PeteD Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 And the c64 has supercpu etc? You're allowing those too then? How many normal users have more than 64k? Where are these many mb cartridges? I thought to get even 320k you had to solder some stuff? I'm probably wrong on that point but even so we're talking "stock" machines. An 800 with drive vs a C64 with drive. If you can't live without the extra ram then it gives everyone the feeling you're hiding behind it for some reason. Nonsense. The A8 was built for further RAM upgrades, and every cartridge has extra RAM/ROM so you can call it "stock" . It's a real feature. Plugging a Super CPU and or changing the chipset is really a self-deception. But I ask once again, even just for my own information, where are the Mb sized carts with ram expansions to take you from 64 to 320k? If there aren't any available then you can't say it's stock. afaik every a8 320k machine has a board soldered on? All I want is an answer to those questions, if you can say no, u dont need to solder for 320k, just plug in this existing cart, even better if it existed in the 80s-90s which was the real lifetime of these machines. Then I'll agree it's a stock option. Forget the SuperCPU, despite it just plugging into the cartridge slot, something on every c64 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 But I ask once again, even just for my own information, where are the Mb sized carts with ram expansions to take you from 64 to 320k? If there aren't any available then you can't say it's stock. afaik every a8 320k machine has a board soldered on? All I want is an answer to those questions, if you can say no, u dont need to solder for 320k, just plug in this existing cart, even better if it existed in the 80s-90s which was the real lifetime of these machines. Then I'll agree it's a stock option. Forget the SuperCPU, despite it just plugging into the cartridge slot, something on every c64 You don't need any soldering for RAM expansions on the A8. And, yes, my 800XL has a RAM expansion since 1987. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Maybe 3rd time is the charm. I promise to give up after this (ok maybe not). Where can you get a cart that plugs in that gives you a ram expansion from 64 to 320k? I'm probably going to want an expansion myself at some point when I get an A8 to test my code so it's not just a rhetorical question. You really do seem to be avoiding answering the question for some reason. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 But I ask once again, even just for my own information, where are the Mb sized carts with ram expansions to take you from 64 to 320k? If there aren't any available then you can't say it's stock. afaik every a8 320k machine has a board soldered on? All I want is an answer to those questions, if you can say no, u dont need to solder for 320k, just plug in this existing cart, even better if it existed in the 80s-90s which was the real lifetime of these machines. Then I'll agree it's a stock option. Forget the SuperCPU, despite it just plugging into the cartridge slot, something on every c64 Pete For more recent developments exploitating the cart possibilities, take a look at Corina: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/135561-corina-new-cartridge-architecture/page__p__1633477__fromsearch__1entry1633477 which enables the additional ram to run the larger games on stock unexpanded hardware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Maybe 3rd time is the charm. I promise to give up after this (ok maybe not). Where can you get a cart that plugs in that gives you a ram expansion from 64 to 320k? I'm probably going to want an expansion myself at some point when I get an A8 to test my code so it's not just a rhetorical question. You really do seem to be avoiding answering the question for some reason. Actually, my english isn't good enough to see on the first sight, whether a post is ment serious or ironic. Actually (2nd) , I don't know where to get this today. Many people DO soldering the expansion, to save "space". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 But I ask once again, even just for my own information, where are the Mb sized carts with ram expansions to take you from 64 to 320k? If there aren't any available then you can't say it's stock. afaik every a8 320k machine has a board soldered on? All I want is an answer to those questions, if you can say no, u dont need to solder for 320k, just plug in this existing cart, even better if it existed in the 80s-90s which was the real lifetime of these machines. Then I'll agree it's a stock option. Forget the SuperCPU, despite it just plugging into the cartridge slot, something on every c64 Pete For more recent developments exploitating the cart possibilities, take a look at Corina: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/135561-corina-new-cartridge-architecture/page__p__1633477__fromsearch__1entry1633477 which enables the additional ram to run the larger games on stock unexpanded hardware Thankyou Tezz So I can buy one of those now? If not then still back to the same argument over "stock" possibilites and if something that plugs in is stock on either machine such as SuperCPU. