breaking something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma Could you explain this for idiots please Normally, for s-video, you connect the Atari's chroma output to the monitor's chroma input, and the Atari's luma output to the monitor's luma input. He's saying, connect the luma normally, and connect the Atari's composite output to the monitor's chroma input (you do this by making a custom cable). Make sense now? ok, so Bob is referring to the cable? If I want to use s-video I just do the mod and use my s-vid cable? Usually, I use a 5 pin DIN cable that has four RCA plugs on it, audio, luma, chroma, and composite. When I connect up to s-video I use an adaptor that has RCA connectors for luma and chroma and a s-video cable output. I need to do this in order to pick off audio from the DIN cable. So... I don't know what your 's-vid' cable is - is it from DIN to s-video? How do you get audio? The best way to check this before you do the upgrade is to try it with an unmodified machine. If you can get that working, it will work after the changes. OK? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma Could you explain this for idiots please Normally, for s-video, you connect the Atari's chroma output to the monitor's chroma input, and the Atari's luma output to the monitor's luma input. He's saying, connect the luma normally, and connect the Atari's composite output to the monitor's chroma input (you do this by making a custom cable). Make sense now? ok, so Bob is referring to the cable? If I want to use s-video I just do the mod and use my s-vid cable? Usually, I use a 5 pin DIN cable that has four RCA plugs on it, audio, luma, chroma, and composite. When I connect up to s-video I use an adaptor that has RCA connectors for luma and chroma and a s-video cable output. I need to do this in order to pick off audio from the DIN cable. So... I don't know what your 's-vid' cable is - is it from DIN to s-video? How do you get audio? The best way to check this before you do the upgrade is to try it with an unmodified machine. If you can get that working, it will work after the changes. OK? Bob Thanks for your reply Bob, my cable is DIN to s-video with a pair of RCA jacks for audio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted April 3, 2008 Author Share Posted April 3, 2008 Larry: I have a 1200XL here that has 'nice' video on a Y/C monitor. It looks like the only changes are to replace L15 and C115 with wire, remove CR20, and add a 1K resistor from pin 11 of the 4050 (U27) to +5v (wired on the bottom of the board). Use Composite for Chroma and Luma for Luma. Not sure when (or if, even) I did this - no documentation. It's pretty easy to back off if you don't like it. If I remember, this is what you have to do to delete L15 and C115 - the really bad parts of the 1200XL video. Bob A common thread in most of the video upgrades is to remove the inductor, L15 (or its equivalent) in other models, and replace it with a wire. I'm just curious if anyone has ever tried replacing the inductor with a *good* inductor so that the circuit would perform as Atari had originally designed it? Perhaps it just doesn't make a visible difference versus a wire. (?) -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sincity Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) and add a 1K resistor from pin 11 of the 4050 (U27) to +5v (wired on the bottom of the board). Please help me with this step. I am not sure what you are referring to. With the chip oriented right-side up and the notch on top of the 4050 (at U27), which side will pin 11 be on and which one is it if I count from top down. Also, where is the +5v? Sorry if this is too newbie of a question. I need a visual aid. I have completed the 800XL and 130XE SV mods using pics. Thanks. Edited April 5, 2008 by Sincity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) and add a 1K resistor from pin 11 of the 4050 (U27) to +5v (wired on the bottom of the board). Please help me with this step. I am not sure what you are referring to. With the chip oriented right-side up and the notch on top of the 4050 (at U27), which side will pin 11 be on and which one is it if I count from top down. Also, where is the +5v? Sorry if this is too newbie of a question. I need a visual aid. I have completed the 800XL and 130XE SV mods using pics. Thanks. Hi Sincity- Bob1200XL provided a further update on this to me yesterday. It is even easier than before. *Ignore* the previous references to CR20, C115, and U27. (So that answers your specific question.) I did the following and it turned out great on my 1200XL: Remove L15 and replace with a wire. Remove C60 and replace with *nothing*. I also connected the missing chroma line at R45. This mod gave me excellent Chroma/Luma; and pretty good composite. I would say that this mod produces video that is at least as good as a stock XE -- maybe a little better. (IMO) It is not quite as good to my eye as Clearpic 2002, but close, and at least by comparison to other video mods, is very easy. We need a name to differentiate this -- what should we call it (anyone)? -Larry