Gorf Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Pertaining copyrights and trademarks, it is not because the hold wants to be mean or clamp down on the little guy. The trademark holder has an obligation to protect their intellectual property or face losing it. My wife and I are having to deal with this issue on our trademarks. It is most likely the act of selling those properties that is getting attention. That is what got our attention. If you were making the items for personal use or only showing people how to make a box from parts on hand, it would be more informational and not commercial. Well put my friend but I would not even mess with it on that level. I already have accepted the fact that my work on Gorf was for naught and it will stay that way. I wont even change things or the name to try to avoid it even though that thought had crossed my mind several times. Better to let sleeping dogs lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 (edited) Pertaining copyrights and trademarks, it is not because the holder wants to be mean or clamp down on the little guy. The trademark holder has an obligation to protect their intellectual property or face losing it. Exactly what I was talking about, thanks for restating it from the point of view of somebody that actually has a trademark to protect. Edited August 27, 2008 by wgungfu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Yo, Gorf, I wonder, did you get to keep any carts or materials for your own personal use, or did they all get confiscated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Yo, Gorf, I wonder, did you get to keep any carts or materials for your own personal use, or did they all get confiscated? Midway was not looking to confiscate anything. They even sent back the copy I sent them for review. They were VERY impressed with the quality and the accuracy all around. They were willing to allow it but what they were asking of me(no not money, as it was for charity and they were not interested in profiting off charity) but instead were ONLY interested in me being able to protect the product from piracy. I could not in good conscience tell them ,'yes I can' knowing the intentions actually posted by some on this and other Jagur forums. Gorf could have been a go otherwise but understandably, Midway does not want to lose Gorf as an IP and ignore me and not showing the utmost concern for it, could open such a door. I was told that if I can come up with some way or had some Idea they would always be willing to listen. The other issue is they wanted me to sell it at such a low price it would be avout the cost of the CD for us to make and so much for helping charity. Trust me when I tell you folks, these companies care VERY much about the IP's they own, no matter how much they may seem to have ignored them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 the problem with laws nowadays is that for every law, there is a paragraph somewhere that puts it in question again ... there is mostly another law helping you to get around the first one ... it's just a matter of how much money you waiste on lawyers and research ... nowadays you even have lawyers in need of a job who will be searching for any case they can get their hands onto, even if the company they contact actually never thought about sueing someone. At the end, it is us collectors and homebrewers who kept the cult alive and made atari a still valuable brandname ... and i think that all these companies don't seem to give a damn about that fact! but they are happy when they can use the cult status that we have kept alive with investing a lot of our time and cash in such communities, on exhibitions, in detailed websites and databases, etc ... atari should be paying albert for his work on this site as well has the hosting costs, and other people who do similat great work! but they make the same mistake that warner has done previously when they tried to sell any kind of videogame based on the success of their movies. now they put an atari branding on games hoping the name atari will be some kind of super-marketing-additive that will boost the sales ... not that i want to critisize the flashback project, but isn't it some kind of suggestive thing? i don't think it really helps atari customers to remember the old console, as so many of the old consoles are sold on ebay anyway ... they go for about the same price than the flashback and it's defenitely cooler to have the real thing! it would have been really cool if they would have released a brand new multicart with most/all games on there ... maybe even some homebrews: that would have been a nice sign of respect towards homebrewers and probably a nice little ammount of cash for the hard work they put into such projects ... another thing that always bugged me: i sent many many patches to activision to contribute for their anthology project. all i got was a NES pitfall game which barely covered my shipping costs :S i wonder if they ever mentioned me in the credits as they told me they would do. does anyone have the CD and booklet? i thought i would at least get a copy of the anthology .