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STE'86 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Maybe 3rd time is the charm. I promise to give up after this (ok maybe not). Where can you get a cart that plugs in that gives you a ram expansion from 64 to 320k? I'm probably going to want an expansion myself at some point when I get an A8 to test my code so it's not just a rhetorical question. You really do seem to be avoiding answering the question for some reason. Actually, my english isn't good enough to see on the first sight, whether a post is ment serious or ironic. Actually (2nd) , I don't know where to get this today. Many people DO soldering the expansion, to save "space". really? you Do surprise me considering how fluent and verbose u have been in it having a pop at him for about 10 fcking pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Thankyou Tezz So I can buy one of those now? If not then still back to the same argument over "stock" possibilites and if something that plugs in is stock on either machine such as SuperCPU. Pete Pretty much yes, Nosty had been finalising things for it's release a few weeks back. It's been ready to go technically for a while. BombJake will shortly be released on the first Corina cart. Kaz posted a video on youtube last month of the proto cart running on a stock 65xe, you should see the link towards the end of the Corina thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Thankyou Tezz So I can buy one of those now? If not then still back to the same argument over "stock" possibilites and if something that plugs in is stock on either machine such as SuperCPU. Pete Pretty much yes, Nosty had been finalising things for it's release a few weeks back. It's been ready to go technically for a while. BombJake will shortly be released on the first Corina cart. Kaz posted a video on youtube last month of the proto cart running on a stock 65xe, you should see the link towards the end of the Corina thread. Reading the CORINA thread I see this.. 1. This is working protype designed to serve NEW games. Thus, it is mostly for developers who plan to release interesting games need extended memory, with state save option, etc. Don't mix it up with a simple RAM-expansion cart (as RAM-CART for example). You can't just write existing programs on it and use as usual. Also there are no plans to sell empty carts. So there is still no stock way of buying a cart, plugging it in and having the system see some expanded ram as the soldered method does? Still, it's an interesting idea for future A8 developments. I'd love to have a game released on a cart Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) The games/progs would need to be tweaked for the relevant bank switching to make use of the cart so technically speaking you couldn't just use your existing code as is. I'm not so informed about the full details of how the cartridge will be intended to sell but I assume that GR8 does intend to sell blank carts to dev's. It might be the case that they are intending for the developed games to be released through GR8. It'd be best to ask Nosty about that. Edited September 5, 2009 by Tezz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) But I ask once again, even just for my own information, where are the Mb sized carts with ram expansions to take you from 64 to 320k? If there aren't any available then you can't say it's stock. afaik every a8 320k machine has a board soldered on? All I want is an answer to those questions, if you can say no, u dont need to solder for 320k, just plug in this existing cart, even better if it existed in the 80s-90s which was the real lifetime of these machines. Then I'll agree it's a stock option. Forget the SuperCPU, despite it just plugging into the cartridge slot, something on every c64 Sorry, for the delay I was offline: GATO (87) Airball (87) Crossbow (88) Barnyard Blaster (87) Crime Buster (88) All released as cartridge with more than 64k (published mainly for the 64k Atari Game System). (They don't bring new RAM, but they use the much bigger ROM!) Crunched file version work only with memory expansions. Edit: Find more and better information here: http://www.atarimax.com/jindroush.atari.org/acarts.html Edited September 5, 2009 by Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Overscan, hmm is that useful? The only reason I'd use overscan is because A8 doesn't have borders so if you've got a scrolling game you either have to waste some missiles or players and pray you can get them to the colour u need, or software mask any pmg that goes near the side of the screen. Overscan just seems a convenient way to solve that problem without being sure if you can have important stuff happening at the edge of the overscan and still be seen on all TVs Pete is it not the other way around? we have smaller borders in 40 normal screenwidth while we easily can switcn to overscan... I guess overscan is a nice feature and maybe usefull, too, esp. when PMs moving horizontal out of the screen... check out my Venus Express port... http://atari.