What Games On Other Systems Show The Jaguar's Power?

[A Sprite]

Doom on the SNES.

 

Doom on the 32x

 

Doom on the 3D0.

 

Doom on the Saturn.

 

Jaguar Doom was so good it was ported to the GBA, nearly 10 years later.

 

Or take Final Fantasy VII, the game so popular that even hints it might be remade can sell PS3s? Fans still buy Sephiroth themed movies, soundtracks, and wigs without shame.

 

How hard can it be to improve on this?

 

 

Highlander points the way.

 

 

Look, people with knees!

 

Any other games from that era that make the Jaguar look good?

 

Or, hell, even the modern era.

[kevincal]

Tempest 2000 was no better on the Saturn or PS years after it's release on the Jag. Rayman was just as good on the Jag as the Saturn and PS. Raiden on the Jag was just as good graphically as the highly acclaimed PS version. The multiplayer aspect of Doom & Battlesphere were ahead of their time, well, Doom anyway. But Battlesphere with its 32 player networking capability is unmatched on the PS or Saturn. Err, wait, Saturn did have the Netlink right? Oh well. Jaguar rocks.

[Gorf]

Jaguar Doom was so good it was ported to the GBA, nearly 10 years later.

 

id's favorite console version.

[kool kitty89]

Jaguar Doom was so good it was ported to the GBA, nearly 10 years later.

 

id's favorite console version.

 

Wasn't it also the only port to actually be programmed by id?

 

And it wasn't just ported to the GBA (though that's the most direct port), but pretty much all console versions around the time were based on the Jag version. 32x, 3DO, PSX, Saturn. (hence why all have the Doom 2 textures and lack the same things in some areas, like the columns next to the stairway in the E1M1)

The SNES version was the notable exception to this. (later sourse ports are different, more closely based on the PC version, and the Xbox Doom 3 version is almost a direct port)

Edited May 9, 2009 by kool kitty89

[Video]

Even the PSX, hell, even the PC didn't push doom like the Jag did, sure it missed the music, sure it wasn't quiet complete, but none of the consoles are. But it wipes its ass on all the other ports out there for graphics alone. And the controller rocks.

 

Rayman was better (or at least as good) on Jaguar as it was on everything else.

 

Tempest was too, even though the consoles it was on were supposedly "technically superior" such a nasty word

 

Anyhow, unfortunately these games were the exception, not the norm, if the whole library for the Jag had been as totally cool, it would have hung on a while longer. Butt we'll neve rknow.

[kevincal]

I love Doom on the Playstation though... I love the Jag version, but the PS version has suped up graphics with special effects, a ton more levels than the Jag version (including Doom 2) and it has an awesome, moody soundtrack. Gotta go with the PS version on this one. PS version gets a 9, Jag version an 8... Not to mention the control layout is PERFECT on the PS controller, with the shoulder buttons for strafing etc.

[mcjakeqcool]

Because there are so many games on other systems that compare with the Jaguars power, I'm going to compare the systems that compare with the Jaguars power... FM Towns Marty, Amiga CD32, 3do, 32x, Virtual Boy, GBA, Wii(Lol! Only a joke), GP32, DOS and Windows '95. P.S, I've never played a game on or owned a FM Towns Marty but I've seen some clips of Towns Marty games on youtube and I would say it probally compares to the Jag. As much as I love the Jag it was never a 64 bit system, though it certinaly was'ent 16 bit, I would say it was a 32 bit system, and it would probally of been wiser for Atari to market it as 32 bit, as in '93 32 bit systems were the in thing, it would'ent be until '95 or '96 that 64 bit systems became popular.

