Coleco caused more damage to the games industry then Atari.

[Vic George 2K3]

 

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

Neither could the Colecovision. What's your point?

 

At least Coleco offered an expansion module to play 2600 games on the ColecoVision right from the start. Atari ended up waiting a year or so before they did the same for their 5200. Which basically sounds like a bad strategy for Atari if they wanted 2600 owners to upgrade to the 5200.

 

Bounce.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Vic George 2K3

[the-topdog]

Through all these years, my brother has said that it was ME that caused the video gaming crash. Now I can finally shed this cloak of guilt and shame that has weighed me down all these years and once again stride forward unabashed by the cruel obloquy facade that was thrust upon me by my guileful sibling, and... ummm... hey... why is everyone looking at me like that? Hey, why are these guys putting this white jacket on me... wait! Cebus, where are you? Tell these guys you told me to post this... Cebus? CEBUS!!!!!!

[jetset]

 

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

Neither could the Colecovision. What's your point?

 

At least Coleco offered an expansion module to play 2600 games on the ColecoVision right from the start. Atari ended up waiting a year or so before they did the same for their 5200. Which basically sounds like a bad strategy for Atari if they wanted 2600 owners to upgrade to the 5200, and the reason Atari decided to scrap the 5200 and work on the 7800.

 

Actually it was not a year, but still you are right it was not at release. The announcement of an adapter was made shortly after launch, so 5200 owners knew it was coming. Really though nobody cared about backwards compatibility back then anyway. If you owned a 5200 the LAST thing you cared to play were 2600 games. I'm guessing if that were important to CV owners it was because with the exception of Donkey Kong their lineup was weak. Maybe CV owners longed for better games like those of the 2600. 5200 owners didn't care. We were set.

Atari didn't scrap the 5200 because of backwards compatibility, they did so because of the crash (same reason coleco scrapped the CV)

 

Seriously, I can't say I knew anyone who cared about backwards compatibility back then...I always get a chuckle at hearing the 5200 suffered because of it.

[retroillucid]

... I'm guessing if that were important to CV owners it was because with the exception of Donkey Kong their lineup was weak. Maybe CV owners longed for better games like those of the 2600. 5200 owners didn't care.

 

The Atari adapter was clearly made for Atari 2600 owner who wished to go with CV

I never owned an Atari adapter back then, and so my friends

 

Lineup was weak!? euh?!

[Retro Rogue]

The announcement of an adapter was made shortly after launch, so 5200 owners knew it was coming.

 

Actually no, it was announced along with it at the launch. 2600 compatibility through an adapter was mentioned both in the pre-CES press kit as well as the CES press-kit.

Edited September 1, 2011 by wgungfu

[retroillucid]

they did so because of the crash (same reason coleco scrapped the CV)

 

Coleco "scrapped" the CV because they had to produced the ADAM computer and that was the very same employees who worked on the CV

[SoundGammon]

...the crash was actually the BEST thing to happen for Atari! 1) Got rid of a lot of the competition. 2) Got a system ready that the players/consumers wanted: 7800. 7800 had encryption built in to keep crappy games to coming to the market. But sadly, Warner didn't give time to make it work!

[jetset]

The announcement of an adapter was made shortly after launch, so 5200 owners knew it was coming.

 

Actually no, it was announced along with it at the launch. 2600 compatibility through an adapter was mentioned both in the pre-CES press kit as well as the CES press-kit.

 

Ok, I probably worded that wrong. I should have said It was *at least* made shortly after launch, possibly prior. I know it was out a month before Xmas in '82, and by the last few days before (xmas) I remember reading about the adapter. I already had a 2600 so there was no point in buying an adapter.

[ozma wars]

... I'm guessing if that were important to CV owners it was because with the exception of Donkey Kong their lineup was weak. Maybe CV owners longed for better games like those of the 2600. 5200 owners didn't care.

 

The Atari adapter was clearly made for Atari 2600 owner who wished to go with CV

I never owned an Atari adapter back then, and so my friends

 

Lineup was weak!? euh?!