Edited April 5, 2008 by Larry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urchlay Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 I did the following and it turned out great on my 1200XL: Remove L15 and replace with a wire. Remove C60 and replace with *nothing*. I also connected the missing chroma line at R45. This mod gave me excellent Chroma/Luma; and pretty good composite. I would say that this mod produces video that is at least as good as a stock XE -- maybe a little better. (IMO) It is not quite as good to my eye as Clearpic 2002, but close, and at least by comparison to other video mods, is very easy. We need a name to differentiate this -- what should we call it (anyone)? Easyvideo 1.0 (or 2008)? I wish I'd known about this before doing a clearpic mod on my 1200XL... Eventually I got it working, but it took 2-3 days of soldering, sweating, and cursing. BTW, the reason my clearpic was so difficult to do was that I found out (after I started) that my 1200XL motherboard didn't match the description in the clearpic article. Apparently there are at least 2 1200XL motherboard revisions with slightly different video. I can't remember specifics now, but it seems like the directions said to replace a cap with a resistor... but on my board there was no part at the marked location. A couple of other parts were different from what was expected, too... So we should try to find out whether your new mod is universal, or only applies to one or the other revision... and how to tell the difference between the two revs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 I should have posted a screen shot of the modified 1200XL: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sincity Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 (edited) Bob1200XL provided a further update on this to me yesterday. It is even easier than before. *Ignore* the previous references to CR20, C115, and U27. (So that answers your specific question.) I did the following and it turned out great on my 1200XL: Remove L15 and replace with a wire. Remove C60 and replace with *nothing*. I also connected the missing chroma line at R45. This mod gave me excellent Chroma/Luma; and pretty good composite. I would say that this mod produces video that is at least as good as a stock XE -- maybe a little better. (IMO) It is not quite as good to my eye as Clearpic 2002, but close, and at least by comparison to other video mods, is very easy. We need a name to differentiate this -- what should we call it (anyone)? -Larry Larry: Thanks for the update. Edit: Just did the mod. Using composite, it is almost as good as my SV 130XE. The 1200XL is brighter and vivid in comparison. The major difference I can tell is that the white characters on the modded 1200XL have some color bleed. Edited April 5, 2008 by Sincity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sincity Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Tried the 1200XL on a regular tv AV in and it doesn't really look that good. Again, I have been using composite. However, it looks almost as good as my 130XE SV when using a Composite to VGA adapter and an old 15" MAG monitor. Go figure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Just had my hands on one of Bob's modded 1200XLs and hooked up the chroma pin to R44. Results on the PAL LG RZ-15LA32: Funny thing is, the picture is still mono on a Commodore 1084S. Is this likely to be down to a PAL/NTSC incompatibility? I thought the 1084S would handle both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Probably... I hooked my 1200XL up to mine expecting it to be fine. But, it locks onto the NTSC signal just fine but obviously not the colourburst. I always had the impression they were dual-standard monitors but apparently not. Since most Amigas were run via RGB, so no colourburst problem, and it was never an issue in the day for most people. You can change Amiga/ST between 50/60 Hz, but the thing is you'll still get the colourburst from whatever the modulator defaults to. Of course that's generally a lesser problem on the Amiga as all you'd have to do is get a modulator for the other system, or modify the one you have to run on the other standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks for verifying this. Hopefully the owner will use a suitable LCD panel. I still have to sort the colour circuit on my own 1200XL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The PAL 1084's are pretty much PAL only (although I know a guy that managed to get a 5200 to display correctly) I believe that some of the NTSC 1084's are switchable between PAL and NTSC Have you tried fitting a PAL ANTIC chip? would that make any difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I believe that some of the NTSC 1084's are switchable between PAL and NTSC Nice! Have you tried fitting a PAL ANTIC chip? would that make any difference? I don't know offhand what the ramifications are. If CRT operation is important to the unit's owner, it's something I'll look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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