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Again the trouble is, its not like these companies have not thought about it and even acted on it(Flashback and such) but its a whole legal mess, internally to these companies to have to prepare and pay lawyers. Every product that comes out of large companies, gaming or otherwise, HAS to go through the legal department first. The lawyers then set up all the proper wording for contracts and disclaimers and such....remember now, Midway would need to hire people, and treat games like Gorf as a business. It's not as simple as most seem to percieve....I also percieved it that way until I got myself smack in the middle of it. Midway was rather excellent in all of this....if they wanted to , they could have been all over me for it. Instead, they were actually helpful in thinking of how it could be done to protect all parties involved. They did not say no. I just could not in good conscience tell them I could honestly protect the IP. It would have to be put out on cart but those can be copied too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) It is a little... well, choosing words carefully here... ignorant of a question that Midway asked you on that matter, because if it had released the game instead, it still would have been copied. No videogame medium out there is impossible to protect against that sort of thing. Midway would not have been able to protect its own IP in that circumstance. But I assume you had already thought that part through and are currently nodding in agreement with me... Quite frankly the fact it got made, got out, some people have been able to enjoy it and you didn't get sued up the wazoo in the process is a victory unto itself my friend... Edited August 30, 2008 by Mayhem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockman_x_2002 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 i wonder if they ever mentioned me in the credits as they told me they would do. does anyone have the CD and booklet? i thought i would at least get a copy of the anthology .... Here you are. "Sebastian 'Jahfish' Clave". You're listed as the 10th name under the "Activision Special Thanks" section. At least, in the PS2 version's manual. Now, as for the whole legal mumbo-jumbo, I'm no legal expert. I'm just a mild-mannered computer programmer. But I think the gist of it comes down to something like this: If it's a personal project in which only one unit will be made, it's yours, and you will not distribute, then that's generally fine. If your project includes only intellectual property that you personally own (or your company or group owns), that's fine. However, if someone else owns the intellectual property, then the legal answer is always a big, resounding NO!, no matter what it is you really intend to do with it if it goes anywhere beyond personal use (and sometimes including that). Sound about right? Much as I hate it means I won't be able to land a copy of SI7800, and the possibility of deterring future classic gaming remakes, I guess I can understand that. Begrudgingly, I understand. Though it's not all bad. Just means that homebrew titles will have to go in a direction more toward unique, new titles except for those that do manange somehow to get licensed (if and when). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahfish Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Here you are. "Sebastian 'Jahfish' Clave". You're listed as the 10th name under the "Activision Special Thanks" section. At least, in the PS2 version's manual. thanks for the info .... looks like i'm gonna buy my first PS2 game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 It is a little... well, choosing words carefully here... ignorant of a question that Midway asked you on that matter, because if it had released the game instead, it still would have been copied. No videogame medium out there is impossible to protect against that sort of thing. Midway would not have been able to protect its own IP in that circumstance. But I assume you had already thought that part through and are currently nodding in agreement with me... Quite frankly the fact it got made, got out, some people have been able to enjoy it and you didn't get sued up the wazoo in the process is a victory unto itself my friend... Yep...but I still wish It was an 'ok, go ahead'. It's heart-breaking to see folks wanting Gorf Classic for the Jag(among the other systems I hoped to port(actually from scratch) it to systems like the 7800, SMS, O^2 and others.) The biggest thing that sucks is watching people break the agreement to sell it at the original price plus what ever shipping was spent, so others could possibly get a chance at owning a copy. I know I can't enforce such an agreement, but it was intended to avoid the likes on SS4U screwing fans out of ridiculous amounts of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I believe Midways concern was that Gorf Classic for the Jaguar was writtin totally in 68k C. According to Midway, C code when disassembled can be reassembled enough and easily enough For anyone to see what is going on. I think it was this that was more of a concern to them. Remember, had I agreed, they would then own the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I hope all 50 copies of SI7800 went to people who aren't going to try and capitalize on its sudden rarity. #19 is staying right here in my collection. lol, I wondered what my first extremely rare game would be. Who woulda thunk is woulda been Vaders of all games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I hope all 50 copies of SI7800 went to people who aren't going to try and capitalize on its sudden rarity. #19 is staying right here in my collection.lol, I wondered what my first extremely rare game would be. Who woulda thunk is woulda been Vaders of all games? Dont be so quick to sell it off either....some things are just more important than money...like good rare games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Dont be so quick to sell it off either....some things are just more important than money...like good rare games. Last thing I care about is rarity.. it's not even a factor that enters my mind. ..Rather what I like about it, is it's Space Invaders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almost Rice Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I hope all 50 copies of SI7800 went to people who aren't going to try and capitalize on its sudden rarity. #19 is staying right here in my collection.lol, I wondered what my first extremely rare game would be. Who woulda thunk is woulda been Vaders of all games? Even with a CC2, I have one because I was trying to support PMP. Not to collect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Yeah, that's generally what the CC2 is for me sometimes... not having to wear out the originals instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I