[jmetal88]

Because there are so many games on other systems that compare with the Jaguars power, I'm going to compare the systems that compare with the Jaguars power... FM Towns Marty, Amiga CD32, 3do, 32x, Virtual Boy, GBA, Wii(Lol! Only a joke), GP32, DOS and Windows '95. P.S, I've never played a game on or owned a FM Towns Marty but I've seen some clips of Towns Marty games on youtube and I would say it probally compares to the Jag. As much as I love the Jag it was never a 64 bit system, though it certinaly was'ent 16 bit, I would say it was a 32 bit system, and it would probally of been wiser for Atari to market it as 32 bit, as in '93 32 bit systems were the in thing, it would'ent be until '95 or '96 that 64 bit systems became popular.

 

I hope you're talking about what it looks like, not what it is, 'cause it's certainly set up for 64 bits inside.

[sd32]

mcjakeqcool, i have a FM TOWNS Marty, and i have to say that the Jag easly beats it in 3d, and also on 2d, no contest.

FM TOWNS Marty is more in the league of the CD32 and the Neo Geo (i would say its a little more powerful than those 2). Its got some awesome ports of Raiden, Tatsujin Oh (Truxton 2), Splatterhouse, The New Zealand Stroy, etc, and lotss of cool rpgs, and great ports of Lucasarts point and click adventures fom back in the day.

[Gorf]

Jaguar Doom was so good it was ported to the GBA, nearly 10 years later.

 

id's favorite console version.

 

Wasn't it also the only port to actually be programmed by id?

 

And it wasn't just ported to the GBA (though that's the most direct port), but pretty much all console versions around the time were based on the Jag version. 32x, 3DO, PSX, Saturn. (hence why all have the Doom 2 textures and lack the same things in some areas, like the columns next to the stairway in the E1M1)

The SNES version was the notable exception to this. (later sourse ports are different, more closely based on the PC version, and the Xbox Doom 3 version is almost a direct port)

 

PSX was a little more textured and moer levels. The Jag still looked better and used higher color and better lighting.

Jag was the only one to use 16 bit color where all otheres were 256...even the PSX ans Saturn.

[kevincal]

Pretty sure the PS version ran in a higher resolution than the Jag version though. I also believe it ran a bit smoother..

 

The lighting was different from the Jag version to the PS version. The Jag version having the "everything in the distance is dark" but as you run around, things gradually light up the closer you get.

 

The PS version had a lot more lighting special effects. Not so much the light to dark effect the Jag version had, but it still had very impressive lighting. PS Doom was also a lot more colorful than the Jag version, even if the Jag color pallette was superior.

 

The Jag version did come out a full year before the PS version though. And the PS version had the benefit of being on CD, being able to hold a lot more info than a cart..

 

I like both versions a lot. Infact, I like Doom so much that I've liked any version I've played. I don't like Doom 3 though...

Edited May 14, 2009 by kevincal

[BuddyBuddies]

Jaguar Doom was so good it was ported to the GBA, nearly 10 years later.

 

id's favorite console version.

 

Wasn't it also the only port to actually be programmed by id?

 

And it wasn't just ported to the GBA (though that's the most direct port), but pretty much all console versions around the time were based on the Jag version. 32x, 3DO, PSX, Saturn. (hence why all have the Doom 2 textures and lack the same things in some areas, like the columns next to the stairway in the E1M1)

The SNES version was the notable exception to this. (later sourse ports are different, more closely based on the PC version, and the Xbox Doom 3 version is almost a direct port)

I do believe it was done by id and i believe it was the only version done by them , that was a big deal for the Jag and got alot of marketing for it such as tv spots ect.,

[doctorclu]

Bubsy was actually quite good on the Jaguar.

 

Early articles seem to show that "Bubsy (1) Claws Encounters of the Furred Kind" was going to be ported to the Jaguar. Luckily this did not happen.

 

Strangely Bubsy is only a 2 meg image, which is strange to me. Did Imagitec Design only have a 2 meg development kit to work with?

 

Doesn't matter. Bubsy (1) and Bubsy 2 were also 2 meg images (checking out the rom size). Strange strange.

 

So it is not that the Jaguar could not handle more animations and voices, just seems like they didn't want to hire Paul Reisen (Wakko-Animaniacs) back to do the Bubsy voice again, so they recycled what they already had.