 

bad to say but, yes, lineup was weak

as european..I cannot say the games were heavily promoted here and for one year the lineup consisted of very few titles.

When the second wave of games arrived...Colecovision already was a ghost here.

[Retro Rogue]

they did so because of the crash (same reason coleco scrapped the CV)

 

Coleco "scrapped" the CV because they had to produced the ADAM computer and that was the very same employees who worked on the CV

 

Actually, no again. This was already covered here, there was no scrapping. What occurred was a pause in Colecovision manufacturing which picked up again and continued in to the first half of '85.

 

...the crash was actually the BEST thing to happen for Atari! 1) Got rid of a lot of the competition. 2) Got a system ready that the players/consumers wanted: 7800. 7800 had encryption built in to keep crappy games to coming to the market. But sadly, Warner didn't give time to make it work!

 

Huh? It got rid of them as well, Atari never survived the crash - I=it was split in to pieces and sold off. Atari Corporation was a different company. Likewise the 7800 does not have encryption, it uses a digital signature on the cartridges which itself was encrypted. It's an authentication scheme, not a wholesale encryption of the game. Also, the 7800 was in the works before the crash went in to full speed and had nothing to do with the crash. GCC thought the 5200 was a terrible console and wanted to do what they thought would be better suited as a next gen console. Their contract was with Warner (not Atari), and when they approached Warner about doing it, it was put on to Atari (a polite way of saying Warner told Atari they were to pursue this with GCC). That's also why there was a time when the 7800 and Famicom were neck and neck for the spot (Nintendo was dealing with Atari direct).

Edited September 1, 2011 by wgungfu

[retroillucid]

 

Actually, no again. This was already covered here, there was no scrapping. What occurred was a pause in Colecovision manufacturing which picked up again and continued in to the first half of '85.

 

 

 

There were no pause at all , they totally stop any CV projects

 

Telegames bough all the CV stock in 1985....

Edited September 1, 2011 by retroillucid

[retroillucid]

... I'm guessing if that were important to CV owners it was because with the exception of Donkey Kong their lineup was weak. Maybe CV owners longed for better games like those of the 2600. 5200 owners didn't care.

 

The Atari adapter was clearly made for Atari 2600 owner who wished to go with CV

I never owned an Atari adapter back then, and so my friends

 

Lineup was weak!? euh?!

 

bad to say but, yes, lineup was weak

as european..I cannot say the games were heavily promoted here and for one year the lineup consisted of very few titles.

When the second wave of games arrived...Colecovision already was a ghost here.

 

Are you saying that Venture, Carnival, Zaxxon,Smurf Rescue etc was a weak lineup? !!

 

Geez.....

[Metal Ghost]

they did so because of the crash (same reason coleco scrapped the CV)

 

Coleco "scrapped" the CV because they had to produced the ADAM computer and that was the very same employees who worked on the CV

 

Actually, no again. This was already covered here, there was no scrapping. What occurred was a pause in Colecovision manufacturing which picked up again and continued in to the first half of '85.

 

...the crash was actually the BEST thing to happen for Atari! 1) Got rid of a lot of the competition. 2) Got a system ready that the players/consumers wanted: 7800. 7800 had encryption built in to keep crappy games to coming to the market. But sadly, Warner didn't give time to make it work!

 

Huh? It got rid of them as well, Atari never survived the crash - I=it was split in to pieces and sold off. Atari Corporation was a different company. Likewise the 7800 does not have encryption, it uses a digital signature on the cartridges which itself was encrypted. It's an authentication scheme, not a wholesale encryption of the game. Also, the 7800 was in the works before the crash went in to full speed and had nothing to do with the crash. GCC thought the 5200 was a terrible console and wanted to do what they thought would be better suited as a next gen console. Their contract was with Warner (not Atari), and when they approached Warner about doing it, it was put on to Atari (a polite way of saying Warner told Atari they were to pursue this with GCC). That's also why there was a time when the 7800 and Famicom were neck and neck for the spot (Nintendo was dealing with Atari direct).