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5488 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Overscan, hmm is that useful? The only reason I'd use overscan is because A8 doesn't have borders so if you've got a scrolling game you either have to waste some missiles or players and pray you can get them to the colour u need, or software mask any pmg that goes near the side of the screen. Overscan just seems a convenient way to solve that problem without being sure if you can have important stuff happening at the edge of the overscan and still be seen on all TVs Pete is it not the other way around? we have smaller borders in 40 normal screenwidth while we easily can switcn to overscan... I guess overscan is a nice feature and maybe usefull, too, esp. when PMs moving horizontal out of the screen... check out my Venus Express port... http://atari.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5488 The borders don't mask PMGs do they? not like C64 ones would mask sprites. There is no, well I can't say physical, but you know what I mean, no "anything" there just a lack of playfield data. It's less a border, more a no man's land Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Overscan, hmm is that useful? The only reason I'd use overscan is because A8 doesn't have borders so if you've got a scrolling game you either have to waste some missiles or players and pray you can get them to the colour u need, or software mask any pmg that goes near the side of the screen. Overscan just seems a convenient way to solve that problem without being sure if you can have important stuff happening at the edge of the overscan and still be seen on all TVs Pete is it not the other way around? we have smaller borders in 40 normal screenwidth while we easily can switcn to overscan... I guess overscan is a nice feature and maybe usefull, too, esp. when PMs moving horizontal out of the screen... check out my Venus Express port... http://atari.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=5488 The borders don't mask PMGs do they? not like C64 ones would mask sprites. There is no, well I can't say physical, but you know what I mean, no "anything" there just a lack of playfield data. It's less a border, more a no man's land Pete yes. no magic here...PMGs get masked like you want in the boarders...so no magic here... PRIOR register sets the masking and borders have a PF color so it's up to the coder... what I don't like is having a game using standard 160x width and players cross the border while the playfield remains standard... that's looking lame and a simple LDA #63 STA $d400 instead of a LDA #62 did made it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 hehe... just played my Venus port since for a long time... not bad... and it benefits of the "open border" as see more of the level (reminds me Turrican Amiga vs ST) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) So it masks by using the Player/Pf priorities? If so what if your PMGs are over the playfield? I've seen lots of games and a fair few discussions on here concerning PMGs not masking at the border so they roam into blank space at the side of the screen. PRIOR says BAK in the case of priorities is the background or border, in which case there is no setting to make PMGs go behind it? I am still talking about normal PF width here btw. Pete Edited September 5, 2009 by PeteD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The troll here seems to be you, seems you can't handle being proven wrong My questions to Heaven are valid and for informational purposes as I'm sure he knows. If a forum with such knowledgable people are talking in one thread about using Missiles to create a proper border then someone else says the border masks PMGs properly thats 2 lots of Atarians contradicting each other or at least talking at cross purposes. I don't even need to get involved in the middle of it apart from I wanted the info. here is a video of what I'm talking about, showing up on the opening ceremony and the vault. Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) Players can be anywhere- they are not connected to the generation of the playfield in any way (except that they get OR'ed when PRIOR=0). They will always appear if placed in the borders. The border color always has the lowest priority and cannot be placed in front of players. If you don't want your players visible in the borders then you must clip them manually or put a player or missile of higher priority in the border or go with an overscanned screen and make your own borders out of another higher priority color. http://www.retromicro.com/files/atari/8bit/gtia.pdf See page 5 of the GTIA pdf. Edited September 6, 2009 by Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwhyte Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) The troll here seems to be you, seems you can't handle being proven wrong My questions to Heaven are valid and for informational purposes as I'm sure he knows. If a forum with such knowledgable people are talking in one thread about using Missiles to create a proper border then someone else says the border masks PMGs properly thats 2 lots of Atarians contradicting each other or at least talking at cross purposes. I don't even need to get involved in the middle of it apart from I wanted the info. here is a video of what I'm talking about, showing up on the opening ceremony and the vault. Have a nice day I wasn't referring you to Pete... Quit assuming everything is directed to you... Have a