 

In the grand scheme of things, Bubsy (3) Fractured Furry Tales we got a brand new game that I think was almost as good as the first Bubsy game, and better than the second Bubsy game.

 

The music has been mentioned by many to have a neat Amiga mod feel to it (which the gamers liked) over the other two Bubsy games, many have commented on how zippy the game is compared to Bubsy games on other platforms. The color and graphics quality would not be seen in another Bubsy game until 1998 when "Super Bubsy" was made for the PC.

 

Me, I do like how the glide feels in the third (Jaguar) version of Bubsy, which is similiar to the first Bubsy game. The gliding ends too abruptly in Bubsy 2 in comparison and why I barely play that Bubsy game. Gliding is actually more fun in the infamous and much loathed "Bubsy 3D" than in Bubsy 2.

 

Jaguar did good with Bubsy

 

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Zool2 on the Jaguar is actually another that game that the Jaguar beefed up better than any other version of Zool I have seen yet. I've seen screenshots of the Amiga version... not bad probably second best. Played Zool on the Sega Genesis, very basic looking compared to the crisp graphics of the Jaguar version. And all and all Jaguar Zool2 had good music, good gameplay, just a lot of fun.

 

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Rayman as mentioned, good graphics. Only lacked the music in some cases to be as good as the Playstation, but damn close.

 

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Pitfall Mayan Adventure was actually quite good. Good graphics, music, gameplay, and had a fully functional 2600 Pitfall segment (not ALL Pitfall Mayan Adventures can brag about that having played the Gameboy Advance version.) Pitfall's only weakness is the final boss. There is an attack not fully implemented and weak on the Jaguar version where he breaks apart and forms practically right on top of your character. In the Jaguar version he just breaks apart and reforms. On the Super Nintendo version... much much more formidible.

 

Otherwise I think an excellent port.

 

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Beta versions of Soulstar and Robinson's Requiem looked promising compared to their counterparts on other platforms. Word is that Phear was also quite good before being yanked.

 

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Soccer Kid looks about like Soccer Kid on the 3DO. Flashback looks about as good as the other versions of Flashback I have seen. Syndicate looks as good as the PC version we used to play in college (the controller is not quite right for that game though)

 

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Flip Out was on at least the PC. Can someone comment on that one?

 

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Total Carnage is said to be a good port of the game, I think most just think that for a slightly less graphics a $5 price tag on the SNES is more worth it than the $80 price tag of Total Carnage. Hey, glad to have it in the Jaguar library.

 

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Zoop was apparently on a lot of platforms. How did the Jaguar stack on that simple game? About the same?

 

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I believe Cannon Fodder, Brutal Sports Football, Pinball Fantasies, Theme Park (and Zool) were all games from the Amiga. With the exception of Zool, they all look kinda Amiga-like.

 

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Wolfenstein 3D... zippier, smoother, a neat port. At the same time, I always thought that you could not directly select the knife was a BIG failing point. But that is just me since I liked to sneak up and stab people on the Macintosh/PC versions. Anyway, that aside, not a bad version.

 

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Dragon's Lair, Brain Dead 13... I mean how can you mess up THOSE type of games? Oh yeh... Space Ace.

 

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Primal Rage has been mentioned to about as good as other ports at the time, just slowed down by the load times on the Jaguar CD unit.

 

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So my point here is show that the Jaguar versions were at least TOUCHED UP versions of the originals that were ported, and at least AS GOOD as the similar games on other platforms. And there were games and featured on the Jaguar not featured on other game systems (A CD unit, a VLM type solution, networking...

[walter_J64bit]

Not this topic again. :sleep:

[sd32]

How about NBA JAM TE, it is head and shoulders above the 16 bit conversions in graphics and sounds, and it compares ok againts the Saturn and PS1 ports, both of wich had the benefit of being on CD and had superior budgets.

[sd32]

doctorclu, i have to disagree with you about Primal Rage.