also bought one to support PMP, he works hard to get these games done for little reward. After his coding time, cost for parts, time for making the carts, packing and shipping I still doubt that I have helped very much , however he may carry on and release something else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) ...I have one because I was trying to support PMP. Not to collect. That is the primary reason why I purchased my cart. In fact, that is the primary reason I purchase any cart from any 7800 homebrew/hack developer. Additionally, my Atari 7800 is not connected and has not been connected for quite a number of years now. All my Atari 7800 gaming is thru emulation. The fact that PMP releases the same exact ROM freely to the public as is available on the cart is another factor for me. I believe each homebrew/hack author has the right to decide what to release and what not to release to the public (Whether it's cart format or ROM format). For me though, since emulators are my only connection to the 7800 right now (And probably will be for quite some time), I greatly appreciate having the ROM image(s) as it appears on the cart that I am more than happy to purchase from them. -Trebor Edited September 1, 2008 by Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Dont be so quick to sell it off either....some things are just more important than money...like good rare games. Last thing I care about is rarity.. it's not even a factor that enters my mind. ..Rather what I like about it, is it's Space Invaders Hard to beat a classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) Dont be so quick to sell it off either....some things are just more important than money...like good rare games. Last thing I care about is rarity.. it's not even a factor that enters my mind. ..Rather what I like about it, is it's Space Invaders Hard to beat a classic. Yes it is. I'm a completist when it comes to certain systems, and nothing but the real thing will do. I'll hunt it down until I find one. If I can get it from the programmer, or at least from the AA store, then that's even better. The only thing rarity really means to me is that I'll take better care of the cart when it's not stored with my others. For most of the time, though, there's just gonna be an R10 cart in my case right between Space Duel and Touchdown Football--whee! I've got several other valuable games in my collection, and yeah, value or rarity is the last thing on my mind when I play them. lol, maybe some of the greatness of Space Invaders will bleed over into Touchdown Football...or not. Edited September 3, 2008 by shadow460 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Dont be so quick to sell it off either....some things are just more important than money...like good rare games. Last thing I care about is rarity.. it's not even a factor that enters my mind. ..Rather what I like about it, is it's Space Invaders Hard to beat a classic. Yes it is. I'm a completist when it comes to certain systems, and nothing but the real thing will do. I'll hunt it down until I find one. If I can get it from the programmer, or at least from the AA store, then that's even better. The only thing rarity really means to me is that I'll take better care of the cart when it's not stored with my others. For most of the time, though, there's just gonna be an R10 cart in my case right between Space Duel and Touchdown Football--whee! I've got several other valuable games in my collection, and yeah, value or rarity is the last thing on my mind when I play them. lol, maybe some of the greatness of Space Invaders will bleed over into Touchdown Football...or not. Yup I hear ya. I sold a one of a kind Fight For Life Jag cart to buddies....I dont like the game..... If it were an arcade perfect Galaxian or something like that, rare or not, he'd get it over my dead body! The FFL cart was actually a smoother version of the actual release...a slight bit smoother all around. But I really am not a fan of fighters and Buddies is the man with JAg stuff...plus he made me an offer that was hard to refuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 The FFL cart was actually a smoother version of the actual release...a slight bit smoother all around. But I really am not a fan of fighters and Buddies is the man with JAg stuff...plus he made me an offer that was hard to refuse. was the FFL different than the "beta" that is floating around on the net? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorf Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 The FFL cart was actually a smoother version of the actual release...a slight bit smoother all around. But I really am not a fan of fighters and Buddies is the man with JAg stuff...plus he made me an offer that was hard to refuse. was the FFL different than the "beta" that is floating around on the net? I do not believe so. I think this one was a little more polished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.golden.ax Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I had it back in the day and sold it for $80 along with several other things to buy an engagement ring At least she married me. This was back when I harassed the poor people at Atari, and they were nice enough to send me crap for being and annoying fanboy. From what I can recall, the textures and polys were way smoother, and it was more fun to zoom in and out. AX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 (edited) "F" the copyright owners.I want one! I would like to see Taito or Atari send someone way out where I live to remove this box from my collection, which is alarmed and armed! What's next,a whole new line of work for repo men to remove old classic game items? How can even 200 of these boxes that will just sit on someones shelf hurt the income of these two companies? Did buying Saboteur stop me from buying the flashback unit it ended up on?NO. Edited September 5, 2008 by dwh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.