nice day! Edited September 6, 2009 by dwhyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Well, regarding RAM expansions... - I would call the Atari 130XE with 128k RAM (released in 1985) a standard, so 128k at least is very common. Of course I allow the same to you: a C128 with 128k RAM should be common... - RAM expansions for the A8 are available in a wide and huge variety ranging from the old Atari 400 and 800 computers, the Atari XL computers and the Atari XE computers, including even the Atari XEGS; we have for example: 1) Axlon and Mosaic RAM expansions for the 400/800 computers, they plug into the RAM slots of these machines; commercial upgrades of 64k and 128k have been made, there are homebrews with up to 4 megabytes using the same schemes; afaik these upgrades were sold as early as 1981 or 1982... no soldering required... 2) XL upgrades: We have upgrades using the XL PBI (pbi = parallel bus interface), like the 1064 a 64k upgrade for the Atari 600XL released by Atari itself, we also had other commercial upgrades, like the Yorky XL (256k XRAM via PBI), the Turbo Freezer XL (with 64k, 128k or 256k XRAM via PBI, released 1986/1987), the MIO (with 256k XRAM or 1 MB XRAM), the Black Box and other PBI devices that plugged into the PBI of the XL computers, no soldering required. Besides those, we had cartridges with RAM expansions ranging from 64k, 128k, 256k up to 1024kbytes, they were/are quite common in eastern europe (Rambox, Ramcart and others) and simply plug into the cartridge slot of any XL/XE computer, no soldering required. Of course there are also the hundreds of commercial and homebrew RAM upgrades that had to be soldered into the computer - mostly because of 130XE compatibility... 3) XE upgrades: there were the above mentioned cartridges with RAM expansions (Rambox, Ramcart and others) which plug into the cart. port, no soldering required. Afaik there were also some RAM upgrades that did plug into both the XE cart port + the ECI (since cart. port and ECI form a PBI on the XE computers). But I only remember the re-release of the Turbo-Freezer, named Turbo Freezer 2005, right now - again, no soldering required. Of course there are also hundreds of commercial and homebrew RAM upgrades available that have to be soldered into the computer for 130XE compatibility... (Which of course means, that almost all external RAM upgrades are not fully 130XE compatible and most software that requires XRAM will not run bugfree on those external upgrades until you patch it...) Later produced 65XE and 800XE computers (approx. 1989-1991) were equipped with 64k RAM, but Atari then used a 130XE board for them (to save money!), so upgrading these machines to 128k was quite easy, just add two more RAM chips and you are almost done (the harder part was to find a Gate Array chip)... If you want some more information about RAM upgrades for the A8 computers search the internet or simply take a look here: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/atari-8-bit/faq/ -Andreas Koch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRV Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Maybe someone will feel motivated to do something more constructive after watching these: (or to do more "research" like sack-cos ) Combat? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoBOvYmY7HU Spelunker? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKPiv4ElXaA Mr.Do? we need one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMdVKJG905k&NR=1 Regards. (hmmm.. anyone know what percentage of the installed base are the 130XE and the C128?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) (hmmm.. anyone know what percentage of the installed base are the 130XE and the C128?) The 1993 Commodore Annual Report that surfaced on the internet some years back gave these figures: 17M C64, 4.5M C128, 2.5M Vic20.. I'm stuffed if I can find the thing now though.. Edited September 6, 2009 by andym00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 here is a video of what I'm talking about, showing up on the opening ceremony and the vault. Well, that's me wiping tea off my keyboard this morning.. I never realised it was the case that the pesky little buggers can go anywhere on the actual screen.. So more work, masking the players at the screen edges.. Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The troll here seems to be you, seems you can't handle being proven wrong My questions to Heaven are valid and for informational purposes as I'm sure he knows. If a forum with such knowledgable people are talking in one thread about using Missiles to create a proper border then someone else says the border masks PMGs properly thats 2 lots of Atarians contradicting each other or at least talking at cross purposes. I don't even need to get involved in the middle of it apart from I wanted the info. here is a video of what I'm talking about, showing up on the opening ceremony and the vault. Have a nice day I wasn't referring you to Pete... Quit assuming everything is directed to you... Have a nice day! In that case I apologise but you did post right after another run of messages betweetn me and some other people. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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