 

 

Yes, it did eventually get rid of Atari as well. But some might say that if Warner had given the turnaround plan being enacted by Mr. Morgan time, then Atari (with the help of the 'ol 7800) would have been stronger in the long-run, in comparison to when their primary console was open to 3rd party shovel ware which paid no royalties, etc. But Warner didn't give Atari the time to allow it's cost cutting measures to truly bare fruit and the 7800 to re-kindle customer excitement. But to be fair, Warner didn't really have the time, or money, to give Atari. Had they been a stronger company at the time they may have been able to grin and bare the Atari restructuring. But Atari made up such a large chunk of Warner revenues and profits (then turning into losses), on top of the hostile Murdoch activity, and Warner had to do what they could to save the parent company, to hell with Atari.

 

Hate to say it, but if I was sitting in New York, then Sunnyvale looks expendable to me too.

 

I know that's just a sound-byte version of event, but I think there's validity to it.

[Retro Rogue]

There were no pause at all ,

 

Yes there was, I paid for copies of the articles related to it and Coleco executives trying to downplay their reasoning behind it.

 

 

 

They totally stop any CV projects Telegames bough all the CV stock in 1985....

 

 

Yes, in the second half of 1985. You basically just repeated what I just said in my last post.

 

Yes, it did eventually get rid of Atari as well. But some might say that if Warner had given the turnaround plan being enacted by Mr. Morgan time, then Atari (with the help of the 'ol 7800) would have been stronger in the long-run, in comparison to when their primary console was open to 3rd party shovel ware which paid no royalties, etc. But Warner didn't give Atari the time to allow it's cost cutting measures to truly bare fruit and the 7800 to re-kindle customer excitement. But to be fair, Warner didn't really have the time, or money, to give Atari. Had they been a stronger company at the time they may have been able to grin and bare the Atari restructuring. But Atari made up such a large chunk of Warner revenues and profits (then turning into losses), on top of the hostile Murdoch activity, and Warner had to do what they could to save the parent company, to hell with Atari.

 

Hate to say it, but if I was sitting in New York, then Sunnyvale looks expendable to me too.

 

I know that's just a sound-byte version of event, but I think there's validity to it.

 

Oh, I totally agree, I think Morgan was on the right track with his plans. Though regarding Murdoch, that was already settled by the time they started looking for potential buyers.

Edited September 1, 2011 by wgungfu

[jetset]

... I'm guessing if that were important to CV owners it was because with the exception of Donkey Kong their lineup was weak. Maybe CV owners longed for better games like those of the 2600. 5200 owners didn't care.

 

The Atari adapter was clearly made for Atari 2600 owner who wished to go with CV

I never owned an Atari adapter back then, and so my friends

 

Lineup was weak!? euh?!

 

bad to say but, yes, lineup was weak

as european..I cannot say the games were heavily promoted here and for one year the lineup consisted of very few titles.

When the second wave of games arrived...Colecovision already was a ghost here.

 

Are you saying that Venture, Carnival, Zaxxon,Smurf Rescue etc was a weak lineup? !!

 

Geez.....

 

I would. Venture was a good game. Carnival? That was a dust gatherer in the arcades. Zaxxon had potential, but it was so poorly done it was painful. Smurf Rescue? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

[Metal Ghost]

There were no pause at all ,

 

Yes there was, I paid for copies of the articles related to it and Coleco executives trying to downplay their reasoning behind it.

 

 

 

They totally stop any CV projects Telegames bough all the CV stock in 1985....

 

 

Yes, in the second half of 1985. You basically just repeated what I just said in my last post.

 

Yes, it did eventually get rid of Atari as well. But some might say that if Warner had given the turnaround plan being enacted by Mr. Morgan time, then Atari (with the help of the 'ol 7800) would have been stronger in the long-run, in comparison to when their primary console was open to 3rd party shovel ware which paid no royalties, etc. But Warner didn't give Atari the time to allow it's cost cutting measures to truly bare fruit and the 7800 to re-kindle customer excitement. But to be fair, Warner didn't really have the time, or money, to give Atari. Had they been a stronger company at the time they may have been able to grin and bare the Atari restructuring. But Atari made up such a large chunk of Warner revenues and profits (then turning into losses), on top of the hostile Murdoch activity, and Warner had to do what they could to save the parent company, to hell with Atari.

