Jump to content
bani

Recordings of cassette loader music?

Recommended Posts

The "0, 5 Volt" output isn't such a big issue.

 

The specs allow fluctuation to an extent. The TTL levels Atari and old gear uses specify something like <2 Volts as zero, > 3.5 Volts as one.

 

I think such a system would work. Also, there is scope for speedup. With the standard 1010, I've forced bit rates up around 800 or so. Much above that and we're probably hitting the limits of the FSK decoder in the tape drive.

 

Since a CD-based system doesn't have the demodulation phase, it should go higher.

 

But the OS does not check beyond a certain baud rate when computing the dynamic input data stream; however, if you write your own routines, yeah it should go higher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi guys!

Sorry to interrupt you with such a n00b question: are you talking about something like the CD-Link?

It was popular here in Cz many years ago as it could replace the omnipresent XC12 and relatives and their ever popular Turbo2000 upgrade.

post-9085-1223579216_thumb.jpg

 

At least it can be easily modified to do what we're discussing so we don't have to build one from scratch. I don't see why they need to use the COMMAND line-- wouldn't that cause incompatibilities with cassette/disk I/O? This looks like it's using both channels for data since there's no audio connection. Need some more specs.

 

It does prove though that it's doable; I looked at logically that what's the point of having 16-bit CD quality audio if when you digitize it back you can't even get back the most significant bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know much about it, never had it. Both channels - twice the storage. :) Speed: 6000 baud. Software: Super Turbo loader.

Edit: another reason for not using the second audio channel for audio would be IMHO the fact that hardly anyone knew or cared about any software with this feature here. :ahoy:

Mega CD: 79 tracks, 4+4 games per track.

The German Turbo description (in English) is here.

The Czech one (in English, too) here.

Edited by pepax

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you can't have 9bits in a row of ZERO bits, but ONE bits are okay since they are used for creating space in various IRG modes. Are you sure you can't make the levels closer to their original by adjusting some things?

 

0 start bit (always, can't get around that one).

+ 8 data bits of "0" = 9 bits of zero.

 

There's also the "Force Break" option of Pokey's SIO, which can force the output stream to zero.

 

That sample graph I posted earlier - captured via sound input on the PC... the audio path:

Set-top HDD/DVD recorder -> TV. TV audio out -> computer.

 

I tend to use recording level around 50% or just over on the computer to prevent clipping, so in reality that waveform should appear greater in amplitude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know much about it, never had it. Both channels - twice the storage. :) Speed: 6000 baud. Software: Super Turbo loader.

Edit: another reason for not using the second audio channel for audio would be IMHO the fact that hardly anyone knew or cared about any software with this feature here. :ahoy:

Mega CD: 79 tracks, 4+4 games per track.

The German Turbo description (in English) is here.

The Czech one (in English, too) here.

 

If you only needed speed and more storage, people nowadays will just use a PC interface or happy drive or something like that. The attempt here was trying to simulate the atari cassette player (both audio and data track). I guess you could adapt that in those interfaces above w/some modifications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think you can't have 9bits in a row of ZERO bits, but ONE bits are okay since they are used for creating space in various IRG modes. Are you sure you can't make the levels closer to their original by adjusting some things?

 

0 start bit (always, can't get around that one).

+ 8 data bits of "0" = 9 bits of zero.

 

There's also the "Force Break" option of Pokey's SIO, which can force the output stream to zero.

 

That sample graph I posted earlier - captured via sound input on the PC... the audio path:

Set-top HDD/DVD recorder -> TV. TV audio out -> computer.

 

I tend to use recording level around 50% or just over on the computer to prevent clipping, so in reality that waveform should appear greater in amplitude.

 

Here's one idea to get around getting repeating values for good; just modulate 8-bit audio along with the data bit into the 16-bit sample value on the CD. So, for example, you can have 0..255 for the "0" bit and 32512...32767 for the "1" bit. I suppose you can use negative values for the zero bit as well if the circuit can handle it. That way you can have audio and data on the same channel although audio would be less than 16-bit resolution. And you can have the 16-bit resolution audio on the 2nd channel or a different audio on the 2nd channel. Of course, the circuit would now have to decode the digital data (1-bit ADC) and also normalize the 8-bit portion of audio into the same range for audio-in and perhaps mix it with the audio in for the 16-bit channel. And you can also have two data channels and two 8+ bit audio channels modulated on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem I see with this is that anything that involves processing of the audio, or disseminating the data, then makes the whole thing more complex and would just push the price into the realm of things like SD and HDD interfaces.