Sure it is better than the 16 bit ports and the 32X one, but sadly it is quiet inferior to the 3DO, Saturn and Playstation versions. I was very dissapointed when i compared them side by side.

The 3DO port has more animation and overall better graphic quality than the Jag port, and the Saturn and PS1 versions have something neither the 3DO or Jag had, huge arcade quality dinosaurs! I guess this was due to RAM constrains.

It suck that the Jag has such awesome 2d power, but that the lack of onboard RAM doesnt allow it to be showcased.

[Herbarius]

In my opinion, the Doom soundtrack always greatly contributed to what made the game great.

Don't having the music is a faux pas I can't let pass.

 

However, I do acknowledge this is my personal opinion. If you don't care as much for the music, as I do, I can completely see your point, as Jaguar Doom is an excellent port in every other respect.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Herbarius

[mcjakeqcool]

I would say that most 3d games on the Jag, (and a few 2d games) on the Jag compare to CD32 tiltes, however I would say in most cases, the 3do was comparitivly more powerful then the Jaguar, I would say however, in terms of what the Jaguar was capable of and not what the Jaguar games look like, the Jaguar is equal to the 32x, superior to the CD32 and inferior to the 3do, for obivous reasons the Jaguar could not compete with the more superior 32 bit consoles, such as the Saturn, PS1 and N64, however had the Jaguar 2 been releaced, it may have been just as powerful as the Saturn, PS1 and N64 and may have fixed all the Jaguar's technical problems, such as faulty processors and system glitches (such as the Red Screen of Death) unfourtantly for Atari, this console was never releaced. The Jaguar 1 however, altough it was infact a 64 bit system, most of the games on it looked 32 bit, inferior to the N64, superior to the SNES.

[kevincal]

I would say that most 3d games on the Jag, (and a few 2d games) on the Jag compare to CD32 tiltes, however I would say in most cases, the 3do was comparitivly more powerful then the Jaguar, I would say however, in terms of what the Jaguar was capable of and not what the Jaguar games look like, the Jaguar is equal to the 32x, superior to the CD32 and inferior to the 3do, for obivous reasons the Jaguar could not compete with the more superior 32 bit consoles, such as the Saturn, PS1 and N64, however had the Jaguar 2 been releaced, it may have been just as powerful as the Saturn, PS1 and N64 and may have fixed all the Jaguar's technical problems, such as faulty processors and system glitches (such as the Red Screen of Death) unfourtantly for Atari, this console was never releaced. The Jaguar 1 however, altough it was infact a 64 bit system, most of the games on it looked 32 bit, inferior to the N64, superior to the SNES.

 

Um, no. The Jag and it's GOOD games are easily more impressive than what the CD32 put out... The 3DO is less than or equally as powerful as the Jag, but surely not more powerful. Compare Doom on the Jag with the 3DO for instance... Compare Rayman with Gex.

 

Jaguar is superior to the 32X in amount of good games, graphical quality, sound quality etc.

 

The only reason the Jag CD & Atari died is because Atari didn't have the money to compete with the big boys in Sony and Sega. Even Sega couldn't afford to compete with Sony. The developers go where the money is. The Jag CD was plenty capable of competing with the PS & Saturn.

 

The Red Screen of Death isn't a system glitch. It's simply the system telling you that you have a bad or dirty connection. As long as you insert your carts properly, and keep everything free from dust, you'll never get hte RSOD. I never get it... ever. And I've had many Jaguars.

 

HALF (not most) of the Jag games look 16-bit or somewhere between 16 & 32-bit only because of lazy, underpaid developers taking advantage of the fact that the Jag had a 68000 processor. They could EASILY port 16-bit games because of this, and they did, since Atari wasn't paying them much anyway and they figured their game wouldn't sell that well on the Jag anyway.