 

Hate to say it, but if I was sitting in New York, then Sunnyvale looks expendable to me too.

 

I know that's just a sound-byte version of event, but I think there's validity to it.

 

Oh, I totally agree, I think Morgan was on the right track with his plans. Though regarding Murdoch, that was already settled by the time they started looking for potential buyers.

 

Yes, but I have to imagine that the entire ordeal and how it put Warner through its paces really pressed home the fact to Steve Ross that he had to get the stock price back up in order to avoid future hostile takeover activity.

 

Also, I can't seem to remember who his white knight was, but wasn't he beholden at least in some way to another company after that? At least a little bit? I can't completely remember.....I haven't read up on the subject in quite some time. But in the end Ross had less and less options.

 

Really, sometimes if I didn't laugh about the whole thing I'd cry.

[retroillucid]

 

Yes there was, I paid for copies of the articles related to it and Coleco executives trying to downplay their reasoning behind it.

 

Show me proof of this, seriously

I had talks with many peoples (employees) and even Mr. Ralph Baer (THE inventor of Pong)

All said production of Colecovision STOPED because the same employees were working on ADAM

Then when ADAM get released, the remaining FEW titles got released

 

I would really like to see those articles you have, I'm not here to argue you, I just want the real story

 

 

 

Yes, in the second half of 1985. You basically just repeated what I just said in my last post.

 

I'm not considering ANY Telegames releases like official ColecoVision releases

[cimerians]

I was 15 and for me the CV came a bit late. It was great to see it and the 5200 but to me, Coleco followed what everyone was doing...heading the microcomputer route. Buying microcumputers. By 1985 I was in high school and most of us couldn't stand playing the CV much less the ancient Atari 2600 anymore. We were all looking at affordable computers to move on to and game, either Atari or Commodore. Most of my friends and people I met when I entered high school in 1985 already had Commodore 64's and some people went with Atari XL's (800XL etc). (the Apple II and later the IIGS was huge but not affordable in my neck of the woods).

 

Every month between 83-85' we would see all the cool computer games in EG (Electronic Games magazine) and wondered how we can scam our parents into buying Ultima or Beach Head. Until we discovered what everyone was doing (the insane 1980's disk copying and pirating that was going on)

 

I'm sorry but nobody will change my viewpoint on this. I lived it. I saw it. Computer gaming was king and they....Atari, Commodore and even Coleco thought they could cash in. I think the role of computer gaming had MUCH more if not a complete nail in the coffin impact than any console maker or publisher making porn games. To me, Atari, Coleco was just part of the pie.

 

Everyone contributed but people were moving on to better things and they thought they new what we wanted but Nintendo did it the right way.

 

Nintendo released the NES and then we had two great primary gaming platforms.

[retroillucid]

I would. Venture was a good game. Carnival? That was a dust gatherer in the arcades. Zaxxon had potential, but it was so poorly done it was painful.

 

I see, ... Atari fans eh?

Friends who owned a 2600 back then were saying the same

 

Each is own I guess!

 

 

Smurf Rescue? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

 

Compared to Combat? .... Yes!

Smurf game concept was never before seen back then

 

 

Anyway....

Edited September 1, 2011 by retroillucid

[retroillucid]

Computer gaming was king and they....Atari, Commodore and even Coleco thought they could cash in. I think the role of computer gaming had MUCH more if not a complete nail in the coffin impact than any console maker or publisher making porn games. To me, Atari, Coleco was just part of the pie.