 

Not much point having an upgrade as expensive and slower and more cumbersome that a hard drive addon when it offers a fraction of the performance all for the sake of having some game loading sounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>The problem I see with this is that anything that involves processing of the audio, or disseminating the data, then makes the whole thing more complex and would just push the price into the realm of things like SD and HDD interfaces.

 

It can be upgraded in steps where a person can stop at any step and still retain backward compatibility. You can start off with just a transistor that allows you to extract the digital data from the analog audio stream of one of the channels. Now the CDROM can still be encoded with audio information on that digital bit and you just don't have to use that information and still get the digital bit that you need for DATA IN line and use other channel for direct audio w/o any circuit.

 

In a further upgrade, you can add in the motor line and data out lines for controlling track replays and seeking to tracks.

 

In a further upgrade, you can add in extracting audio modulated on the digital bit.

 

In a further upgrade, you can filter out spikes and noise.

 

>Not much point having an upgrade as expensive and slower and more cumbersome that a hard drive addon when it offers a fraction of the performance all for the sake of having some game loading sounds.

 

It's only a few cents to get the simple cassette functionality and I never stated that it has to be slow. You can go up to 44100 bps by reprogramming the SIO. However, to make it compatible with all Ataris and convert existing cassettes to CD format and be boot-able CD w/o drivers, you need to start off 880bps or less. I don't see how a hard drive can simulate a Atari cassette program with a voice track. By the way, once you go full throttle at 44100bps, you also expand the storage capacity by 50X so you can have 25Megabytes per CD using only one channel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A HDD can simulate what the CD can do, although of course you then need a PC behind the thing.

 

A pitfall arises to counter the higher speed modes of this CD system though - the voice loading track then becomes kinda redundant.

 

Still, this would be an interesting tinker project at least. I'd really like to know how far it could be pushed (transfer rate). And, it could potentially become a low-cost alternative to IDE interfaces and the like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's Atari's Blackjack: http://www.atarimania.com/detail_soft.php?...;VERSION_ID=656

 

Apart from Atari and Synapse Software, PDI also released games with music on the other track. Adventure International as well.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

 

lol that 70s disco music is awesome...

 

i remember zeppelin and dimension X had some pretty nice loader music... classical tunes arranged on an analogue synth. i think blue max had some as well?

Edited by bani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol - yeah that's the same music from Kingdom. Man does that take me back. Thanks!!! (I could tell how close to the load finishing by how far through the track it was :D )

 

I guess Atari used the same track on all their releases from this era?

Edited by spookt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interested to hear some of this "loading" music. Is this music that actually played with the tape squelches? I'm only asking as I've never heard it on any of the tapes that I have or did own back-in-the-day. I remember the audio from the Atari Introduction to Programming series my parents bought with my first A8, but I'm pretty sure that it wasn't "loading music", it was just turning on the tape motor (was already in play mode) and played regular audio and just counted the jiffies until it was time to load again. Or am I wrong?

 

I just say that because I used to do something like that while coding in basic when I was a wee one, put a mixed tape in the 1010 and.... damn... if I could only remember that poke address...

Edited by dwhyte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd be interested to hear some of this "loading" music. Is this music that actually played with the tape squelches?

 

the tape is stereo. data is played back in one channel, audio is played back in another channel. when loading data, you can mute the data channel so all you hear is the audio track.

 

for games which take a long time to load, vendors would put music on the audio channel so you wouldn't be bored stiff waiting for it to load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i think blue max had some as well?

Over the last couple of days, I've checked several of my Synapse cassettes, including two copies of Blue Max. None that I've checked so far has any audio on the cassette. I do have some PDI cassettes with music, though, and probably some others. I will check more cassettes soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
..,you can mute the data channel so all you hear is the audio track...

 

I always encountered errors when muting SIO and using a tape, both loading and saving... And no one I knew back then had tapes with loading music either... damn... missed out on that one...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anyone else have cassette games with loader music on them? :?
Yoomp! has music while the game loads on the tape version (bundled in with the disk and carridge) that was sold briefly on the Yoomp! website, in exactly the manner described here. Very nice music it is too! When the loading progress screen kicks in, the sound from Pokey is muted and the first bit of the music is actually phased in from an Atari loading screech, which then pitches down into musical notes. I'm sure there's a better description than that, but I know what I mean :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well,

afaik the german firms Quelle and Europa also (Europa nearly always!) used the Audo track... with music...

-Andreas Koch.

 

As far as I know the spoken text is different on my version of this game.

 

By the way: there is a large mistake in this game. When I believe this game, The Hague is the capital of the Netherlands, which is wrong.... it has been Amsterdam for ages.

 

Marius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...