Edited May 15, 2009 by kevincal

[sd32]

I would say that most 3d games on the Jag, (and a few 2d games) on the Jag compare to CD32 tiltes, however I would say in most cases, the 3do was comparitivly more powerful then the Jaguar, I would say however, in terms of what the Jaguar was capable of and not what the Jaguar games look like, the Jaguar is equal to the 32x, superior to the CD32 and inferior to the 3do

 

I own most consoles from around the Jag era, and can say that the CD32 cant compare with the Jag in 3d (and 2d for that matter). Having the CD32 do Iron Soldier 2, Sky Hammer, Battlesphere or AVP, would be the equivalent of the Jag doing Super Mario 64 or something like that.

The Jag isnt inferior to the 3DO, overall its at least its match...at least. And it is more powerful than the Sega 32X. Just take a look at their ports of Doom.

In 2d it is superior to every system released before it, and in the same league as the Sega Saturn, the only thing holding it back is its lack of RAM.

I am saying this form experience playing each console, and from coments from some coders.

Edited May 15, 2009 by sd32

[DracIsBack]

the Saturn and PS1 versions have something neither the 3DO or Jag had, huge arcade quality dinosaurs! I guess this was due to RAM constrains.

 

That's what I recall from the time.

 

the lack of onboard RAM doesnt allow it to be showcased.

 

I think it hurt the Jaguar in this particular case, but have a look at the Native demo. I think there's lots of opportunity to showcase 2D graphics on the Jaguar.

 

One thing I hated about Jaguar Primal Rage was ... loading ... loading ... loading ... loading ... loading

[DracIsBack]

comparitivly more powerful then the Jaguar

 

I hate the statement "more powerful" because it's overly simplistic.

 

Neither system is unilaterally better than the other in every way. The Jaguar has strengths over the 3DO and the 3DO has strengths over the Jaguar.

 

In terms of raw computing power, have you put them side by side?

 

One thing that I think helped the 3DO was having the CD to provide adequate storage to go along with the processors. The Jaguar did get a CD later on but only a few games were ever released.

 

in terms of what the Jaguar was capable of and not what the Jaguar games look like, the Jaguar is equal to the 32x, superior to the CD32 and inferior to the 3do

 

Have you sat with each machine and coded them to come to conclusions about what each can or cannot do?

[kool kitty89]

In my opinion, the Doom soundtrack always greatly contributed to what made the game great.

Don't having the music is a faux pas I can't let pass.

 

However, I do acknowledge this is my personal opinion. If you don't care as much for the music, as I do, I can completely see your point, as Jaguar Doom is an excellent port in every other respect.

 

Well then there's no real advantage for the PSX or Saturn Versions in this respect, they're all creepy atmospheric ambient CD-audio tracks... (some prefer this, like in quake etc, just like some prefer the lack of mucic for the scarier mood, but I like the orignal soundtrack)

 

Then again, as least they didn't butcher the music like the 32x version, granted a few tracks are still passable, but that's really no excuse as the Geneis had perfectly good sound hardware, at the very least it should have sounded close to the FM synth of a soundblaster, if not a bit better with proper use of the PSG added in as well.

 

The music that is in Doom on the Jag (in intermissons) is OK, better than the 32x but still a bit off, and even withe Doom using Jerry as the CPU (with avoiding the 68k being absolutely paramount), they still should have been able to do some simple (relatively low processor requirement) music on the Jag, supposedly it can do FM synth, which should be realitive processor-light compared to wavetame synth. (AM synth is a bit heavier too iirc)

 

 

Jaguar is superior to the 32X in amount of good games, graphical quality, sound quality etc.

 

The 32x is definitely less cabable in terms of overall hardware, certainly in 2D (possibly even with the Jag running on the 68k), and definitely in both areas when avoiding the 68k and having everything dome by Tom and Jerry. But that's to be expected with the 32x baving virtually no hardware support for 3D or 2D whatsoever (no blitter, and besides a fill function in the VDP -useful mainly for flat shading, nothing to help dray polygons), thus everything has to be done in software with the two SH2 CPU's, while being careful to do as much as possible in cache to allow them to work in parallel on their shared 16-bit data bus. Add to this the 32x has only got 256 kB of main system memory (SDRAM) in addition to two 128 kB framebuffers, and it's only got 1/4 the RAM of the jag. And of course, it's only got a 15-bit (32,768 color) palette (all able to be on-screen simultaneously) so a little better than the SNES, but a lot less than the Jag which had a 24-bit (16.7 million color) palette like most other 5th gen consoles with 65,536 colors on-screen. (which is more than a few of the major 5th gen consoles had)