 

I also think that's all about this too

Well said actually

[Retro Rogue]

Show me proof of this, seriously

I had talks with many peoples (employees) and even Mr. Ralph Baer (THE inventor of Pong)

All said production of Colecovision STOPED because the same employees were working on ADAM

 

1) Ralph is a personal friend of mine, so I can pretty much say you're a bit confused as to what he was or was not involved in with the Colecovision. Ralph was not involved in manufacturing, business decisions, or anything else at Coleco, in regards to the Colecovision he was an outside contractor for the CED player that was planned for the Colecovision.

 

2) I already gave publicly available links that clearly show Colecovision production (both systems and games) continued after the Adam launch and in fact continued after the Adam itself was cancelled. Maybe you missed it, it's several posts up with the linked word "here" that takes you to another thread where the several articles and direct links were given along with direct excerpts from the articles. The very first article in fact clearly states: January 3, 1985 - 'Coleco said it would continue to manufacture its Colecovision video game units, which company officials have previously described as ''marginally profitable".' I was a stock holder at the time as well by the way.

 

As for the other articles specifically taling about the pause itself, I paid for those and am not about to start posting paid research material up for free - especially when the free material I already gave in the other thread clearly demonstrates what you are asking - "Did the colecovision continue on after the Adam?"

 

 

 

I'm not considering ANY Telegames releases like official ColecoVision releases

 

Neither was I. There appears to be a language barrier here. I clearly was stating that Coleco sold most of it's inventory to Telegames in the second half of 1985 (i.e. sometime between July when they were announcing they were considering shutting down Colecovision operations and October when they announced the sale of most of its inventory had occurred).

Edited September 1, 2011 by wgungfu

[retroillucid]

Neither was I. There appears to be a language barrier here.

 

For sure, I'm french canadian

 

 

BTW: PM Sent

[Jess Ragan]

You don't make a very strong case. As others have mentioned, it was a wide variety of factors that led to the crash. One mentioned on Wikipedia that I hadn't considered was the lack of information available at the time. Without an internet or many game magazines to warn players of the duds on store shelves, it just became too risky to purchase games, and players stopped.

 

Does Coleco deserve to take some responsibility for the crash? Maybe. That whole ADAM business was a disaster, and it certainly contributed to the crash and burn of the home computer market a couple of years later. However, I think they were more responsible than a lot of other publishers of the time, particularly Atari, whose contemptuous attitude toward gamers led to lousy arcade conversions and hastily done adaptations of films that had no business being games. They arrogantly presumed that people would buy anything with the words "video game" stamped on the front, and were quickly proven wrong.

 

It's common for gamers to claim that the Warner era of Atari was the only one that mattered, but the truth is that the company's toxic, profit-driven mindset nearly destroyed Atari along with the entire industry in 1983. Favoring marketing over the quality of the product, dismissing the importance of game designers, setting unrealistic deadlines to cash in on the latest trends... we're seeing a lot of these corporate hijinx happen again with Activision, and as the deaths of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater and Guitar Hero have illustrated, it's every bit as corrosive in 2011 as it was nearly thirty years ago.

[65Gamerguy]

 

In my opinion Atari did much more damage than Coleco did, at least to themselves. The Atari 5200 couldn't play 2600 games

 

Neither could the Colecovision. What's your point?

 

My point is that the friends that I have didn't appreciate Atari's business nonsense. They had invested a lot of money in the systems thay owned, and then guess what Atari has a new system that won't play your old games then another. And none of them were compatible on any system, even the Atari computers. At least you could still play CV cartridges on the Coleco Adam.

 

Granted every system becomes obsolete eventually, but in my opinion Atari was just foolish and it turned a lot of people off.

[retroillucid]

Seeing ALOT of Wii, PS3, Xbox360 in bargain bins is like in the 80s to me

I suspect something will happen again... I hope it actually!

 

The same strategy is used today, Nintendo releasing 5 NintendoDS , a new Wii .... Playstation with their Move your ass thing and also Xbox with their Dis-Kinect

For me its all crap

 

Skateboard for Tony Hawks, DJ Table, Guitars, too much gadgets

 

 

The video game industry of today,... Totally sucks!