 

The only reason the Jag CD & Atari died is because Atari didn't have the money to compete with the big boys in Sony and Sega. Even Sega couldn't afford to compete with Sony. The developers go where the money is. The Jag CD was plenty capable of competing with the PS & Saturn.

 

No, that may be part of it, but Atari screwed up big time alone. Pretty much all do to rushing the console to market about a year before it was ready. The console was a complete mess, with a flawed hardware layout (mainly the use of the 68k), numerous hardware bugs, and complete lack of development tools. (with the added year and falling memory costs, they could easily have afforded to more than double the onboard RAM) The marketing strategy was a bit off too (and the carttridge and controller designs weren't perfect), but that's not nearly as big a problem.

 

HALF (not most) of the Jag games look 16-bit or somewhere between 16 & 32-bit only because of lazy, underpaid developers taking advantage of the fact that the Jag had a 68000 processor. They could EASILY port 16-bit games because of this, and they did, since Atari wasn't paying them much anyway and they figured their game wouldn't sell that well on the Jag anyway.

 

Yep, particularly Amiga ports (and probably sone ST ones too). Definitly a reason to support the release of the Panther, actuallt getting into the 16-bit market with such ported games being completely acceptable allog with the potential to best the SNES and Genesis by a good margin if the hardware was taken advantage of. With the added advantage of building some support for them in the home console market, alleviate some pressure and help avoid rushed release of the Jaguar, and possibly even allow the controller design to be corrected as the pro controller. (as it was also originally planned to be used on the Panther)

It also should have been considerably simpler to program for, even with modest development tools. (given that a fair portion of the system was derived from simple and well understood components)

Edited May 16, 2009 by kool kitty89

[kskunk]

Yep, particularly Amiga ports (and probably sone ST ones too). Definitly a reason to support the release of the Panther, actuallt getting into the 16-bit market with such ported games being completely acceptable allog with the potential to best the SNES and Genesis by a good margin if the hardware was taken advantage of. With the added advantage of building some support for them in the home console market, alleviate some pressure and help avoid rushed release of the Jaguar, and possibly even allow the controller design to be corrected as the pro controller. (as it was also originally planned to be used on the Panther)

It also should have been considerably simpler to program for, even with modest development tools. (given that a fair portion of the system was derived from simple and well understood components)

 

It's an interesting concept, but you're describing a hypothetical Panther. The actual Panther technology was hopelessly outdated before it was released. The SNES dominated the Panther in (most) graphics and (all) sound capability, and was already on store shelves and hugely popular before the Panther would have been ready.

 

Despite the "32-bit" label, the Panther was not at all like an ST or Amiga or any other console or home computer. It was most similar to the 7800, which was notoriously difficult to port to. It didn't have a frame buffer OR character modes (the two dominant ways to handle backgrounds), sprite X/Y position registers, collision detection, or a blitter. It could reproduce most of those effects but they were coded very differently. It also had almost no memory, just a few kilobytes available to the game. Most ST/Amiga/home computer games of the day relied on frame buffers and generous amounts of memory.

 

The Jaguar on the other hand was a better fit for Amiga and ST ports, since it had a nice 2MB chunk of RAM, a frame buffer, and a very fast and friendly blitter (at least for 2D stuff).

 

- KS

[sd32]

On a side note, the 32X is getting a homebrew port of Wolfenstein 3D, and its looking really good. It will be nice to compare it with the Jag and 3DO ports if it ever gets finished. Kudos to the coders doing the port, its looking really great.

Now if someone would port Marathon to the Jag...

Edited May 16, 2009 by sd32